Cowboy diplomacy is over.
Lots more here.
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Video: Obama Discusses The Iranian Issue
June 15th, 2009
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I like that….I really like that.
Cowboy diplomacy is over.
True dat.
Because, for the most part, when a cowboy speaks, it’s clear what he’s saying and that he means it.
Here, Mr. Articulate And Intelligent and Grownup had over 40 “uh’s” and “um’s” in four and a half minutes. Which is about what I can do, and I suck at public speaking.
So we’re “troubled” that the Iranian thugs are beating protesters, and quite likely have killed many. But we respect Iranian sovereignty. And the young people of Iran should know that… well, we don’t hate them.
We could be seeing the seeds of a “people’s revolution” here like the Philippines or Romania had, and we have President Stumblemouth spouting meaningless platitudes. Oh, joy.
J.
Yes, because what the opposition in Iran needs is to be seen as a tool of America. That always works out great.
Cowboy diplomacy, as the last president practiced, was fail fail fail. The foreign policy you and your ilk cheered on led to disaster on every front. And more dead Americans.
Well… um… with that… er… being said… um… I must say that — that — for us to stand by and… um… do nothing, to let… er… three days of… uh… fighting in the streets…. ah… amid flagrant evidence of voter fraud… er… certainly is the… um… wise and mature and prudent approach.
Man, it looks like Joe Biden did more damage to the teleprompter than we first thought.
“Is there an A/V Club member in the house?”
J.
I know it’s a bit jarring to hear a President who thinks before he speaks, Jay, but do try to get used to it. Because unlike cowboys, the President prefers not to shoot from the hip.
I mean, seriously. You’re now whining about the president’s verbal tics? That’s the best you’ve got? Grow up, already!
Yeah, complaining about speech patterns is so last year. New, more idiotic complaints please.
Boone is allowed to critique verbal tics anymore? Seriously?
It’s like the last 8 years of …
Nucular
Strategery
Democrat party
Won’t get fooled again
OBGYNs practicing their love
… never happened
Wrong Oliver. Silverspoon, Connecticut, Andover schooled, dry drunk diplomacy is over.
and we have President Stumblemouth spouting meaningless platitudes.
No, he’s been out of office since January. Haven’t you been reading the news?
Obama chooses his words carefully. When it comes to statements made by powerful politicians, I’m far less interested in style than in substance. And particularly where the high-tension politics of another country are concerned, the need for diplomatic language is paramount. It’s not waffling, it’s not spineless — it’s measured speech. And yes, Jay Tea, it’s what grown-ups do. Particularly grown-ups who are responsible for the welfare of a nation, and who have higher priorities than scoring machismo points.
Tens of thousands of protesters beaten.
A stolen election, obvious within minutes of the physically impossible results
Our government praising the” vigorous debate and enthusiasm that this election generated, particularly among young Iranians.”
Iraq: Free and fair elections
Yea, “cowboy” diplomacy epic fail. Well, for everyone but the Iraqis.
I’m on pins and needles waiting to see what straw Jay Tea will grasp for next?
Four months of Obama has accomplished a lot more in terms of potentially stabilizing the Middle East than eight years of Bush did. It would be unbecoming of Obama to say a whole lot at this point, since the Iranian mullahs would love it if he would inject himself and America’s interests into the on-going struggle.
This is what it looks like when adults conduct diplomacy. Sometimes you have to wait and see, not to mention conduct behind the scenes, low-level diplomacy that none of us are actively aware of.
As Jay wipes the neocon spittle from his computer screen, I think he actually knows this. It just means he needs to throw out his GOP talking points even faster. There are millions of Iranians who want to modernize, secularize, and possibly even Westernize their country. Threatening them with bombing only plays directly into the mullahs’ hands as they whip up the hardcore religious Iranians through fear of America.
Not that a stolen election is ever pretty, but the reason so many Iranians wanted to dump Ahmedinijad is because they want their country to liberalize and modernize. This is important to keep in mind.
