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This is just…weird. Couldn’t they at least have put a sombrero on her so we understood which stereotype they were going for?
Come on Spiderj, she’s not Mexican.
A smiling Buddhist monk. That’s funny!
LOL,
Disrespectful perhaps but racist? Once again Oliver swings and misses.
I guess you have to think in stereotypes to get into the wingnut head. Wise = Asian gurus. “Wise Latina” thus has to look like an Asian guru.
Even explained, it’s visually senseless. And stupid.
This is fucking stupid.
And AO, yes, it’s pretty racist.
yeah, those asians and their slanty eyes, i mean, amirite?
Amused Observer: “Disrespectful perhaps but racist? Once again Oliver swings and misses.”
This from a man who said it wasn’t racist to be scared of increased crime when black people move into your neighborhood.
Racism is a serious accusation that is being rather casually tossed around here. When accusations of racism are used in such glib fashion it makes people pay less attention when actual instances occur.
This National Review cover is an obvious play on the “wise Latina,” with Sotomayor portrayed as some kind of learned, zen buddhist. Now, one can argue that it’s a pretty dumb icon to go with — and I am inclined to agree — but it’s hardly racist.
As for the slanty eyes, maybe it is just me but she doesn’t to have full, round eyes. You be the judge:
http://witnessla.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/sotomayor-262.jpg
Caricatures, as we all know, exaggerate features. Just think of Bill Clinton’s chin or Dubya’s brow. Yes, the National Review cover makes her look funny, but that’s what caricatures do.
National Review might be lame, but racist? Oliver, when you use the term so easily you are no better than Newt Gingrich.
LOL,
CS don’t go opening this can of worms. You’re really just doing a little potstirring.
From center court Colin shoots SWISH he scores, the croud falls silent. Oliver quickly picks himself up off the floor. ties his shoes. stumbles again to the left, faces the crowd and starts chanting RACIST. The crowd picks up the beat…a deafening roar shakes the rafters
Once again AO manages to take a salmonella-infected shit into his own mouth.
Actually, the thing is: the headline is more racist than the caricature, which is, again, just confusing (yes, I know she’s not Mexican; she’s American).
“The Wise Latina.”
As if, what, there’d never been one before? There’s nobody else who fits that description but her? Behold, ladeez and gennelmen, the eighth wonda of da world! The Wise Latina!
If Sports Illustrated ran a cover photo of Steve Nash above the caption “Steve Nash: The Good White Basketball Player” it would be just as offensive.
Jesus christ this blog is race-obsessed freakshow.
It’s a freaking caricature for god’s sake. And like Colin said, she doesn’t have round eyes. And caricatures mock and exaggerate features. Yes, even features of “wise latinas.”
My g-d what do you people do? Just walk around every second of the day *trying* to be offended.
But I sleep well knowing that folks that would be outraged, or at least pretend to be, are on the fringe of our society and not taken seriously.
Sometimes I like comin’ here just to spar with people. It’s fun to me. But man, this is just seriously stupid bullshit. This must be the most uptight, anal, non-fun having group of folks I’ve ever seen. Being offended and angry all the time over trivial shit and non-issues like this makes for a miserable life. That is sad as hell.
Have a good night folks. Done wastin my time on this obviously intentionally inflammatory and phony-outrage-filled thread.
National Review might be lame, but racist?
Yeah, it’s not like the publication was against Martin Luther King or anything.
I’ll say this: I have no interest in writing about racism, but its up to the right to quit using it as a political weapon.
The people at National Review are truly colorblind. How else could you explain them using the WRONG racial stereotype.
yo mama: “Jesus christ this blog is race-obsessed freakshow.”
Southern. Strategy.
When the GOP choose to use the Southern Strategy, and continues to use it to this day, it loses the right to complain when people call them racist.
They had people running for president in 2008 that were complaining about having a Spanish-language debate. If you don’t think that’s based on bigotry, then explain the real reason.
I don’t think I have seen anyone get it right in any of the comments on this I have seen at any of the sites castigating NR for their ‘inept racist stereotyping’. The caricature does not portray Sotomayor as ‘an Asian’ or as ‘a buddhist’ or as ‘a monk’ – have none of you ever seen a statue of the Buddha? They are portraying her as the Buddha – ‘The Enlightened One’. Sheesh, buy a clue, people. It’s not racism, it’s simply mocking her inflated self-image. Ever heard of the Obamessiah?
Shorter right wing “Colin”: ‘don’t call out the right wing’s racism because, uhm, that’s racism!”
“Colin” even has a cheering section from “Amused ‘Racist’ Observer”, who has previously insisted that he be called “racist”.
This coming from the Republican Jeff ‘thought the KKK were great guys until learning some of them smoked dope’ Sessions Party.
>I’ll say this: I have no interest in writing about racism, but its up to the right to quit using it as a political weapon.
Chortle. This from the guy who is willing to read racism into just about anything, if he thinks he can make some political hay out of it. Your intellectual honesty on this subject is so bad that News Reference is more credible than you.
This is a great thread! Colin dismisses racism when the National Review, a magazine that opposed the civil rights movement, puts an image that’s so racist it’s insulting to Latinos, Asians and buddhists!
Yet, our mouth breathing trolls here continually accuse Sotomayor of being racist because she once said something about her experience as a Latina makes her a different person than a white male! Oh noes! Reverse racism!
It all makes sense now: National Review is being unfairly accused of racism! Sotomayor, a respected judge who achieved great things against adverse odds and has a history of actually ruling against Latino discrimination complaints is the true racist! Black is white! Cats are sleeping with dogs!
This from the guy who is willing to read racism into just about anything,
Except that isn’t remotely true. As I said, when the right quits using race-based attacks as one of its central planks, I can quit writing about that. And I’ll be happy.
>Except that isn’t remotely true. As I said, when the right quits using race-based attacks as one of its central planks, I can quit writing about that. And I’ll be happy.
And when you stop regularly race baiting as one of your central themes on this blog, you might have something worthwhile to say. Till then, you’re just the boy that cried wolf.
On a side note…
tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/bay-buchanan-after-assaulting-black-woman-calling-her-nigger-epstein-was-lynched.php?ref=fpa
Bay Buchanan defends her racist employee by using racist imagery.
Haplo9: “And when you stop regularly race baiting as one of your central themes on this blog, you might have something worthwhile to say. Till then, you’re just the boy that cried wolf.”
And when you recognize there is still massive racism in the world, you might be part of the solution, and not part of the problem.
You can say a lot with art, and this says, “We hate you.”
I looked at the picture. It fits my definition of racism, especially of the kind where the holder of the views is proud of his open-mindedness and accuses others of racism for noticing it in him. If it isn’t racist, it remains pretty tasteless.
“Racism” is an elusive term. It exists only as opinion, not a data point on a chart or a mathematical proof. I see the cover as racist but I can’t “prove” that it is. If others don’t see it as racist, then we do not live in the same logical matrix and we won’t agree on much else either.
In spite of that, I vigorously defend the National Review’s First Amendment right to expose themselves in public, and let us know who they really are. They will not attract any new readers with this cover. Let them chain themselves to a shrinking demographic and slowly fade away. After stopping for a moment to laugh at their plight, we can move on to importaqnt matters.
They are not important, and do not deserve much of our attention.
I just saw some tape of Judge Sotomayor, and she looks like she might be Asian — her skin is light , nearly white ,and her epicanthic fold is nearly missing.
The allusion to her statement about the “wisdom” of the minority woman was obvious, and the Buddha aptly symbolized her self-styled appropriation of the role as “font of wisdom”.
