Clearly this is the fault of Barack Obama’s socialism.
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June 12th, 2009
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LOL,
Oliver is grasping at straws for this Obamagram.
If you read the article the closest it comes to Obama is regarding the inflationary pressures that his never before imagined projected deficit fuels.
“But stocks have struggled this week as rising Treasury yields and higher commodity prices have fueled worries that inflation could choke off any early signs of recovery. And economic reports that meet expectations may no longer be enough to further stock gains”
Oliver is grasping at straws for this Obamagram.
Actually I’m pointing at you con idiots and laughing. Of course the Dow is not a good measure of any sort for the health of the economy, but the conserverative-msm axis insisted for months after inauguration that the drop in the Dow meant Obama was destroying capitalism. So the rise must mean…
Off topic, Oliver. But the “Hostway” add has been consistantly blocking the first story in the column for the last couple of days.
When I try to either move it or close it, I can’t. It’s very frustrating.
Otherwise, I love the site.
Hoo boy. Grasping at straws, and then straw-man.
Well its good you’re laughing, ignorance is bliss. Capitalism is the private control of the means of production, socialism strictly speaking is the public control of the means of production. Your exaulted Obama has taken the largest steps towards socialism since FDR.
Socialism is usually (always) associated with increasing public subsidies for individual responsibilities. Higher taxes are required to pay for increased public sector responsibility for what were once regarded as the business of the individual. There is a tendency to get less of what you tax and more of what you subsidize.
Inflation is a monetary condition. It is the traditional way for a government to make good on a check it can’t cash. Obama’s projected levels of government debt make the threat of inflation more likely.
So laugh at your own peril, a weeks rally in the market is not much to pin your hopes on. Economic gears often grind slowly but they almost always grind fine. If it can’t go on forever, it won’t. (See California)
Amused Observer: “LOL,”
Laughing simpleton.
“Oliver is grasping at straws for this Obamagram.”
Are you really this fucking stupid?
“So laugh at your own peril, a weeks rally in the market is not much to pin your hopes on.”
Yes. Yes you really are this fucking stupid.
For years the Right was saying record stock market levels showed how Bush was a great president, and when Obama took over, suddenly low stock market levels were a sign Obama was bad for the economy.
Now that the stock market levels have bounced back (albeit temporarily) you don’t hear the same arguments coming from the right.
It’s almost as if the right doesn’t give a fuck about reality, only what they can use politically.
Oliver even said using the stock market was a bad gauge for the economy, but this shows the hypocrisy of the right wingers.
the right doesn’t give a fuck about reality, only what they can use politically.
Yes, conservatism cannot fail, it can only be failed, and then only by the sanctioned failers.
“One of the very difficult parts of the decision I made on the financial crisis was to use hardworking people’s money to help prevent there to be a crisis.” –George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 12, 2009
FAIL!
Wow,
You two are delusional. Oliver makes a crack about the dow and Obaba’s socialism and links an article. As usual, his lede and the article linked have little to do with each other.
Obama is leading us in the direction of socialism, towards an increasing public sector control of the means of production. It has already happened, its a fact on the ground. He could conceivably lead us back towards capitalism but I’m not holding my breathe.
What was funny about Olivers choice of articles though was the indirect reference to Obama’s huge projected deficet and its inflationary effect. Bush spent too much money, the only thing in his favor is he spent less than the Democrats would have. Wars don’t come cheap but he managed to make wars look like chump change compared to Obama’s projected budget.
What I don’t understand is the rabid hostility my northern neighbor. Perhaps antidepresants might help. It can’t be much fun going through life perpetually outraged. Its summer, enjoy the weather, don’t get so shook up over things happening in a foriegn country.
As you’ve stated the Canadians didn’t jump feet first into the folly of baby boomers faking high finance.
I don’t know what the personal debt load is up there but if you guys didn’t buy into 20 years of borrowing to keep up with the Jones you’ll be in a good position.
We’ve been paying the freight for defense of Canada and Europe since the end of ww2. That may need to be curtailed. Russia and China are flexing thier muscles. We’ll see how it all shakes out. Maybe Canada can take advantage of our economic weakness and buy some of our surplus military gear when she has to step up to the plate take care of herself.
Sometimes it’s best to just leave a topic alone AO. The “Dow is down = Obama SUX” meme was pushed hard. Now that it’s up just take the lumps and wait for Mr. Willis to ignore the Obama Administration’s stance that gay people aren’t discriminated against because they’re free to marry. Just not other members of the same sex, but they’re free to marry.
LOL,
We’re not out of the woods yet and Obama’s actions are pointing towards socialism. But perhaps you are right. Gays were definitely thrown under the bus by Holder. We’ll see how good thier memory is in 3 years. I wonder if Oliver feels the slightest bit sheepish considering his post a short time back on “no price to pay”.
and Obama’s actions are pointing towards socialism.
This is insane. No they’re not. If you had seen, learned or read about actual socialism in action you’d never say this.
Notice how Dennis is strikingly silent. 5 months ago he was posting DOW tickers by the hour. Gone are the days of his little “Jesus help this President” idioms and so forth. What’s wrong little Denny? No more straws to grasp at on this subject? Or is it that you have lump of crow stuck in your throat?
Parthenon,
Socialism is a word that has a definition, as does capitalism.
They are opposite ends of a spectrum. One is the private sector control of the means of production, the other is the public sector control of the means of production. Do you know which is which?
In the time of only a few weeks the Federal government has taken control of what was our largest automobile company and owns a measurable share of the number 3 company. In doing so the traditional relationships between secured and unsecured bondholders was turned topsyturvy, basic law was disregarded.
We do not know how this will turn out or how long it will be until formerly private property is returned to private hands. Remembering the words of one of Obama’s key henchmen
“You never want a serious crisis to go to waste,” –Rahm Emanuel
does not inspire confidence.
But make no mistake Parthenon, we are, by the very definition of the word, moving in the direction of socialism. Where we end up, no one knows.
This is so rich. Not long ago our own little fuckwit-nutter Dennis was posting hourly updates on the stock market, linking the DOW directly to Obama’s performance.
