This is the vast socialist plot that has Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, and the rest of the GOP braying at the moon and wetting their beds over. (via)
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There Is A Demon, Socialism Be His Name
June 4th, 2009
26 Comments
Fair enough. At what percentage does it become a problem?
Well, how does one define socialism? If you define it as state ownership of the means of production then we don’t have much to worry about. But then again, who really does this? Even the Europeans don’t have many government-owned enterprises. Hell, the Europeans are probably more capitalist in this regard than we are, given their privatization of things like the railways, post offices and airports than we don’t even dream of.
Nationalization isn’t what scares me — it’s overregulation. Barack Obama isn’t going to take over the hospitals, he will simply use regulation to take over health care and squash the role of the private sector. I doubt that government will permanently keep ownership of the auto companies, rather they will simply pass laws and strengthen existing ones such as CAFE that mandate what cars they produce.
And all the while the percentage of our taxes taken by the government will continue to increase.
This graph is simply a strawman.
Perhaps “socialism” is being used beyond its proper bounds. I think what you describe is the real fear. I still think 0.21% is still 0.21% too much, though.
Clearly the cataclysmic failure of predatory capitalism that pushed us to the edge of a Second Great Depression is superior to having a functioning economy that is assisted and overseen by a government with our national interest* in mind.
/snark
* national interest: it’s in our national interest not to let predatory capitalism drown itself in it’s own greedy bile.
It’s in our national interest to be able to compete effectively with the foreign nations that the right wing has been selling out our manufacturing base to these last 30 plus years.
It’s in our national interest not to have a financial system that is based on anarchists seeing who can loot the country more and leave for Dubai the fastest.
Right wing economic theories precipitated a financial failure so vast that it butchered our American economy even as it sold out our manufacturing strengths to foreign interests.
Right wing economic philosophy is a failure as a theory and has been a disaster in practice.
This graph is simply a strawman.
The graph is a reasonable response to right wing dildos screeching “Socialism!” That’s it; that’s all.
Nationalization isn’t what scares me — it’s overregulation.
You, sir, are a cartoon.
Fair enough. At what percentage does it become a problem?
More than that, ok?
More than that, ok?
And that’s exactly why even this little sliver upsets me. You won’t care until it’s too late.
Too late for what? What is the worst thing that could happen? The government makes cars? Oh NOES!!!!1111!!!
Calm down, for chrissakes.
Government direct ownership is the wrong metric when looking for evidence of socialism. Far better is to look at regulation, because with regulation government gets the control without having to pay for the costs. Size of last year’s Federal Register: over 80,000 pages.
This graph is looking at the wrong metric.
Colin-
Define ‘over regulation’. Mandating that paint cannot contain lead? Mandating that no-one under 21 may purchase alcohol? Mandating that vehicles sold in the U.S. must meet sprecific emissions standards? Where is the line?
And all the while the percentage of our taxes taken by the government will continue to increase.
Gee, right now the government (local, state, federal) takes 100% of my taxes. What percent of your taxes do they take? Ur an idiot, Colin.
he will simply use regulation to take over health care and squash the role of the private sector.
Spoken like somebody who’s never lived in fear of losing their health insurance or of going bankrupt because of one bad health issue.
The private sector, the “medicine-for-profit” model, is an abomination. So was the deregulated banking nonsense that brought us to our current economic crisis and the frivolous stewardship of the auto industry.
If the private sector had been willing to promote somebody with a shred of (a) empathy and (b) common sense to these industries, the government would not have had to step in at all.
And your response is to allow business to continue as usual? No. I’m sorry. No. When Billy kills his hamster by playing too roughly with it you either give him stricter rules for his next hamster or you simply don’t give him another one.
Gee, right now the government (local, state, federal) takes 100% of my taxes. What percent of your taxes do they take? Ur an idiot, Colin.
An obvious mistake on my part, but I think you know what I mean.
Define ‘over regulation’. Mandating that paint cannot contain lead? Mandating that no-one under 21 may purchase alcohol? Mandating that vehicles sold in the U.S. must meet sprecific emissions standards? Where is the line?