Don’t like it?
Not your cup of tea?
Don’t understand it?
Okie dokie
Racist ?
Not hardly.
And, Oliver, oh, yes you DO pull that race card way too often.
AO, Frank…..
I don’t know why you bother. I’ve realized something lately about the regulars on this blog. The majority of them are race-obsessed kooks. They buy into identity-politics, see this country as fundamentally flawed, a wicked and racist nation, play the identitity-politics game to divide and conquer the public, and have not one shred of intellectual honesty among them. Some of the things that have been called racist on this blog, this post being just another example, would cause people with common sense to laugh them out of the room. In most cases, I would think the people on here wouldn’t dare piss and moan about insignificant, non-issues like this post in public, because they know how ridiculous it would be to make this an issue in that sort of setting. I’ve seen these type of people before. They don’t live in reality. They live in a little box where they assume the motivation for everything is racial. Take CS Strowbridge’s comment: “There is still massive racism in this world.” In the world – sure, in this country, not so much. Hardly at all in fact. The bar has been lowered so much by people like CS that the accusation is meaningless and usually blown off now. A completely harmless, and accurate caricature, given the situation at hand, sparks a thread like this, and it’s just not worth bickering with such disingenuous, wretched human beings over it anymore. If they want to live in their race-obsessed, paranoid little box, so be it. They ought to know that they’re a dying breed though. Race-perks will come to an end sooner rather than later. The tide is turning that way. They won’t be able to portray whites as the enemy much longer without running them out of their party.
I suspect many of them don’t know any better and are perhaps victims of either bad parenting, a nice campus brainwashing, and/or have issues with self-loathing, particularly the white visitors. AO, Frank….can you honestly imagine the misery involved with hanging out with people such as CS, Duros, etc? Can you imagine the negativity, the stunningly humorless environment that would create? If you ate with the wrong hand you’d be called a bigot. Well, that’s their existence. Constantly looking for something…anything, that someone could possibly be offended by, pointing it out, and using it as a wedge to divide people. And the owner of this blog, Oliver Willis, is the king of the bullshit. I’ll say this now: OW has race issues. No one can post this much about racism without projecting a bit. He clearly has some animosity towards whites, unless of course, you’re one of the whites that would actively support discrimination against yourself, which at that point would make you “one of the ok ones.” And if you look at the posts, there is very little in the way of substantive arguments ever put forth. Just a sarcastic comment, an accusation, and a link. And his comments are no different. He throws red meat to the idiots that comment here, probably generates more traffic, and in turn gets a bit more in advertising money. If he’s lucky, Instapundit will link to him, and it’ll be a great day.
It’s been fun sparring with everyone here. Don’t get me wrong. This is entertaining when I’m sitting in my cube at work. But the constant race-themed posts are just tired. I do not feel like wasting any more of my life on stupid shit like this post. These people and this post have lowered the bar…again. And from here on out, I won’t lower myself to their despicable level. If they want to slander people over a 100% relevant caricature, let’em go ahead. Reasonable, fair-minded people will have no part of it. Even most Democrats call such an accusation ridiculous. And the folks here are here for a reason – no one else takes them or that type of shit seriously.
Here’s my take on a few folks..
Duros: least intelligent person on this blog. Has yet to ever respond with any valid point or thought out response. Is only capable of childish insults and cliche sarcasm. Perhaps young and naive, if not that, then he’s just a dim bulb. Not really worth responding to most the time.
CS – not stupid, but a race-obsessed committed liberal. Pretty par for the course here. Does make thought out comments at least.
Quaker – smartest of the bunch. Race-obsessed and committed liberal of course, but the comments are on topic and fun to respond to. At least you have to think to conversate with him/her.
Myself personally, I’m done with this blog. I won’t link to or waste my time with this diningenuous, race-whining anymore. And you guys shouldn’t either.
Later folks. Have fun walking around miserable and pissed off all the time. Hopefully, the “evil white people” won’t getcha!
Have fun walking around miserable and pissed off all the time.
“Have fun being pissed off,,” contradicts itself. As I said, we don’t live in the same logical matrix.
I believe you are projecting, because no one I know thinks I walk around “pissed off,” but reading between your lines I suspect that you do.
Yeah, it’s not like the publication was against Martin Luther King or anything.
LOL, so the publication was against MLK getting the Nobel peace prize in 1964 — 45 years ago — and that, what, makes them forever racist? Do you think that maybe a publication’s views change over the years?
On Jan,. 14, 1987 The New York Times wrote an editorial entitled “The Right Minimum Wage: $0.00″ advocating its abolition. On Sep. 14, 1999 it wrote another editorial advocating a increase in the minimum wage.
Publications typically reflect the outlook of their editor. Editors change. Really, this is journalism 101 and it is incredible that someone who writes for an organization called Media Matters doesn’t know this.
Either you are ignorant about how publications work or simply prefer an outlook in which anything associated with the political right is automatically labeled racist. The fact that you have to resort to such thin gruel in your accusations suggests the latter.
I’ll say this: I have no interest in writing about racism, but its up to the right to quit using it as a political weapon.
You insult my intelligence when you write such things. Your actions belie your words.
“I do not feel like wasting any more of my life on stupid shit like this post”, Right winger “yo mama” explains in the longest post they’ve ever written.
Haha, love how the usual suspects who think they’re making snappy clever remarks here to tweak Oliver and other commenters get even more frustrated than usual when they get called on the right’s racism. Over/under on “yo mama” returning to demand attention again: I’ll say ten hours. At most.
As if, what, there’d never been one before? There’s nobody else who fits that description but her? Behold, ladeez and gennelmen, the eighth wonda of da world! The Wise Latina!
You are utterly clueless. Do you read any news? At all? “Wise Latina” is her most famous/notorious utterance, with President Obama even commenting on this statement.
Here is the Right’s double standard in easily digested form.
Marcus Epstein, blogger at
TownHall, employee of Tom Tancredo and the Buchanan clan, co-founder of
Youth for Western Civilization, pleads guilty to an unprovoked assault on a Black woman walking down the street with her husband, during which he struck her in the head and called her a n*gger.
Remember that Tancredo and Pat Buchanan are
leading the assault on Sotomayor’s supposed “racism,” because she had used the phrase “wise Latina.” That’s it. She didn’t call anyone else names or physically assault anyone, but SHE’s a “racist.”
At the same time, they defend their employee, who has pleaded guilty to a CRIME involving a race-based physical assault. Here’s
Bay Buchanan, saying that. “…Marcus Epstein deserves to have his good name returned to him.”
I need some conservatives to explain this to me.
Shorter Yo mama: There is no racism in this country! Now wake up my white brothers! The tide is turning and now is the moment to stop appeasing these uppity “colored” people and reclaim your rightful place as the master, er, totally not-racist race!
I just saw some tape of Judge Sotomayor, and she looks like she might be Asian — her skin is light , nearly white ,and her epicanthic fold is nearly missing.
Shorter frank: “They all look alike, anyway. I mean, am i right? What?”
fafaroo: “It is better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt”
If you don’t believe that there are Hispanics who look Asian , perhaps you should visit my neighborhood , where there are over 2,000 Hispanics, most of them Mexican, most of whom appear to be variants of Amerindian. Many of them look distinctively Asian…
And , oh yes , none of them look alike.
Does “fafaroo” mean “I never use my brain when I post” in some foreign language ?
Wow, Frank! There over 2,000 Hispanics in your neighborhood? I would love to visit such a multicultural town so that I could become as learned as you about these “Hispanics” you speak of.
