Better Know A Racist
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kev_jh@yahoo.com likes to post comments on blogs calling people names like “nigger”. I thought you ought to know!
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Kev, have you ever heard the word “peckerwood”? I bet you have.
Whenever I encounter idiots who toss around racial epithets, I’m reminded of the classic Bloom County when Milo encounters his first black person on a bus. He’s so intimidated and freaked out that he lashes out with the nastiest slur he knows — he calls young Oliver (any relation?) a “honkey.”
Ever since then, it’s been hard for me to take racial epithets seriously. And even harder to take those who use them seriously.
Kev, you are SUCH an asshole, you don’t even realize how much of one you are.
J.
I just wonder if that isn’t Michael Richards, back in relapse.
Go pave your road, Kev.
Lenny Bruce said everyone should be required to use ‘nigger’ a dozen times a day so it would lose its shock value. But I guess it would just be replaced by something as bad or worse.
Not to give a “Kids Say the Darndest Things” story, but I just got a call from my friend about something very similar about an hour ago.
My friend has a 3 year-old and the father has been listening to a lot of rap lately. The 3 year-old has been hearing it by proxy. So when my friend asks her daughter if she’d like to watch Winny the Pooh, the response was “Tigger, you crazy.”
She’s 3, so she doesn’t have an email address yet. I think now-a-days, you get that when you’re 5.
Like say rap? Oh wait, that’s the same thing. So who is this fellow and how did he come to the attention of Oliver?
Nice response, Oliver.
“Kevin H”?
he has commented on gretawire
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=kev_jh&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
I grew up in central PA. Very, very white area. As a matter of fact the only racial minority I went to school with was an Indian kid. For the life of me I can’t remember where I heard it, probably from a friend, but I would call boom boxes “n****r boxes”. Well, one time I said this in front of my dad and he was quite upset. Took me aside and explained I was never to use that word again. This was back in like the early 80s and I was like 6. It wasn’t explained to me why I shouldn’t say it, but this was one of those moments where, it was quite clear, that word was not to be used.
The absolute disgust that black people feel toward that word was made clear to me a couple years later thanks to Saturday Night Live. I was watching a rerun of it and it had a skit where Chevy Chase was doing word association with Richard Pryor. They’re sitting across from each other and Chase starts saying racist words like “spearchucker”, “jungle bunny”, etc. Pryor responds with things like “cracker”, “peckerwood”, etc. It escalates until Chase says “n****r” to which Pryor immediatly reacts with “dead honkey”. Even as young as I was the visceral reaction that Pryor’s character had to that made it clear that it was a word which could really upset people, and was not to be used lightly. There was a difference between it and things like “fuck” and “shit”.
In my opinion it is a shame that n****r has become a word which is acceptable when used by one group of people, but grounds for, justifiable, public embarassment a la kev_jh@yahoo.com for everyone else. It’s a double standard which cheapens the meaning of the word, and gives people too easy of an out when called for using it. “But they say it! Why can’t I?”
SFC B – I grew up in Central PA as well. We actually had 2 Africa-American and 1 Pacific Rim families in our school, so I grew up a little more diverse than you. Heard the same word used for boomboxes. Wonder if it was local to us, or more widely used.
“But they say it! Why can’t I?”
Because you’re a douchebag if you do.
Because you’re a douchebag if you do.
Not the word I’d use, (douchebag, that is) but someone using that excuse isn’t fooling anyone, and is probably worse than a douchebag and more of an out and out racist.
A douchebag would be more along the lines of someone who calls someone else a racist just for no other reason other than he likes doing it.
SFC B, it’s time for us too have the same little sit down talk with you about your use of the word ‘fag’.
Careful, Michael. SFC B might be gay, and therefore exempt from criticism for using language that would be offensive if NOT uttered by a protected class.
What intrigues me is what happens when two protected classes clash. During California’s recent gay marriage brouhaha, there were gays on one side and a lot of blacks on the other. What would have happened if they’d started tossing around F-words and N-words?
Fortunately, a solution was found. Blame the Mormons!
