Video: Obama Birthers, Unite!
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Nutty Obama Birthers lawyer Orly Taitz and Alan Keyes, join up to discuss the craziest issue in politics in the last 20 years or so. I hope they keep it up, because the more time they spend proving that Obama is a secret Muslim not born in America, the less time they spend dealing with actual real things.
I fully concede that even on the right this is fringe-y, but its a good amount of ‘em on board. The other great thing in this video is Alan Keyes in traditional Alan Keyes mode. Which we love.
Also, kudos to CNN’s Kitty Pilgrim for not being a dummy on this issue. Perhaps she could tell Lou Dobbs, who she was subbing for.
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“join up to discuss the craziest issue in politics in the last 20 years or so.”
they were discussing Bush’s TANG memos?
(Actually, that’s not fair. The Clinton death squads were WAY crazier.)
Liberal media! Conspiracy! Africa! Obama’s aunt!
Repeat, ad nauseum…
Clinton wasn’t legitimate because Perot.
Bush wasn’t legitimate because Florida.
Obama isn’t legitimate because Short Form.
Why do I suspect all these fringe “issues” with Obama revolve around the unstated reason for their discomfort with him?
Since I don’t watch TV–ever–I’m at a disadvantage here. CNN was giving these lunatics the time of day because why?
[...] newspapers announced Obama’s birth on the same day in 1961. None of this evidence meets their warped criteria of [...]
“Hawaii’s an Islamic state”-cons
One of the guys hit the nail on the head (although it could’ve been put better) when he said that these guys hate Obama and will never accept him as president, and so are grasping at what they feel is the most plausible reason for not accepting him. (Of course to most people, it sounds insane, which is something that I don’t think these people understand.)
If Obama had been born under other circumstances (e.g. without an African father) then they would probably be focusing on imagined irregularities in the election, or something else.
The ironic thing is that McCain is the one whose status as a natural born American is a little hazy. I can’t help but think that this business with Obama’s birth certificate was started during the election as part of the Republican party’s standard operating procedure of accusing your opponent of doing what you in fact are guilty of, in order to head off potential accusations. It’s just lingered on since then.
It’s racism, plain and simple. And it’s the heart of the GOP.
CNN was giving these lunatics the time of day because why?
It’s like that Buchanan thing. They’ve finally figured out that liberals watch cable news while waiting in airport lounges and dentist offices but they don’t sit in front of it all day slathering slavishly. They want to peel off some of Fox’s cultish wingnut devotees.
Actually, its less calculated than that. They have 24 hours to fill. They can’t show porn, people getting killed, or animals being mutilated… so they have to fill the 24 hours, somehow.*
*Yes, I know it’s only really about 17 hours (6am to 11pm) but I’m trying to make a point.
You know what I find appealing about the idea [that the President might not be a natural-born citizen] ?
1) It would throw millions of liberals into a tizzy.
2) Liberals love their own bugaboo, which is that the people who believe it are racists*.
3) This reinforces their belief that the only thing that prevented Pres Obama from getting 100% of the vote was racism*.
4) I believe Pres Obama’s handlers believe that acquiescing in this request, will open the door to a bunch of other requests, and those, cumulatively, will not work for the President in 2012, and may not even work for the Party in 2010.
5) Did I mention that if Pres Obama had to step down, it would throw millions of liberals into a tizzy?
* Of course, we know that some racists might believe Pres Obama is not a naturalized citizen, because that is more socially acceptable than admitting to being a racist. But we can also presume that there are some racists, who would gladly admit that they believe the President is not a natural born citizen, just as there are racists who believe that the President is a natural born citizen.
There are, of course, people who might believe the President is or is not a natural – born citizen, who are not racists at all. As we all know, there is no demonstrable connection between believing (or not believing) that the President is a natural born citizen, and being a racist, is there?
For once, I agree with Frank. As misguided and downright crazy as the “birthers” are, it seems pretty silly to say that they are motivated by racism against Obama when one of the most visible leaders of this “movement” is Alan Keyes.
And yeah, Mrs. Pilgrim did a great job here.
I really liked how they listed Orly’s occupations as Lawyer, Dentist, Real Estate Agent.
If Barack Obama does not give me his ATM card and PIN number, I will not be able to recognize him as my legitimate Preznit.
This is awesome — I never saw the crazy dentist-lawyer-taint lady speaking on video. She’s an awesome character. Hilarious.
“It’s like that Buchanan thing.”
You’re right, but for the wrong reason. CNN & MSNBC want to paint all conservatives as unreasonable nutjobs, so they choose to highlight the most extreme fringe and label them as the “conservative mainstream”.
He could easily end this controversy by posting his original Birth Cert., as McCaine did when challenged. Why hasn’t he?
Even if he was born here, the fact that he or his mother defacto renounced his citizenship (by carrying an indonesion passport) means he is not eligible to be president, nor should anyone who has been another country. Of course, his defacto hostility to the US and whites is why the media and elite have been so enthusiastic to support him. Even more than Clinton or Bush, he will do more the end the nation-state, which is the goal of most of our elite (and no doubt most of your readers ).
I am conservative, but I never mindlessly cheerleaded for Bush, like Buchanan, I opposed Iraq, Bush’s refusal to protect our borders, Bush’s ‘no child left behind’, Bush’s ignoring the constitution.
Many liberals did too. But now that its Obama’s turn he can do no wrong. As Camile Paglia pointed out, the flippancy in which Obama ignored serious questions about his candidacy and your willingness to support that is disturbing.
No conservative has forgotten how often liberals told us “bush is stupid’ and showed his 600 board scores to prove that (by that measure most blacks who take the test are very, very stupid, since they score somewhere in 400s on average (yet still get admitted to Anapolis!) .
Why hasn’t Obama posted his boards? Or his transcripts? And if we called him stupid, it would no doubt be racism, wouldn’t it?
correction: “nor should anyone who has been another country.” should read:
nor should anyone who has a citzen been another country.
For once, I agree with Frank. As misguided and downright crazy as the “birthers” are, it seems pretty silly to say that they are motivated by racism against Obama when one of the most visible leaders of this “movement” is Alan Keyes.
Keyes may have dark skin, but he’s one of the worst “Oreos” in the history of mankind.
Yes, Farris, you are correct. CNN was forced to fire the left-wing loon Susan Roesgen because they see that strategy doesn’t work either. It’s a tough game CNN and MSNBC play in an effort to stay alive. Too far left kills them, and it’s against their very philosophical foundation to play it down the middle.
But they’re still quite comfortable with the Al Sharpton strategy; divide along racial lines and then galvanize people by their racial identities. Not sure it it’s working for them, but it is interesting this segment was deemed worthy enough to take time away from their non-stop Michael Jackson coverage.
‘You know what I find appealing about the idea [that the President might not be a natural-born citizen] ?’
Holy Christ dude; those are some rock solid allegations there, but you did miss the one about Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa conspiring to create Obama shaped crop circles.
The evidence is just too compelling to ignore.
This is a consecrated place of asylum for liberal racists, Randy, so your blatantly racist statement is cool here.
‘You’re right, but for the wrong reason. CNN & MSNBC want to paint all conservatives as unreasonable nutjobs, so they choose to highlight the most extreme fringe and label them as the “conservative mainstream’
Ummmm, Buchannan has been employed the Nixon and Reagan administrations, and has run for President as a Republican on 3 occasions.
How much more mainstream can you get?
‘This is a consecrated place of asylum for liberal racists, Randy, so your blatantly racist statement is cool here.’
Look who’s talking.
Still need your contact info. Dennis the coward.
CNN & MSNBC want to paint all conservatives as unreasonable nutjobs, so they choose to highlight the most extreme fringe and label them as the “conservative mainstream”.
Buchanan is a mainstream Republican: he’s a racist, traitor, bully, and anti-semite.
Fly here now on my dime, Jaim, or you’re the coward and a weasel. Not in six months when you’re coming anyway, elitist private school, white guilt, America-bashing and fleeing, liberal underachieving punk.
Buchanan is a mainstream Republican.
Please list a source, if you don’t mind.
Preferably one from this decade, Mike. If he’s switched back to R from his status change over ten years ago, it’s news to me. I’m sure you have better sources than me, though.