Dennis? Dennis? Dennis? Got anything to say for yourself and our incredibly gifted new president?
Amused Observer: “Socialism is a word that has a definition, as does capitalism.”
This is true.
“They are opposite ends of a spectrum.”
This is not.
Well CS,
You may consider that a matter of opinion but I do not. At its very core it revolves around liberty. While our nations come from common stock, liberty was a concept more strongly felt in the colonies to the south of you. We seized our freedom and liberty, you did not. We are free men by our own action, you are not. It is not unexpected that we place different values upon it. You always cherish something more when you work for it then when it is given to you.
Dennis? Dennis? Dennis? Got anything to say for yourself and our incredibly gifted new president? Jaim
Actually, Jaim, I had plenty to say, but what I was going to say were the exact same words that AO said, “Surely you jest, Oliver”. Turns out, Oliver admitted he was jesting, so I didn’t have the heart (or the energy, after the hockey final) to pick apart his ridiculousless.
Obviously you don’t think he said what he said in jest, even though he linked to an article that warned of the potentially catastrophic effects of our incredibly talented president’s stimulus measures. So I think the joke is on you, Jaim.
And if you think things are so wonderful here now, why don’t you get on a plane and get back here instead of blogging from South Korea about how little money you make and complaining when other Koreans accuse you kind of carpetbagging in their country and stealing their jobs.
It’s quite obvious what your problems are Jaim. And’s quite obvious that you are very fond of transferring blame for your problems. Something about your makeup allows you to pretend that you are far superior to people who don’t agree with your political views, but it doesn’t take long to realize it’s just a simple case of false bravado. Classic inferiority complex behavior.
Confront your problems, Jaim. Meet them head on. Life is too short to slink into obscurity and then snipe at your demons.
If you want me to discuss Obama’s greatness because of the Dow’s being up slightly on the year, I’d be glad to oblige, but you’re gonna need to tell me what it is you think is so great, because at a 9.4% unemployment rate, right now, I ain’t seein’ it. And it gives me no pleasure in saying that. I WANT to be proven wrong that this guy might end up being Jimmy Carter’s second term replacement.
We seized our freedom and liberty, you did not. We are free men by our own action, you are not. It is not unexpected that we place different values upon it. You always cherish something more when you work for it then when it is given to you. –Amused Observer
Well said, AO. It’s no great mystery why Canadians are so fond of criticizing America, is it?
Socialism! Deficits! And yet somehow you guys were silent as church mice until the president was a Dem with black skin.
Amused Observer: “Well CS,
You may consider that a matter of opinion but I do not.”
It’s not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of the definition of these words. You don’t get to redefine capitalism, socialism, and opposite to fit your political prejudices.
“At its very core it revolves around liberty. While our nations come from common stock, liberty was a concept more strongly felt in the colonies to the south of you. We seized our freedom and liberty, you did not. We are free men by our own action, you are not. It is not unexpected that we place different values upon it. You always cherish something more when you work for it then when it is given to you.”
Oh go fuck yourself. We have more freedoms in Canada than you have in the States. There’s a reason why Canada abolished slavery before the United States did. But I guess reality doesn’t stand a chance compared to your rhetoric.
Dennis the Bigot: “Well said, AO. It’s no great mystery why Canadians are so fond of criticizing America, is it?”
And now that you have Dennis the Bigot backing you up, you have to know you are wrong.
The United States was founded on bigotry and oppression. The Puritans did not come to the new world to avoid persecution; they came here to be the persecutors again.
Maybe if you actually read a history book, you would know that.
Bullshit Oliver,
The only thing you can say good about Bushes spending is it was less than the Democrats would have done.
Way to play the race card…again… instead of facing the implications of the man’s actions.
LOL CS,
I didn’t realize Canada had slaves. Are you speaking of Indians?
We’ve seen the freedom of Canadians on display with your Human Rights Commission. That Canadian jew who stood up to them would make a fine American, you not so much.
And we’ve seen the Canadians disarmed, like sheep by thier own government. But then you are used to being subjects not citizens. So tell me how you are so free. Your right to free speech is under attack, you’ve been disarmed, and worst of all the one freedom you cherish above all others, pestering us, is still viable.
And before you go all moral on us would you like to discuss what you did with your japanese citizenry during ww2. We did the same but you being such a moral scold I thought you might gloss over that.
“blogging from South Korea about how little money you make and complaining when other Koreans accuse you kind of carpetbagging in their country and stealing their jobs”
When have I ever done this? And when have I ever complained beyond minor things like finding a power cord that works with my computer?
You’re a liar, Dennis. A sad little man whose racist little world has collapsed around his ears now that we have a black president (burns you up, doesn’t it?) who’s doing a pretty good job so far (burns you up, probably makes you sweat a little, doesn’t it?).
George Bush and the Republican Party ruined the American economy. Obama is on the road to helping it recover. And your tears and cries are incredibly delicious to me and the rest of the reality-based community known as Americans.
More tears Dennis, please! More diaper wetting!
And yet somehow you guys were silent as church mice until the president was a Dem with black skin. OW
And yet somehow you remain silent as a church mouse regarding Obama’s gargantuan deficits when you were hardly so with his white predecessor.
Funny that.
(btw, thanks for reading my blog Dennis. I appreciate the traffic.)
When have I ever done this? And when have I ever complained beyond minor things like finding a power cord that works with my computer?
You’re a liar, Dennis. Jaim
Where’s the lie, Jaim? You blogged about making $30,000, that is was ok by Korean standards for a single American living there, but not something you could bank any money on and bring back to the states. And you wrote and printed a letter to the editor when a journalist there wrote about Americans coming over to Korea and grabbing the jobs available. You complain incessantly here about conservatives, Republicans, and Rush Limbaugh. Do you seriously think of yourself as a content person who never complains? That’s hardly being a card-carrying member of the reality-based community, dude.
You lie when you call me a racist, my small-minded friend. There is not one word of racist tone in anything I’ve ever posted here. Not one. You have to manufacture it to claim it, which is easy for you to do when, like Oliver, you do by claiming any criticism of Obama is de facto racist coming from anyone not liberal like you. And that is just pathetic.