It was reminiscent of how, historically, the Germans and the Russians have managed to avoid conflict by agreeing to beat up the Poles and/or the Jews…
J.
Fortunately, a solution was found. Blame the Mormons!
It was reminiscent of how, historically, the Germans and the Russians have managed to avoid conflict by agreeing to beat up the Poles and/or the Jews…
Difference being, of course, that said Poles and Jews really hadn’t done anything to deserve getting beat up for.
And the Mormans did?
Also reminiscent of how the white North and South managed to avoid conflict after the Civil War by agreeing to screw over the…
“Amused Observer”: “And the Mormans did?”
The complaint against Mormon’s is that their church spent millions of out of state money and coordinated ground troops to work against gay marriage in California in 2008.
Some folk are touchy about having their human rights withheld in the 21st century.
But, hey, Mormons like Republican Mitt Romney were told as recently as 1978 that dark skin was the sign of the devil, so, culturally speaking, Mormon beliefs can change on a dime, it just takes their Supreme
LeaderProphet toput out a fatwadictate new beliefs and Mormons like Republican Mitt Romney will suddenly believe something new.Ol’ kev_jh@yahoo.com must not have gotten Lee Atwater’s memo. Nice bunch.
Whether or not the Mormons took a stance on gay marriage is not the point. The point is that they were hardly the most influential bloc on the issue. Black and Hispanic churches had a hell of a lot more influence, and they got a bye. But Mormons… hoo boy, they got it good.
J.
And the Mormans did?<
Some folks would think so.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Mormons who didn’t reside in California took it upon themselves to finance a political measure there that didn’t affect them in the slightest.
Real justice would involve Californians financing the establishment of a rival church in Utah that made gay marriage a cornerstone of its theology.
LDS was the most successful religious con game in history, requiring tortured interpretation of the screed they base it on in order to maintain cognitive dissonance. Scientologists are jealous.
Remember that cartoon that Oliver had up a while ago about mormon’s views about black people? That stuff didn’t enter the church canon until they got to pro-slavery Missouri.
“I’m gonna start a religion. That’s where the money is.”
-L.Ron Hubbard
Get it right Muffin. I said “cockfag”. And thanks to your scolding I’ve already had that come-to-Jeebus moment and no longer fear Teh Gayness. I have even considered checking out the reformed No Doubt. I’d really think that you’d be more welcoming of someone who has seen the light and is now a fellow homophile.
However you are still a cockfag for not helping your brother and his family.
Repack,
And yet the majority of your fellow Californians agreed with the premise of Prop 8. Do you think thier minds were already made up or were changed by the advertising.
You’re right, AO. Advertising never works on anyone, to any end. That’s why there are no longer commercials advertising beer, cars, fast food, or political candidates. Good point.
Idiot.
And for those of you who complain that one segment of the population (black people) can “appropriately” use the word “nigger”, while the rest of the population cannot… well, your complaints demonstrate that you have little understanding of the historical significance of that word. Either that, or you don’t give a shit about the historical significance of the word.
Either you’re ignorant or a jackass. Or both.
Funny, weren’t a LOT of people all over the country contributing and weighing in on the gay marriage issue in California? I know a lot of out-of-state interests spent a lot of money here in New Hampshire when we recently passed a gay marriage law.
The treatment of individual Mormons — not the Church itself — came damned close to a hate crime.
Back to the asshole at hand… Kev, you’re still an asshole. And I dunno why Oliver felt the need to single this asshole out. I am curious as to where he left his little turds, though…
J.
SFC – I appreciated your story. I had a similar session with my mom at a very early age – her line was ‘if you use words like that, people will think you’re stupid.’ Worked for me!
Now, of course, I’m all grown up, married to a black man, with two adopted black sons, so clearly I must have learned _something_.