How about we spread it around that Cynthia McKinney is a mainstream Democrat because she used to be Democratic Congresswoman? She bailed from the Democrat party a lot more recently than Buchanan did.
Do you have any idea how long ago the Nixon and Reagan administrations were, jrfunky? Do you have no shame in calling someone a mainstream Republican who ran for president as an independent almost ten years ago, with no record anyone here calling him a Republican can furnish of him switching back?
Maybe you can, though.
I like Frank’s point of view: “If we act like frothing racist loons, it will upset the liberals. Which is good all around.”
Unfortunately for Frank, it’s not an act.
As we all know, there is no demonstrable connection between believing (or not believing) that the President is a natural born citizen, and being a racist, is there?
Very likely there is substantial overlap.
At least some of the usual suspects here are finally just admitting they care more about doing things they just think annoy liberals than things that actually help the country- or themselves.
Sad.
How about we spread it around that Cynthia McKinney is a mainstream Democrat because she used to be Democratic Congresswoman?
Yeah, I remember when Cynthia McKinney gave a keynote speech at her party’s national convention too.
Very likely there is substantial overlap.
Yes, as there is between liberals, and people who make misleading, unproven, undocumented assertions about conservatives.
Oops! Looks like someone leveled the playing field!
Heh.
If I were a Republican, I’d certainly to scrub the memory of Pat Buchanan’s convention keynote from my consciousness.
Can’t we help finding Obama a new father so he perhaps can be a natural born citizen and continue being president because he is such an amazing teleprompter reader? I do not think the US and the Muslim world can live without such an asset in The White House.
Seventeen years ago, when you were all of thirteen. I’m not sure how else you could’ve come up with a more irrelevant point.
Seriously, Auggie, I can’t recall even one post of yours of which the sole purpose wasn’t to make a snarky response to an opposing viewpoint, and not once do I recall on made in a polite attempt to spur an honest debate. If you had an example, I’d eat my words and apologize, but I don’t recall even one time.
If I could write Oily Titz a huge check to further her actions I would do it. They are the best recruiting tool for the Democratic party evah!
They’ve taken up their little pet cause as a psychological cushion to deal with their trauma about losing the election and the entire govt. They don’t really believe the bullshit they are spouting off; they just want something to bitch and whine about.
And I thought the wackjobs who went after Clinton were unhinged loons…they got nothing on the birthers.
What’s so fascinating about this is how MANY bogus reasons the Birthers can come up with for why Obama is supposedly not a ‘natural born US citizen’. This lunatic Taitz woman (that’s the first time I’d heard her) said in the CNN clip that in order to be a natural born citizen, both Obama’s parents would have to be US citizens. HUH? Has this madwoman genuinely never heard of birthright citizenship? Being born in the United States makes Obama a US citizen and that would be true even if both his parents were illegal aliens. I know the right would like to change that, but that’s the law of the land. And upthread, ‘me’ says that Obama as a child somehow ‘de facto’ renounced his US citizenship? You cannot ACCIDENTALLY renounce your citizenship, and you sure as all heck can’t do it as a minor!
NO amount of proof is going to convince these people. You provide all the documents they claim they want to see, signed in blood in quadruplicate, and then they’ll shift to “well, how do we know THIS guy was that baby? Maybe the real baby died and there was a substitution!” and start demanding that we dig up Obama’s mother for a DNA match.
You’ve nailed it, Joyce. I had a discussion with a craaaazy birfer online (an old classmate I never knew well) and the number of separate justifications that PROVED (not enough caps for this crowd) Obama couldn’t possibly be president was amazing.
1) Birthplace – Sure, a upper-middle class woman decided to travel to Kenya in 1961 while 7-8 months pregnant to have her child in a completely unfamiliar place. Makes perfect sense. Best piece of evidence – a radio interview with a Kenyan relative talking about the birthplace of Barack Obama (but she was talking about his father, Barack Sr)
2) Renounced citizenship – By living in Indonesia in his childhood, Barack could no longer be a citizen. Best piece of evidence – none. A complete joke.
3) SS Registration – Obama’s selective service card is a fake, and therefore he can’t be president. Best piece of evidence – some guy who may have been a federal agent thinks it’s a fake. Even if so, it doesn’t really have any impact on anything..
4) The age canard – Since Obama’s father was Kenyan and his mother was under 21, he is technically a Kenyan, not American citizen, even if he was born in the US. Best piece of evidence – None. Just a fever dream of the birfers.
5) Obama can’t be president because he’s black and this country was built by white people. Ok, I made this up, but it’s a very Buchanan argument (and it sums up the Blazing Saddles aura the birfers all give off)
When presented with all the evidence that none of his wishes could come true, the birfers response was that this was because high placed agents had faked all the documents, that there was a conspiracy in each of these separate cases to produce fake documents. It’s a pretty fascinating case of abnormal psychology, but not much of a political argument..
This is awesome — I never saw the crazy dentist-lawyer-taint lady speaking on video. She’s an awesome character. Hilarious.
No doubt. She should get her own show.
Maybe co-host with Nancy Grace.
I had to watch the video again just to see crazy eyes bonkers Orly Taitz.
Man, you couldn’t hire a better nut squad to represent the modern conservative ‘movement’.
Everyone leaves out # 6 – as do the Obamassiah believers (that he came from the exploding planet Krypton – or was it Bethlehem?).
Why not show every one the goddam original Birth Certificate? You afraid there will be evidence that the swaddling clothes are not indestructible, or that there was no Virgin Birth?
There is a reason why they are not releasing that document. It may not be because it “proves” he is not a natural born citizen, but there is something on it, they don’t want you to see.
Maybe he’s intersexed. Wouldn’t that be a trip?!
. But we can also presume that there are some racists, who would gladly admit that they believe the President is not a natural born citizen, just as there are racists who believe that the President is a natural born citizen.
There are, of course, people who might believe the President is or is not a natural – born citizen, who are not racists at all. As we all know, there is no demonstrable connection between believing (or not believing) that the President is a natural born citizen, and being a racist, is there?
Shorter Frank: There are known knowns, known unknowns, unknown knowns and then there are unknown unknowns. Which is it? I don’t know.
Man, you couldn’t hire a better nut squad to represent the modern conservative ‘movement’.
I smell a Watchmen spin-off!
Why are you so fucking nuts? I never demanded that us strangers (i.e., not immediate family) get our hands on any of the putrid Bush clan’s long form triple vault copy notarized iridium plated birth certificate. Nor do I think any of you nuts deserve to see his Social Security number or get his DNA information or his checking account number or any other information which isn’t meant to be public information.
You are not a direct family member. If all the other state and federal agencies (including before the election as background checks were carried out by the Secret Service and for access to other information) are in on a grand conspiracy to hide and fake a real birth certificate, you really don’t think they could fake a ‘long form’ original cold pressed LP first mold birth certificate too???
Why are you people so nuts?
No, on the other hand, keep it up. I can’t wait until the entirety of the GOP elected representation consists of 5 drunk guys in an Alabama trailer park. Keep it up.
correction: “nor should anyone who has been another country.” should read:
nor should anyone who has a citzen been another country.
Man, I’m glad you cleared that up for me. I was really cunfused there for a minute.
And another country.
Fly here now on my dime, Jaim, or you’re the coward and a weasel. Not in six months when you’re coming anyway, elitist private school, white guilt, America-bashing and fleeing, liberal underachieving punk.
OOOOH! BRINGIN’ THE PAIN!
SS Registration – Obama’s selective service card is a fake, and therefore he can’t be president. Best piece of evidence – some guy who may have been a federal agent thinks it’s a fake. Even if so, it doesn’t really have any impact on anything..
I don’t even know where mine is. Was I supposed to have one? Obama is a year older than me, does that mean I’m not a citizen either because I can’t produce my Selective service card?
(including before the election as background checks were carried out by the Secret Service and for access to other information)
Yes, that’s the other part that poles the birther’s tires; Secret Service, FBI, CIA, NSA, the bloody IRS. I’m sure they all did their homework before the guy was sworn in. If he didn’t pass, why wouldn’t they speak up to Congress or someone?
*pokes*
I never demanded that us strangers (i.e., not immediate family) get our hands on any of the putrid Bush clan’s long form triple vault copy notarized iridium plated birth certificate.
That’s because George Bush wasn’t born outside the coterminous US, with a parent from outside the United States; and raised in a foreign country.
