SFC B:

I didn’t say whether I thought black people using the n-word was fine or not; I was merely pointing out that your logic was flawed.

To recap: Your logic was that since some black people decided to co-opt the n-word from their oppressors, then all black people must therefore be ok with saying it to each other. I still think that’s faulty logic.

I notice that you quoted another poster and seemed to apply the belief to me or to my position on this matter (even though I never stated a position). So perhaps this is a common issue with you: if one person believes something, all similar people (in this case, OW.com commenters?) must also believe it.

“Plenty of black people think that n****r is just as hurtful coming from another black person as from a white or Hispanic.”

As a black person, I can tell you this is just flat out wrong. I personally take offense to the term coming from anyone, but the difference is this:

Black person + saying “n****r” to me = reasoned discussion on why we should not use that word

White person + saying “n****r” to me = potential reactive chin check

Dunno. That’s just how it is. Just slightly worse than folks stating platitudes about what “plenty of black people think”. Your frame of reference is non-existent.

SOME blacks co-opted the word and are ok with using it. SOME didn’t. And therefore SOME are ok with using it and SOME aren’t. Same goes for any other pejorative term referring to a class of people.

So if SOME non-blacks were to refer to SOME blacks using n****r in its co-opted meaning, then it would be perfectly fine? Even though it is a word which you need to “multiply the effect by a thousand because of the historical significance of the pejorative” when compared to similar perjoratives about other races?

This is only true if all black people thought about this issue the exact same way.

SOME blacks co-opted the word and are ok with using it. SOME didn’t. And therefore SOME are ok with using it and SOME aren’t. Same goes for any other pejorative term referring to a class of people.

Black people co-opted the use of the word from its roots as a term from their oppressors. There’s no mirror reason for whites or Asians to use said term. Blacks are a part of the in-group for which the term has relevance. Anyone else, not so much.

By that logic any black person should be able to call any other black person n****r without worrying about it offending them. And yet, somehow, that isn’t the case. Plenty of black people think that n****r is just as hurtful coming from another black person as from a white or Hispanic.

This also get into the topic of who is black enough to use it. Would recent African immigrant blacks like Somalis not be allowed to use it as they didn’t co-op the word from their oppressors given that the Europeans who did get involved in Somalia didn’t use the word n****r? What about blacks from mixed-race couples? Do you need to be more than 50% black to be able to use n****r? 75%? 25%? Can I do something like Ward Churchill and get a membership card to become black enough to use it?

With the current use of n****r and its derivities in pop culture, it shouldn’t be surprising that it is losing some of its impact as a shocking word. The simple fact is that if it is going to be okay for one poorly defined group to use it, it will become okay for other groups to use it. The question is whether that is something people are going to want. Clearly it is a word which our host doesn’t approve of with his outing of the email address of someone who was using it.

I think getting Mr. Willis’ opinion on Mambochicken’s assumption that it’s acceptable for black to use n****r would be interesting.

1) I would be more offended if a black person made fun of me for being stereotypically white than if a white person did the same thing. Another good example – girls often joke with each other and call each other “bitch” or other terms in friendly conversation. However, as a white male, do you think that I am afforded the same allowance? Fuck no. If I called the same girl a bitch I probably get slapped.

2) My example re: white people is but a fucking tiny drop in the bucket compared to the examples of the term “n****r”.

3) “Also, speaking of simple social psych stuff, if an in-group is using n****r openly and without repercussion, shouldn’t it be expected that other groups would adopt it as well?”

Idiot. No. Black people co-opted the use of the word from its roots as a term from their oppressors. There’s no mirror reason for whites or Asians to use said term. Blacks are a part of the in-group for which the term has relevance. Anyone else, not so much.

4) AO, you’re too stupid to live. You don’t think that advertising works. Enough said.

“Oh wow, you have six million dollars. I thought you’d want to use that money to do something like help starving children NOT die, but fuck them, right?”

Interesting thought, SpiderJ. A few major holes in it, though.

1) Full Faith and Credit clause. Should DOMA be repealed or ruled unconstitutional, gay marriage in one state will pretty much mean gay marriage in all states.

B) The same reasoning about spending money applies to everyone who contributed to the fight in California, not just the Mormons.