“cowboy” diplomacy epic fail. Well, for everyone but the Iraqis.
Except for the tens of thousands of dead Iraqis caused by cowboy diplomacy, and the complete destruction of everything in the country that worked.
What kind of a person considers tens of thousands of needless deaths a “success?” Are you even human?
I cannot fathom the depth of depravity and cruelty it took to make your statement. How much hatred do you carry for people who have not harmed you, and who probably just wanted to do something productive every day and love their families?
‘Because, for the most part, when a cowboy speaks, it’s clear what he’s saying and that he means it.’
Like ‘The United States does not torture.’
Or ‘The insurgency is in its last throes, if you will.’
Really J, your man-love for Bush is just sad….not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Needless?
Really?
How much hatred do you have for people who have a right to be free? Are you so craven that you will tolerate having your daughters taken from the streets and raped at will by the government?
Craven enough to stand back silently while the government runs prisons designed strictly to torture children in front of their parents.
I would die a thousand times to prevent that.
The only sign of depravity I see is someone who wouldn’t be willing to lift a finger to prevent what I just described.
I don’t count death in the pursuit of freedom needless. God help your withered soul if you do, coward.
‘So we’re “troubled” that the Iranian thugs are beating protesters, and quite likely have killed many. But we respect Iranian sovereignty. And the young people of Iran should know that… well, we don’t hate them.
We could be seeing the seeds of a “people’s revolution” here like the Philippines or Romania had, and we have President Stumblemouth spouting meaningless platitudes. Oh, joy.’
I suppose you prefer the kind of altruistic intervention Dumbya pulled off in Iraq? “We’ve invaded and destroyed your nation in order to save you from the dictator we implanted and supported for decades; no, no, don’t bother to thank us.”
Is that the kind of articulate support you’re referring to?
“Because, for the most part, when a cowboy speaks, it’s clear what he’s saying and that he means it.”
Um, “Mission Accomplished”?
‘Man, it looks like Joe Biden did more damage to the teleprompter than we first thought.’
Yah; it’s all part of the sublimibal left wing conspiracy that prevents GNYB’s from practicing their love for women all across the country.
You CAN’T seriously be suggesting that Obama is less articulate than Gee Dumbya?
Even YOU can’t be that fucking far from reality.
And the mission was accomplished….for the crew of the USS Abraham Lincoln, who had just completed the longest wartime deployment in the history of carrier aviation.
Oh yea, and we took over more territory, with the least number of casualties (allied and Iraqi) in the shortest period of time in the history of Man. Another “mission accomplished”.
‘Iraq: Free and fair elections
Yea, “cowboy” diplomacy epic fail. Well, for everyone but the Iraqis.’
OMFG; there’s so much wrong with that idiotic statement, it’s hard to imagine you could even pretend to believe it.
‘How much hatred do you have for people who have a right to be free? Are you so craven that you will tolerate having your daughters taken from the streets and raped at will by the government?’
Where’s your proof of that absurd statement?
You do know Saddam was supported by the US for decades right? If Iraqis have a right to be free, what the fuck are 150,000 US forces doing occupying the country?
‘Craven enough to stand back silently while the government runs prisons designed strictly to torture children in front of their parents.’
Sounds a lot like Abu Ghraib; you do see how this DOESN’T make your point don’t you?
Maybe you should just stop now.
God help your withered soul if you do, coward.
I’m a US Army vet E-5, assho!e. Which branch of the military did you serve in?
‘Oh yea, and we took over more territory, with the least number of casualties (allied and Iraqi) in the shortest period of time in the history of Man. Another “mission accomplished”.’
You must be out of your mind to consider Iraq a success in any way, shape or form.
Ask an Iraqi their thoughts on that ridiculous statement, then get ready to dodge some shoes.
Yea, figured that would be your fallback “argument” RR
2 year, draftee…you’re my hero.
Unfortunately too cowardly to fight for anyones freedom though, just not worth the cost eh?