And, also, because if you had asked for it, the Clerk’s Office that issued it would have released it no matter what the Bushes wanted.
And, “I don’t have to, because George Bush didn’t have to,” is not quite the answer I expected.
Birthers, birthers. How fucking dumb and gullible can you be?
Do you really honestly think that there is some 40 year, grand conspiracy to keep the TRUE SECRET identity of Obama hidden from 300 million people?
Do you really think that Obama is going to risk his entire career on something that a clerk in Hawaii can confirm (which, if you morons were paying attention, has been VERIFIED OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN by the state of Hawaii…unless you shit for brains think ‘they’re in on it too!’)
Do you really think someone who wasn’t born in the USA could get a US Passport, become a State Senator, then a US Senator, then President of the United States without the FEC or Immigration finding out?
Do you really think a two year political campaign, which involved extensive background checks and snooping and opposition research, just somehow missed this one glaring, very important fact? If this was remotely true, then why didn’t Hilary Clinton or John MCcain find out about it and use it against him?
This would have blown the race wide open and would have sunk Obama forever.
And lastly…do any of you have your original birth certificate? Fuck no you don’t, you have a copy only. The original is on file in the hall of records where you were born. Go ahead and march on down there to DEMAND to see your original and see how fast you get escorted from the building.
However I fully support and encourage the antics of the birthers 100%. I hope they keep it up as loud and as visible as possible. Show them for who they are, unhinged sore losers who cannot accept the fact that Obama won the election and Crusty McCain didn’t.
There is a reason why they are not releasing that document.
Making nutwing heads explode is a good reason. Maybe even the best possible reason, because it seems to be working so well.
But I’m open for other suggestions.
The reason the Obama admisnistration doesn’t bend over backwards to appease the demands of the birthers, is that:
A) The birthers are crazy
B) The birthers will never believe any any evidence presented to them
C) As long as marginally mainstream conservatives give the birthers a platform, it makes the whole conservative movement look deranged
D) The birthers are crazy
>There is a reason why they are not releasing that document.
Making nutwing heads explode is a good reason. Maybe even the best possible reason, because it seems to be working so well.
But I’m open for other suggestions.
You’re on the right path. Here it is:
The information he has already released is more than adequate proof of Obama’s citizenship to everyone in a position of authority. Congress has certified his election to the presidency, the SCotUS has refused to hear cases his citizenship, and its Chief Justice administered the Oath of Office.*
The lunatic fringe who are questioning it simply don’t matter. By ignoring their squawking, Obama does not empower them to harm his presidency.
But he does empower them to harm the Republican Party.
By clinging, leech-like, to the GOP’s saner elected officials in order to try to give themselves the appearance of legitimacy, the birthers tarnish the entire party.
If this magical, authoritative, canonical Birth Certificate exists, and Obama were to order it released to the world, it would have only these two negative effects for Obama:
1. He would look foolish for giving in, even on something so inconsequential, to the lunatic fringe.
2. He would throw cold water on a cauldron of right-wing stupidity that’s boiling over onto the GOP.
As Napoleon famously said: “Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake.”
Right, because you’d have to be some sort of alien if’n you is born’d in Hawaii, which suspiciously was made a state way later than was proper, unlike people born in the continentally attached state of Alaska.
It’s just the same, stupid shit over and over and over by a subset of the same retard freaks who think rod animals are flying through videotapes and who think there’s a worldwide plot to control people through contrails and who think that Bill and Hillary Clinton had a bunch of people killed in order to cover up their drug dealing operation.
There’s no argument there, none, no evidence presented that in any way counter-acts well-known and documented facts on Obama, and instead it’s all just a bunch of shit from nutbags who are convinced that the fair starting point is that Obama is a reptilian alien from the Kenyo-Xenu invasion forces and it’s up to Barack Obama to prove that in fact he is human.
And what is this bullshit about how anyone would just release George W. Bush’s original birth certificate to any retard who walked in off the
street? Are you fucking crazy?
If that were true we’d have 1 million George W. Bushes wandering around the USA with Mexican and Guatemalan accents.
If George W. Bush Jr. doesn’t give me his Social Security number, his vault copy birth certificate extra long lasting flavor form, a sample of his stem cells, and complete proof that his ancestors weren’t Nazis, then I reject him as ever having been President.
* Cue the birthers: “ZOMG!!1! The Chief Justice got a word or two wrong in administering the Oath! Obama isn’t really president!!!! [Froth at mouth.]“
‘Do you have any idea how long ago the Nixon and Reagan administrations were, jrfunky’
Do you have any idea how long ago the moon landing was Den-Den?
By your logic, apparently that couldn’t have happened or have any relevance either, seeing as it was so long ago.
If you want to consider Buchannan independent, be my guest, but his continued support of all things Republican over the course of his entire public life might make others see him in a different light.
‘Why not show every one the goddam original Birth Certificate?’
So this huge conspiracy has everyone BUT the official election committee up in arms huh?
Maybe you guys should just let it go; dude was actually elected (I’m looking at you Katherine Harris), WHAT’S THE EFFING PROBLEM?
What El Cid said.
I like how the people who are egging these freaks on are the same ones who thought it was soooooo terrible for anyone to ask the potential VP for information about her …unusual pregnancy.
He was against the Iraq War from the start. He was against Bush on a whole host of things, jrfunky. The last time he ran for office, he ran against a Republican, as an Independent, not as a Republican. If he would’ve switched back to Republican, you would know about it. He hasn’t. Your attempt to stereotype Republicans using this as an example is a dishonest fabrication and a fail.
And a quite pathetic one at that. Like I said, MSNBC has a string of far left liberals as hosts in the evening. Rabid far-left liberals. They are all hopelessly in love with Obama and they all love Sonia Sotomayor; no newsflash there. So they bring on the resident gadfly who also happens to be under contract to answer Maddow’s obviously prepared questions, and Buchanan says something he’s said many times before, and for some reason, you guys act surprised. I’m inclined to say I really don’t get it, but I do. It’s just another opportunity for lib blogs to exploit their favorite meme and to act like an injustice has just been handed down on minorities that rocked the world.
If not for the reality that this is just one blog thread and the whole feigned indignation bit has already run its course and this will be old news by tomorrow if it’s not already, I’d say I was truly embarrassed for some of you guys.
MSNBC has a string of far left liberals as hosts in the evening.
AFAIK, the evening hosts are Maddow and Olbermann, hardly “far left,” since they represent mainstream American values. Who are the far left hosts that you are referring to?
He was against the Iraq War from the start.
As were the bulk of paleoconservatives. Much more specific and correct to avoid party and call Buchanan a conservative and a nativist. He falls into the overlap of those two labels. Buchanan probably didn’t approve of the neocon takeover of the Republican party, and to my knowledge they’re to his left on a few issues.
Parthy, you are a true gentleman and a scholar. I will agree with that assessment, but I won’t agree that he’s any kind of stereotype for Republicans or conservatives; not that you said he was.
—–
I was referring to those two, along with the smarmy Shuster and Big Ed. Matthews isn’t far left. I kinda like Maddow in a way I can’t put my finger on, but she’s bright and does her homework, but I do consider her further left than Obama, and people are starting to realize that Obama may be too far left to be considered mainstream. With Olby…..please, just stop right there with the mainstream descriptive. Mainstream people think he’s nuts, and he is. Left of center people think he’s nuts. Only pretty far lefties think he’s mainstream.
Then it’s a weird definition of “mainstream” when anywhere from a plurality to a majority are more liberal and left than Barack Obama.
Unless “mainstream” is set in place by a smaller number of elite opinionmakers for no other reason than that’s just how they think things are done.
… and complete proof that his ancestors weren’t Nazis …
Interestingly, the testimony by Prescott Bush that he was unaware that the Company he worked for was dealing with a company that dealt with the Nazi government, does exist.
Yet, the accusation that the Bushes “did business with the Nazis” persists.
And what I meant about the Birth Certificate was that some “concerned citizen” (read ‘Democrat voter’) would have sneaked that Birth Certificate to a friendly reporter so fast, it would have been on “Daily Kos”, or “Countdown” in 24 hours.
Clearly you don’t watch their shows.
Maddow criticizes Obama. Olbermann criticizes Obama.