We just don’t get the chance to interact with so many people of different races and cultures where I live. Los Angeles.
Yo mama: “I don’t know why you bother. I’ve realized something lately about the regulars on this blog. The majority of them are race-obsessed kooks.”
There is real racism in the world, and the GOP is a prime example of this.
Remember, the guy who came in second place to lead the RNC had to quit his WHITES ONLY COUNTRY CLUB after he announced he was running for the head of the RNC.
Got that? The guy who came in second place belonged to a WHITES ONLY COUNTRY CLUB! In the year 2008, there are still WHITES ONLY COUNTRY CLUBS and they are considered normal enough by some that a until very recent member of a WHITES ONLY COUNTRY CLUB came in second place for the head of the RNC.
“CS – not stupid, but a race-obsessed committed liberal. Pretty par for the course here. Does make thought out comments at least.”
I’m not race-obsessed, but I can see racism when it is staring me in the face. And the fact that there are WHITES ONLY COUNTRY CLUBS and a high, high ranking member of the GOP belonged to one is a sign of racism.
“Hopefully, the “evil white people” won’t getcha!”
WHITES ONLY COUNTRY CLUB! If that doesn’t get you blood boiling, then you are part of the problem.
Frank, I don’t think it’s a good idea for a guy who called poor blacks “feral” to lecture people about race.
Zython: It is never a good idea to spread the same lie you tried to spread before , again.
Fafaroo, I don’t mean I live here , and Mexicans live “somewhere way the hell over there“.
I live in a Mexican neigborhood. Maybe all Mexicans look alike to you, when you’re whizzing through their community in your Volvo, but that is not the case with me .
when you’re whizzing through their community in your Volvo,
But all strawmen look alike, don’t they?
Well now that Yo’s being a drama queen and has gone galt on OW.com, you other trolls are going to have some slack to pick up.
Positive racism is still racism. Saying ‘Asians are good at math’ is a racist statement. Just saying. There are a million ways they could have suggested wise without caricaturing an ethnicity.
I just saw some tape of Judge Sotomayor, and she looks like she might be Asian — her skin is light , nearly white ,and her epicanthic fold is nearly missing.
Frank, this is a dopey argument. The fact that she is a somewhat light-skinned latina doesn’t mean jack. What exactly does that have to do with placing her in Buddhist monk trappings?
committed liberal.
And I love this phrase. I’m going to start saying ‘committed right-winger’ or ‘committed conservative.’
Parthenon: “Positive racism is still racism. Saying ‘Asians are good at math’ is a racist statement. Just saying. There are a million ways they could have suggested wise without caricaturing an ethnicity.”
She could be black, and drawing here like that would be racist, because that caricature of Asians is racist.
Drawing McCain as a Sambo caricature would be racist. I would be fucking weird, as well, but it would be 100% racist .
People are seriously debating someone whose username is a racist caricature as though they were arguing in good faith?
It is self evident to all of those who live in the real world that the National Review is a magazine that was founded to support segregation and has never once in it’s existence stepped back from it’s founding racist ideology. It’s a shame that so many “conservatives” seem to feel that attacking racism is an attack on conservatism, though it’s become something of a self-fulfilling prophesy as non-racist conservatives want less and less to do with movement conservatism.
I live in a Mexican neigborhood. Maybe all Mexicans look alike to you, when you’re whizzing through their community in your Volvo, but that is not the case with me .
You’re too much, Frank. Maybe you should try living in a community where there are not just Latinos, but Latinos from many different countries and cultures, and also Asians from dozens of countries and cultures, as well. Then maybe you could tell the difference.
(you’re original comment and subsequent idiocies, was particularly hilarious to me as I recently returned from Mexico City where a friend told me she was sick and tired of Americans telling that she looked Japanese. True story!)
“Grendel72″: “People are seriously debating someone whose username ["yo mama"] is a racist caricature as though they were arguing in good faith?”
LOL.
“It is self evident to all of those who live in the real world that the National Review is a magazine that was founded to support segregation and has never once in it’s existence stepped back from it’s founding racist ideology.”
And yet it’s sleazy right wing editor, Rich Lowry, gets a regular seat on national TV, the Sunday talk shows, and even PBS NewsHour.
When “conservatism” is represented by people like Republican Jeff ‘thought the KKK were great guys until finding out some of them smoke dope’ Sessions and no one in the conservative movement call those leaders out, then the “conservative” movement becomes defined by it’s racist leaders.
What’s worse is that not only are they doing a racist caricature of Sotomayor, but also of Siddhartha Buddha.
LOL,
My but we are a bunch of hot house flowers here. Oliver plays the race card blatantly maybe 1/2 the time. Now this;
“Parthenon: “Positive racism is still racism. Saying ‘Asians are good at math’ is a racist statement. Just saying. .”
Give me a break, ask a math teacher. Would it be acceptable to say statistically speaking asians are over represented when ranking for mathmatical proficiency?
No it would not. Its not racism when you tell the truth. It may not be polite but it is not racism.
And neither is the flip side of the coin, you might not like to hear it, it may be in poor taste to say it, being impolite, but it is not racism. And quite frankly most of you guys are way past the bounds of polite behavior in your remarks so you more or less have it coming.
fafaroo: What do you think I am? A yokel , because I don’t live in the City of Angels? I live 35 minutes from New York City .
Talk about elitist!
I happen to know what Asians and Hispanics look like …
Perhaps you’ve heard of the Bering Straits ?
I have been in Asia , and Texas and California, and studied Anthropology for 40 years …
Stop being a dolt , and face the facts : You accused me of being some kind of ignorant bigot , when you know nothing about me …
Just quit while you’re behind, mkay?
“… when you know nothing about me …”
Frank, I know that you’re willing excuse racist caricatures with simple rationalizations, such as arguing that sometimes it’s hard to tell Latinos and Asians apart.
Amused Observer, you’re an idiot. Trust me, Asians don’t like to be told that they’re good at math. Or good students. Or other stupid racial stereotypes that you think are positive. They’re annoying, they pigeon-hole and they have an obvious counter stereotype associated with them too. Treat people as individuals. I don’t understand why conservatives are so against this.
And neither is the flip side of the coin, you might not like to hear it, it may be in poor taste to say it, being impolite, but it is not racism.
Oh Amused, please do tell. What impolite truths are you talking about? Care to share a few?
Ok, fafaroo, you win …
I’m a racist because I acknowledge that races exist and that people have differing and similar physiognomies .
Blah, blah, yadda, yadda, yadda …
See amused observer above ….
Further , I have attributed no behavioral or cognitive characteristics to any race whatever , positive or negative, yet I am a racist.
Right .
Ok, fafaroo, you win …
Thank you, Frank. I appreciate you acknowledging this so quickly.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
I’m a racist because I acknowledge that races exist and that people have differing and similar physiognomies .
No, you were suggesting that Sotomayor was lying about her race. Mistaking racial identities happens, but it’s nothing to be proud of.
I have been in Asia , and Texas and California
So have I, what’s your point?
They’re annoying, they pigeon-hole and they have an obvious counter stereotype associated with them too.
This is true. Positive sterotypes have roots in negative ones. For example, saying that Jews are good with money is a positive one, but one which evolved from the stereotype of being miserly and greedy.
Further , I have attributed no behavioral or cognitive characteristics to any race whatever , positive or negative, yet I am a racist.
What the hell are you talking about? Do physical characteristics not matter? You’ve been defending a magazine cover that has portrayed Sotomayor, as well as the Buddha, as slant-eyed and bucked toothed. How is that NOT racist?