No tears, no bed-wetting from me, sir. I’ve done, and am doing, quite well. Unlike you, you won’t find me blogging about my sad lot in life.
(btw, thanks for reading my blog Dennis. I appreciate the traffic.) Jaim
No problem, Jaim. Trite blog-whoring here is not something I’d think was admirable, but Oliver allows it, so to each his own. I’d even be glad to donate. Heck, my wife is a teacher and I’d be glad to help you get a job here helping Americans recover from what is likely to be further and deeper economic disaster. We all need to do what we can, and you’re not much help to me or my fellow countrymen where you’re at right now.
Let me know. I can’t help you if you won’t let me help you.
Without conceding that the nation is “socialist,” it IS supposed to be a democracy. If we vote to be socialist, that would be our privilege. It has nothing to do with whether we are “free” or not free.
We are already “socialist” in many regards simply because there is an economy of scale in providing things everyone wants, such as water delivery systems and travel.
Our Interstate Highway system is “socialist” in the sense that is a uniform design imposed by our elected government, instead of a thousand sometimes connected roads individually designed and built to any set of standards the builder chooses and connecting any points the builder desires.
My house is hooked up to a “socialist” water supply, and I couldn’t be happier with the clean water delivered to me over a distance I would hate to carry it.
Similarly our health care system should join the 21st Century and eliminate the extortionists who guard the gates of medicine. As a free people we have the right to vote for the economy of scale represented by a coordinated national health system. If you don’t want to take advantage of it, you are free not to, just as you are free to walk if you don’t care to use publicly financed and operated highway systems.
Those who suggest that the government is incapable of running a medical system are insulting me, a former Army medic, and every member of the military who ever served in a medical capacity. The US military has the most advanced trauma care in the world, and it buys its supplies by the trainload.
The medical system in which I toiled while serving in the Army is the equal of any in the world, and was far superior and less expensive to operate than the private, “capitalist” system I am currently forced to use. The company that takes $700 a month from me in the event I should ever need medical care can cut me off at any time, and hires people to find ways not to honor claims.
It’s cheaper and more profitable for the stockholders to pay the employee who denies the claim than it is to pay the claim, and if the patient doesn’t like that, they can spend even more money in court, fighting for a couple of years to get coverage for something that will kill them before the court hears the case. Why shouldn’t we use the power of our numbers to vote for a system that eliminates these barriers?
When the goal of a “health” system is profit before health, the system is out of whack.
“Do you seriously think of yourself as a content person who never complains?”
Never said that, Sparky. I said I don’t complain too much about Korea, since it’s a bad habit lots of foreigners fall into. It’s unbecoming. My letter in the Korea Times was a response to an anti-American op-ed writer, not the country as a whole. But I have to remind myself that reading comprehension isn’t your strong point.
But really, your man-crush on me is kind of insane. If I’m such an idiot, why do you obsessively read my blog and track my every move?
I wish I could say I’m flattered. But it’s more like being stalked.
And btw, I’ve asked you before and I’ll ask you again: Do you even have a job? You love to criticize people for what they do (teaching is a great career, btw, but I doubt you have the educational acuity for it) but then you never let us know what Taco Bell you currently assistant manage.
“There is not one word of racist tone in anything I’ve ever posted here.”
Like when you referred to John Stewart by his original, and rather obviously Jewish last name? Uh-huh. You’re just the model of political correctness, aren’t you?
Anyhow, I’m sure O-dub would rather we took this elsewhere. My e-mail is available through my blog (which I know you have book-marked), so if you want to know anything else about me feel free to drop me a line, champ.
Back to the topic at hand, Dennis, what specific element of Obama’s presidency has allowed to Dow to gain ten percentage points since last November? Was it his leadership on the bank bail-outs? Or maybe his leadership on giving GM a hand-out (something I thought was a bad idea but then again, I’m not the guy who’s overseen a ten percentage rise in the stock markets). Personally, it think it has a lot to do with the confidence he exudes. Wall Street types and business owners know he’s competent, and that he’ll make good decisions. This can do a lot to restore an economy that was in free-fall thanks to Bush and the GOP late last year.
LOL Jaim,
I see the depth of your knowledge of economics isn’t any better than your grasp of US history. What did you get your degree in?
Um, Dow is up under Obama. I was never dumb enough to directly equate a president’s performance with the stock markets — it’s a lot more complicated than that, obviously. It was Dennis who did, and ever since the markets have gone up he’s stopped making this claim. However, over an eight-year period it is safe to say that Bush II and a Republican Congress were one of the worst things that happened to the American economy ever.
And if you want to know anything about me just subscribe to my blog like Dennis does. For a guy who tries to argue that fascism is the equivalent of socialism, please don’t lecture me on history.
The real issue right now is unemployment, and IMO it’ll be another 12 months before it subsides to a reasonable level. Business owners don’t want to expand their operations right now due to fears of the short-term economy.
But really, your man-crush on me is kind of insane. If I’m such an idiot, why do you obsessively read my blog and track my every move?
I wish I could say I’m flattered. But it’s more like being stalked. Jaim
Oh really, Jaim? When I’m not here you seek me out. Every time Oliver makes a ridiculous reference to an uptick in the stock market, not because he knows it’s necessarily a good thing, or even a sustained occurrence, but because it’s for reasons of ‘My God, where are all the Obama-bashers now?’, you pop in and ask ‘Where’s Dennis???’ That is stalking, my friend. I click on your link because I’ve always been curious where liberal hypocrisy comes from.
I’ve stated a hundred times before that printing Jon Stewart’s birth name is in no way anti-Semitic, much less racist, which is a ridiculous assertion seeing as how you equate that with criticism of Obama’s economic policies as being racist, and so you bring up a white person in Jon Stewart as your example of verifying that.