Anything else you want to be wrong about?
And yet no one involved in this 48-year-long conspiracy involving multiple state and national agencies has sneaked or leaked! Maybe no Repub voters (“unconcerned citizens”) were involved. Or maybe the thousands of people involved figured they had nothing to gain from sneaking and leaking. Or maybe there is no conspiracy. Occam’s Razor and all that.
Personally, I have full faith in the veracity of this birth certificate.
“They are all hopelessly in love with Obama.”
I’m not familiar with Maddow, but Olbermann has put Obama on his “Worst Persons in the World” list on two separate occassions. Yeah, Keith is “hoplessly in love with Obama.”
“…the testimony by Prescott Bush…does exist.”
Where?
Prescott Bush that he was unaware
Of course he was unaware.
“He was against the Iraq War from the start.”
As were the bulk of paleoconservatives.
You pulled that one straight out of your ass.
So I’ve heard. But because the Smithsonian Institution hasn’t delivered me the original Edison recording triple vault copy of this testimony, I’ll just keep asking forever why the Bushes just won’t release this.
The testimony doesn’t exist unless the Secretary General of the UN delivers a gilded-page, Pope-signed copy of the transcript by helicopter to my house.
Frank DiSalle: And what I meant about the Birth Certificate was that some “concerned citizen” (read ‘Democrat voter’) would have sneaked that Birth Certificate to a friendly reporter so fast, it would have been on “Daily Kos”, or “Countdown” in 24 hours.
Or some concerned Democrat in a Hawaii civil servant job to forge Obama’s original birth certificate and sneak it to a reporter. MUWHAHAHAAHA!
You know what I find appealing about the idea [that the President might not be a natural-born citizen] ?
So what you’re saying is that you like this because it pisses liberals off? You know what would piss me off? If you got yourself arrested for tax evasion. That would REALLY infuriate me.
Why not show every one the goddam original Birth Certificate?
Same reason why you won’t give me proof of service?
But Obama DID show his birth certificate, and that wasn’t good enough for the nutjobs.
That’s because George Bush wasn’t born outside the coterminous US, with a parent from outside the United States; and raised in a foreign country.
True, but McCain WAS. Why aren’t you asking about HIS birth certificate?
And even if this evidence does exist, just because it was Prescott’s Bush’s testimony doesn’t automatically mean it was his TRUTHFUL testimony.
Re: http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/07/17/video-obama-birthers-unite/#comment-164107
Keyes hates Obama with a passion. Obama is the antithesis of everything that Keyes stands for. Obama is handsome, articulate, sane, intelligent, sucessful…I could go on and on. Hopefully you get my point. THAT’S why Keyes is out there against Obama. He just happens to be black and that helps the birthers’ cause. They NEED the “token negro” out front so that folks won’t cry “racist!”. Hell Keyes is a self loathing racist, homophobe (even with a gay daughter) and xenophobe.
Isn’t it funny how Republicans, who tried electing foreign born Panamanian John McCain and his secessionist loving Vice Presidential Candidate Sarah Palin, suddenly have problems with an American born in Hawaii?
And for the record the Grandfather of President Bush worked with the Nazis.
“George Bush’s grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.
His business dealings, which continued until his company’s assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.
The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator’s action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.”
Still need your contact info. Dennis.
Please knock off the dick swinging. Both of you.
Anyways. Define far left. Please. It gets thrown around way too often. Barack Obama is called far left. Olbermann is called far left. And I am called far left. And yet, to the best of my ability to see, all of those people comfortably fit in the center-left of American political ideology. Generalizing, we all believe that the government is not a passive, shrinking third party but can be an active participant in the betterment of society. This is a mainstream view of things in America, and depending on the point in history – the majority view in the country. It’s not a “far” anything position.
Who would I characterize as “far left”? Someone like Rep. Kucinich or perhaps the Code Pink crowd, folks who think that government solutions are almost always superior to private ones, or who almost always believe that military action is not ever an appropriate response.
So let’s be clear. Is MSNBC’s lineup of Olbermann, Maddow, and Schultz on the left? Yes. Is it on the far left? No. Not even close.
Not to mention the 3 hr morning block of conservative politics hosted by former Republican congressman Joe Scarborough.
And Chris Matthews? Chris Matthews is in love with power and has a pliable ideology around that worship. 5 years ago Matthews was a serial humper of George W. Bush’s leg. He’s the one who raved about what a macho man Bush was in his flightsuit. Matthews was also a serious fanboy for McCain. Right now he’s a fanboy for Obama. But let’s not even remotely pretend that Chris Matthews isn’t a Washington sycophant and not a card carrying member of the vast left wing media.
“Everybody sort of likes the president [Bush], except for the real whack-jobs, maybe on the left — I mean — like him personally.” — Chris Matthews
Zython, in all these years , you have learned nothing:
If you got yourself arrested for tax evasion. That would REALLY infuriate me.
I will NEVER be arrested for tax evasion. If I told you who to report me to, and what to say, they still wouldn’t take the report. But I won’t tell you why…
Same reason why you won’t give me proof of service?
If you make me President, I’ll get you a certified copy from St Louis, Missouri.
True, but McCain WAS. Why aren’t you asking about HIS birth certificate?
Because his father was a naval officer, he and McCain’s Mom were born in the US, and the Panama Canal isn’t Africa.
You never learn, Zython: Ask hard questions !!
I will NEVER be arrested for tax evasion.
Then choose your own crime to be arrested for. I’m not picky.
But I won’t tell you why…
I’m pretty sure bribery is also illegal.
If you make me President, I’ll get you a certified copy from St Louis, Missouri.
Why? What are you trying to hide?
Because his father was a naval officer
I fail to see the relevance of this.
he and McCain’s Mom were born in the US,
So was Obama’s mother.
and the Panama Canal isn’t Africa.
No, but neither of them are the U.S.
Ask hard questions !!
When I do that, you throw a temper tantrum.
Dennis the Bigot: “Fly here now on my dime, Jaim, or you’re the coward and a weasel. Not in six months when you’re coming anyway, elitist private school, white guilt, America-bashing and fleeing, liberal underachieving punk.”
Goddamnit!
And here I said Amused Observer would be the first here to make threats of violence.
Of course, when I said that, you said it was projection.
Who was projecting, Dennis?
(Or should that be ‘whom’?)
Frank: “I will NEVER be arrested for tax evasion. If I told you who to report me to, and what to say, they still wouldn’t take the report. But I won’t tell you why…”
Because you are in a mental home and are not legally responsible for your actions.
Frank DiSalle: “Interestingly, the testimony by Prescott Bush that he was unaware that the Company he worked for was dealing with a company that dealt with the Nazi government, does exist.
Yet, the accusation that the Bushes ‘did business with the Nazis’ persists.”
That’s cause he did do business with the Nazis. Even if you believe he wasn’t aware that he was doing business with the Nazis (Ha!) it is still a fact that Prescott Bush did business with the Nazis.
Strowbridge: I have had enough of your shit. Go pretend you’re smarter than another person. You’re as annoying as “News Reference”, with less courtesy.
Zython, just shove off. Go fisk someone who cares. I no longer choose to play with some one as amateurish as you. You are “News Reference” without citations. What you lack in style , you also lack in substance.
“Zython, just shove off.”
Wow, such a thorough and effective rebuttal of Zython’s “fisking” of you, Frank!
Daniel, he got the exact amount of effort he put into his response . Which is why I am fed up with him.
I like how Frank implies that Prescott Bush (supposedly) testifying about how he didn’t know about his company’s WWII-era dealings with the Nazis automatically means that his testimony was truthful (“Yet, the accusation that the Bushes ‘did business with the Nazis’ persists”). I’m sure he’d apply the same illogical “testimony-is-always synonymous-with-truthful-testimony” attitude to Prescott Bush if he was a Democrat (rolls eyes).
I said the testimony exists. It is also known that almost immediately upon “discovery” (if he didn’t know), or “getting caught” (if he did), he severed the connection.
When someone comes forward from the State of Hawaii, and says, “We have viewed and inspected Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate, and there are no irregularities,” I will believe them.
As for anyone else, that’s up to them.
Thanks for (implicitly) acknowledging that Prescott Bush’s testimony about not knowing about the Nazi connection might not have been truthful with the “getting caught” inclusion in your last post.