AO: “Give me a break, ask a math teacher. Would it be acceptable to say statistically speaking asians are over represented when ranking for mathmatical proficiency?
No it would not. Its not racism when you tell the truth. It may not be polite but it is not racism.”
It is racism when you generalize about a group based on certain individuals. In fact, that is the definition of racism.
‘There are some Asians that are good at math, therefore, Asians are good at math’ is not logically sound, but it certainly is racist.
The fact that you can’t even recognize it as racist speaks volumes about you.
Frank DiSalle: “Ok, fafaroo, you win …
I’m a racist because I acknowledge that races exist and that people have differing and similar physiognomies .”
Ummm… Frank, the races don’t exist is a biological sense. They are purely social constructs.
The colour of your skin makes as much difference as the colour of your eyes.
No, you were suggesting that Sotomayor was lying about her race
I suggested no such thing…
Ummm… Frank, the races don’t exist is a biological sense. They are purely social constructs.
Ummm, CS [I call your condescension , and raise you some patronization] … that “races don’t exist” is debatable, at the least. Many anthropologists, uncomfortable with the abuse of the knowledge that races exist, would like to define it away.
Other anthropologists agree that there are more differences within the human race than there are between the human race and other species.
Condescension is freakin’ annoying, especially when you are colossally, stupendously wrong .
Frank: “Condescension is freakin’ annoying, especially when you are colossally, stupendously wrong .”
Fortunately, I’m not wrong.
Race is purely a social construct. End. Of. Story.
There is nothing biological about Asians that make them good at math, for instance. Even purely physical traits associated with races are more generalizations and not hard rules.
While you think you can tell someone who is ‘black’ and ‘white’ based on outward appearances, this is not always the case. Additionally, there are outward differences in appearance between Maasai and Pygmies that are greater than those between ‘whites’ and ‘Asians’, yet they are considered the same ‘race.’
So where do you draw the line? If the concept of race was biological, then there would be rules one could follow.
“Many anthropologists, uncomfortable with the abuse of the knowledge that races exist, would like to define it away.”
Wrong, Frank. There was no true, scientific definition for race to begin with. In fact, it would be easier to argue racism came before race, and that the definition of race was developed in order to justify racist beliefs.
“Other anthropologists agree that there are more differences within the human race than there are between the human race and other species.”
And if you look at each individual ‘race’, you will see more variation between members of that ‘race’ than between the various ‘races.’
Unlike the definition of ’species’, there is no biological basis for ‘race’.
CS : Get an education elsewhere , not for free, from me .
If the concept of race was biological, then there would be rules one could follow.
The fact that there is more difference within a race , than there is between races, only indicates that there are diffences between the
Just because you don’t know the rules, doesn’t mean there aren’t any.
I will give you a hint though : check your handy dandy search engine for “mitochondrial DNA” +race
Keep the quotation marks and the “+” sign
Right wing extremist “Frank DiSalle”: “I’m a racist”
Recognizing the problem is the first step.
We belong to the human race.
Do you think you belong to a different “race”, “Frank”?
LOL,
Science rears its ugly head. DNA is quite effective at sifting facts from opinion regarding human origins, similarities, and differences.
CS,
“Ummm… Frank, the races don’t exist is a biological sense. They are purely social constructs”
Would you say the differences between a poodle and a german shepard are purely social constructs?
Perhaps the term breed is one you can grasp. News got closer to the truth than ever before with the statement that we are all members of the human race. Close, we are all members of the human species. Meaning we can produce viable offspring between differing races or breeds.
“Treat people as individuals. I don’t understand why conservatives are so against this.”
OMG, That is all that conservatives want. You’ve just gutted affirmative action and its brother with the same mother “diversity”, identity politics, hate crimes, improved education and restored the meritocracy. Its so refreshing to hear from someone with your point of view.
Would you say the differences between a poodle and a german shepard are purely social constructs?
Absolutely, since they are the products of artificial selection, in which differences are identified and bred for regardless of the advantage to the dog. OTOH, dogs gone feral quickly breed back to a more generalized morphology once artificial selection is removed.
If you bred the children of NBA athletes exclusively with the children of other NBA athletes, you would after a few generations come up with a population of very tall people, but fortunately our society does not work that way.
Every isolated population has physical characteristics common to it, and as pattern seeking animals we try to identify these and impute them to something, but in fact there is no biological concept of “race.”
There is, however a SOCIAL concept of race, and cultures will choose for their own purposes inferior and superior groups, often identified by physical characteristics which commonly go under the heading of race. Because each society enforces its own social constructs, it doesn’t matter that biologically there is no such thing as “race.” The social construct has been used against minority groups as effectively as an actual biological difference might.
If you or I went to India, we might meet a member of the “untouchable” caste and a member of the Brahmin caste, the other end of the social spectrum. Outside of their clothing, we would not be able to distinguish one from the other, but I can assure you, their neighbors can, and would identify the untouchables as a “race” distinct from the Brahmin even if we can’t tell the difference.
Frank DiSalle: “CS : Get an education elsewhere , not for free, from me .”
Of course I can’t get an education from you, since you don’t know what you are talking about.
“The fact that there is more difference within a race , than there is between races, only indicates that there are diffences between the…”
Lost your train of thought?
There are differences between people’s hair colors. That doesn’t make redheads a different race.
“Just because you don’t know the rules, doesn’t mean there aren’t any.”
And you know the rules? Ha! I’ve seen the rules, and how they have changed over the years. Remember the ‘One drop rule’?
“I will give you a hint though : check your handy dandy search engine for “mitochondrial DNA” +race
Keep the quotation marks and the “+” sign”
And using DNA you can tell the difference between French and German. It doesn’t make French and German different races.
Amused Observer: “Science rears its ugly head. DNA is quite effective at sifting facts from opinion regarding human origins, similarities, and differences.”
Yes it is. And science is on my side.
Me: “Ummm… Frank, the races don’t exist is a biological sense. They are purely social constructs”
AO: “Would you say the differences between a poodle and a german shepard are purely social constructs?”
One word… Labradoodle.
“Perhaps the term breed is one you can grasp.”
I can grasp the term ‘race’. I can also tell when it doesn’t apply. ‘Breed’ is something you see in animal husbandry, because selective breeding can be controlled in animal husbandry. It can’t be controlled in humans.
Michael Over Here: “Treat people as individuals. I don’t understand why conservatives are so against this.”
AO: “OMG, That is all that conservatives want.”
This from the man who said it wasn’t racist to be worried about crime rates going up when black people move into your neighbourhood.
“You’ve just gutted affirmative action and its brother with the same mother ‘diversity’, identity politics, hate crimes, improved education and restored the meritocracy. Its so refreshing to hear from someone with your point of view.”
Yes, that’s right, AO. The real problem isn’t racism, it’s people trying to combat racism. They are the evil fuckers, right?
Asshole.
AO: “Would you say the differences between a poodle and a german shepard are purely social constructs?”
Repack Rider: “Absolutely, … but I can assure you, their neighbors can, and would identify the untouchables as a ‘race’ distinct from the Brahmin even if we can’t tell the difference.”
Well… That’s a pretty solid destruction of the concept of race as it applies to humans.
I can’t wait to hear the lame rebuttals from the other side.
Frank, AO, I don’t know how long it’s been since your college days, but the current state of the research suggests that CSS is entirely correct – race is a skin-deep social construct.
I once quoted about half a dozen peer-reviewed scientific sources for AO on this very blog explicitly stating exactly that. He either dismissed them, never read them, ignored them or forgot, evidently.
“…but the current state of the research suggests that CSS is entirely correct…”
I never get tired of hearing that. … This is why I do my research before I post.