More than a decade USN, 0-5.
Do I win?
“And the mission was accomplished”
Bush wasn’t addressing the crew of that ship, he was addressing the world. You aren’t that dumb, are you?
“Oh yea, and we took over more territory”
Yeah, miles up miles of desert. That was a real accomplishment.
The point of the invasion was to keep Saddam from using WMD that he didn’t even have.
US troops did their jobs, no doubt. Their leadership under Bush and Cheney absolutely failed them. And managed to bankrupt the country at the same time.
Mission Accomplished.
Here funkenstein, don’t believe me, believe scott ritter, hero to the left and enemy of all Bush….
The prison in question is at the General Security Services headquarters, which was inspected by my team in Jan. 1998. It appeared to be a prison for children — toddlers up to pre-adolescents — whose only crime was to be the offspring of those who have spoken out politically against the regime of Saddam Hussein. It was a horrific scene. Actually I’m not going to describe what I saw there because what I saw was so horrible that it can be used by those who would want to promote war with Iraq, and right now I’m waging peace.
Just one more useful idiot. Keep up the good work Funkenstein, the worlds facscist dictators still need all your love and support
Unfortunately too cowardly to fight for anyones freedom though, just not worth the cost eh?
Yeah, the Vietnamese were so grateful for my service, and we were so successful there. No one called me a coward then.
Why don’t you tell me WTF we accomplished in Vietnam at the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, 20,000 dead Americans and hundreds of thousands of dead Vietamese?
You can’t fight for someone else’s freedom, only your own. Anything else is colonization with a pretty name.
Your slur on my courage is based on exactly what facts that you know about my life? I was a medic. My service was honorable and I made all the rank possible in the time I served. How much blood did you get on your boots in the Navy? How many people did you watch die from really close up?
Ah RR. I guarantee you I had more blood on me in one night than you had on you in your whole career, GSW where blood loss was measured in liters, and you could tell how much you lost when it started to drain out the doors to the OR.
And if by watching people die close up includes having them die with your hands between their ribs giving open-heart massage, then yup, got the t-shirt….you have NO idea son.
Well, I will tell you one think our cut and run from Vietnam DIDN’T do, it didn’t do a lick of good for the genocide that occurred in cambodia after the liberals forced us out of the war. The 3 million dead doesn’t come up much on liberal websites when talking about vietnam does it?
Well, I will tell you one think our cut and run from Vietnam DIDN’T do, it didn’t do a lick of good for the genocide that occurred in cambodia after the liberals forced us out of the war.
I guess you must have read about that stuff, because you don’t have any goddamn idea, and we are done.
“Well, I will tell you one think our cut and run from Vietnam DIDN’T do, it didn’t do a lick of good for the genocide that occurred in cambodia after the liberals forced us out of the war. The 3 million dead doesn’t come up much on liberal websites when talking about vietnam does it?”
Oh fuck off.
Fucking around in Cambodia is what started the genocide, and Liberals are not to blame for that. Once the bombing runs started, there was no way to stop that from happening with the resources you had at the time.
Getting the fuck out of the region before you were able to destabilize more countries was a good thing.
I wonder if Usualgenius can tell us how many Vietnamese we’d have had to kill before they’d start to like us. Or how many Iranians, for that matter.
The Cambodian Genocide had more to do with Kissinger, and Kissinger is no liberal.
But I’d love to hear your take on all those fascist dictators we supported in the 70’s and 80’s in Central America, South America, Africa, and the Middle East.
(And still do today in Egypt and Pakistan.)
Many times over the last 8 years I wished George W. Bush had been more deliberate in his words and speech:
Jaim said:
Four months of Obama has accomplished a lot more in terms of potentially stabilizing the Middle East than eight years of Bush did.
If potential is the gold standard here, then Bush did a hell of a lot more, by overthrowing a dictator and potentially bringing about the world’s first Arab Muslim democracy in the heart of the Middle East. He potentially put every other Arab Muslim dictator on notice that their hold on power was very, very tenuous, and potentially made them consider mending their ways.
