But right winger “Amused Observer” comes from the right wing’s “I’ve got mine! F’ everyone else” philosophy.

As for Cuba exporting Doctors, it’s the kind of thing America used to do during the Cold War to show how our system was superior.

Cuba’s exportation of Doctors to Latin America is essentially a political investment as much as it is an investment in human capital.

While we’ve got policies that often hurt the average Latin American (or policies that can easily be depicted that way), Cuba is sending those same countries Healers.

It’s an extremely sophisticated way of reaching out to those countries and has the added benefit of potentially bringing in money (remittances) from those Doctors back to Cuba.

Meanwhile, things like America’s PeaceCorps are often ridiculed by right wingers who have often preferred the method of arming right wing thugs in Latin America or have used the muscle of the IMF (ala ‘economic hitmen’ style) to achieve their objectives.

It’s extremely ironic that our system is getting beat by Cuban investment in both human capital and diplomatic marketing in Latin America.

(The right wing’s persistent attacks on Hispanics don’t help America’s image down South, either.)

What’s the racist asshole whining about now?

“Oh yes I see, the idea that supply and demand have a symbiotic link and increasing supply leads to more competitive conditions and falling prices.”

Are you talking about the American system that costs more and have worse outcomes? Really impressive display of supply and demand in action.

“CS, such language…”

Style over substance is still a logical fallacy.

“…it appears you are trying to hurt my feelings.”

Projection.

“Your little fits of rage…”

Again, this is projection. I can call you a fucking ‘tard and not be in a fit of rage. Who the fuck uses an apostrophe in a fit of rage, by the way. Or for that matter, semi-colons and ellipses? I take the time to use grammatical devices that most people don’t bother with under the best of circumstances.

Do you really think I’m capable of this while under a fit of rage? Good lord, I wish I had that kind of control.

You want to see me under a fit of rage. You should have been here when the Canucks were eliminated from the play-offs. The neighbors could hear me swearing after each goal.

“Giving the thumbs up or thumbs down. Such power, such prestige.”

You are such a fucking jealous prick.

My job rocks, while your job must suck ass.

It must suck so much ass to constantly bring up my occupation over and over and over again.

And seriously, why do you bother?

Do you really think you are scoring points by saying, in essence, ‘You are a published author who receives thousands of dollars of free DVDs and Blu-rays every year.’ Because this is the reality of the situation.

Ooohhh! Your verbal barbs sting so. Please, please make it stop.

(That was sarcasm. Just in case you didn’t figure it out.)

By the way, how’s your health?

Ha ha ha!

Your little fits of rage don’t always seem appropriate to the moment. It must have been tough adapting on the playground. It’s so much better now that you don’t have to do that anymore, isn’t it? CS, the king of all he surveys, sitting in front of the screen rating dvds. Giving the thumbs up or thumbs down. Such power, such prestige.

Of course your parents are besides themselves with worry. Guilt too, “What did we do wrong for the boy to turn out such as he is?”

Laughing simpleton.

“Despite being a brutally repressive Commie community, in thier own way Cuba has applied free market principles to health care.”

You are a fucking retard.

You are so fucking retarded, that you should be locked away in a mental institute.

I’m just glad that idiots like you are among the minority and are losing political power.

Hell, idiots like you are among the minority OF FUCKING REPUBLICANS.

As SFC B pointed out much earlier increasing our supply of providers by letting less qualified people handle the simpler aspects of medical care we would be able to help satisfy the demand at more competitve prices. Well done News, you’re an advocate of market based solutions!

SFC B: “I guarantee you that you’re wrong there.”

You are a military man, aren’t you. That’s right. You have excellent access to GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTH CARE.

Me: “39,252 (traffic) deaths…”

SFC B: “Actually it was 43,443 in 2005.”

Dueling sources. And it’s less than than 5k difference.

“I provided you a source which is totally unrelated to the health care system which results in .46% more Americans dying than the Canadians.”

No, no, no.

0.46 people per 10,000, or 0.0046%.

This is beyond tiny.

“Other factors like our US’s obscene incarceration rate cause issues which lower the results from health care but are out of the control of health care.”