Right winger “Amused Observer”: “Would you say the differences between a poodle and a german shepard are purely social constructs?”
Comparing people to dogs brings to mind the right wing’s need for hierarchical social relationships. Right wingers need to either be dominant or to submit to dominant (alpha dog) types.
On the other hand, left wingers reject hierarchical social relationships (generally). Left wingers reject dominating and reject being dominated.
By right wingers standards, perhaps the right wing and left wing are different races?
More seriously, historically, “race” was/is a purely social construct. The divisions were often part of creating a social hierarchy by making the ‘other’ ‘less’.
“Race” was based on purely physical differences which made the artificial divisions easy to see.
By that arbitrary measure, are red heads a different “race”? Are blue eyed people a different “race”? Some would argue that they are, most would say that’s absurd.
The assertion that the “race” can be designated by genetics is questionable, at best, as science shows that “Mutations within populations have produced genetic differences among individuals that are greater than those among populations.”
“Science” is still catching up to the social construct of “race”.
The idea that the science of DNA can tell what your race is, is disputed:
“Molecular anthropologists are often asked if DNA markers can tell what “race” you are. The short answer is “no.” Mitochondrial DNA and Y haplogroups can tell from which continent your matrilineal and patrilineal ancestors came. And if you live in the Americas, autosomal mapping can tell what fraction of your ancestors came from Africa as slaves, what fraction came from Europe as colonists, and what fraction were Native Americans. But no DNA can tell your “race.”
Oddly, there is no contradiction between saying, “DNA cannot tell what race you are,” and saying, “DNA can tell where your ancestors came from.”"
It’s noteworthy that the right wingers here are quite obsessed about carving the human race into separate races and yet quite shrilly complain when it’s pointed out to them.
LOL,
Repack comes close! “Every isolated population has physical characteristics common to it, and as pattern seeking animals we try to identify these and impute them to something, but in fact there is no biological concept of “race”
Please note: I said breed is a better concept than race. We are all of the same species, we are all not of the same breed or as some would have it race.
Breeds come from genetic isolation or manipulation until a distinct group breeds true. Throughout most of human history war, trade, and exploration have been the primary means that relatively isolated groups of people have had new genes introduced into thier populations.
Much of the world’s human population would now be technically labeled hybrid. But there are still large blocks of relatively homogeneous gene pools.
Amused Observer: “LOL,”
Why do you type ‘LOL’ at the beginning of nearly every post? Especially when almost nothing you say is funny. It makes you sound like a retard.
“Please note: I said breed is a better concept than race.”
Better? Perhaps. Truly accurate? No.
There is no scientific definition for race / breed that wouldn’t also apply to redheads, for instance. You can use DNA to tell the difference between Southern and Norther Slavic people, that doesn’t make them different breeds, and certainly not different races.
“Breeds come from genetic isolation or manipulation until a distinct group breeds true.”
While this is true in controlled settings like agriculture, it hasn’t happened to humans. We only left Africa about 60,000 years ago, and there have always been enough inter-breeding between groups to prevent any real distinction.
“Much of the world’s human population would now be technically labeled hybrid.”
Hybrid what? You haven’t proven there are distinctive enough groups to create hybrids from.
…and restored the meritocracy.
I would be fascinated to know at what point the meritocracy vanished. Amused, you want to give us a year or some event?
Frank DiSalle and Amused Observer: Supporting racially stereotyping eastern deities since 2009.
I say LOL because you guys are so lame in your arguements its funny.
Parthenon, it is no great trick in this age of pc madness to find published peer reviewed works to bolster your case. That doesn’t make it any more valid. Race, breed, we’re talking semantics for isolated breeding groups. We forget that the mobility we experience today is a rather new thing. Its a lot more than skin deep. Different “races” of people react to certain drugs in different ways. They have different bone structure and muscle type. Thier bodies respond to disease differently, sickle cell anemia is a bummer unless you live near malarial swamps. Etc. etc. etc.
CS, Are you really as dim as you seem? Your theory of socially constructed races that don’t exist yet breed true? LOL are you crazy. Do you think that is random chance.
Our own stock of Africans here is often lighter than native Africans. Why do you suppose that is? There are a lot of crackers in the woodpile so to speak, or another term would be hybrid.
Fafaroo, see affirmative action, legalized discrimination. Upcoming Ricci court case etc.
Parthenon, it is no great trick in this age of pc madness to find published peer reviewed works to bolster your case. That doesn’t make it any more valid.
I just love cons sometimes. They’ll bring on MTV’s Kurt Loder to talk health care but discount Steven Jay Gould.
Race, breed, we’re talking semantics for isolated breeding groups.
That is true, but it’s a candle next to the sun. There have developed miniscule differences between long distant (but infinitesimally brief on an evolutionary scale) cultures, simply because of heredity. Your german shephard and poodle analogy above is nonsense; more like two german shepards of different colors and maybe one’s got slightly longer legs.
Nobody has argued that heredity doesn’t exist. But the concept of race is still a cultural myth with no biological basis.
AO: “I say LOL because you guys are so lame in your arguements its funny.”
Yet you can’t dispute them. Now that’s funny.
“Race, breed, we’re talking semantics for isolated breeding groups.”
I can tell the difference between Scottish and British. Slavic and Teutons. That doesn’t make them difference races, or even different breeds.
“CS, Are you really as dim as you seem? Your theory of socially constructed races that don’t exist yet breed true? LOL are you crazy. Do you think that is random chance.”
You want to try saying that again? I think you are missing a couple words, because what you said doesn’t make any sense. Perhaps you are missing a coma, or functioning braincells.
Going by what I think you are saying…
In order for different populations to become different races, there has to be isolation for many, many generations. This is not fucking semantics. That has never happened in the history of the human species.
Are there groups with hereditary differences? Yes.
Does that make them a different race? No.
You can’t pick out any group with some hereditary trait and call them a different race or breed.
AO: “Parthenon, it is no great trick in this age of pc madness to find published peer reviewed works to bolster your case. That doesn’t make it any more valid.”
Parthenon: “I just love cons sometimes. They’ll bring on MTV’s Kurt Loder to talk health care but discount Steven Jay Gould.”
Their racist beliefs are backed up by solid, scientific evidence, and anyone who says otherwise is blinded by PC Madness!
That about sums up their arguments.
So according to Amused, meritocracy in America ended with affirmative action. For the 190 years before that, only the most qualified people got into the best schools, got the best jobs and earned the highest salaries. It was just coincidence they were almost entirely white men.
No Fafaroo,
Meritocracy really started with the education boom that the GI Bill kicked off. Before that very dedicated and bright students could find thier way into universities but it was quite difficult. But many did and the nation as a whole prospered.
The students returning to school after ww2 brought maturity and a can do attitude back with them. Standards were high but many succeeded and built lives very different from those of thier parents.
Affirmative Action is different. By setting aside places or adding points or needing fewer points to qualify for admission some people were not admitted whose scores earned them a spot. In employment it is even more blatant. The upcoming Ricci case is a good demonstration. Strangely enough minority men suffered a modest setback since minority women were a two-fer.
But anytime a candidate’s ethnic or gender identity trumps thier score or ability we have an erosion of merit.
CS,
You’re in over your head.
AO: “You’re in over your head.”
You are the one trying to equate any hereditary trait with a different race / breed. And you are doing this to further your racist beliefs.
“But anytime a candidate’s ethnic or gender identity trumps thier score or ability we have an erosion of merit.”
