Well, at least conservatives remain consistent with their racism.
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Manuel Miranda, Anti-Sotomayor Pointman Explains How Blacks Can’t Think For Themselves
June 2nd, 2009
60 Comments
Your modern Republican party, the party of Nixon, Lee Atwater, Karl Rove, and their enduring and beloved Southern Strategy: Charming as ever.
Pssst. Manny. You’re not helping.
Keep it up.
This is undeniably a dipshit thing to say, but I think you might have mischaracterized it somewhat, OW. As I read him he seems to be saying that African Americans think one way, and everyone else (including Hispanics) think this other way.
On second thought, he does imply that African Americans think as a bloc. So you’re probably accurate, but leave out where he says Hispanics think like everyone else, unlike African-Americans, who evidently think in Martian according to Mr. Miranda.
This is who they are.
If I mention the Southern Strategy, will it make the Right-Wing ‘Tards’ heads explode?
… I don’t care.
Are the right-wingers not even going to show up and defend this?
Are the right-wingers not even going to show up and defend this?
They may show up to try to change the subject.
They are probably trying to cook up a false equivalence as you speak.
…otherwise known as the “Ooh! Look! A bird!” school of rhetoric.
On the bright side, my ornithological skills have vastly increased since reading this site. I may have a new hobby.
Sonia Sotomayor is being attacked by one of the right wing’s nuttier nuts.
At various time this right winger, Manuel Miranda, has hacked Democratic computers and was subsequently rewarded for it by Republican President Bush with a crony position in Iraq, he’s claimed that filibusters were “unprecedented, [and] unconstitutional” and now is demanding that Republicans use that “unprecedented, unconstitutional” power, and when he couldn’t get his way threatened a Democratic leader.
RIGHT WINGER RESUME:
UNLAWFUL. Check.
UNETHICAL. Check.
HYPOCRITE. Check.
VIOLENT. Check.
Steve Benen: “Remember Manuel Miranda?” … “In 2004, Manuel Miranda was at the center of a fairly significant scandal, in which Republican staffers on the Hill accessed Democratic computer servers and stole over 4,000 memos and documents related to judicial nominees. Miranda was directly responsible for the thefts, and left with no options, GOP senators forced Miranda to resign in disgrace. Soon after, Miranda was the subject of a criminal investigation, though no charges were filed.”
Greg Sargent: “Leader Of Conservative Opposition To Sotomayor Was Nailed For Hacking And Spying On Senate Dems.”
Ryan Powers: “Disgraced former Senate Republican aide calls on McConnell to filibuster Sotomayor.” … “In 2004, Miranda struck a slightly different tone, calling filibustering judicial nominees “unprecedented, unconstitutional.””
Jo Gandelman: “Conservatives Clamor For GOP Senators To Filibuster Sotomayor Nomination.” … “Once upon a time, quite a few Republicans insisted the filibuster was a horrible, undemocratic, obstructioist, legislatively outmoded device (when the Democrats tried to use it). And not just a few. GO HERE and watch nine video clips showing Congressional GOPers decrying the filibuster (when the political numbers were a wee bit different, and “their” Supreme Court nominee was under consideration).” … “FACT: The filibuster is a legit rule in the Senate. If the GOP decides to use it to stop Sotomayor, they’ll look like hypocrites.”
Charlie Savage: “Conservatives Ask Republican Senators to Filibuster on Sotomayor.”
Kyle: “When Is a Filibuster Not a Filibuster?”
Mary Ann Akers And Paul Kane: “After a Number of Miranda Wrongs, Former Senate Aide Is Headed for Iraq.”
Mary Ann Akers: “Challenging Dick to (Another) Duel.” … “Around this time last year, Miranda called Durbin “a little man” and asked the Senator to meet him off Capitol Hill “or meet me in an alley.” Apparently still eager for a little action, Miranda wrote in an e-mail to HOH on Tuesday: “I would still like to [challenge] the little midget to a fist fight.””
And now you can add statements of Manuel Miranda’s that by right wing standards are judged to be racist. But than that would be judging right wingers by their own standards.
Right Winger’s First Rule: Rules Are For Other People.
Check.
LOL,
Purely by coincidence Oliver accidently puts up a false headline on his post.