Barack Obama kept his birth name and I admire him for that. Jon Stewart chose not to keep his, and he won’t explain why he felt the need to change it, and I don’t admire him for that. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with his birth name, and like Obama, he could’ve used it to his benefit, especially being a comedian. Especially a comedian who prides himself on being an exceptionally politically astute one, which he is, abeit often very wrong; condescendingly so.
Actually Repack that is a republic we live in. I have privately supplied water and electricity, it works great and incidently is probably cheaper than yours. You’re comparing apples to oranges with your wartime miltary trauma comparison. You were working under horrific conditions but would you really rather be treated for a gunshot wound out in the middle of a firefight in a jungle or rice paddy or back home in frisco?
I know plenty of vets and retired military. The ones who are broke go to the VA and are thankful for it. The rest wouldn’t even consider it. Everything you say about insurance companies is true. But if you think you will get a crisper response through a government program you’re dreaming.
As an old guy you need to be especially careful of aging out of expensive care. At what point statistically will you be too old to qualify for certain procedures. Obama is committed to trying to insure more people for less money. At some point you won’t fit the cost benefit ratio. As for the benefits of socialism you’re a lot closer to that in California then we are. How’s that working out for you?
“Barack Obama kept his birth name and I admire him for that.”
I’m sure Obama sleeps better at night knowing that.
But back to the topic at hand, since it’s your belief that the Dow is directly linked to a president’s performance, I’ll ask a second time: What specifically is it about Obama that is making the American market go up?
What specifically is it about Obama that is making the American market go up? Jaim
Bank’s stabilizing, Jaim. When Obama was talking down the economy, and he was, constantly blaming Bush then as now, the fate of our nation’s banking system was in jeopardy, so the market was extremely edgy seeing as how Obama wasn’t clear on how he was going to stop the bleeding there. Now that it seems the worst for the banks may be over and many of them are repaying TARP money, investors are looking for bargains above and beyond the sub- 1% money market rturns. Bonds give a decent yield right now, but Chinese paranoia about our inflation prospects, heck, everyone’s paranoia about our inflation prospects, makes total returns on fixed income products tenuous at best. In short, Jaim, the market might very well not have declined to the level it did after Obama took office had he not done the things he did. That the market cratered after he took office and then didn’t stay cratered is hardly reflective of anything great that he did.
And why we have this same conversation every time the market gets a temporary uptick, but never when it goes right back down, is beyond me.
And on virtualy every uptick you ask, “Where’s Dennis?!?!?!”
But that’s not stalking to a reality-based communicant.
Jaim,
Socialism and fascism are side by side. Its a difference of degree not kind. Our economic woes are probably due more to a generational baby boomer sense of entitlement than any one administration. Detroit drove itself into the ground through pisspoor management, no sense of imagination, and not having the guts to face down the union more often.
The same short term outlook can be seen all over the American business world. At the root of the financial meltdown are bundled subprime mortgages. Would you like to give us a short primer on the origins of subprime mortgages and how they spread through the industry. Perhaps name some of the strong defenders of the subprime industry in Congress and touch on who unsuccessfully tried to rein it in.
As the great student of economic history perhaps you have an idea of what might happen with the projected deficits that are scheduled for the next 10 years. What has happened in the past when the government starts printing money?
You might be sitting pretty over there in Korea. Not being able to get a job in the states might have been the luckiest thing that ever happened to you.
I’m sure Obama sleeps better at night knowing that.
Childish retort. From a child. Seriously, Jaim, you attended Sidwell Friends, not something you blog-whored about but something you posted here. That should be beneath you. It makes me feel quite accurate in assuming you were running away from something here in the states when you knew you couldn’t measure up to your peers, and that must be quite painful for you. An over-educated, under-achiever blogging liberal.
Read ‘The Millionaire Next Door’, Jaim. Give up the liberal activist, bellyaching blogging about evil conservatives fucking up your life. You’ll feel better about yourself. Even Barack Obama would tell you the same thing, I’m quite sure, if he read liberal blogs to see what goes on in the minds of his followers.
“Socialism and fascism are side by side. Its a difference of degree not kind.”
Please cite one historian who makes this claim. And Jonah Goldberg, whose book was derided by historians, doesn’t count.
Just thinking that socialism and fascism are “bad” doesn’t make them the same. Socialism is state-owned companies (and propping up GM doesn’t make us a socialist nation). Fascism is an authoritarian system based on the state and the private sector working hand-in-hand (but no direct government ownership) to further the power of the government.
So sure, there are some cosmetic similarities, but historically socialism comes from the far left of the political spectrum and fascism from the far right. We’ve done this dance before, but Hitler rose to power as an anti-socialist, anti-Communist politician/demagogue. German companies made millions of marks during WWII (well, at least for the first part of it). I’ve asked you before, but please try looking into the history of German companies during WWII. Many of them still exist.
IMO, deficits are a problem (although your friend Dick Cheney claims they aren’t). But the larger problem short-term is getting unemployment down. If people aren’t working, they don’t pay taxes, and the deficit increases anyways. The Federal government ballooned in size and spending under the GOP, adding to our woes.
“You might be sitting pretty over there in Korea. Not being able to get a job in the states might have been the luckiest thing that ever happened to you.”
I like it a lot over here. Very interesting place, and a more interesting experience teaching than what I had in America. Thanks for asking. You and Dennis sure do like to talk about me.
Dennis, please take your obsession with me to e-mail. I’ve already banned you from commenting on my site, but if your really, truly need to know more about my personal life there are better ways of going about it. If you persist in criticizing what I do for a living, I will persist in asking you if you even have a job (my suspicion is that you don’t).
But thanks for admitting that Obama has restored confidence (to a certain extent) in the markets, something Bush II failed to do.
Amused Observer REALLY doesn’t realize how pathetic he is? Really?
But thanks for admitting that Obama has restored confidence (to a certain extent) in the markets, something Bush II failed to do.
The certain extent that he did so is quite nebulous and quite tenuous, which you also admit. And unlike you, what I do professionally has nothing to do with any argument I’ve ever made here, so I’ve never seen a reason to bring it up. And I’m also a quite modest person. I’d rather help people help themselves in any way I can than be boastful and pretend to assert some sort of superiority, like you seem to be fond of doing.