And that wasn’t happening before? You don’t think there are plenty of minorities would are not getting jobs or not getting into universities because of their ethnic or gender?
Do you really think racism is gone?
Affirmative action isn’t racist, it tries to correct for racism that exists.
Right winger “Amused Observer”: “it is no great trick in this age of pc madness to find published peer reviewed works to bolster your case. That doesn’t make it any more valid”
Right wingers have an astonishing capacity to dismiss science with one side of their mouth and then with the other side of their mouth right wingers claim definitive knowledge and speak in absolute terms without any evidence to support their assertions or conclusions.
When evidence is demanded they just make it up.
So in this thread “Amused Observer” is dismissing “peer reviewed” science journals while in another thread he cites the innumerate fiction writer Amity Shlaes as an authority.
Right wingers fanaticism is so ingrained that someone like “Amused Observer”, trying to argue against the right wing’s pattern racism, can use language like, “Our own stock of Africans” and refer to people as “breeding groups”, without any self-awareness.
LOL,
It’s hard to defend a system that revolves around the practice of racial discrimination.
“You are the one trying to equate any hereditary trait with a different race / breed.”
That is a vast oversimplification of my statement, so much so that it has no bearing on the topic.
Meritocracy really started with the education boom that the GI Bill kicked off.
And the GI Bill had an equal impact for whites and people of color, right?
Oh wait, totally wrong:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_n13_v14/ai_20031731/pg_2/?tag=content;col1
Amused, the GI Bill allowed more African Americans to attend college than ever before because it provided them with an economic means of doing so. It did not, however, mean that every college educated, qualified black was able to find work in the fields of their choice based on merit alone.
And gee, why did so many African Americans end up seeking and find work in education and the civil service after the GI Bill? I wonder if it had anyting to do with this:
http://www.now.org/nnt/08-95/affirmhs.html
Amused, based on your grasp of history and your debating skills, I’m gonna guess you really shouldn’t hope for the “return of meritocracy.” I really don’t think you could cut it.
Fafaroo,
If I’m going up against you it won’t even be close.
“take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin.”
Which part of that do you not get. Kennedy is merely echoing the equal protection clause of the Constitution. Legalized discrimination is specifically prohibited by that language not specifically allowed.
What Affimative Action evolved into, a system of set asides, quotas, uneven test standards, and legalized discrimination is not what Kennedy had in mind.
Affirmative action for right wingers: Anointing the incompetent Bush 2, appointing the incompetent Sarah Palin, appointing the unqualified Clarence Thomas, appointing the incompetent Michael “Katrina Disaster Brown, amongst a long list of others (Dan Quayle, Monica Goodling, Porter J. Goss, et al.).
And here is right winger “Amused Observer”, a huge fan of the incompetent Republican Vice Presidential Candidate Sarah Palin, whose choice revealed both Republican John McCain’s failure to value competence but also his cravenness, spouting nonsense about “meritocracy”.
Amused Observer: “LOL,”
Fucking retard.
AO: “It’s hard to defend a system that revolves around the practice of racial discrimination.”
This from a man who claimed it was okay to worry about crime going up when minorities move into your neighbourhood.
And combating racism will necessitate treating people differently based on their ‘race’, as people are treated differently based on their ‘race’ due to racism. You don’t say, ‘There is systemic racism against African-Americans, which adversely affects their educational and job opportunities. To combat this, we are going to do absolutely nothing, because if we did anything, we could be treating them differently because they are African-Americans.’
Me: “You are the one trying to equate any hereditary trait with a different race / breed.”
AO: “That is a vast oversimplification of my statement, so much so that it has no bearing on the topic.”
Then you can restate what you said and explain how it differs from my restatement.
Otherwise one can assume you just can defend your original position.
AO: “Fafaroo, If I’m going up against you it won’t even be close.”
You got that right. You’re a laughing simpleton, and Fafaroo could debate circles around you.
Me: “Otherwise one can assume you just can defend your original position.”
Oops. That should say “can’t”. You just can’t defend your original position.
When I served in the Army during the sixties, the proportion of the career NCO and officer corps that was Black was far ahead of their percentage of the population. I suspect that is because the Army WAS a meritocracy. There was no question that these people were equally qualified for the jobs as their White colleagues, but the White officers and NCOs could get good jobs outside the Army, so they didn’t stick around in such numbers.
Which part of that do you not get.
The part where you insisted that the GI Bill alone created a race-blind meritocracy undone by affirmative action. Largely, because this is clearly not the case.
Amused, America never was and never has been a “meritocracy.” For generations, right up until recently, whole private professions were closed to people of different races, no matter how qualified they were. The American system has long been “a system of set asides, quotas, uneven test standards, and legalized discrimination” that benefited whites regardless of their actual qualifications or abilities. Affirmative action was and is designed to counteract that.
That is an observation made of the facts on the ground and could very well be true. I was surprised and quite impressed with the quality of military education when my boy went through. It was extremely demanding and if you did well they gave you more and more.
I believe some of the reasons are the military has a huge pool of labor to draw from so standards are high and you have the freedom to fail. If you wash out there are plenty of other things you can be trained to do. In contrast if you can’t cut it at college you may be without anything practical to show for your efforts.
CS,
Rather than have me restate what I have already written I suggest you reread my post. My position has not changed. As a Canadian you have a lot of damn gall to suggest that we in the USA disregard our Constitution to suit your fancy.
Fafaroo,
The equal protection of the law which the 14th amendment provides is the basis upon which you have the right to try and achieve anything you want. But quotas, adding points, or using lower criteria creates a system where merit is penalized not rewarded. The upcoming Ricci case is a classic example.
I suspect you defend a program of targeted discrimination because it favors you personally. Support of formal discrimination on the one hand while complaining about discrimination with the other destroys your credibility.
Hey “yo mama”,
Funny how someone who censors ‘g-d’ would complain about others being offended by speech.
The equal protection of the law which the 14th amendment provides is the basis upon which you have the right to try and achieve anything you want.
And if institutionalized racism exists in the world, well, tough shit.
And Amused, I’m a straight white guy working in the world of non-profit arts programming at a public, state-funded institution. Do you really think you can tell me how diversity in hiring has affected my job and career?
If you wash out there are plenty of other things you can be trained to do. In contrast if you can’t cut it at college you may be without anything practical to show for your efforts.
What? So people who drop out of college cannot be trained to do anything after that? That’s it? They’re done?
Not at all Fafaroo,
But applying for a job with a year short of a degree in an unrelated field isn’t the strongest of positions to be in. Failure at college can represent significant lost time, opportunity, and money.
While I am sure there is a sting in washing out of a course in the military standards are such that it is not unexpected. The stigma of failure isn’t there and you will have other opportuntities within the service.
The equal protection of the law which the 14th amendment provides is the basis upon which you have the right to try and achieve anything you want.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1365/is_7_34/ai_112647828/
Amused, those are such broad generalization they’re practically meaningless.
It’s not exactly like dropping out of college is some rare thing. And you’re forgetting that many people who find themselves in over their heads at one university often transfer to another or a community college and work their way back, or else graduate elsewhere.
That happened to a couple of friends of mine in undergrad and while their parents weren’t happy at the time, everything turned out fine. They weren’t stigmatized and the loss of time and money wasn’t so bad that they weren’t back on track within a year.
At the same time, I have no idea what point you’re trying to make with all this anyway.
Fafaroo,
Sorry to have confused you. I was replying to Repacks remarks about meritocracy in the military and my own second hand experiences with it.
I did not mean to imply that failure to achieve a degree was going to irrevocably ruin someones prospects. I meant that the high military standards are often designed to weed out all but the best. But everyone goes in knowing that and if they fail there are plenty of other things for them to do that might be a better fit.