Oliver: …How Blacks Can’t Think For Themselves
Here is the money quote from our hispanic partisan:
“By the way, Hispanic polls, Hispanic surveys, indicate that Hispanics think just like everyone else. We’re not like African Americans. We think just like everybody else.”
Parsing his comment he is saying that polls and surveys indicate that hispanics share common values with the rest of the country and implies polls and surveys would indicate that blacks have values and thinking outside the mainstream.
Once again a pattern emerges of Oliver’s postings being in conflict with the truth.
I think the idiot is saying that only blacks think for themselves, while Hispanics and whites all think alike. He is generalizing from himself.
Nice spin G
Cons believe in the bell curve and think blacks are genetically inferior
I think it was a stupid remark to make for a lot of reasons.
But my question is, “When did this relatively unknown man become the “anti-Sotomayor point man”?
Linda Chavez also opposes her appointment, and she is more well – known and influential than this guy.
Incorrect though he may be, I believe he is saying that Afro-Americans express their opinions as a monolith, while Hispanics are not so inclined …
Relative harmless, but stupid politically .
Relative harmless, but stupid politically.
It’s harmless to call African-Americans a hive mind?
All righty.
Parthenon , yes it is — the way he expressed it … Not the words you attempted to put in his (and my) mouth …
Frank, if you get a moment, I’d really like to hear how you think this is a harmless comment. I emphasized the part that I find to be the opposite of harmless.
“By the way, Hispanic polls, Hispanic surveys, indicate that Hispanics think just like everyone else. We’re not like African Americans. We think just like everybody else.”
BTW, for all you people locking and loading your “Frank’s a racist” comments, let me say this :
a) I didn’t say it — he did.
b) I did not agree with it — I said it was relatively harmless, on the grand scale of things — this guy is insignificant, except in Oliver’s mind
c) Every time somebody says stupid shit about people of another race , culture or gender, there is no need to go to the barricades (see Michael Richards)
d) No, I am not a racist, even if you say I am.
“I believe he is saying that Afro-Americans express their opinions as a monolith, while Hispanics are not so inclined …”
Frank,
If I were inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt or asked to defend that statement, yes, that is the way I’d go.
“Relative harmless, but stupid politically.”
Well, I agree that the statement is stupid politically. As to its being relatively harmless, we disagree. If words and their meaning do count (and it seems that you feel that way given the weight you accord Sotomayor’s speech touching on her Latina identify) then the plain inferences that can be drawn from Miranda’s comments are far from harmless, no matter the amount of relativism you put in play (and I thought it was the libs who were moral relativists?).
If I were writing his remarks I could have or would have said:
“The Latin/Hispanic ‘community’ in the U.S. is far from monolithic. That if you look at polling data you see a wide variety of viewpoints – from conservative-minded Cuban-Americans in Florida to the more liberal political instincts of Mexican-Americans in California. That Domican-American residents of the Bronx and Manhattan have distinctly different leanings culturally and politically than Colombian-American residents in Queens. Consquently, any attempt by Democrats to portray her as representing the hearts and minds of the Latin/Hispanic community is specious.’
Self-evident? Yes. Harmless? Yes. Controversial? No.
But what he said in his own words boiled down to:
Hey, we ain’t like them colored folks – we’re more like you white folks.
The way we express ourselves is not a bad window into our thought processes and it seems to me that put that way this is far from a relatively harmless statement. Merely stupid sentence construction or indicative of a deeper pathology with regard to race-relations not to mention a bit of saelf-loathing (hey, I’m almost like a white person)? If one imputes as much meaning into his remarks as one has to Sotomayor’s – well I think the answer speaks for itself.
“we think just like everybody else”
take out latinos and African Americans, what demographic groups are left? Asian-Americans, “other”(arab-americans, native americans, etc.), and European Americans(i.e., “white” people). Sans African-Americans and Hispanic Americans, the vast majority of “everybody else” are “white” people.
Is it a terrible stretch to think that what he means by “we (latinos) think just like everybody else” is “we think just like white people”?
I think that could be a valid interpretation…
Merely stupid sentence construction or indicative of a deeper pathology with regard to race-relations not to mention a bit of self-loathing
That is a bit of a stretch, no?
But even if you are correct , he is “small potatoes”
He might as well as be muttering in his beer in a gin mill, for all the mileage that statement is gonna get .
and it seems that you feel that way given the weight you accord Sotomayor’s speech touching on her Latina identity
I do ?