“And unlike you, what I do professionally has nothing to do with any argument I’ve ever made here, so I’ve never seen a reason to bring it up.”
Um, wut? You talk about what I do for a living all the time, and what others do as well. But you’re not big enough to let us all know what you do?
And when the economy was sagging after Obama became president it was all his fault, and now that it’s taking baby steps towards recovery he has nothing to do with him?
Hypocrisy, thy name is Dennis.
jaim,
You seem to think there is a big difference between government ownership and government control. As I said its a matter of degree not kind. Fascism is probably a little more effient. FDR was a fan of Mussolini as were many prominent leftists. You probably would have been too given your proclivities.
Jaim, we’re all hypocrites in some way. If I used your logic that the collapse in the DOW was all Bush’s fault, then this latest uptick was no more than a bounce from the market’s having fallen too far, which they always do, and that the credit goes to Bush. I never said the drop in Jan-Feb-March was ALL Obama’s fault, but that a lot of what he was doing was causing great uncertainty and terrible unease among the investor class, a class that you and Oliver derided unmercifully and unrelentingly as being evil and for having created the crisis. Now you want me to give full credit to Obama because those same people you demonized are putting some of the money back in that they panicked and took out last spring?
Sorry, can’t do. That’s not hypocrisy, it’d be dishonesty.
“the investor class”
My 401K makes me a part of this class.
Get a job, hippy.
But you’re not big enough to let us all know what you do? Jaim
Oh, I’m quite big enough, Jaim. If it were relevant. Plus there’s no upside.
I interact and deal with lots of people of the liberal bent, people who like me a lot and I get along with quite well. If they found out how easily and devastatingly I pick guys like you apart, those customers of mine that hold somewhat similar views as you, although not nearly quite as extreme and harmful to America, might misconstrue me as not being the nice guy they’ve come to know and love.
“how easily and devastatingly I pick guys like you apart”
Quoted for high comedic value.
Dennis, asking people if they want mild or hot sauce with their chalupa is a proud and noble career choice. I applaud you as a fellow member of the “investor class.” (Do you live in the 19th century or something?)
yeah Dennis sounds like most every hippy I’ve ever known.
“Jaim” is my Hero Today!-)
Jaim, when I was your age, I was putting more in my 401K than you are making now. That means nothing to me now, other than the fact that if I chose to, working in a restaurant serving people is something I could easily do. As a matter of fact, working in a restaurant in my youth holds enough fond memories for me that it’s something I wouldn’t mind doing again at some point.
In any event, I don’t look down on restaurant workers as being beneath me, or as somehow a low-life occupation, as you obviously do.
You were saying something about hypocrisy before, I believe, Jaim.
What if their given name is “Leibowitz”?
asking people if they want mild or hot sauce with their chalupa is a proud and noble career choice. Jaim
You know what, Jaim, for the people that do it, and do it well, it can be. That you demean people that serve Mexican food is despicable.
In right winger “Dennis’s” alternate reality, when he hears someone say the words, “proud and noble career choice”, what “Dennis” hears is something that “demean[s] people['s]” career choice.
As has been said before about stalker “Dennis” the right winger: “reading comprehension isn’t [his] strong point.”
Right winger “Dennis” insists he’s not a threat to other people but his stalking is nonetheless disturbing.
“Repack Rider” is the runner up for Hero for the Day!-)
What if their given name is “Leibowitz”? Jaim
I work with a fellow who who was born into that name and still goes by it, unlike Jon Stewart. I told him of the ridiculousness of the conversation over it here, and he laughed. I mentioned it to a couple of my customers who are Jewish, and the laughed too.
How is mentioning his birth name in passing here so much greater an offense than demeaning restaurant workers, specifically restaurant workers who serve Mexican food? And it’s something you’ve done several times before when you’ve chided me about me doing working in a restaurant, unlike the one time, and one time only, I mentioned Stewart’s birth name, so it must be something deeply ingrained in your psyche.
Stereotyping, bigoted, intolerant, liberal belly-acher with a classic case of an inferiority complex you are, Jaim.
No surprise that you join News Ref, Mister ed, and Southern Strategy among those with similar traits who squawk the loudest here.
In right winger “Dennis’s” alternate reality, when he hears someone say the words, “proud and noble career choice”, what “Dennis” hears is something that “demean[s] people['s]” career choice. News Ref
There is no other explanation than he meant to demean people who serve Mexican food, News Idiot. Let’s you and me wait to hear his explanation, because in the past when he’s made similar bone-headed statements he’s regretted, like now he’s left it to other people to do his bidding.
That you were so quick to come to his defense when previously staying out of this conversation is quite telling of the embarrassment you have for him. Shocking to see one of your own with such a bigotry streak, isn’t it, News Idiot?
Right winger “Dennis”: “me doing working in a restaurant”
I’ve always thought dishwashers were under-appreciated.
And I’ll note that I’m saying that seriously, since “Dennis” has a reading comprehension problem.
And just to make sure you understand, “Dennis”, I’m not making fun of you for your reading comprehension problem. It’s clear you’ve made great strides in remedying your remedial reading abilities. Your posts have improved remarkably over time.
The next step, “Dennis”, is to work on your critical thinking skills and become better informed about actual history rather than the right wing’s fictional history.
Some of Dennis’ best Jews are friends.
Some of Dennis’ best Jews are friends.
Best customers and co-workers, I said, but yeah, friends too.
Please address your bigotry toward restaurant workers instead of going to the well again, the only well you know of, which incidentally, you were never even a part of until other people latched on to out of sheer opportunity. You’ve chided me several times about working in a restaurant, so please tell me why you find this type of work worthy of your scorn.
Jaim suddenly ascribes to the phrase ‘Silence is golden’.
Jaim and News Reference, two blog-whoring, blood brothers in bigotry.
“Oh noes, he read my blog that I flash here for traffic. I’m being stalked!”
Like Paris Hilton, LiLo and Britney when they flash their hoo-ha’s, then wonder why they get the criticism.