Oliver, those are all interesting and valid points you bring up, as well as interesting questions. I’d be glad to answer, but first I’d like to as why you easily throw out the words ‘wingnuts’ to nearly every conservative who posts here, among other imaginative descriptives meant as somewhat demeaning terms that our views are well out of the mainstream and to be dismissed. You’ve called nearly everyone here racists in some shape or form, often directly, but assuredly you have indirectly. And you’ve allowed your most prolific posters here to constantly throw out the ‘racist’ word, and other more vulgar and inflammatory slurs that call us racists, without ever telling them to cool it unless they have proof by listing examples and why they say it. Many times you side with them. Most times your posts on racism lead commenters to assume you mean nearly all conservatives are on the side of the racists you have depicted in your commentary of the blog post, so that if a conservative disagrees with certain parts of your commentary, or anyone from the liberal POV’s commentary, that conservative is called a racist. And lastly, it’s folks on the left here who routinely throw out racist and highly bigoted terms that never draw rebuke from you or any of the more polite liberal posters, never mind the fact that the ones who use these racist and bigoted terms are invariably the ones who call conservatives racist by far the most on here.
I enjoy reading liberal blogs when the topic is racism, and I’ve seen and participated in quite a few of them, this one by Susie Madrak at C&L I particular enjoyed, and I wrote to her letting her know that. Unfortunately here, comments very quickly devolve to taunts of racism for not agreeing with the heightened levels of indignation and increasingly vulgar terms not just against the perpetrators of racism in the blog story, but how soon it becomes the stereotype for all conservatives and claims of the instance being proof of ‘the Southern Strategy’ nonsense. It’s unfortunate because there are a lot of birght people here who have a lot to contribute to an honest and healthy dialogue, but I get the idea from the way the blog posts are set up to begin with, that a healthy and constructive dialogue is not the objective.
But yeah. I will throw out ‘far left’ descriptive often, and the people I describe that way probably don’t deserve it if I was being totally objective. But usually the posters here who I’m directing my response to are the same ones who use the same types of terms to people on the right who don’t deserve those descriptive either, to which few speak out to dispute since they are just expected here. And those folks aren’t just the usual News References, jaims and CS Strowbridges either.
And back to far-left as it pertains to Olby and Maddow. Maddow’s postion at MSNBC I think is deserved, but I think a lot of went in to that decision to give her the slot came from pressure applied through KO from the far-left blogs, KOS, FDL, C&L and a few others. I think you know KO blogs at KOS, and I’ve posted a couple of his comments there from some of the people who disagree with his constant railing on Fox and and O’Reilly. KO calls them ‘trolls’ and warns people that if they don’t accept his sometimes hysterical railings that he has to do for ratings, then the alternative is Rick Santelli in his chair. How is that if not far-left type thinking? He runs his show from material that comes directly from KOS and Think Progress and MEdia Matters, and C&L, and then the next morning those sites highlight Keith’s segment. My point in mentioning the far-left lineup, ok, the center-left line-up, is that everyone one of them is a supporter of Obama, and every one of them is a supporter of Sotomayor. So they bring on Buchanan, who the know is not a supporter, who has strong views of why he’s against affirmative action and the appointment of a minority who he believes is not close to being the most qualified SC justice, and it’s no mystery that there is bound to be something for liberal blogs to pick out of a ten minute segment for the red meat necessary for all the liberal blogs who supported hiring Maddow in the first place, to put up on their blogs to be disgusted about. And he didn’t say anything he hasn’t said multiple times in the past before. So bottom line, all the MSNBC hosts in the evening are left, or center left, or whatever degree of left you want to call them, few have people on from the right, and then the rare occasion someone from the right comes on in the evening at MSNBC, it’s a guy on contract with them who everyone knows will make one or two controversial statements. I’m just saying, is anyone really surprised by this?
Frank DiSalle: “Strowbridge: I have had enough of your shit. Go pretend you’re smarter than another person. You’re as annoying as ‘News Reference’, with less courtesy.
Zython, just shove off.”
Ahh, Frank, always fun to watch your hypocrisy in action.
I noticed that you can’t debate my points, on the other hand. You don’t even bother trying.
Prescott Bush was convicted of doing business with the Nazis. End of story. It is not an accusation to say so. It is a statement of fact.
By the way, doing business with the Nazis should have ended to political career of him and his entire family. George H.W. Bush, who I liked, should have never been in politics because of that. You can say, ‘Sins of the father, blah, blah, blah.’ all you want, but his dad did business with the Nazis.
NAZIS!
“When someone comes forward from the State of Hawaii, and says, ‘We have viewed and inspected Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate, and there are no irregularities,’ I will believe them.”
Something like this has already happened. People have seen the original birth certificate. The Hawaiian state agency in charge has certified it. Every single piece of evidence presented, and there’s a ahitload of it, has shown Obama was born in Hawaii.
There’s as much controversy over there as there is over evolution and global warming.
Yet there are still idiots, like you, who think Obama might not have been born in the United States.
And every time you talk about it, the people on the left, and more importantly, the people in the middle laugh at you. And the GOP shrinks further.
My own opinion is that he probably thought of the Nazis as some wacko political party. According to the Congressional Testimony I read, he claimed not to know that a Banking Company he was on the board of was doing business with Germany, and as of a certain date, prior to Dec 7, 1941 Germany had been added to some “Belligerent’s List” and Americans were not to do business with them.
It is, therefore, plausible, that he did not know he was forbidden to Chair the Board of the Company while they did business with Germany.
I am far left. Keith Olbermann is not left.
He is a liberal, or at least is very, very strongly anti-Republican and anti-modern-conservative. He is loud, often partisan, and even arrogant.
But the degree of volume does not equal the extremity of your views.
Believe it or not, you can be a centrist ideologue, or a moderate liberal extremist. There have been coups d’etat and political violence carried out in the world by those devoted to the relative center of their country’s political spectrum.
It’s possible in my view that Maddow might be considered left even by leftists, but then for the last several decades we’ve seen all sorts of formerly historically liberal ideas reconfigured as “the left”.
Remember when it was “the left” (I mean actual leftists, you know, socialists) and those crazy ultra-fringe Big Labor liberals like Dick Durbin who opposed the idiot, corporate McScrooge fantasy deregulation of the financial system pushed by the ‘liberals’ of Clinton’s Democratic Party along with the ultra-right corporatist whore Phil Gramm?
How’d that turn out? Anyone feel like lecturing the moonbats on that now?
I do not believe in this so-called “state” of “Hawaii”.
Until the top 20 scientists from the NOAA and NASA meet me at my next high school reunion carrying acid-free Gutenberg printed signed letters testifying that there really are some magic “islands” just sitting out there in the middle of the giant “Pacific Ocean” which has some freakish imaginary unicorn mix of “native” descendants and “Asian” migrants and transplants from the “mainland”, then I will refuse to accept these claims that this “Hawaii” exists.
Because you are in a mental home and are not legally responsible for your actions.
That’s a debating point?
You and Zython are two pebbles in the same shoe.
Why should I remove only one, or move one to another shoe?
You may have come here, Strowbridge, to safely insult people who should but can’t, like Buzz Aldren, punch you in the nose; I did not come here to be insulted.
Lunacy. By that logic, every one of Joseph Kennedy’s sons should have been disqualified from holding political office too.
Frank, Happy Birthday sir. May you enjoy 63 more revolutions around the sun.
I thought the very same thing as you did on the Buzz Aldrin video.
quote of the year:
“i’ll tell you, in all my years in law enforcement, a black man always needed more identification then anyone else. i never thought it would extend to the POTUS!“
and anyone who hasn’t already read “a birther platonic dialogue” is in for a treat.
Thank you, Dennis. I was hoping for 30 more, but medicine is full of surprises. Maybe I’ll get 63.
Screwed up the blockquotes there.
I’d like to as why you easily throw out the words ‘wingnuts’ to nearly every conservative who posts here, among other imaginative descriptives meant as somewhat demeaning terms that our views are well out of the mainstream and to be dismissed
Because I think they are wingnutty ideas. I think the concept that we solve problems via tax cuts and bombing people to be absurd. I find the central arguments of conservatism to have no application to the real world circa 2009. I feel the same, I should note, about the real far left. I think Dennis Kucinich’s “Department Of Peace” still rates as one of the most absurd notions I’ve heard from a pol in a while. I think many liberals are living in la-la-land when they oppose the death penalty. But the difference is I don’t think that people on the left get a kick out of fucking up the country the way I think leading Republicans did. That’s not a posture, that’s how I honestly feel.