It’s like art, you know it when you see it. A Federal Register at over 80,000 pages of rules, however, suggests we have long ago crossed the threshold.
Spoken like somebody who’s never lived in fear of losing their health insurance or of going bankrupt because of one bad health issue.
I’ve lost my health insurance on more than one occasion. Currently I am without employer provided health insurance. So I went out and bought some of my own.
The private sector, the “medicine-for-profit” model, is an abomination.
This model has resulted in the US leading the way in many medical breakthroughs. That strikes me as something less than an abomination. A real abomination is the state of dentistry in the UK:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7881865.stm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1169764/NHS-scandal-I-dentist–Now-aged-21-Ive-teeth-removed.html#
But I’m sure government run health care will be a completely different story here, right?
So was the deregulated banking nonsense that brought us to our current economic crisis and the frivolous stewardship of the auto industry.
Explain how banking deregulation led to the current crisis. Be specific. I have no idea what your point about the auto industry is. That unionized industries tend to be uncompetitive? That regulation such as CAFE standards have been counterproductive?
And your response is to allow business to continue as usual?
Since you asked:
1. End the business tax deduction for medical and dental insurance. This is an artifact of World War II in which businesses began offering this as an inducement to workers because they were prohibited from raising wages as a means of combating inflation. The problems with this are legion:
* It makes workers more costly and companies less likely to hire them
* It makes workers less likely to leave their job for a new one
* It promotes use of the insurance model to pay for health care
Indeed, that last point might be the most pernicious aspect of the health-employment linkage. Insurance makes the price of things go up. Think about how much car insurance would cost if it covered oil changes. Think about how much the price of food would go up if that was covered by insurance.
This is because insurance removes the incentive to shop around for the best deal since something else is paying for it. Insurance also brings with it, by its very nature, lots of paperwork and bureaucracy as measures to insure the insurance company isn’t being ripped off. Dental insurance is a particularly egregious example of the bad effects of insurance. By its nature dental care is mostly about maintenance and prevention. Why is insurance needed for an eminently predictable expense?
This is not to say that insurance doesn’t have its place. Everyone should buy insurance to guard against catastrophic developments such as cancer. But in general we should move towards a fee for service model in which you shop around for your doctor and pay him for services rendered. Yes, this would bring a new expense but it would also free up companies to pay their employees more.
Most importantly having millions of consumers out shopping around would help increase competition and drive down prices. It would also produce an increase in choice for insurance options more tailor made rather than the current approach in which insurance companies offer a handful of options for an entire group of employees.
Doctors could spend more time with patients and less time filling out forms.
2. Allow insurance companies to sell their products in any state. Currently there isn’t a national marketplace in health insurance, with states regulating health care differently and often times imposing regulations such as mandates about procedures insurance must cover. By creating a national marketplace you would expand choice and drive down costs through greater competition.
The Constitution explicitly gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce and this would be a great way to wield this authority.
3. Review licensing requirements. It is my understanding that nurses, for example, have to get licensed in each state they wish to practice in and that this is not always an easy undertaking. Such requirements serve as a barrier to market entry in econo-speak, reducing the supply of nurses and increasing costs.
On a similar note I have read that regulations mean that a number of routine procedures must be performed by a doctor when a nurse could take care of this. Doctor’s time is expensive and this unnecessarily pushes up costs. You don’t need a $300/hour tax attorney to fill out your 1040EZ.
4. Review medical malpractice laws. While I am not sure of the magnitude it seems that medical malpractice suits impose considerable costs on doctors and drive up the price of health care. We need a better system here that balances the ability of patients to sue their doctors for damages with costs that deter medical professionals from practicing their craft. I don’t have the solutions here but it warrants a closer examination.
Now, would these measures provide all the answers? I doubt it. You have the problem of taking care of the poor and those with pre-existing conditions. But while it doesn’t solve everything I feel pretty confident that such actions would be a big step in the right direction.
