Finally, Oversight Of The Bush Era’s CIA Activities
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Because so far the Dems have been mostly talk, and not even enough of that.
The House Intelligence Committee has asked the CIA to provide documents about the now-canceled program to target al-Qaida leaders, congressional officials said Tuesday. The move is a precursor to what will almost certainly become a full-blown investigation into the secret operation and why the program was not disclosed to Congress, said the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
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Democratics are gonna look REALLY stupid arguing that the CIA shouldn’t have been running a program dedicated to killing al Qaidas.
Killing al Qaidas, farris? Really?
No, YOU look really stupid arguing a program like this should be kept a secret from Congress and should just be up to the CIA.
That’s the issue.
Al Qaeda people generally don’t come clearly labeled, and CIA people have been known to screw up, go off on their own little jaunts, or both.
All of that could have spelled disaster. You need some non-gung-ho people in another branch of government to provide a bit of oversight and sanity.
Republicans look REALLY treacherous protecting Republican Cheney’s secret assassination squads.
Secret assassinaton squads that never existed. Double secret, I guess, Newsie.
Farris, Pres. Ford (R) signed into law an executive order outlawing just such an activity — assassinations.
There’s nothing wrong with a program to kill Al Qaeda leaders. That is, in fact, stated U.S. policy. So why keep it from congress?
Republican Cheney’s assassination squads were in the wings for eight years and were required by law to have been reported to Congress.
It’s the “required by law to have been reported to Congress” part that is key.
…
Remember when Republicans claimed that it was the lie (about a consensual blowjob) that was worth impeaching a President?
And then Republicans listened to a Republican President lie US into a war that got thousands killed and cost over 2/3rds of a trillion dollars (and counting).
And now there’s clear evidence of another law broken by a Republican leader and this time it’s about secret assassination squads…
… and the right winger’s are now defending eight years of lying about secret assassination squads.
Remember folks, the Good Ole Lord only gives superpowers to the anointed (from real america). There woulda been too many traitorous godless Dems in on the action.
Unfortunately at the time, telling Congress was synonymous with telling the New York Times and them telling al Qaeda and the rest of the world, Oliver.
So right winger “Dennis” cites propaganda pictures by militant right wing extremist Michelle “Concentration Camp Advocate” Malkin to make false assertions?
Right winger’s approval of illegal actions by Republicans is reprehensible.
Lawless scum.
Unfortunately at the time, telling Congress was synonymous with telling the New York Times and them telling al Qaeda and the rest of the world, Oliver.
Kind of like talking to Linda Tripp and her illegal phone taping system that somehow she didn’t get prosecuted for.
But since telling the Gang of Eight was required by law, do you have any problem with prosecution of these people, who can then cite your concerns in court as part of their defense?
I doubt she drew them up, Newsie, she just posted them. Like using a picture from Wildwood, NJ to depict a ‘mindset’ in Texas, I figured it was ok to use her site for the posters to depict the overall mindset of several liberals in Congress.
Hey, blame whoever dropped the ball on that one.
And my God, Repack, you’re like Strowbridge and the Southern Strategy with this Lewinsky thing.
Let it go, man. Let it go.
Republicans attempted a coup over a blowjob and then Republicans let a Republican President lie US into war, torture people, commit war crimes, illegally surveil American Citizens on American soil, and now Republicans are defending Republican Cheney’s illegal concealment of assassination squads.
Contemptible.
Republicans are lawless extremists.
Really now, Newsie, wouldn’t contemptible be a better descriptor for your Democratic heroes if they chose to prosecute this nothingburger of a case when they just happened to let those other minor infractions go, assuming they were true, which you declare
dailyhourly that they are?Where’s your outrage, Newsie? Where’s you sense of justice?
You really don’t have one thread of moral fiber in your entire body, do you?
Contemptible scum, indeed.
“No, YOU look really stupid arguing a program like this should be kept a secret from Congress and should just be up to the CIA.”
the CIA was able to keep this program a secret for 8 years. Congress couldn’t keep it under their hat for a week before leaking it to the NYT. Looks like Cheney/CIA was right not to trust Congress.
Is this the “secret” program that NY Times reported on in 2002?
Yeah, this is a good use of taxpayer dollars.
I’ll give you this, “Dennis”, it’s been contemptible to watch Congress fail to hold the Republican Torture Regime accountable for war crimes.
It’s been contemptible to watch Congress allow Republican Bush’s lying US into war, an unnecessary war that’s killed thousands of Americans and cost US 2/3rds of a trillion (and counting), go unpunished.