Capitalism is the private control of the means of production, socialism strictly speaking is the public control of the means of production. Your exaulted Obama has taken the largest steps towards socialism since FDR.
Yes, and he controls a whopping .021% of the means of production. they are trying to SAVE capitalism. Where’s your fucking gratitude?
AO:and Obama’s actions are pointing towards socialism.
Parthenon:This is insane. No they’re not. If you had seen, learned or read about actual socialism in action you’d never say this.
But… Glen Beck wouldn’t lie to AO, would he?
LOL,
One of my favorite bartenders used to work the high end restaurant biz. He said working in a restaraunt is like high school with way more sex. All kinds of drama between waitstaff , the front house, the back house etc. Gossip who is screwing who etc. etc. etc. He finds bartending and closing down the bar at night to be much more mellow than partying with the cooks till morning. The cooking staff is notorious for thier hard drinking ways.
Duros,
You can’t possibly understand the implications of anything can you?
Not to bring the discussion back on topic, but…
…did GM’s removal from the DJ Index have anything to do with the overall gains?
J.
What, do you think this is just the tip of the iceberg? The fact that America really doesn’t produce anything anymore is gonna make nationalization so much easier, huh?
Stop wetting you pants about it, it ain’t gonna happen the way you and Beck think it is.
And you know it.
Better that the government just does nothing, is that it? ‘Cuz that’s what Maverick would have done, right? Just let the entire banking industry fail? If all those CDS and CDO’s had been called in, you know how much that would have cost us? $9 trillion dollars.
Would that have been better for you?
Socialism and fascism are side by side. Its a difference of degree not kind.
OMFG. And you asshats have the nerve to insult me.
Socialism and fascism are side by side. Its a difference of degree not kind.
Amused, you really have no idea what you’re talking about. None at all.
Dammit Oliver, get rid of these damn popup ads!!!
Fafaroo,
Perhaps you could share your wisdom and enlighten me. Say have you ever heard of a fellow by the name of Karl Marx?
Haven’t we been over this before, Amused?
Socialism and fascism can share a degree of radicalism, to the extent that both ideologies seek to transform society through revolutionary means. But what they hope to achieve in the end could not be more opposed to one another.
There are quite a few major differences between socialism and facism, not the least of which is the fact that while there are many different types of socialism, it nevertheless has a very clearly defined philosophical tradition with certain core features that explains both the socialist view of history as a class struggle and its political response.
Facism has no such foundational texts. It is, rather, an amporphous, ill-defined ideology that, at various times, has been stretched to mean all things to all people depending on who’s speaking. Fascists have claimed equal cause with captains of industry as they have with workers on the assembly line.
Fascism in its most basic form is radically nationalist. Socialism is radically internationalist. Indeed, Marx argued that international socialism would lead to the dissolution of the nation state. Hitler, on the other hand, wanted to establish a German-centric empire.
Along with being radically nationalist, fascism emphasizes racial superiority and belonging over class. Fascists tend to view history as a struggle between races and cultures. Socialists do not. They explain the movements of history through class struggle.
Fascism is authoritarian in nature. Socialism is not. The European socialism that you seem to be so terrified of supports representative democracy. Fascists do not and never have supported representative democracy.
Fascism is anti-rational. Fascism appeals not to reason but to myth, emotion and national/racial sentiment. For the fascist, war is the ultimate motivator for national/racial renewal.
Socialism, through Marx, on the other hand, is deeply rooted in Enlightenment thought.
Because fascists place race and culture above class as the prime movers of history, fascism does not have a coherent economic philosophy or set of policies. To the extent that there such as thing as “fascist economics” fascists have argued that the represent a “third way” between capitalism and socialism. Which basically means that you could just as well say that fascism and capitalism are side by side. Its a difference of degree not kind.
Fascists are opposed to trade unions and strikes. In practice, fascists have proven to be good friends of business and industrial leaders while proving hostile to the existence of unions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_fascism
I now eagerly await your post of a single, out of context quote from Hitler. Better make it a good one!
Amused Observer: “Well its good you’re laughing, ignorance is bliss.”
Wow. I missed that the first time. I guess I was blinded by the hypocrisy.
Amused Observer: “LOL CS,”
‘Well its good you’re laughing, ignorance is bliss.’
“I didn’t realize Canada had slaves. Are you speaking of Indians?”
And Africans. There were never many slaves in Canada, and it was made illegal to buy or import decades before Britain abolished slavery, which is decades before the United States did so.
So explain again how United States using force to break away from Britain made them lovers of freedom while Canadians hate freedom?
“We’ve seen the freedom of Canadians on display with your Human Rights Commission.”
Yes. Human Rights is the antithesis of Freedoms.
Do you even know what it does? It combats discrimination and hate crimes. Unless you are arguing that people should have the rights to take away the rights of others.
Granted, the CHRC is not perfect, but to say it takes away freedoms is fucking stupid.
“That Canadian jew who stood up to them would make a fine American, you not so much.”
You make a terrible American. You know what you would be good at making? Fertilizer.
“And we’ve seen the Canadians disarmed, like sheep by thier own government.”
Huh? What are you talking about?
At this point, you just need to fuck off. You don’t know what you are talking about.
“But then you are used to being subjects not citizens. So tell me how you are so free. Your right to free speech is under attack…”
Really? My freedom of speech is under attack? In the United States, you can’t show a person say fuck on TV. Even if you can’t hear the word, you can’t see his lips while they say it.
In Canada you can say fuck on TV. You can show two people fucking on TV.
You can’t commit hate crimes up here, but hate crimes are a form of terrorism.
Or are you saying you are pro-terrorist?
“you’ve been disarmed…”
Fucking ignorant piece of shit.
“…and worst of all the one freedom you cherish above all others, pestering us, is still viable.”
And you the piece-de-resistance, you decide that my freedom of speech should be restricted. Funny bit of hypocrisy there.
“And before you go all moral on us would you like to discuss what you did with your japanese citizenry during ww2. We did the same but you being such a moral scold I thought you might gloss over that.”
So that’s your defense of the United States? You can think of an example where Canada was just as bad as you guys?
Wow.