My family wasn’t native to that part of PA, they were originally from the “big city” of Pittsburgh, and the neighborhood they lived in had a mix of races. Also, my dad spent two tours in Vietnam and was in a unit with a number of Marines who were black (I didn’t learn that until this year when I received a few packages of his letters to his parents, which included pictures). My parents didn’t learn their sensitivity to n****r from their parents. None of my grandparents will be winning any awards from the NAACP this year. Interestingly, to me at least, my paternal grandfather has no problems using the word n****r, but he will only use it when referring to blacks he considered lazy back when he lived in the Caribbean in the 30s and 40s. Any other black person from any other time he will refer to as black, or some other less incendiary term.
Please Mambochicken. Enlighten those of us who are ignorant. Explain to why it is that a word which has been viewed as a perjorative since at least the early 1900′s in the country, is perfectly fine when said between people of the same race, and why it is a word which will get people from any other race fired.
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f02d0b8cca/word-association-from-nino
Found the clip to which I was referring earlier. For some reason I remembers it being a darker background. My favorite part is when Pryor’s character has to respond to “tarbaby” and just can’t believe that he’s being asked that in a word association thing.
SFC, don’t be stupid. You know why it’s okay for some people to say it and not others.
It’s like me making fun of other white guys for being bad dancers with no rhythm. That’s pretty acceptable, as I am a white guy. However, if a black person makes fun of a white person for the same reason, that’s more offensive. It’s an in-group/out-group thing. Simple social psych stuff here.
Now take the above example, and multiply the effect by a thousand because of the historical significance of the pejorative, and there’s your answer. It’s not fucking rocket surgery.
Funny, weren’t a LOT of people all over the country contributing and weighing in on the gay marriage issue in California?
A friend of mine put it very succinctly w/r/t the Mormon financial push to help pass a law that affected them not in the slightest.
“Oh wow, you have six million dollars. I thought you’d want to use that money to do something like help starving children NOT die, but fuck them, right?”
I can make a guess as to why some folks think it’s okay. And I suppose you could get into a debate about the difference between calling someone a n****r and a n***a.
Or the punchline for every comedian to appear on Comedy Central throughout the 90′s.
But in groups and out groups can be extremely flexible. Disregarding my personal experience with the word, knowing the historical meaning of n****r, as I do now, means I would never use it to refer to someone. Even in a hypothetical situation where, say, a close black friend would even give me permission to use it in reference to them.
Also, speaking of simple social psych stuff, if an in-group is using n****r openly and without repercussion, shouldn’t it be expected that other groups would adopt it as well?
Honestly, I think the “You can’t say it because you can’t understand” type of defense for using n****r is weak.
It’s like me making fun of other white guys for being bad dancers with no rhythm. That’s pretty acceptable, as I am a white guy. However, if a black person makes fun of a white person for the same reason, that’s more offensive.
Yeah, bad example mambo. See Will Smith in “Hitch.”
It was reminiscent of how, historically, the Germans and the Russians have managed to avoid conflict by agreeing to beat up the Poles and/or the Jews…
We have a new winner for single stupidest fucking comment Jay Tea has ever posted. Congratulations, Jay Tea.
“Also, speaking of simple social psych stuff, if an in-group is using n****r openly and without repercussion, shouldn’t it be expected that other groups would adopt it as well?”
My point exactly.
“Honestly, I think the “You can’t say it because you can’t understand” type of defense for using n****r is weak.”
Very weak. It wasn’t just black kids buying all those rap records.
A friend of mine put it very succinctly w/r/t the Mormon financial push to help pass a law that affected them not in the slightest.
“Oh wow, you have six million dollars. I thought you’d want to use that money to do something like help starving children NOT die, but fuck them, right?”
Interesting thought, SpiderJ. A few major holes in it, though.
1) Full Faith and Credit clause. Should DOMA be repealed or ruled unconstitutional, gay marriage in one state will pretty much mean gay marriage in all states.
B) The same reasoning about spending money applies to everyone who contributed to the fight in California, not just the Mormons.
III) If it’s their money, it’s theirs to spend any way they wish. If you don’t approve, then you don’t approve — but your disapproval doesn’t mean anything. They don’t owe you a single word of explanation.
I agreed with the Mormons (as well as with a lot of black and Hispanic churches) in California, but not for their reasons. I support gay marriage — but only when it’s passed in a free and democratic process, as has been done in several states here in New England, including my own New Hampshire. The way it was done in Massachusetts and California was wrong.