Okay. I’ll back you up there. The United States needs to stop jailing people who small amounts of pot. HOWEVER, while the incarceration rate in Canada is 5.6 times smaller.

5.6 fucking times smaller! Either Canadians are vastly superior to Americans when it comes to obeying the law, or there’s something fucking wrong with your justice system. You need to stop outsourcing the justice system to for profit companies, which have zero incentive to cut recidivism rates.

… End rant.

While the rates are much smaller in Canada than they are in the United States, we are still talking about a very small percentage of the population. Less than 1% of the population is in Jail right now, and that includes people who are not going to be adversely affected by their stay. I doubt being in a minimum security, white-collar jail is going to shave much time off your lifespan.

“I did. Total pain in the ass and WHO doesn’t make it easy to present results of custom searches onto the web.”

Give me a link. It can’t be that hard to cut and paste a URL. Or even a URL plus some search terms.

Cuba?

That dmn communist decided to invest in human capital and trained so many Doctors, last I heard, Cuba was exporting Doctors.

It’s still an authoritarian, undemocratic, repressive regime, but it does have good enough Doctors so you don’t have to sit in a emergency room with a crowd full of people all waiting in line like you do in America.

And Cuba has a lower infant mortality rate than US.

Crazy.

But we beat them in life expectancy, but “SFC B” would be contemptuous and dismissive by how little.

I have better availability and more options for health care than you do.

I guarantee you that you’re wrong there.

39,252 (traffic) deaths…

Actually it was 43,443 in 2005.

Therefore, there were 0.46 more driving fatalities per 10,000…

And in the WHO reports, when comparing industrialized nations, those halves of a percent make huge differences when comparing between nations.

You asked for what non-health care factors between the US and Canada which would account for the difference in the results from health care. I provided you a source which is totally unrelated to the health care system which results in .46% more Americans dying than the Canadians. Other factors like our US’s obscene incarceration rate cause issues which lower the results from health care but are out of the control of health care.

Your claim. You do the fucking research.

I did. Total pain in the ass and WHO doesn’t make it easy to present results of custom searches onto the web. You don’t have to take my word for it, you can do it yourself. If you don’t want to fine, can’t say I blame you. Not going to hurt my feelings either way. Simple fact though is the US, according to the WHO, gets some of the best results in the world from its health care system. Thanks to people who are a combination of too lazy to actually see what things like the WHO rankings mean, and who benefit from misrepresenting them, the US gets slammed. Because the US gets slammed its current presidential administration wants to replace it with a system that will deliver poorer results, but rank higher because of a subjective assumption about “fairness”.

Oops. Looks like I goofed here. Found a source that said the population in the United States was 296,410,404 in 2005. That would make the difference even less.

None, you fucking idiot. It’s OVERHEAD. It’s paper work. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH PROVIDING HEALTH CARE.

Jesus, are you really this fucking stupid?

“But it’s a savings which comes at the cost of availibity and access to treatment options.”

I guess you really are this stupid.

You are repeating a right-wing lie. I have better availability and more options for health care than you do. This is true, because my insurance provider is never going to say, ‘I’m sorry, you forgot to mention you had acne in high school and went to a dermatologist. So we are not going to pay for your pancreatic cancer.’

“Off the top of my head I’d guess at least one major factor would be the rate of car ownership and use, which is a possibility I’d brought up before. Americans drive more, a lot more, than Canadians and far more traffic fatalities and injuries as a result.”

2005 = 2,923 deaths in Canada out of 32,623,490 people
2005 = 39,252 death in United States out of 288.4 million

Therefore, there were 0.46 more driving fatalities per 10,000 in the United States in 2005 than there were in Canada.

Wow. That totally explains the massive difference in Health Care costs and outcomes.

Fucking idiot.

By the way, did you think I was just going to take your word on it? Is that why you made a statement of fact without any statistics to back it up?

“Actually you can do the research yourself by checking the stats from the WHO.”

Your claim. You do the fucking research.

Me: “The United States leads the world in its own perception of its health care system.
It’s true.
It’s weird, but it’s true.”

SFC B: “I don’t know why you’d think that’s weird.”