Amused Observer: “CS,
Rather than have me restate what I have already written I suggest you reread my post. My position has not changed.”
As I thought. You are unwilling / unable to defend your position, so instead you are merely claiming I set up a strawman attack. But that’s an affirmative claim, and you must supply the evidence to back that up.
So tell me, how does your definition of race / breed include a distinction between white and black, but not Teuton and Slavic?
“As a Canadian you have a lot of damn gall to suggest that we in the USA disregard our Constitution to suit your fancy.”
Using the Constitution, which prohibits racism, to protect racism. That’s really fucked up, AO.
As Parthenon’s link points out, in order to make sure everyone is treated the same, which the 14th amendment says should happen, you must correct for systemic racism.
You will never accept that simple truth, because you are racist.
But everyone goes in knowing that and if they fail there are plenty of other things for them to do that might be a better fit.
And this is not true of college how?
CS,
Your correction for systemic racism by which I think you mean in the case that Parthenon links to is discrimination is to disregard the 14th amendment that guarantees equal protection and apply discrimination. Quite a paradox there. Your take seems to be it is perfectly acceptable to codify discrimination as long as out intentions are good despite any injustices that will occur and too bad about the citizens whose Constitutional rights are being violated by codified discrimination. That is just the price they have to pay for being better qualified but born within the wrong race which you claim doesn’t even exist anyway.
And this makes me a racist but not you?
As to your question regarding Teutons and Slavs I don’t know enough about thier history to comment intelligently. There may be considerable overlap of thier gene pools through war and trade. Gods knows they are all a quarrelsome bunch.
….can you honestly imagine the misery involved with hanging out with people such as CS, Duros, etc? Can you imagine the negativity, the stunningly humorless environment that would create?
Man, you’re funny.
Duros: least intelligent person on this blog. Has yet to ever respond with any valid point or thought out response. Is only capable of childish insults and cliche sarcasm. Perhaps young and naive, if not that, then he’s just a dim bulb. Not really worth responding to most the time.
What the hell? Where does it say in this blog that snark is not allowed? You don’t know me, and guess what, you’re wrong.
Bite me, blog Nazi.
Though I will agree with you about Quaker in a Basement.
Myself personally, I’m done with this blog. I won’t link to or waste my time with this diningenuous, race-whining anymore. And you guys shouldn’t either.
Later folks. Have fun walking around miserable and pissed off all the time. Hopefully, the “evil white people” won’t getcha!
Well, you’ll be missed, AO.
Oh wait, no you won’t.
Wow, Frank! There over 2,000 Hispanics in your neighborhood? I would love to visit such a multicultural town so that I could become as learned as you about these “Hispanics” you speak of.
In Frank’s upstate NY town? Somehow I doubt it.
Sorry, not AO, YM.
What’s worse is that not only are they doing a racist caricature of Sotomayor, but also of Siddhartha Buddha
Indeed, a slap in the face to all Cyan-Americans.
I have been in Asia , and Texas and California, and studied Anthropology for 40 years …
I thought you were retired from the IRS.
Amused Observer: “CS,
Your correction for systemic racism by which I think you mean in the case that Parthenon links to is discrimination is to disregard the 14th amendment that guarantees equal protection and apply discrimination.”
Wrong. It is not discrimination to correct for discrimination.
It is not racist to combat racism.
Your argument falls apart at this point, and the rest is immaterial.
(Notice I said you were wrong, and explained why you were wrong. If I had just said, ‘Nope.’ and you asked for clarification, I would have to give it.)
“As to your question regarding Teutons and Slavs I don’t know enough about thier history to comment intelligently.”
That puts you one step ahead of Sean D. Martin and J.G.Thayer, who will comment on things they have no knowledge of.
But you could have at least come up with a similar example that you do have enough knowledge about.
How about ‘Asians’ and ‘Native Americans’? Are they a different race / breed? If so, why? If not, why not?
“There may be considerable overlap of thier gene pools through war and trade. Gods knows they are all a quarrelsome bunch.”
Yet you can use the same genetic tests to tell them apart, just as you can between ‘white’ and ‘black’.
Yo Mama: “….can you honestly imagine the misery involved with hanging out with people such as CS, Duros, etc? Can you imagine the negativity, the stunningly humorless environment that would create?”
Duros62: “Man, you’re funny.”
I make a joke about conservative making bitter tasting soylent green, J.G.Thayer doesn’t even recognize it as humor, but our side is the humorless bunch.
These people turn projection into an Olympic sport.
I suspect you defend a program of targeted discrimination because it favors you personally.
I’m pretty sure AA doesn’t apply to Jews. Nice try.
The equal protection of the law which the 14th amendment provides is the basis upon which you have the right to try and achieve anything you want.
True, but you don’t have the “right” to get what you want.
AO, the reason you and your ilk can’t get anywhere in life isn’t because of those minorities “takin’ yer jerbs”, it’s because your work sucks. You see a minority get ahead of you and immediately cast blame on the “other”, rather than trying to improve yourself. Seeing entitled snobs like yourself fail just proves that the system is working.
Zython
I sincerely doubt any minority is ever going to take my job away from me. I might lose a contract that has been set aside for a favored identity group member if I chose to bid on public sector work.
Why do you think jews are over represented in the hard sciences and professions and seem to have an easier time
going through the educational process?
I might lose a contract that has been set aside for a favored identity group member if I chose to bid on public sector work.
Again, I don’t think the government is going to give a housing project contract to someone whose buildings collapse after 2 years.
Why do you think jews are over represented in the hard sciences and professions and seem to have an easier time
going through the educational process?
Because the hardcore Christians boycott those fields? What?
AO: “Why do you think jews are over represented in the hard sciences and professions and seem to have an easier time
going through the educational process?”
Why do you think Republicans are having a hard time attracting minorities? Could it be because there are so many racist asshole like you in their ranks?
Now, why do you think there are so many racist asshole Republicans?
By the way…
How about ‘Asians’ and ‘Native Americans’? Are they a different race / breed? If so, why? If not, why not?
Zython,
Don’t be coy.
“Because the hardcore Christians boycott those fields? What?”
Seriously, why is it that Jews are over represented in those fields?
AO: “Seriously, why is it that Jews are over represented in those fields?”
Two points…
1.) Are they?
2.) Why do you think they are.
Two points…
Can I take a shot?
1.) Are they?
No.
2.) Why do you think they are.
Because we bribe people with our secret stashes of Jew Gold! Doy!
Zython,
I didn’t see this post until I had made another one in another thread.
1. Are they? You are being too modest. Yes they are as you well know. At something like 2% of the population
they’ve provided something like 25% of the nobel prizes won by Americans. Ashkenzi jews repeatedly test out as the group of people with the highest I.Q.
2. Why are they that way? One big reason is culture. Jews have a long record of revering scholarship and education. Another reason is the wise decision to mark jewishness by maternal descent. And another, is for many long years in the diaspora jews were prohibited from making a living as normal tradesmen and artisans. Christian laws prohibiting usury left moneylending as a viable way to eke out a living. Living by one’s wits sharpens those wits. Etc. Etc. Etc.
The only foolish thing I can see jews doing is political.
But that is another tangent.
And one more thing Zython, anything I build isn’t falling down in two years. I’m damn good at what I do.
AO: “One big reason is culture.”
Is culture part of race / breed?
By the way, are ‘Asians’ and ‘Native Americans’? Are they a different race / breed? If so, why? If not, why not?