J.
My god your little muffin routine is moronic. It’s like watching an incredibly uncomfortable comedian jump carry on with no response. But then self-awareness is clearly not your strong suit.
Oh, for fuck’s sake. This is idiotic. I can’t believe that we’re actually having this conversation.
1) I would be more offended if a black person made fun of me for being stereotypically white than if a white person did the same thing. Another good example – girls often joke with each other and call each other “bitch” or other terms in friendly conversation. However, as a white male, do you think that I am afforded the same allowance? Fuck no. If I called the same girl a bitch I probably get slapped.
2) My example re: white people is but a fucking tiny drop in the bucket compared to the examples of the term “n****r”.
3) “Also, speaking of simple social psych stuff, if an in-group is using n****r openly and without repercussion, shouldn’t it be expected that other groups would adopt it as well?”
Idiot. No. Black people co-opted the use of the word from its roots as a term from their oppressors. There’s no mirror reason for whites or Asians to use said term. Blacks are a part of the in-group for which the term has relevance. Anyone else, not so much.
4) AO, you’re too stupid to live. You don’t think that advertising works. Enough said.
By that logic any black person should be able to call any other black person n****r without worrying about it offending them. And yet, somehow, that isn’t the case. Plenty of black people think that n****r is just as hurtful coming from another black person as from a white or Hispanic.
This also get into the topic of who is black enough to use it. Would recent African immigrant blacks like Somalis not be allowed to use it as they didn’t co-op the word from their oppressors given that the Europeans who did get involved in Somalia didn’t use the word n****r? What about blacks from mixed-race couples? Do you need to be more than 50% black to be able to use n****r? 75%? 25%? Can I do something like Ward Churchill and get a membership card to become black enough to use it?
With the current use of n****r and its derivities in pop culture, it shouldn’t be surprising that it is losing some of its impact as a shocking word. The simple fact is that if it is going to be okay for one poorly defined group to use it, it will become okay for other groups to use it. The question is whether that is something people are going to want. Clearly it is a word which our host doesn’t approve of with his outing of the email address of someone who was using it.
I think getting Mr. Willis’ opinion on Mambochicken’s assumption that it’s acceptable for black to use n****r would be interesting.
Interesting thought, SpiderJ. So interesting, in fact, it sailed completely over my head.
“By that logic any black person should be able to call any other black person n****r without worrying about it offending them.”
This is only true if all black people thought about this issue the exact same way.
SOME blacks co-opted the word and are ok with using it. SOME didn’t. And therefore SOME are ok with using it and SOME aren’t. Same goes for any other pejorative term referring to a class of people.
So if SOME non-blacks were to refer to SOME blacks using n****r in its co-opted meaning, then it would be perfectly fine? Even though it is a word which you need to “multiply the effect by a thousand because of the historical significance of the pejorative” when compared to similar perjoratives about other races?
@ SFC B
“Plenty of black people think that n****r is just as hurtful coming from another black person as from a white or Hispanic.”
As a black person, I can tell you this is just flat out wrong. I personally take offense to the term coming from anyone, but the difference is this:
Black person + saying “n****r” to me = reasoned discussion on why we should not use that word
White person + saying “n****r” to me = potential reactive chin check
Dunno. That’s just how it is. Just slightly worse than folks stating platitudes about what “plenty of black people think”. Your frame of reference is non-existent.
“So if SOME non-blacks were to refer to SOME blacks using n****r in its co-opted meaning, then it would be perfectly fine?”
SFC B:
I didn’t say whether I thought black people using the n-word was fine or not; I was merely pointing out that your logic was flawed.
To recap: Your logic was that since some black people decided to co-opt the n-word from their oppressors, then all black people must therefore be ok with saying it to each other. I still think that’s faulty logic.
I notice that you quoted another poster and seemed to apply the belief to me or to my position on this matter (even though I never stated a position). So perhaps this is a common issue with you: if one person believes something, all similar people (in this case, OW.com commenters?) must also believe it.