J.G.Thayer: “Not to bring the discussion back on topic, but…
…did GM’s removal from the DJ Index have anything to do with the overall gains?”
No. You fucking ‘tard.
The gains were happened well before GM was removed.
Jesus Christ. Do a little research before you pull a Cavuto.
Dennis the Bigot: “I’ve stated a hundred times before that printing Jon Stewart’s birth name is in no way anti-Semitic…”
That what you said, but you are not reliable on the matter, as you have a reason to lie.
And you have lied.
You gave at least six different excuses for printing Jon Stewart’s birth name, and it would be impossible for all six to be correct. However, it is possible that all six are wrong, and the real reason is that you are anti-Semitic.
Dennis the Bigot: “‘Oh noes, he read my blog that I flash here for traffic. I’m being stalked!’”
YOU are complaining that someone called you a stalker?
Good god, do you ‘tards on the right have a competition for hypocrisy? Is there an awards dinner? Do you get a trophy?
You’re an asshole, Southern Strategy. You’ve never said a nice thing about or to anyone on this blog ever. You have to make shit up to make a point.
Bottom line, you hate yourself. Hating everyone else is just an extension of that.
Strowbridge, go Strowbridge yourself. I didn’t assert a fucking thing. I claim no great or special knowledge of the stock market. I noticed two different things — the delisting of GM and the Dow — and spotted a potential connection: GM had been one of the benchmark stocks that helped determine the DJ average.
GM’s stock had tanked to the point of being essentially worthless (especially with the government owning it now, which means that all bets are off and stockholders will be compensated not by the rule of law, but how Obama feels like it, as in Chrysler) and it was replaced. Logic would dictate that the DJ average would rise based solely on that fact — a single component replaced with one of higher value.
I didn’t say that it was the only factor, or that it was even a factor. I just tossed it out.
Nice to see you’re still a hair-triggered fuckhead. Some consistency is to be appreciated.
J.
Dennis the Bigot: “You’re an asshole, Southern Strategy. You’ve never said a nice thing about or to anyone on this blog ever. You have to make shit up to make a point.
Bottom line, you hate yourself. Hating everyone else is just an extension of that.”
Lies, lies, and more lies. (Except for the part about me being an asshole. That’s accurate. … And a point of pride.)
But I noticed you didn’t even attempt to prove I was wrong.
You gave multiple excuses for using Jon Stewart’s birth name, many that were mutually exclusive. (For instance, you claimed there was no reason. You also claimed it was because he’s brother was a banker.)
Therefore, you assertions now are less than credible.
I.E., you lied about this subject in the past, therefore you are not trustworthy now.
Do you have a logical argument against my point? Or are you simply going to attack me personally?
J.G.Thayer: “Strowbridge, go Strowbridge yourself. I didn’t assert a fucking thing.
…
I didn’t say that it was the only factor, or that it was even a factor. I just tossed it out.”
It’s called a Cavuto, which is defined as asking a question to make a point, not to elicit an answer. It’s a form of a rhetorical question.
Someone who writes for a living should know what a rhetorical question is.
Or maybe you don’t, and that’s why you got fired from being a blogger.
(Tee hee hee.)
(especially with the government owning it now, which means that all bets are off and stockholders will be compensated not by the rule of law, but how Obama feels like it, as in Chrysler)
Please back up this assertion.
Oh, Strowbridge, I know what a rhetorical question is. It’s something like “why is Strowbridge such a persistent, quintessential, lying asshole?” Silly question — being a persistent, quintessential, lying asshole is the very definition of “strowbridge.”
The question about GM was not one. I tossed it out as a possibility — one that might have played a small part in the whole situation. I still think it did play a small part, and serves as a partial explanation.
You, on the other hand, proved once more that you are simply capable of civil discourse with those who do not march in lockstep with you. That was a tremendously redundant effort on your part, as that particular aspect of your character has been long established, but it was kind of you to reaffirm it for those who might have had any doubts.
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Oh, Strowbridge, I know what a rhetorical question is. … The question about GM was not one.”
Really? Are you fucking serious? That wasn’t a rhetorical question?
Oh my god! I can’t believe you are this fucking stupid!
Jesus Christ, you could have simply followed the link Oliver posted to have known the upturn began months ago, well before GM was taken out of the DOW. How can GM being removed be a factor, when it turned around BEFORE GM was removed.
Fucking hell. It was a serious question.
“You, on the other hand, proved once more that you are simply capable of civil discourse with those who do not march in lockstep with you.”
And you attack me for lack of civility in the same post that you call me a, ‘persistent, quintessential, lying asshole’.
Nice piece of hypocrisy there.
But what truly warms my heart is the fact that you are just, plain, fucking wrong.
The facts are the facts.
J.G.Thayer: “(especially with the government owning it now, which means that all bets are off and stockholders will be compensated not by the rule of law, but how Obama feels like it, as in Chrysler)”
fafaroo: “Please back up this assertion.”
No response to this?
Or should we just assume you were talking out your ass?
For instance, you claimed there was no reason. You also claimed it was because he’s brother was a banker.)
Therefore, you assertions now are less than credible…..
I.E., you lied about this subject in the past, therefore you are not trustworthy now. Do you have a logical argument against my point? Or are you simply going to attack me personally? Southern Strategy
Whatever your bizarre reasons are for hanging on this one topic proves your obsessive compulsive nature, Strwobridge. I thought when you posted very little the last couple of weeks and seemed to want to avoid the controversy that you displayed such a wanton passion for in the past that maybe you had found a good therapist that was able to help you. Evidently that was not the case, or else you’ve gone into relapse.
I never lied once about this. I told you I thought less of Stewart for changing his name and never offering an explanation. Perhaps he’s the one who’s ashamed of something, though I see no reason why he should be. His brother certainly wasn’t. I mentioned his brother because his brother was part of the same crowd that he and nearly everyone posting here at the time was demonizing- investment bankers, and another piece of information he wasn’t sharing as he was doing his demonizing of Wall Street.