III) If it’s their money, it’s theirs to spend any way they wish. If you don’t approve, then you don’t approve — but your disapproval doesn’t mean anything. They don’t owe you a single word of explanation.

I agreed with the Mormons (as well as with a lot of black and Hispanic churches) in California, but not for their reasons. I support gay marriage — but only when it’s passed in a free and democratic process, as has been done in several states here in New England, including my own New Hampshire. The way it was done in Massachusetts and California was wrong.

J.

My point exactly.

“Honestly, I think the “You can’t say it because you can’t understand” type of defense for using n****r is weak.”

Very weak. It wasn’t just black kids buying all those rap records.

We have a new winner for single stupidest fucking comment Jay Tea has ever posted. Congratulations, Jay Tea.

Yeah, bad example mambo. See Will Smith in “Hitch.”

You know why it’s okay for some people to say it and not others.

I can make a guess as to why some folks think it’s okay. And I suppose you could get into a debate about the difference between calling someone a n****r and a n***a.

However, if a black person makes fun of a white person for the same reason, that’s more offensive.

Or the punchline for every comedian to appear on Comedy Central throughout the 90’s.

It’s an in-group/out-group thing.

But in groups and out groups can be extremely flexible. Disregarding my personal experience with the word, knowing the historical meaning of n****r, as I do now, means I would never use it to refer to someone. Even in a hypothetical situation where, say, a close black friend would even give me permission to use it in reference to them.

Also, speaking of simple social psych stuff, if an in-group is using n****r openly and without repercussion, shouldn’t it be expected that other groups would adopt it as well?

Honestly, I think the “You can’t say it because you can’t understand” type of defense for using n****r is weak.

A friend of mine put it very succinctly w/r/t the Mormon financial push to help pass a law that affected them not in the slightest.

“Oh wow, you have six million dollars. I thought you’d want to use that money to do something like help starving children NOT die, but fuck them, right?”

It’s like me making fun of other white guys for being bad dancers with no rhythm. That’s pretty acceptable, as I am a white guy. However, if a black person makes fun of a white person for the same reason, that’s more offensive. It’s an in-group/out-group thing. Simple social psych stuff here.

Now take the above example, and multiply the effect by a thousand because of the historical significance of the pejorative, and there’s your answer. It’s not fucking rocket surgery.

I had a similar session with my mom at a very early age – her line was ‘if you use words like that, people will think you’re stupid.’

My family wasn’t native to that part of PA, they were originally from the “big city” of Pittsburgh, and the neighborhood they lived in had a mix of races. Also, my dad spent two tours in Vietnam and was in a unit with a number of Marines who were black (I didn’t learn that until this year when I received a few packages of his letters to his parents, which included pictures). My parents didn’t learn their sensitivity to n****r from their parents. None of my grandparents will be winning any awards from the NAACP this year. Interestingly, to me at least, my paternal grandfather has no problems using the word n****r, but he will only use it when referring to blacks he considered lazy back when he lived in the Caribbean in the 30s and 40s. Any other black person from any other time he will refer to as black, or some other less incendiary term.

And for those of you who complain that one segment of the population (black people) can “appropriately” use the word “nigger”, while the rest of the population cannot… well, your complaints demonstrate that you have little understanding of the historical significance of that word.

Please Mambochicken. Enlighten those of us who are ignorant. Explain to why it is that a word which has been viewed as a perjorative since at least the early 1900’s in the country, is perfectly fine when said between people of the same race, and why it is a word which will get people from any other race fired.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f02d0b8cca/word-association-from-nino

Found the clip to which I was referring earlier. For some reason I remembers it being a darker background. My favorite part is when Pryor’s character has to respond to “tarbaby” and just can’t believe that he’s being asked that in a word association thing.

Now, of course, I’m all grown up, married to a black man, with two adopted black sons, so clearly I must have learned _something_.

The treatment of individual Mormons — not the Church itself — came damned close to a hate crime.

Back to the asshole at hand… Kev, you’re still an asshole. And I dunno why Oliver felt the need to single this asshole out. I am curious as to where he left his little turds, though…

J.

Either you’re ignorant or a jackass. Or both.

Idiot.