You’ve called nearly everyone here racists in some shape or form, often directly, but assuredly you have indirectly.
This simply isn’t true. I get accused of it all the time, and I don’t know if its because I’m blunt about it or because I’m black but people – usually cons – assume I write about race constantly. I write about it when it comes up. I write about it when – too often – conservatives use it in substitute of an argument (and I’m sorry, but they do. The Republican party and the conservative movement has a real and serious issue with racism and that’s a big reason why they have no serious political strength with any non-white voters, even when they win elections). I do tell people to cool it, all the time, and I’ve told them so in email and publicly. To be frank I’ve probably done this with more liberal posters than conservatives. The people who are real dicks get banned, something I’ve never done with someone like yourself because while you’re totally wrong about everything you usually do so in a way that is at least tolerable.
How is that if not far-left type thinking?
That’s media business. It’s not “far left”, left, right, or anything else.
But I give you kudos for at least conceding that the idea that MSNBC’s lineup is “far left” is just screwy.
Also, on the far left tip people use that to attack orgs like Center for American Progress and yes, Media Matters. It doesn’t have any basis in reality. Media Matters is on the left, sure, but you’d think we had Karl Marx on every desk.
It’s only on every other desk.*
* I’m kidding. I shouldn’t have to note that but people are so dumb…
Here’s one thing, Oliver — whatever its political reality, there’s nothing, absolutely nothing either harmful or unwise, policy-wise, about opposition to the death penalty.
It’s not a key issue with me, though maybe it should be. I’m not a pacifist, but over the years most of the pacifists I’ve read have made far better policy recommendations that the idiot war fetishists we call the mainstream.
Let’s say that in 5 or 10 or 20 years opinion changed in the nation and the majority seemed okay with or supportive of abolishing the death penalty.
Would you still consider it some far out moonbat issue out in Kucinich freak land?
No, because your critique of the position appears to be based upon current apparent political realities, I think, and not its fundamental policy ramifications.
And if a ban on the death penalty happened, the country would actually be better off, if for no other reason than the practical realities so often critiqued of the death penalty. Furthermore, it’s not among the most gigantic changes nations have gone through — all sorts of nations have banned the death penalty. Except for death penalty enthusiasts’ feelings, it’s actually a pretty minor change statistics wise.
Whereas I wouldn’t give a shit what minorities or majorities were in favor of Phil Gramm’s leadership in deregulating and unregulating the entire financial system, nor how politically mainstream it was — the policy was bad and harmful.
Actually I think the anti-death penalty side is more on the upswing, look at the states that have ruled it out, and even in some where its the law it isn’t exorcised much (MD,CA). I don’t think its a far out position to be against it.
And my support of it is more old testament than any sort of actual crime reduction belief. I don’t think it cuts down on crime. I just think that some crimes are so heinous the only rational penalty is death. Now of course, I would also extend the death penalty to crimes like rape and especially child rape, but as I said, I’m old testament that way.
Me: “Because you are in a mental home and are not legally responsible for your actions.”
Frank DiSalle: “That’s a debating point?”
Two points…
1.) Are you saying, ‘I’m right and I’m never going to tell you why.’ is a brilliant argument? I was using ‘Argumentum Ad Absurdum’ to make a point. If you refuse to why something is true, we get to come up with possible reasons.
2.) You ignored my points about Prescott Bush and the Nazis he did business with.
“I did not come here to be insulted.”
If you don’t want to be insulted, don’t say stupid things.
More importantly, don’t insult people. I have read your posts for a long, long time, and you have never been the model of the polite debater. You have always been aggressive and quick with the insults.
You are just upset because we refuse to be polite in the face of your actions.
Me: “By the way, doing business with the Nazis should have ended to political career of him and his entire family. George H.W. Bush, who I liked, should have never been in politics because of that. You can say, ‘Sins of the father, blah, blah, blah.’ all you want, but his dad did business with the Nazis.”
Dennis the Bigot: “Lunacy. By that logic, every one of Joseph Kennedy’s sons should have been disqualified from holding political office too.”
Joseph Kennedy did business with the Nazis?
You need to crack open a history book. Or at least cut back on the crack.
Joseph Kennedy thought Britain had no chance of defeating the Nazis, and the United States shouldn’t waste the resources needed to help Britain defend itself.
That’s worlds apart from doing business, and therefore actively helping the Nazis.
That’s fine — a lot of people from many ideological backgrounds have supported the death penalty. Quite a few leftist movements and revolutionaries and governments have applied it. Its too bad that so many 1970s coup and junta leaders throughout Central and South America escaped it.
But there’s nothing in your comments which suggests that somehow this “old testament” approach is more natural, policy-wise, and reasonable than the “moonbat” Kucinich opposition to the death penalty.
So, okay, given that you’ve just stated that your position on the death penalty stems from an ideological and moralizing basis, why are the opponents the moonbats and not you?
By this definition, wouldn’t you be the ideologically committed person “living in la-la land” as opposed to the sober, boring rationalists of the “far left” who are fixated upon “actual crime reduction belief”?
It’s up to you, but I don’t think it would be an insult to either your opinions or policy preferences to do a little more examination of that sort of autonomic response against the “far left”.
Don’t worry about it too much, though, because I’ve gotten pretty accustomed over the past couple of decades of attempting to wrestle with a topic and coming to my own reasonable conclusions only to then hear from someone that no, I’m actually crazy, not because my policy’s all wrong, but because there’s apparently some ‘mainstream’ or ‘normal’ position which I should hold instead, no matter how less reasonable it may be.
Dennis the Bigot: “When a right wing news anchor of a major broadcasting network (hypothtecially speaking of course as there has never been one nor will there ever be one)…”
Fucking hell. I would ask if you were serious about this, but I pretty sure I don’t want to know the answer to that.
Since you deem this a statement of fact and not just a mere accusation, could you please provide a source documenting that Prescott Bush was convicted of doing business with the Nazis?
What was his specific sentence or punishment?
What sort of felony went on his record?
I’d just like to know.
Although so-called “reality” may indicate that Prescott Bush was never convicted of anything relating to the Thyssen dealings, since I once heard on a late night AM radio show that Prescott Bush was secretly convicted in the U.S.-Reptilian High Guard court in the Moons of Saturn District Court but had his sentence commuted so he could serve in the Senate as a Reptilian-backed politician, I demand to be given a formal, long-form, organic cotton denial of this by the U.S. Congress and also Pat Boone.
Have a ton of yardwork that needs my attention and I hate to link to Wikipedia, but the logic you applied to Prescott Bush disqualifying his sons from office would also then surely apply to Joe Kennedy, Sr. I can get back to this later and list the stocks Joe, Sr. held in Nazi companies and his anti-Semitic sympathies, but here’s this for now. Your statement that GHWB and GWB should have been disqualified is complete lunacy, and you can’t back that up with anything concrete other than conspiracy theory crap on the same order as the Obama birthers and the 9/11 and Trig truther.
—-
Joseph P. Kennedy
Anti-Semitism
Kennedy was (for a while) a close friend with the leading Jewish lawyer Felix Frankfurter, who helped Kennedy get his sons into the London School of Economics, where they worked with Harold Laski, a leading Jewish intellectual and prominent Socialist.[14] While holding positive attitudes towards individual Jews, <b?Kennedy's views of the Jews as a people were, by his own admission, overwhelmingly negative.