I don’t lie and I’m in no way an anti-Semite. You, on the other hand, do lie, Strowbridge. You admitted you lied when you made up your charge that Jay Tea had been fired and was unemployed, which you pulled completely out of your ass. It’s a common thread with you, pulling shit out of your ass because of your bizarre need make points that are only theories to you; pure speculation like your weird Southern Strategy obsession, but nonetheless theories that you can’t make anywhere close to a decent case for without fabrication. And it’s pure fabrication you engage in with your baseless charge of anti-Semitism for stating Stewart’s birth name in passing without ever mentioning his heritage before, or anything at all whatsoever to do with anything Jewish-related. You are also quite bigoted- you obviously hate America and Americans with a passion, or you wouldn’t spend so much of your day finding fault in this country and it’s citizens.
But like I said before, it all stems from the obvious; that it’s yourself that you hate the most.
You, on the other hand, proved once more that you are simply capable of civil discourse with those who do not march in lockstep with you.
Why is that a bad thing?
Fafaroo,
Nice post, well thought out, exquisite pasting.
Fascism was invented by Mussolini after his fall from grace as a socialist leader. He retooled, revised his interpretation of the end game envisioned by Marx and took his show on the road.
Fascism and the socialism practiced by Russia at the time of Mussolini’s rise shared a common desire, power and common ideaological base, Marxism. Thier commonalities are greater than thier differences. Communism never breaks through the authoritarian middle stage to the workers paradise.
CS,
Nice rant, Do you feel better now. Your Human Rights Commission is a joke. They’re a kangaroo court with a immense case of mission creep. Hate crime sounds so righteous. Who could possibly be against hate crime. Except in Canada offensive speech is a hate crime. If a person is offended he is a victim of a hate crime and has the power of the state to punish the person he feels offended by.
But to you CS the idea of free speech means not unfettered discourse but the ability to say fuck and watch porn on tv. Classy CS. Get cable and you can while away the hours staring at the tv with a roll of toilet paper close at hand here too.
But in this country freedom of speech means much more than masterbation rights.
If you don’t consider yourself disarmed try purchasing a handgun for self protection. Bravo for outlawing the importation of black slaves. I’m sure at this late date you can feel very smug about that.
Thier commonalities are greater than thier differences…
but I will neither describe them nor cite anyone who does. You’ll just have to take my word for it because I couldn’t find a different Hitler quote than the last one I posted.
Fascism was invented by Mussolini after his fall from grace as a socialist leader.
Please tell us your understanding of Mussolini’s “fall from grace” as a socialist leader?
Things were so much simpler when conservatives were buying all the SUVs and full size pickups.
Dennis: That you demean people that serve Mexican food is despicable.
To my eye, Jaim seems to be referring to employment at Taco Bell. To refer to the comestibles served at the company’s many outlets as “Mexican Food” is an insult to food and a slander against Mexicans.
Dennis the Bigot: “Whatever your bizarre reasons are for hanging on this one topic proves your obsessive compulsive nature, Strwobridge.”
Translation: “Shut up! Shut up! Shut up!”
Just because you were caught in an obvious racist rant doesn’t mean I’m obsessed. And you calling me obsessed isn’t going to stop me from calling you a racist. BECAUSE YOU ARE A RACIST.
“I never lied once about this.”
Yes you have. Repeatedly.
You gave several excuses and many were mutually exclusive. Therefore, you lied.
This is simply logic and unassailable.
“I don’t lie and I’m in no way an anti-Semite.”
I’ve proved otherwise.
“You, on the other hand, do lie, Strowbridge. You admitted you lied when you made up your charge that Jay Tea had been fired and was unemployed, which you pulled completely out of your ass.”
When I call someone a motherfucker, it doesn’t mean I think they are fucking mothers. Theirs or anyone else’s.
Yet you bring this point up. Repeatedly. It is almost like… you are obsessed! Oh my god!!!!
Idiot.
“You are also quite bigoted- you obviously hate America and Americans with a passion, or you wouldn’t spend so much of your day finding fault in this country and it’s citizens.”
And yet most of the people on this board are Americans, and I get along with them fine.
I work for an American company. My boss is American.
There evidence to support your claim just isn’t there.
In reality, I don’t hate all Americans, but I certainly hate you.
I hate you, because you are a loathsome, racist, toad.
AO: “Nice rant, Do you feel better now.”
That wasn’t a rant. But I suspect your statement was projection.
“Your Human Rights Commission is a joke. They’re a kangaroo court with a immense case of mission creep.”
This from the man who thinks Canadians have been disarmed by their government. Your ignorance is stunning.
“But to you CS the idea of free speech means not unfettered discourse but the ability to say fuck and watch porn on tv.”
You are controlled by puritans who are scared of sex. This has a huge impact on your society. In Canada gays can serve openly in the military and they can get married.
More freedoms!
“If you don’t consider yourself disarmed try purchasing a handgun for self protection.”
It’s easy to get a handgun in Canada, assuming you don’t have a criminal record and you’ve taken a safety course. But if I wanted a gun for self protection, I’d get a shotgun.
“Bravo for outlawing the importation of black slaves. I’m sure at this late date you can feel very smug about that.”
You are the one who claimed the United States valued freedom more than Canada. Then explain why Canada outlawed slavery before the United States.
Or were you just talking out of your ass and letting your prejudices do the thinking for you?
AO thinks Marx is responsible for fascism.
No wonder Republicans aren’t taken seriously any longer.
about the Dow: you were saying…
Jaim,
You’re a fool. He is not responsible for it, Mussollini invented it or actually gave it a name. But his thinking was guided by that troublesome philosopher.
Let me make it a little more simple for you. All Communists are Fascists. Not all Fascists are Communists. All Communists and Fascists are Socialists. Socialists place the needs of the state above the rights of the people.
That’s a bit of an overgeneralization but as I said before, they vary in degree not kind.
Fafaroo,
Mussollini was a big shot in the socialist world until he crossed the party line by supporting Italy’s involvement in WW1. But then you already knew that, right?
All Communists and Fascists are Socialists.
And all horses are vegetables. Logic is easy when you can make words mean whatever you want.