My, what a handy word “potential” is…
J.
LOL. Bush actually oversaw the slaughter of tens of thousands of Iraqis. He oversaw the rise of Iran as the Middle East’s primary power after Israel. He oversaw the rise of Iran’s great Shia ally Iraq (al-Maliki and Ahmedinijad are best friends). He oversaw an election in which Hezbollah actually won, despite the fact that Condi Rice wasn’t even paying attention since she was convinced they would lose.
I could go on Jay. Fact is, just as with the economy, American had eight years of a Republican president. They got a) 9/11, b) a nuclear North Korea, c) failed occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan and d) o worsening situation globally for American interests. In the reality-based world of adult Americans, GOP president and Congress equals mega-fail every time, at least since about 1989.
But keep spitting out those Republican talking points champ. Lots of good they’ll do you and your dying party.
But thanks for playing and losing once again.
“potentially bringing about the world’s first Arab Muslim democracy in the heart of the Middle East”
Wouldn’t that be Turkey? Or possibly Lebanon?
Jaim, I don’t recall Turkey being overly Arabic, or Lebanon being overly Democratic. I realize you don’t hear much, with your head up your ass so much, but Lebanese democracy has a few challenges — called “Syria” and “Iran” and their terrorist proxies they sponsor.
J.
You’re the one throwing out vague triumphalist definitions of how Iraq is the first Democracy outside Israel in that part of the world. I’m simply telling you that many Turks and Lebanese would disagree. Even Iran just had an election and we’re waiting to see if the Moussavi supporters will get a recount.
But if you want to set the bar for legitimate, almost fully transparent Western-style democracies like the US, then indeed, thanks for making my point — Iraq is a total and utter failure thanks to George Bush and his moronic supporters like yourself.
But Iraq potentially could have been a great triumph, Jaim. That’s the standard you set when you first opened your trap.
My point — which apparently flew right over your head — is that “potential” is quite possibly the ultimate weasel word. I didn’t argue with your assessment of Obama’s performance so far, only noted how utterly meaningless and empty it was.
Much like Obama’s Middle East policy so far. “Treat our enemies like friends, and our friends like enemies.”
Well, in the words of a certain James T. Kirk, “it has the advantage of never having been tried.”
J.
Four months of Obama has accomplished a lot more in terms of potentially stabilizing the Middle East than eight years of Bush did.
Alternately, four months of Obama has potentially brought us a hell of a lot closer to a nuclear genocide in the Middle East, with hundreds of millions dead, than eight years of Bush’s “war-mongering.”
Just as accurate, just as defensible, just as meaningless.
J.
“But Iraq potentially could have been a great triumph, Jaim. That’s the standard you set when you first opened your trap.”
Um, no. That’s a word I used in light of the situation going on in Iran right now. It’ll be a little while before we know how it plays out and, unlike Bush and people like you, international diplomacy is about what facts are on the ground, not what you wish they were.
Right now we’ve got massive pro-democracy riots going on in Iran. This was unthinkable a few years ago when the hard-line mullahs were scaring Iranians with talk of an American invasion and/or bombing campaign out of Iraq. This is called progress, albeit violent progress as of now.
“Treat our enemies like friends, and our friends like enemies.”
Has Obama sent military aid to Iran? No. Has he launched attacks against Israel? No. So kindly shut the fuck up, dumbass. He has made signals that Israel will have to finally deal with their illegal settlements. This isn’t treating a friend like an enemy, this is treating them like someone who should follow the rule of law.
After a mere four months of an Obama presidency, and with over seven years to go, I’m personally hopeful we’ll see a truly more peaceful and democratic Middle East (as opposed to the unmitigated clusterfuck we got thanks to a botched occupation of Iraq). But but you know the people who are also feeling more optimistic? Iranians, despite the short-term difficulties of dealing with an authoritarian regime that finally — after eight years of Bush fail — shows signs of cracking.