It was contemptible to watch Congress fail to hold the Republican’s illegal surveillance program get retroactively ‘legalized’.
And it will be contemptible if Congress doesn’t fully investigate Republican Cheney’s illegal concealment of assassination squads.
If the program reported in the NYT is the same program a) why would it have to be secret and b) why couldn’t they tell congress? These are pretty basic questions. I hope the congressional investigation answers them.
“SaveFarris”: “the CIA was able to keep this program a secret for 8 years”
False.
Seymour Hersh revealed that there was a secret assassination program tied to Republican Dick Cheney before Congress knew.
Apparently someone in the CIA blew the whistle.
“SaveFarris”: “the CIA was able to keep this program a secret for 8 years”
Are you saying that Republican Dick Cheney had secret assassination squads set up before 9/11, 2001?
the CIA was able to keep this program a secret for 8 years.
Even though they were required by law to report it to the Gang of Eight. We are in agreement that the CIA violated federal law. The only disagreement we have is over what should happen to criminals, which is the term we use to describe people who violate laws.
Do you think the CIA should be bound by federal law? If not, what SHOULD define the parameters of what they are allowed to do?
This Seymour Hersh, News Reference.
“If the things Hersh said happened, why didn’t he report them? He didn’t, probably because they didn’t happen.”
That Seymour Hersh, Newsie?
So, will all the wingnuts apologize to Nancy Pelosi now?
Oh yeah, Big Sure on that one, Burn. We’ll stop talking about the unstimulated economy you guys just threw $800 billion of Stimulus at, too.
Any other requests?
Looks like Cheney/CIA was right not to trust Congress.
I believe the question is whether or not Cheney/CIA were right to violate federal law.
Save, you wanna argue that sometimes it’s okay for intelligence agencies and presidents to break the law whenever they think it’s necessary?
Oliver was skeptical of Hersh’s original assertions and explicitly noted his skepticism on his blog.
I was skeptical of Seymour Hersh’s allegations of a Republican Cheney Death Squad when they first came out as well.
But Seymour Hersh’s outlandish accusations keep getting proven correct.
The thing about good reporters is that they can know a thing is true but can’t always reveal the evidence they have that proves it without damaging their sources.
But note that what Hersh says verbally is looser than what he puts in print. What Hersh puts in print is reliable and has enough evidence to support his assertions that even Republicans have a hard time slithering away from.
As for some of Seymour Hersh’s verbal allegations, keep in mind that under Republican Bush/Cheney evidence has been destroyed, video tapes were destroyed, and “state secrets” were (and have since been) repeatedly claimed to conceal evidence (most recently torture photos but also evidence of illegal surveillance).
Let’s start asking Republicans questions under oath.
Clearly if Republicans aren’t under oath nothing they say can be believed.
Such as, Newsie. What outlandish allegations of his have been proven lately?
How many times has Hersh claimed an attack by our military on Iran was imminent?
Fine fellows you glorify, Newsie. As long as they say negative things about Republicans, their methodologies and credibility aren’t much of an issue to you, are they?
For the same reason anyone keeps what they’re doing a secret from those who are supposed to watch over them (child/parent, VP/Congress). Because they know what they are doing is wrong, would not be approved of, and that they wouldn’t be allowed to do it.
Obama (and Oliver) need to bring this up because Obama made capturing binLadin a key piece of his campaign and, as of yet, he hasn’t done d**k to accomplish that. Democratics gave Bush about 9 months before campaigning on it. That gives Obama until the end of October before people start asking questions. And what better way to distract from that than by trumping up these charges in order to silence potential critics?
SaveFarris: Democratics are gonna look REALLY stupid arguing that the CIA shouldn’t have been running a program dedicated to killing al Qaidas.
Democrats (stop parading your ignorance and immaturity and learn how to say the word, Farris) are gonna look REALLY good arguing that the CIA shouldn’t have been running an illegal program.
Fixed.
as of yet, he hasn’t done d**k to accomplish that
Yeah, all those troops are in Afghanistan for their suntans.
Democratics gave Bush about 9 months before campaigning on it
America and Democrats gave him 8 years and he was too incompetent to do the job.
Dennis: Unfortunately at the time, telling Congress was synonymous with telling the New York Times and them telling al Qaeda and the rest of the world, Oliver.
Which, if true, means there could be additional laws being broken and those who revealed info that they should not have should have been prosecuted.
Or are you really arguing that breaking the law is justified because someone else breaks it to?
Dennis: ..I figured it was ok to use her site for the posters …
I get a “You don’t have permission to access /v1/archives/images/poster024.jpg on this server.” when trying to get to any of your Malkin links.