Once again we have an inflammatory post that is pure propaganda.
It is obvious that Oliver and many of the commentors here welcome the slide towards socialism that Obama has made. To be fair Bush opened the door but Obama is driving a freight train through it.
*Facepalm*
heh, apparently my first reply to “Colin” was too strongly worded to get past the filter.
heh, apparently my first reply to “Colin” was too strongly worded to get past the filter.
No worries, I’m sure it was full of rampant accusations of me wanting to sell out America, lacking patriotism, being driven by greed and — my fav — a “sociopathic indifference to Americans health.”
heh, apparently my first reply to “Colin” was too strongly worded to get past the filter.
Or too chock full of generic links to havenworks?
Colin,
That was a well thought out comment on healthcare. It is hard to imagine why someone would reply in such a manner that a filter would block thier message.
On another note, “sociopathic indifference to Americans health” is a classic.
I’m sure it was full of rampant accusations of me wanting to sell out America, lacking patriotism, being driven by greed and — my fav — a “sociopathic indifference to Americans health.”
Oh, so you’ve heard it before, eh?
Well, how does one define socialism?
Take the opposite of yours?
It’s like art, you know it when you see it. A Federal Register at over 80,000 pages of rules, however, suggests we have long ago crossed the threshold.
How many industries and products does that cover? Depending on the answer, it could only be 10 pages per sector, which is nothing.
I was reading this post while listening to talk radio the other day and the socialist Emergency Broadcasting System cut in to warn of impending storms. At most a few minutes later one of the wildest winds that ever stormed through here started blowing.
Apparently the socialist National Weather Service was concerned that the winds were fierce enough that people in my community (I know, I know, it almost sounds like Communisimum!) should stay indoors and away from windows.
Some in my community ended up calling the Socialist Fire Department to respond to fires started by lightning strikes.
Cowards, the only proper non-socialist thing to do would have been to let the whole neighborhood go up in flames like true capitalists would have.
That’s the problem living in a Communityism.
Damn socialism trying to protect me and mine from natural disasters!
Next the socialists will be trying to institute some kind of sciency government warning systems for active volcanoes and earthquakes and tornadoes!
Damn socialists and their meddling!
Fools, all of them, for trying to work in their social cooperative ways to “research” things and find “solutions” that protect the “community”!
It’s interfering with the natural order of things I tell you!
It makes me almost want to call a cop to have them arrested!
But then I realized that as a good capitalist I can’t call the Socialist Police Force Protecting My Communityism .
It made me so mad I just wanted to get in my car and drive to the park, but then I realized that in my communityism, the Socialist Road System and Socialist Park System meant that all I could do to live up to my capitalist code was to take a walk in my very safe neighborhood which is (against my capitalist will, of course) protected by the Socialist Police Force and the Socialist Fire Department.
It’s amazing that more neighborhoods don’t get flooded after big storms, but the darn meddling Socialist Sewer System drains away all the water quite effectively.
Apparently the darn meddling Socialist City Planners won’t allow the capitalists to build homes in flood plains with inadequate drainage.
Walking around the neighborhood is nice, but sometimes it’s frustrating if I want to cross the really super busy street just around the corner. Oh, sure, the cowards use the Socialist Cross Walk but I’m a risk taking capitalist and dodging fast moving traffic despite safer socialist alternatives isn’t going to stop me!
Next time I go for a walk I think I’ll go up to the local Public Library…
Oh, wait… Darn it @$%^!
At least I can stay home and use the Internet, it’s not like the socialist government had a hand in designing, funding, and building that…
I love it how when those on the right complain about the size of government that the left responds with talk of infrastructure and police departments, a strawman that is supposed to represent the sum total of government that the right — or at least some of us — is trying to limit. Oh, if only that were the case.
I love it how when those on the right complain about the size of government that the left responds with talk of infrastructure and police departments, a strawman that is supposed to represent the sum total of government that the right — or at least some of us — is trying to limit.
So you’re saying those AREN’T part of the government? What?