As I’ve said before, Americans are happy to have adults back in charge of our foreign policy. Little bedwetters like you will continue to crap the sheets while the world advances in a positive and more peaceful direction.
“Alternately, four months of Obama has potentially brought us a hell of a lot closer to a nuclear genocide in the Middle East, with hundreds of millions dead, than eight years of Bush’s “war-mongering.”
Iran did more nuclear research in four months of Obama than they did in eight years of Bush?
You. Are. Dumb.
Wow, JayTea’s really trying to use to twist the actual definition of the word potential. Using his definition, there is the _potential_ that Mandy Moore will be naked in my bed tomorrow night.
You wanna bet your life against it, Jesse?
“Potential,” in all its variants, is quite possibly the greatest of all weasel words. (”Possibly” is another.) Utterly impervious to disproving. It’s meaningless.
J.
He talked the BIG TALK in Cairo and injected himself into the situation with both feet. Now that $hit has hit the fan, he takes the position that Iran must resolve their own problems.
The signal sent is: Y’ALL ARE ON YOUR OWN.
Pussy diplomacy is alive and living in the White House.
Everyone in the entire world apart from Jay and his fellow dead-enders seems to understand that there is more intelligence, thoughtfulness and statesmanship in just one of Obama’s “um’s” than there is in everything that GWB said in his entire miserable career put together.
Pussy diplomacy is alive and living in the White House.
Dumbfuckitude is alive and well in joaquin’s head.
On the one hand we have democratically elected Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu, who on Sunday abandoned his own long-held position and, to the huge disappointment of much of his political base, spoke of his willingness to accept a Palestinian state — provided that the Palestinians give-up military pursuits, resettle Palestinian refugees in their own territory, and recognize Israel as a Jewish state.
On the other hand there’s Iranian President Ahmadinejad, Holocaust-denier,military nuclear power aspirant, and hater of anything West, who on Friday declared himself the winner of a rigged election. Since Friday, scores of opposition politicians have been arrested, intimidated, rallies have been banned, protesters have been shot and the possibility of an Iranian Tiananmen is but a foregone conclusion.
Question Wilbur 1138: Which one of these two leaders in getting the Obama beat-down???
joaquin, you’ve just discovered the Obama Doctrine: treat your friends like enemies, and your enemies like friends!
It was crafted by a subset of Underwear Gnomes infesting the State Department, who moved there from Chicago…
J.
‘Just one more useful idiot. Keep up the good work Funkenstein, the worlds facscist dictators still need all your love and support’
YOU’RE the one supporting the illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq by Bush under utterly false pretenses.
How democratic does an 8 year invasion and occupation of a country that didn’t attack the US sound to you genius?
treat your friends like enemies, and your enemies like friends!
The overriding principle of conservatism is to just say shit. Not that it has to make any sense mind you, just say stuff.
The idea here is that Israel is a fully grown and functioning democracy capable of the give and take of international diplomacy. They know we’ve always got their back so they have to start bringing something to the table.
In the case of Iran, the Bush policy of neglect and antagonism helped push hardliners like Adhjamenidad into power – and helped to keep them there. President Obama has clearly staked out a different path of not being a dick while also making it clear Iran needs to clean up its act.
Its called leadership.
four months of Obama has potentially brought us a hell of a lot closer to a nuclear genocide in the Middle East,
Can you explain that? Or were you just taking your talking points out for a little air?
joaquin, you’ve just discovered the Obama Doctrine: treat your friends like enemies, and your enemies like friends!
Another, and far more accurate, way to put this is “keep your friends close and your enemies closer.”
Question Wilbur 1138: Which one of these two leaders in getting the Obama beat-down???