According to Harvey Klemmer, who served as one of Kennedy’s embassy aides, Kennedy habitually referred to Jews as “kikes or sheenies.” Kennedy allegedly told Klemmer that “[some] individual Jews are all right, Harvey, but as a race they stink. They spoil everything they touch.”[11] When Klemmer returned from a trip to Germany and reported the pattern of vandalism and assault on Jews by Nazis, Kennedy responded “well, they brought it on themselves.”[15]
On June 13, 1938, Kennedy met with Herbert von Dirksen, the German ambassador in London, who claimed in Berlin that Kennedy had told him that “it was not so much the fact that we want to get rid of the Jews that was so harmful to us, but rather the loud clamor with which we accompanied this purpose. [Kennedy] himself fully understood our Jewish policy.”[16] Kennedy’s main concern with such violent acts against German Jews as Kristallnacht was that they generated bad publicity in the West for the Nazi regime, a concern he communicated in a letter to Charles Lindbergh.[17]
Kennedy had a close friendship with Nancy Astor; the correspondence between them is reportedly replete with anti-Semitic tropes.[18] As Edward Renehan notes:
As fiercely anti-Communist as they were anti-Semitic, Kennedy and Astor looked upon Adolf Hitler as a welcome solution to both of these “world problems” (Nancy’s phrase)…. Kennedy replied that he expected the “Jew media” in the United States to become a problem, that “Jewish pundits in New York and Los Angeles” were already making noises contrived to “set a match to the fuse of the world.”[19]
By August 1940, Kennedy worried that a third term for Roosevelt meant war; as Leamer reports, “Joe believed that Roosevelt, Churchill, the Jews and their allies would manipulate America into approaching Armageddon.”[20] Nevertheless, Kennedy supported Roosevelt’s third term in return for Roosevelt’s support of Joseph Kennedy Jr. for Governor of Massachusetts in 1942. [21] Even during the height of the conflict, however, Kennedy remained “more wary of” prominent American Jews such as Felix Frankfurter than he was of Hitler.[22]
Kennedy told reporter Joe Dinneen:
It is true that I have a low opinion of some Jews in public office and in private life. That does not mean that I… believe they should be wiped off the face of the earth… Jews who take an unfair advantage of the fact that theirs is a persecuted race do not help much… Publicizing unjust attacks upon the Jews may help to cure the injustice, but continually publicizing the whole problem only serves to keep it alive in the public mind.
——-
You are just wrong, Strowbridge. You are wrong about Prescott Bush and you are wrong to claim his transgressions, whatever you claim they were, were so more far more disqulifying to his sons than what those of Joe Kennedy Sr.’s were.
Dennis the Bigot: “Since you deem this a statement of fact and not just a mere accusation, could you please provide a source documenting that Prescott Bush was convicted of doing business with the Nazis?”
The bank Prescott Bush was a director of was convicted of doing business with the Nazis and shut down.
From Fox News…
foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html
“Union Banking was seized by the government in October 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act (search).
No charges were brought against Union Banking’s American directors.”
Amazing. The bank worked with Nazis, but magically none of the directors had anything to do with it.
Now, I would love to hear you argue that Prescott Bush wasn’t doing business with the Nazis, but only the company he helped run did. That would be fun to watch you twist yourself into pretzels doing that.
That would be like saying, ‘The word ‘coon’ is racist, but if you think someone is racist just cause they call black people ‘coons’ you are suffering from White Guilt.’
And that would be stupid.
Well, truther Strowbridge, I guess that’s nothing more than a long-winded response for essentially saying,
“No, Dennis, you have bested me once again. It is not a statement of fact to claim that Prescott Bush was convicted of doing business with the Nazi’s. It was, afterall, just an accusation on my part to say so.
Appears it’s you who needs to stick his nose in a history book, Strowbridge. You might want to look in a dictionary and look up the word ‘convicted’ also.
And just as an FYI, you might want to look up, ‘Joseph P’ Kennedy’ and ‘Anti-Semitism’, along with ‘Nazi stock holdings’ while you’re doing your history search. Then get back to me on just why you think Prescott Bush’s sons should have been disqualified for his actions, but not Joe Kennedy, Sr.’s.
No one expects you as a foreigner to be an expert on American history, and your shortcomings can be easily forgiven, but that doesn’t excuse your vulgarity and know-it-all cockiness here. It only makes it somewhat fun to shoot you down.
I still haven’t been presented with proper documents proving that Prescott Bush wasn’t convicted, so I’m afraid I’m going to have to keep assuming and stating that he was until the Department of Homeland Security gives me the holograph-embedded plasti-paper containing the records of all convictions of all types ever in the U.S.
I think Strowbridge is working making that determination one way or the other, El Cidster.
Frank DiSalle: When someone comes forward from the State of Hawaii, and says, “We have viewed and inspected Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate, and there are no irregularities,” I will believe them.
Oh good.
That “Birther Platonic Dialogue” neatly summed up the issue here. Obama DID release his birth certificate (something that he really didn’t have to do), and it wasn’t good enough for them. There’s no reason to think that any other step he could take would satisfy them either, since these people aren’t operating in the realm of evidence-based reality. Continuing to try and satisfy these people only legitimizes them and continues the distraction.
‘If he would’ve switched back to Republican, you would know about it’
Again, by your logic, if Obama was born OUTSIDE of the US, then presumably people other than Alan Keyes would know about it.
‘… and complete proof that his ancestors weren’t Nazis …
Interestingly, the testimony by Prescott Bush that he was unaware that the Company he worked for was dealing with a company that dealt with the Nazi government, does exist.’
EVERYONE that did business with Hitler’s Germany claims to have no idea that they were part of the Third Reich.
Prescott Bush has no more credibility than those Germans in uniform who claimed they were simply following orders, or knew nothing about the diabolical plans they took part in; it’s bullshit.
‘No one expects you as a foreigner to be an expert on American history, and your shortcomings can be easily forgiven, but that doesn’t excuse your vulgarity and know-it-all cockiness here. It only makes it somewhat fun to shoot you down.’
Then why, as an American, do you keep getting this wrong?
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics
That does it for me , Limulus.
If it is true that Obama’s handlers are deliberately letting this fester to make the Republicans look foolish , then the issue will disappear in the summer of 2010.
Just like “millions of homeless” appear when there is a Republican President, and disappear when a Democrat is elected.
In the end , Strowbridge, Prescott Bush was convicted of nothing. The Bank and its assets were seized, but were they returned ? You don’t even know, do you? { For your information, I investigated this years ago. But you think you’re so smart, that whenever you learn something, you think that you’re the first one learning it. }
Does that, therefore, qualify as a “stupid thing”?
Because you said , “If you don’t want to be insulted, don’t say stupid things.”
[I didn't know that was a rule, but if you say so...]
But you didn’t suggest anyone else belonged in a mental home to make your point.
And don’t even tell me that because commenter A lashes out in thread 1, that you get to insult me on subject 6.
I give as good as I get, you’re damn skippy, but that still doesn’t mean I come here to be insulted.
You are constantly cursing and swearing at people and calling them “fucking retards”. Is that why you’re here? No? Then why are you here ?
I don’t remember hearing this claimed during the Bush Jr. era. I think there was perceived to be an increase in visibly obvious homelessness (i.e., Bushvilles), but I don’t remember any really prominent commentators suggesting an increase in such huge numbers.
Still, the NSA has not personally contacted me to deliver the Blu-Ray extended edition of proof that Prescott Bush was never convicted of anything, so I’m afraid I’m going to have to keep assuming that he was.
THIS is where I got the post of a conversation between a birther and the owner of the blog. I am only presenting HALF of the conversation, but take heed:
Frank writes: “I investigated this years ago.”
Still waiting to hear which accredited university you teach history at. Because when a clown like you tells us you “investigated” something, you might as well say “HAI GUYZ LISTEN TO ME I IZ SMART!”
El Cid: You can only use a joke effectively so many times. So let’s sh*tcan the authenticity gag, OK?
And, the “homelessness thing” doesn’t happen when the Republican is outgoing; it happens when they are incoming. The National Review and the Wall Street Journal OnLine have been joking about it since 1984. I don’t blame you for being unfamiliar with it. There was a homeless “spokesperson” named Mitch Snyder who brought it up every time a Republican was elected, but conveniently failed to mention it when a Democrat was elected. He also said huge numbers of people were homeless, numbers that would have been glaringly obvious in the streets, had they existed.
Dennis the Bigot: “Appears it’s you who needs to stick his nose in a history book, Strowbridge. You might want to look in a dictionary and look up the word ‘convicted’ also.”
They went after the bank, shut it down, yet no individual was charged. You could have an argument that Frank was right had others been convicted and Prescott Bush had not. Remember, Frank said it was merely an accusation that Prescott Bush had business ties with the Nazis.