Not that I mind not being allowed into Malkin’s site, but would like to be able to see what you’re pointing at.
SaveFarris: Looks like Cheney/CIA was right not to trust Congress.
Except the oaths Bush and Cheney took when taking office required that they follow the laws, and those laws required them to notify Congress. You’re arguing that they should utterly disregard those laws whenever they want to.
You’re saying that America should be a dictatorship.
You know what, Sean, I’m pretty sure I posted all those posters correctly and checked them after I hit submit and they came up ok, so not sure what happened after that.
In any event, here ya go. Enjoy.
So in order to change the subject from Republicans illegal actions, right winger “SaveFarris” brings up Republican President Bush’s failure to capture or kill Osama bin Laden for eight solid years?
For the record: Republican President Bush was immediately warned that bin Laden and terrorism were serious threats when he became President and Republican Bush ignored the warnings.
Republican President Bush was even warned that bin Laden was going to attack America before September 11th 2001 and Republican Bush stayed on his vacation.
Even after the September 11th, 2001 attacks, Republican Bush went on more vacations than any President in American history.
But it’s always someone else’s fault in right wingers mind.
Sean, honestly, my true feeling is this would be a mistake to attempt to prosecute. It’s a fight that will produce no winners and will make a lot of CIA and politicians on both sides look bad. And this country has much bigger fish to fry right now trying to combat terrorism and finish two wars. I know it’s a fight you guys would probably look forward to to assuage frustrations for all the other crimes you believe were committed, but I don’t think ultimately it ever would.
It’s a fight that will produce no winners and will make a lot of CIA and politicians on both sides look bad.
Why should we care if criminals have their feelings hurt? Please explain your sympathy for criminals, because I don’t share it.
What is YOUR solution for dealing with lawbreaking at the highest level?
Sean, honestly, my true feeling is this would be a mistake to attempt to prosecute. It’s a fight that will produce no winners and will make a lot of CIA and politicians on both sides look bad. And this country has much bigger fish to fry right now trying to combat terrorism and finish two wars.
Yeah, you’re right. Upholding the Rule of Law is just do dadgum hard. And we’re at war! We should just pretend nothing ever happened. Besides, it’s not as if President Cheney got a blowjob or anything! Sheesh!
“…honestly, my true feeling is…” That’s big funny. Busted the Unintentional Comedy Meter (non-Palin version), it did.
“…honestly, my true feeling is…”
Shades of, “Honestly, I think we should just trust our president in every decision he makes and should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens.” when the question was about George Bush, Jr. and whether we should debate the Iraq Invasion (how’d that turn out, btw?).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82py_wk5vE4
Thanks for the (unintentional) yuks, Dennis.
I believe the question is whether or not Cheney/CIA were right to violate federal law.
And what federal law was broken here? This action was based on a Presidential finding.
In addition, I have to wonder about the reaction from people (particularly Oliver) who have been blathering for the last 6 years about how we should be “killing terrorists.” That’s what this program was designed to do. Kill terrorists. Particularly, Al Qaeda leaders.
This is nothing but a piss-poor attempt by Democrats to cover Madam Speaker Pelosi’s ass for her lies about the CIA interrogations. Thanks Democrats for politicizing our national security. This is what happens when a Democratic hack runs the CIA.
First of all, Repack, just who is the criminal you are talking about? You are the guy here who is so obsessed with the Clinton/Lweisnky proceeding and making sure everyone here knows this was a $60mm investigation that Bill Clinton was never convicted of any crime for.
So if I say Nancy Pelosi commited a crime and should be investigated by saying the CIA lies to Congress ‘all the time’, would I be justified in asking you the same question “Why should we care if criminals have their feelings hurt? Please explain your sympathy for criminals, because I don’t share it.“?
It certainly sounds like it.
It certainly sounds like it.
And you know what you sound like? Britney Spears.
To recap:
The question: Should we debate invading Iraq? Answer:
Compared to:
Question: Should the Cheney Administration be investigated for possible crimes?:
One speaker was Dennis, the other Britney Spears. Can you tell the difference? Does it really matter?
Indeed,
You’re like News Reference in that you don’t have the courage of conviction to think people got your point the first time, so you feel the need to keep repeating it.
You’re not nearly as bad as he is, but it’s still nevertheless quite pathetic.
It’s also pathetic that you would even know that Britney Spears even said that, much less refer to it in an argument, not once but twice. I realize a lot of you guys show up here for the comics, movies and gaming posts, but dude, seriously, get a life.
Britney? Is that you? Hey, loved your work in Fahrenheit 9/11. Ciao!