CS
Sometimes you give a remarkable imitation of an idiot.
Nature vs Nurture is a long standing area of controversy. The jews have done a remarkable job of keeping thier gene pool intact. By linking membership in the tribe through the maternal side, the little bastards spawned as wild oats with the local gentile girls are often not included in the tribe unless the girl converts. That keeps the traditions and culture intact. The poor jewish girl who finds herself with child, often a violent rape during a pogram etc., is granted the protection of the tribe, the child gets a proper education and again the traditions and culture remain intact.
Revering education and learning as they do, intelligence plays a larger role in determining breeding priority to put it rather crudely. This has created a feedback loop that in the end has developed basically the smartest dogs in the world.
You are obsessed with the race/breed question. You are looking for a gotcha moment. If you study the anthropology of North American natives starting from the north with the land bridge and working your way down to the tip of South America with a dna kit in hand you will find your answer. Expect to find significant portions of European blood starting at around say Mexico with sprinklings in the N.E. of the US and SE of Canada. Some African blood gets mixed in from the spanish plantations. Asians are quite a mixed bag themselves and certainly feel that significant differences exist between the various flavers of orientals. A breed is a fixed gene pool that breeds true. I would use the same terms to define race.
The modern progressive idea that race is a social construct is an attempt along with discrediting the idea of I.Q. to paper over the measurable differences between different groups for reasons of political correctness.
AO: “Sometimes you give a remarkable imitation of an idiot.”
And your idiocy is always 100% genuine.
I asked… “Is culture part of race / breed?”
And you go on about nature vs. nurture. I’m not asking you if IQ is dependent on nature or nurture, I’m asking if culture is part of your race / breed definition.
Because if it is, and it sounds like it from what you said, you are not going to find a lot of biologists that agree with you.
“You are obsessed with the race/breed question.”
That’s cause you refuse to answer it. You are still not answering it.
Give me a definition of race / breed that includes blacks and whites as different races, but doesn’t include Slavics and Teutons.
If you can’t define race / breed, how can you be so sure it’s real?
“The modern progressive idea that race is a social construct is an attempt along with discrediting the idea of I.Q. to paper over the measurable differences between different groups for reasons of political correctness.”
Translation: Amused Observer is a fucking racist asshole who is using outdated and discredited ideas as excuses for his racism.
There is no scientific definition for race, and there never was one. You can’t give one. You ‘know’ it exists, but you can’t define it.
LOL CS,
This can’t be good for your blood pressure. You are just itchin to use more scientific terms like “fucking racist asshole”
“There is no scientific definition for race, and there never was one”
I’ve said this over and over and over, A gene pool suffiently fixed to breed true. Maybe the word strain is more palatable to you. But what the hell CS, lets look it up;
Main Entry: race
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza
Date: 1580
1: a breeding stock of animals
2 a: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics
3 a: an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species ; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b: breed c: a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits
As I said in a different thread:
Right winger “Amused Observer’s” racist rhetoric has included talking about: “Our own stock of Africans”, referring to certain people as “breeding groups”, and he’s now added referring to Jews as “basically the smartest dogs in the world.”.
Right winger “Amused Observer” is now clearly saying that white Europeans are inferior to Jews.
And right winger “Amused Observer” is also saying that white Europeans were inferior to Asians.
Perhaps he could be more specific about explaining his view of racial hierarchy.
Amused Observer: “LOL”
Fucking laughing retard.
“This can’t be good for your blood pressure.”
I’ll add my health to the massive list of things you know nothing about.
Me: “There is no scientific definition for race, and there never was one”
AO: “I’ve said this over and over and over, A gene pool suffiently fixed to breed true.”
AND THIS HAS NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED IN HUMANS!
“But what the hell CS, lets look it up;”
Yes. Let’s finally look it up…
“1: a breeding stock of animals”
Doesn’t apply to human beings, as we have never controlled our breeding habits in any meaningful way.
“2 a: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics”
Purely a social construct. One that would treat us as members of a different race.
“3 a: an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species ; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b: breed c: a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits”
So ‘Redheads’ are now a race, because they share a ‘distinctive physical trait.’
Again… I’m asking a very simple question. Define ‘race / breed / strain’, or whatever term you want to use today, in such a way that you can tell the difference between ‘whites’ and ‘blacks’, but doesn’t separate Teutons from Slavs.
You claim there is a biological difference and that the separations between whites and blacks is not purely sociological, so prove it.
Come up with a fucking definition that does what you says it should.
And stop fucking stalling.
CS,
You sir, are an obstinate fool. I’ve complied with your rather rudely put request a dozen times over. Reread my posts and look for a common thread. Better yet, immerse yourself in the library and start to read about history. Study early warfare and the displacement of various groups of people. Don’t forget to read Darwin’s famous book. Follow this with some basics on genetics.
And seriously CS, watch that blood pressure. Look into taking some sort of antidepressants. It can’t possibly be pleasant to go through life perpetually angry and terminally ignorant.
“You sir, are an obstinate fool”, says the dishonest right wing racist, “Amused Observer”.
Another reason is the wise decision to mark jewishness by maternal descent.
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
Living by one’s wits sharpens those wits. Etc. Etc. Etc.
And sharpens your noses too. amirite, fellas? Can I get a what, what?
Reread my posts and look for a common thread.
Oh, believe me, we found a common thread.
“You claim there is a biological difference and that the separations between whites and blacks is not purely sociological, so prove it.”
Strictly speaking, there has to be a biological difference between “races” on some level. It is not as though a black woman, impregnated by a black man, will give birth to a child with strictly Asian features. Although that would be a hell of a trick.
But I don’t believe that I’ve truly hit on the crux of your argument, so you two can feel free to carry on…
AO: “You sir, are an obstinate fool. I’ve complied with your rather rudely put request a dozen times over.”
No you haven’t.
You claim ‘race’ is real and not a social construct.
For this to be true, there would have to be a definition of ‘race’ that would separate blacks and white, which are said to be different races, but would not separate Teutons and Slavs, which are not.
You have not given this definition.
“And seriously CS, watch that blood pressure. Look into taking some sort of antidepressants.
Watch this…
youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0
This is me. … Not literally. It’s David Lynch.
But like Lynch, I can tell someone off and drop an F-bomb and not have my blood pressure go up.
I’ve explained this a number of times, but obviously you, J.G.Thayer, Sean D. Martin, Dennis the Bigot, and others don’t understand this simple fact.
I’m not in a rage when I swear at you guys and insult you.
I am, at the most, perplexed that you can be as stupid as you are and still not accidentally killed yourself.
… And while you are over at YouTube, watch this…
youtube.com/watch?v=UfLAv3JHRwY
That’s seriously fucked up.
“It can’t possibly be pleasant to go through life perpetually angry and terminally ignorant.”
You would know, as you are both. You are also incredibly racist, as this thread has shown.
mambochicken23: “Strictly speaking, there has to be a biological difference between ‘races’ on some level. It is not as though a black woman, impregnated by a black man, will give birth to a child with strictly Asian features. Although that would be a hell of a trick.”
There is definitely genetics and heritage. You would have to be some kind of creationist not to think that. However, this is true of black skin vs. white skin, as well as blue eyes vs. white eyes.
Why is skin colour considered ‘race’ while eye colour is not?
Because ‘race’ was defined based on sociological factors and not biological ones.
Awwww… Did Amused Observer run away?
Amused Observer says race is based in biology, so what biological factors can be used to differential between whites and blacks, and not Slavs and Teutons? Or Blue-eyed and Brown-eyed people?
You made a claim, now back it up with facts.