Using the term ‘conviction’ was overstating things. He was not convicted, the bank he was a director of was convicted.
“Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics
Frank DiSalle: “That does it for me , Limulus.
If it is true that Obama’s handlers are deliberately letting this fester to make the Republicans look foolish…”
You are such a fucking piece of shit, Frank. Birthers demand greater and greater evidence from Obama, and you still blame Obama for, ‘letting this fester’.
If you aren’t in a mental institute, you should be.
“I give as good as I get, you’re damn skippy, but that still doesn’t mean I come here to be insulted.”
Then stop coming, because as long as you keep saying stupid things, you will keep being insulted.
You are not the victim here. You are getting the treatment you deserve.
And quite frankly, I think you do come here to be insulted.
You have a thing for transsexuals. Your religion says that’s a sin and you deserve to be tortured for all of eternity. You hate yourself and believe you deserve punishment.
Frank DiSalle: “In the end , Strowbridge, Prescott Bush was convicted of nothing. The Bank and its assets were seized, but were they returned ? You don’t even know, do you?”
Yes I do know that. The link I provided shows that. It also has a quote from someone stating that the government didn’t have the resources to go after the people doing business with the Nazis.
If it is true that Obama’s handlers are deliberately letting this fester to make the Republicans look foolish…”
You are such a fucking piece of shit, Frank. Birthers demand greater and greater evidence from Obama, and you still blame Obama for, ‘letting this fester’.
You’re doing it again, Strowbridge. I was referring to someone else’s idea:
mrak Jul 18, 4:44 PM
If this magical, authoritative, canonical Birth Certificate exists, and Obama were to order it released to the world, it would have only these two negative effects for Obama:
1. He would look foolish for giving in, even on something so inconsequential, to the lunatic fringe.
2. He would throw cold water on a cauldron of right-wing stupidity that’s boiling over onto the GOP.
As Napoleon famously said: “Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake.”
Does that count as “Stupid Idea #2″ ?
And you have a thing for epileptic hunchbacks, so when you go out on a date, people make fun of you, which is why you’re so angry.
Don’t you ever, ever, use your bogus psychoanalysis for blaming me cuz you’re a prick.
We’ve been over this ground before, and you showed me the flame wars you were in before you ever met me, where you were a nasty, arrogant, foul mouthed twit. Back then, the justification was, “This is the way people on blogs treat each other”.
No. And you’re not getting the point of the repetition. It isn’t to be funny. It’s to replicate the mind-blowingly annoying shit-headedness of the birther fools who have absolutely zero to contribute to any reasonable conversation, yet who don’t shut up and go away.
Second, you’re wrong. I know who Mitch Snyder is. I don’t care what Republicans and other Reaganite nimrods think they know about 1980s homelessness.
So why don’t you provide me with some evidence about this “millions of homeless” thing that was supposedly said about the incoming Republican George W. Bush Jr?
Strowbridge, this is becoming an almost daily occurrence with you.
Your cockiness is your own worst enemy. Cockiness can be a good thing in life if your ‘talking the talk’ can ‘walk the walk’.
Your walk needs a walker.
Frank: “Don’t you ever, ever, use your bogus psychoanalysis for blaming me cuz you’re a prick.”
It’s not bogus psychoanalysis, Frank. We both know it’s the truth.
“We’ve been over this ground before, and you showed me the flame wars you were in before you ever met me, where you were a nasty, arrogant, foul mouthed twit. Back then, the justification was, ‘This is the way people on blogs treat each other’.”
No. The justification was, ‘I’m never the person who starts it.’
And that’s true here.
You’ve been an asshole since I’ve been here, Frank.
You are an asshole who likes to play the victim.
Frank: “And you have a thing for epileptic hunchbacks, so when you go out on a date, people make fun of you, which is why you’re so angry.”
On a side note, I find it funny that to insult you I just have to mention the truth, while you have to make something up.
Dennis the Bigot: “Strowbridge, this is becoming an almost daily occurrence with you.”
Prove it.
Or is this just another case where you can’t count past two?
By the way, thanks for reminding me of that. Always fun to remember the idiocy you’ve spouted in the past.
Wellll, two out of the last three days you’ve had to swallow your words and admit that what you claimed was true, was in fact, not.
Does two out of three days not qualify as proof of something getting to be an almost daily occurrence in Canada, because here in America, it does.
When you pull out the ‘can’t count past two’ line, Strowbridge, it usually means a concession of defeat for you.
It does here, too.
“…Prescott Bush was convicted of nothing.”
Big deal. Criminals escape prosecutions all the time in this world.
“Joseph Kennedy thought Britain…”
Every time some conservative brings up Joseph Kennedy and his opposition to WWII, liberals should bring up William Buckley (who was a far, faaaaaaar more iconic figure on the right that the former individual was on the left) and HIS opposition to WWII.
No, Strowbridge, I made something up BECAUSE you made something up. You know nothing about my “thing for transsexuals”; you know nothing about how I view it personally; you know nothing about my attitude toward my religion, what my religion is, or how it views my relationship with transsexuals (about which, I emphasize, you know nothing); and, finally, you have no knowledge as to whether I desire to be punished here, or anywhere.
You have effectively manufactured the story out of whole cloth. You can’t even state with certainty that I have a “thing for transsexuals.” All you “know” is that I claim membership in online transsexual organizations. All I can say is, if I ever find myself charged with a crime, I want you to be the Prosecutor. I am sure I’ll never be found guilty.
Zython, just shove off. Go fisk someone who cares. I no longer choose to play with some one as amateurish as you. You are “News Reference” without citations. What you lack in style , you also lack in substance.
And when pushed even so slightly, Frank goes into one of his trademark temper tantrums.
You know nothing about my “thing for transsexuals”;
If anything, we know too much.
Zython, I sincerely hope you don’t think that was a temper tantrum.
If anything, we know too much.
If you and your bigoted left wing buddies had not brought it up, no one would know about it.
I can’t help it if all you guys are phony, make believe liberals, that expect everyone else to think and act like left wingers, while you and your buddies are intolerant, lacking in compassion and have no real concern for other people.
And, yes, I mean you .
Looks like we have another Zython here in daniel rotter. Coming in very late to the thread and then spouting off irrelevant and incomprehensible tidbits that have zero to do with the conversation.
The point was, if you would take the time to understand the context, was that CS Strowbridge claimed as a point of fact that he was convicted, and wonder of wonders, Strowbridge was dead wrong.
Again, daniel rotter, you pull a Zython and completely space out the context. Kennedy was a horrible anti-Semite, too. The reason for bringing him up was Strowbridge’s ridiculous and debunked claim that Prescott Bush’s non-conviction “conviction” should’ve disqualified his sons from ever holding office, that if that were true, then so would’ve Joe Kennedy, Sr’s sons.
‘Do you have any idea how long ago the Nixon and Reagan administrations were, jrfunky’
Do you have any idea how long ago the moon landing was Den-Den?
To quote Paul Begala, I wasn’t alive during the French Revolution, but I know about it.
Hell Keyes is a self loathing racist, homophobe (even with a gay daughter) and xenophobe.
Reminds me of Uncle Ruckus from the Boondocks.
His business dealings, which continued until his company’s assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, …
Gee, that sounds serious. And hard to fake.
I can’t help it if all you guys are phony, make believe liberals, that expect everyone else to think and act like left wingers, while you and your buddies are intolerant, lacking in compassion and have no real concern for other people.
First off, it was just a joke. Not a very good one, but a joke none the less. Secondly, that fact that this statement is coming from someone who not a few days ago advocated using Iraqis as cannon fodder kinda make it lose its impact.
When someone comes forward from the State of Hawaii, and says, “We have viewed and inspected Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate, and there are no irregularities,” I will believe them.
Pretty sure that’s exactly what the governor of Hawaii said. The REPUBLICAN governor.
(i.e., Bushvilles),
I thought the nomenclature was Bush Gardens?
If you and your bigoted left wing buddies had not brought it up, no one would know about it.
Come now, Frank. All anyone has to do is follow your myspace link. It’s right there in your name.
Birthers have a point
The State of Hawaii has the original birth certificate. Why won’t Obama release it?
YOU go birthers! I only found out a few days ago about the controversy over obamas BC. The truth will come out very soon.A few riots are better than what this great nation is headed for at this present time. God bless America.