Because it sucks in terms of outcomes.

“I can’t see where anything says that treatments for cancer in Canada are obtained faster, but I do see that Canadians have to wait longer to have their cancers diagnosed which delays them beginning their treatment.”

And I trust your ‘facts’ on this matter exactly zero.

Since a massive amount of Americans simply can’t afford to be diagnosed, I doubt what you say is true.

Private, for profit health care has additional level of bureaucracy that is not needed in universal or ’socialized’ health care. This partially explains why 17% of every dollar spent in Canada goes to overhead while in the United States that figure is 33%.

How much of that increase in costs comes from greater and faster access to more services? How much of it is related to the fact that Americans have a higher income level than Canadians and thus can afford higher prices? If my spending 20% more gets me seen and treated sooner, or with a health care provider of my choice, that’s a premium I’d be willing to pay.

So switching to a Canadian system saves money.

But it’s a savings which comes at the cost of availibity and access to treatment options. The Canadian system saves that money by simply not providing services as quickly as they are provided in the US.

Canadians also live longer than Americans, despite having nearly identical rates of obesity, smoking, etc. Now, you could argue this was true despite the differences in health care systems, and not because of, but you would have to provide some real concrete evidence to back that up. I can’t even imagine what that evidence would be. (Much higher murder rate?)

Off the top of my head I’d guess at least one major factor would be the rate of car ownership and use, which is a possibility I’d brought up before. Americans drive more, a lot more, than Canadians and far more traffic fatalities and injuries as a result.

Got any proof of that? I’m sure if you compare the United States to all 195 or so countries in the world, it is in the top 20%, which sounds pretty good. But compared to 33 highly industrialized nations (those that score 0.900 or better on the Human Development Index) it’s not so good.

Actually you can do the research yourself by checking the stats from the WHO.

I played around with it a bit, there’s just a crap-ton of data in it, and when you factor out the things related to subjective determinations like the nebulous “cost fairness” the US falls smack in the middle of other industrialized nations. And is among the leaders in areas which have received tons of money for research like cancer treatment.

The United States leads the world in its own perception of its health care system.

It’s true.

It’s weird, but it’s true.

I don’t know why you’d think that’s weird. It also doesn’t mean that the perception of US health care within the US can’t be driven down by the context-less ranting about it’s cost and how national health care will be better.

Cancer treatments in Canada are faster.

I can’t see where anything says that treatments for cancer in Canada are obtained faster, but I do see that Canadians have to wait longer to have their cancers diagnosed which delays them beginning their treatment.

But hey, it’s “free”.

Actually, you can. If you adopted a Canadian-like system, Americans would stop coming north of the border to buy cheaper prescription drugs, which is putting a strain on our system.

Then again, I don’t have any health problems I need to deal with, as I’m healthier than I’ve been in years. What about you?

Really? And where’s your evidence of that? Personally, I think you are just passing along a right-wing lie.

“But CS I am curious, in which country could I get the fastest respose for a medical problem?”

Depends on what you are looking at. Cancer treatments in Canada are faster. Getting a sprained knee looked at would be faster in the States.

“We hear you have a longer waiting period for appointments, tests, etc. Any truth to that?”

Not really. Last time I needed an appointment I called at 3:00 p.m. and was able to get an appointment for 9:00 a.m. the next day.

Really? You haven’t seen the evidence? Are you blind or stupid? I ask because it has been given, in this very thread.

Private, for profit health care has additional level of bureaucracy that is not needed in universal or ‘socialized’ health care. This partially explains why 17% of every dollar spent in Canada goes to overhead while in the United States that figure is 33%.

To provide $100 of health care, Canadians spend $120.
To provide $100 of health care, Americans spend $149.

That’s less money. A lot less money. So switching to a Canadian system saves money.

Canadians also live longer than Americans, despite having nearly identical rates of obesity, smoking, etc. Now, you could argue this was true despite the differences in health care systems, and not because of, but you would have to provide some real concrete evidence to back that up. I can’t even imagine what that evidence would be. (Much higher murder rate?)

“The US has an extremely effective health care system, one of the best in the world, even the best by some measurements.”