Whatever, dude. I think even Britney could come up with better arguments than you could, though. You might want to take notes from her, just as a starting point, and then work your way up the big league blogs.
And what federal law was broken here? This action was based on a Presidential finding.
We don’t know do we? But covert actions require both a presidential finding and a report to Congress. It’s not either or.
Dennis: You know what, Sean, I’m pretty sure I posted all those posters correctly and checked them after I hit submit and they came up ok, so not sure what happened after that.
In any event, here ya go. Enjoy.
Thanks, that worked.
The link, I mean. Your thinking that ridiculously partisan posters from the ilk that think Malkin actually has a brain actually support anything you say is still major flail.
Dennis: Sean, honestly, my true feeling is this would be a mistake to attempt to prosecute. It’s a fight that will produce no winners and will make a lot of CIA and politicians on both sides look bad. And this country has much bigger fish to fry right now trying to combat terrorism and finish two wars.
Yeah, Dennis, I guess they’re all just too busy to, you know, uphold the oaths they took upon taking office. And we wouldn’t want to make those who’ve broken the law look bad.
And it sets such a good model for future administrations. Fuck things up royally before leaving office so whoever follows you is so busy cleaning up that they can’t “waste” time investigating even the most gross violations of the law.
Jay: In addition, I have to wonder about the reaction from people (particularly Oliver) who have been blathering for the last 6 years about how we should be “killing terrorists.” That’s what this program was designed to do. Kill terrorists.
So why not tell Congress about it? The main objection isn’t to the existence of the program, but to its being deliberately hidden from Congress. But you don’t really want to focus on that part, do you? You want to dodge that question.
Dennis: It’s also pathetic that you would even know that Britney Spears even said that, much less refer to it in an argument, not once but twice.
Yes, shame on you for having an array of knowledge and for being able to draw on it in a discussion.
(And this from the guy who things Malkin posters support his arguments.)
At least one of us laughed hysterically looking at all those posters though, Sean. And its a good thing to laugh in these times.
An array of knowledge? Whoever the CNN interviewer was who asked Britney Spears what she thought of George Bush should have his Democratic party membership revoked. I can’t imagine being in a profession like that and interviewing the most air-headed of air-head celebrities what she thought of the President, much less bring up her answer in a political debate, even to highlight the absurdity of it. My God, Sean, am I someone who has more vast array of knowledge if I know what Lindsay Lohan thinks of Barack Obama’s stimulus package? Hell no, it only means I’m a complete douche with no life whatsoever that I have the time to even ponder it or recall it in an argument.
And no harm meant to you if you do know what LiLo thinks of Obama’s stimulus package.
And the Malkin posters were to ruffle Newsie’s feathers mostly. Not yours, Sean.
Then why not start with the far, far more gross violations of the law that you guys claim were made every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year for the last eight years? Why start with a program that was never even enacted, that if enacted, Congress would’ve been briefed, and if enacted, may very likely have saved countless American lives?
Just not a bold move on the part of your Democratic leadership, Sean. I’m saying that in all sincerity.
CIA people have been known to screw up, go off on their own little jaunts, or both.
There’s a reason they’re called cowboys. And not in a good way.
Obama (and Oliver) need to bring this up because Obama made capturing binLadin a key piece of his campaign and, as of yet, he hasn’t done d**k to accomplish that. Democratics gave Bush about 9 months before campaigning on it.
Oh, shut the fuck UP! You have NO credibility to criticize not capturing bin Laden in the first SIX MONTHS of his term. We (Democrats)gave Bush eight fucking years and he did absolutely dick to find him, in fact, reducing the size of the team charged specifically with finding him.
To wit; “I don’t spend a lot of time thinking about him.” George Bush speaking of bin Ladin 8 months after 9/11.
You know what, Sean, I’m pretty sure I posted all those posters correctly and checked them after I hit submit and they came up ok, so not sure what happened after that.
How come there isn’t one with Geraldo Rivera?
…the most air-headed of air-head celebrities what she thought of the President…
…the same air-headed celebrity who’s remarks are practically indistinguishable from Dennis’s (or is this Britney?). Which–it bears repeating–was the point in the first place.
Thanks Democrats for politicizing our national security.
Excuse me? Who did that for the last 7 years? Who up’d the threat level rainbow every time there was an election?
And what federal law was broken here? This action was based on a Presidential finding.
We don’t know do we?
Hence the need for an investigation and congressional oversight. See how that works, Jay?
Yes, shame on you for having an array of knowledge and for being able to draw on it in a discussion.
Toosh, Sean. Lol’ed.