Question, joaquin: which one of these two leaders is more likely to modify his position in response to an Obama “beat-down” (read, gentle pressure), and which is more likely to be strengthened and further radicalized by it? Eight years of empty “beat-down” rhetoric from Bush & co. only gave fuel to the Ahmadinejads of the world. Five months of Obama and Ahmadinejad and the mullahs are resorting to patently bogus elections to cling to power over an increasingly empowered and west-friendly populace.
International relations is not a matter for six-year-olds, or for grown-ups with six-year-old mentalities.
You all need to wipe that Kool-Aid from your chins.
Oliver said: “They know we’ve always got their (Israel) back”
Yeah right! I have daily contact with Israeli businessmen here in the US.
Oliver you need to get out more or you’ll continue to make a fool of yourself with those comments.
‘joaquin, you’ve just discovered the Obama Doctrine: treat your friends like enemies, and your enemies like friends!’
Sure beats the Bush doctrine; treat EVERYONE like enemies, even your own countrymen who dare to disagree with you.
Can’t imagine how that could be seen as divisive or unproductive.
‘Yeah right! I have daily contact with Israeli businessmen here in the US.’
So, Israeli businessmen and companies engaged in DAILY enterprises with American companies and their employees such as yourself, are not convinced the US supports Israel?
Huh?
Oh jrfunk, I see that one sailed right over your head.
four months of Obama has potentially brought us a hell of a lot closer to a nuclear genocide in the Middle East,
Can you explain that? Or were you just taking your talking points out for a little air?
Completely out of the air, Quaker — which you’d have understood if you’d kept reading what I wrote:
In comparison, of course, to Jaim’s initial statement:
You see, Quaker, it occasionally pays to read the entire comment… and the entire thread.
J.
Oliver, the “Obama Doctrine” I outlined describes how Obama has treated Israel, Great Britain, Iran, and North Korea, among others.
I’m thinking of expanding on the notion. It seems to apply pretty well…
J.
I see. Just out for a stroll then?
Reading and paying attention are wonderful traits, Quaker.
joaquin,
Were you aware that it’s possible to urinate upward along a length of stout hemp rope?
Go give it a try.
To the Imperialists on this blog –
MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS. GOD IS DEAD AND MANIFEST DESTINY IS OVER. ROME IS FALLING.
Do everybody a favour and fall gracefully.
For fuck’s sake, how many billions of dollars in aid does the US give Israel every year? They’re the largest receiver of American aid in the entire world.
And you accuse me of weasel words? When you’re trying to argue that Obama has somehow kicked the Israelis to the curb?
Call me when he goes to Congress and asks them to cut aid to Israel. Here’s a hint, sparky — it ain’t going to happen.
He’s simply asking Israel to roll back the illegal settlements. How is this treating them like the enemy?
When you’re trying to argue that Obama has somehow kicked the Israelis to the curb?
It’s pretty clear that for the conservative mind, this seems to be the equation:
Blind support = “ally”
Anything other than blind support = “Kicking to the curb”
Jaim,
Why don’t you expand on Kissenger’s role in the Killing Fields?
AO, why don’t you read a book by noted conservative and pro-Iraqi occupation author Christopher Hitchens:
http://www.amazon.com/Trial-Henry-Kissinger-Christopher-Hitchens/dp/1859843980
I know Hitch has a hard on for Kissenger. I’m not disputing your claim but I am interested in how our cut and run from Viet Nam and the subsequent killing of asians by asians that happened after we left was a Kissenger thing. Well I did a little googling and most of Hitch’s bitching seems to be about South America not Northern Viet Nam.
And before you go off the rails about Cambodia and Northern Viet Nam being different places that is where they were camping out.
‘Oh jrfunk, I see that one sailed right over your head.’
Uh, no it didn’t; like most of your posts it just didn’t make any fucking sense.
But don’t let that stop you from throwing more nonsense out there.
‘He’s simply asking Israel to roll back the illegal settlements. How is this treating them like the enemy?’
Because unlike Bush, Obama isn’t prepared to just sit back and tolerate Israel doing anything it wants, and then happily ignore the consequences.