Got any proof of that? I’m sure if you compare the United States to all 195 or so countries in the world, it is in the top 20%, which sounds pretty good. But compared to 33 highly industrialized nations (those that score 0.900 or better on the Human Development Index) it’s not so good.

“What drives the perception of it down is that its cost is more visible to its people.”

No. The United States leads the world in its own perception of its health care system.

It’s true.

It’s weird, but it’s true.

Me: “If they referred to the same 1000, then in the United States, then 6.26 out of every 13.82 children would not live past their first birthday. Not even you are dumb enough to believe that.”

SFC B: “I’d probably avoid the ad hominem in the same paragraph where you make an even bigger blunder than anyone else had.”

And what blunder is that?

I pointed out exactly where you might have made the mistake. Having more kids would not result in a higher percentage of them dying before the age of one. There’s no logical reason for that.

So what blunder did I make?

“I think you’ll care when it comes to your six months. ”

There is every indication that if this plan goes through it will be at the expense of the elderly, who take up way more than thier “fair” share of health care. So yes CS those last 6 months may indeed be something you would care about, too bad we are saving money by limiting your access to health care when statistically you need it the most.

But CS I am curious, in which country could I get the fastest respose for a medical problem? We hear you have a longer waiting period for appointments, tests, etc. Any truth to that?

Fucking hell. You guys really are retarded.–C.S. Strowbridge

There he goes again.

“It is… axiomatic that we should all think of ourselves as being more sensitive than other people because, when we are insensitive in our dealings with others, we cannot be aware of it at the time: conscious insensitivity is a self-contradiction.” –W.H. Auden

Strowbridge cannot fathom that when he pretends that he and he alone is the sensitive one and those disagreeing with him are retarded and uncaring for anyone but their own misguided interests, that he is being a complete ass by making fun of the very people he professes to care so much about.

Perhaps if we thought universal health care would help him and his mental illness, we might be more in favor of it, but unfortunately, as U.S. citizens we can do little to nothing to improve the Canadian health care system.

I would love to know what is going through your diseased mind when you argue against something that will save money, save lives, and build a stronger nation.

I’m not arguing against something that will save money, save lives, or build a strong nation. I’m arguing that it will do none of that because I’m yet to see anyone make an evidence-based case that those things will happen as a result of the US government getting even more involved as a provider for health care. The US has an extremely effective health care system, one of the best in the world, even the best by some measurements. What drives the perception of it down is that its cost is more visible to its people.

If they referred to the same 1000, then in the United States, then 6.26 out of every 13.82 children would not live past their first birthday. Not even you are dumb enough to believe that.

I’d probably avoid the ad hominem in the same paragraph where you make an even bigger blunder than anyone else had.

I think you’ll care when it comes to your six months.

“The infant mortality rate in the US is 6.26/1000 children. The EU is 5.72/1000. Of course, to die a child must be born. So what is the flip side to this? Birth rate! The EU’s birth rate is 9.9 births per 1000 people. The US’s birth rate is 13.82 per 1000 people. Stands to reason that having more children will increase the chances that more children die during child birth.”

No. No it doesn’t stand to reason this would happen. Not on a per capita basis. Or do you not know what these numbers means?

Oh dear god! You don’t know what that means. You think the per 1000 infant mortality refers to the same 1000 in the birth rate.

Fucking hell. You guys really are retarded.

I’ll give you a hint…

A.) The 1000 in the per 1000 infant mortality refers to 1000 children who were born.

B.) The 1000 in the per 1000 birth rate refers to the population at large.

If they referred to the same 1000, then in the United States, then 6.26 out of every 13.82 children would not live past their first birthday. Not even you are dumb enough to believe that.

“Oh, and since more than children die, the US actually has a lower death rate than the EU. Go figure.”

Average age is higher in Europe. More people are dying, because they have a larger percentage of people who are in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and up.

Go figure.

I would love to know what is going through your diseased mind when you argue against something that will save money, save lives, and build a stronger nation. (A healthy population is a production population. Productivity is the key to economic strength for a developed nation such as the United States.)

What is it?