We don’t know do we? But covert actions require both a presidential finding and a report to Congress. It’s not either or.
A. There was a Presidential finding.
B. Congress was briefed on said presidential finding.
C. The specific program that was created under this Presidential finding that has the undies of House Democrats and liberals across the blogosphere in a wad was never operational and had not been used.
As such, there were no “covert actions” that took place, only a plan that was put together.
So as I said before, this is nothing but Democrats shamelessly using national security for political purposes. Way to go!
As such, there were no “covert actions” that took place, only a plan that was put together.
Well then, you and Former President Cheney have nothing to worry about.
Dennis: <i.At least one of us laughed hysterically looking at all those posters though, Sean. And its a good thing to laugh in these times.
Oh, don’t worry, Dennis. I found those posters laughable, too.
Dennis: Then why not start with the far, far more gross violations of the law that you guys claim were made every hour of every day of every week of every month of every year for the last eight years? Why start with a program that was never even enacted, that if enacted, Congress would’ve been briefed, and if enacted, may very likely have saved countless American lives?
You say that as if that isn’t something I’d like to see.
I’ve made my discust with the Democratic leaderships inactivity on these matters quite clear in the past. As others here have.
But I don’t think that, just becuase there are larger crimes that should also be investigated, that smaller ones should be allowed to slide. While you, on the other hand, seem to believe that if you can’t solve the entire problem you shouldn’t even try to solve some of it.
And here I thought it was the right wing that was supposed to be so law-and-order.
?
Right wingers are supporting secret Executive death squads.
Currently the left is just asking is that such secret death squads have the oversight of our Congress in accordance with our Laws.
Right winger “Jay” brings up a common right wing distraction in complaining that the program “was never operational and had not been used.”
First, that’s speculation. He doesn’t know that and is only reciting what he was told by his authoritarian leaders.
Second, after it’s initial use, our nuclear offensive programs have never been operational and have not been used for 64 years. That’s never prevented Congress from having some oversight over the unused and nonoperational programs.
As much as right wingers are comfortable with giving unfettered power to their designated military dictator, technically we still live in a Republic where our Representatives and Senators (along with our Judiciary) have checks and balances on the Executive.
The “Left” now owns the “conservative” belief in the Rule of Law.
And the “Right” apparently thinks an all powerful military dictator shouldn’t have anyone able to ‘check’ or ‘balance’ that military dictators ability to have a secret hit squad in the wings and ready to be deployed on a whim.
(And aren’t “operational” and “used” are the same thing?)
Well then, you and Former President Cheney have nothing to worry about.
Ok. So you support having investigations and hearings despite the fact that nothing warrants such investigations and hearings. That’s not surprising.
NR, like I said earlier: Go take your meds. Either that or get off the sauce.
Right winger “Jay” is okay with secret death squads being run out of Republican Vice President Cheney’s office without any oversight.
Right wingers have a bizarre and sick desire to have a right wing military dictatorship rule this country.
Jay: So you support having investigations and hearings despite the fact that nothing warrants such investigations and hearings.
Nothing warrants?
But lets not look into the matter to find out if any laws were broken, to find out if notification was required, right? Because nothing warrants that attention.
But let’s not bother trying to establish what actually happened. Because it would be unwarranted, right?
But those questions shouldn’t be answered or even asked because there is nothing to see here, right.
There is clearly nothing odd going on and no reason at all to even look into it to find out.
Because actually knowing things is just a bad idea, right?
Now seems like a good time to revisit Britney’s thoughts on the subject:
That will never stop being hilarious.
Why are people getting all upset over Cheney’s illegal death squads, illegal torture techniques, illegal NSA spying program, lets face it, nothing will happen to him, they might investigate, the justification will be 9/11, 9/11, 9/11 or you are only giving ammunition to our enemies and in the end nothing will happen, he is part of the ruling class. The chickens are coming home to roost from the operatives that stole the election for Bush/Cheney 2000 in Florida and 2004 in Ohio. I love listening to Bill O’Reilly, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck, these chicken hawks on the War on Terror have become chicken little’s that the sky is falling when it comes to the economy, too funny.
NR: “Well then, you and Former President Cheney have nothing to worry about.”
Jay Caruso: “Ok. So you support having investigations and hearings despite the fact that nothing warrants such investigations and hearings. That’s not surprising.
NR, like I said earlier: Go take your meds. Either that or get off the sauce.”
So Dick Cheney tells the CIA to lie to congress, and you think that’s not reason enough to investigate.
But you think those who want an investigation are crazy.
Jesus-fucking-Christ, the GOP is in a world of trouble with idiots like you as their base.