.It’s harmless to call African-Americans a hive mind?
All righty. Parthenon
I don’t know the individual, Parthy, and I don’t care for the comment no matter the interpretation one has, but this is a site where one of the more popular memes is that any black conservative is more or less a toady minstrel. To think that line of thinking is a truism and what this fellow said is harmful, to me is somewhat incongruent logic. Seems to me that if one espouses that blacks should all be Democrats, and that ones who aren’t are sellouts, then one shouldn’t be too highly offended if someone says blacks can have monolithic characteristics.
When Republican Senator Jeff Sessions says that he thought the “KKK was okay until I found out they were pot smokers”, that’s a BIG reason why African Americans don’t see the Republican Party as offering them anything.
And now Republican Senator Jeff Sessions is the Republican overseeing Sotomayor’s Senate hearing?
Nuts.
“I do?”
Appologies if I’ve attributed others’ statements to you. There has been a great deal of parsing of her remarks about being a Latina and if you were not one of them . . . then my remark does not apply to you.
This is just like an endorsement for Obama from Allan Keyes.
“Relative harmless, but stupid politically.”
Perhaps. But I think that if you were an “Afro-American” as you so colorfully put it, you might have a different opinion.
I know this will get Jay Tea angry but today is National Fist Bump Day(or Terrorist Fist Bump Day if you watch Faux Noise).
why is it racist for a conservative to point out when something a liberal says is racist?
That puzzles me.
why is it racist for a conservative to point out when something a liberal says is racist? That puzzles me.
Oh poor conservatives. Baffled and befuddled by a world that they insist on misunderstanding.
CSS: If I mention the Southern Strategy, will it make the Right-Wing ‘Tards’ heads explode?
I don’t think if falls into the category of “strategy” anymore. When originally conceived and implemented it was a deliberate let’s-do-this-thing-to-achieve-that-goal. Now there’s no particular thought behind it nor specific goal being aimed for. It’s gone from “Let’s claim the blacks are inferior so the whites will join with us” strategy to a “blacks are inferior QED” belief.
Parthenon: It’s harmless to call African-Americans a hive mind?
Parthenon: I emphasized the part that I find to be the opposite of harmless.
“By the way, Hispanic polls, Hispanic surveys, indicate that Hispanics think just like everyone else. We’re not like African Americans. We think just like everybody else.”
Actually, if that says any group has a hive mind it would seem to me like it was the Hispanics and everyone else. Hispanics and everyone else think one way, blacks think different.
I agree with Frank DiSalle that it was a very stupid thing to say politically, as evidenced by the reaction it’s getting if nothing else. But based on this one snippet that everyone seems to be focusing on I don’t see that it says black can’t think for themselves (as OW’s headline would have it) but rather that they think differently than the mainstream. An arguable claim, of course, but if any group is being pointed to as unable to think for themselves in that snippet it’s the Hispanics.
Stay classy, repubs.
Ionya, no need to apologize, even if you had scooped me up with other folks.
What the Judge says about herself is, per se more significant than the observation a single Hispanic makes about his ethnic group and another.
If I say that I think I am singularly endowed to pass judgment on you , because of my ethnic background, that says a lot about me .
If I say, “Italians are not like Hispanics — they think like everybody else” that may also say something significant about me, as you pointed out, but they are two entirely different statements.
why is it racist for a conservative to point out when something a liberal says is racist?
That puzzles me.
Because if a conservative said the same thing, you’d be nodding your head and agreeing, toolbox.
That puzzles me.
That’s because you are a right-wing moran [sic].
Aside from that, the fact is what she said isn’t racist on it’s face. A hispanic woman who grew up in the Bronx is going to have a different life-experience than, say, this douchebag.
Why is that hard for you to understand?
If I say that I think I am singularly endowed to pass judgment on you, because of my ethnic background, that says a lot about me.
But that’s not what she said.
First of all, it’s her JOB to pass judgment on you. She’s a Judge. Right there in the job title.
Secondly, she is saying that her ethnicity would give her a different perspective than a white male judge, especially in cases involving sex discrimination as was pointed out in the rest of her quote that no one seems to bother reading.
That’s because you are a right-wing moran [sic]
Excellent contribution to the discussion, Parkbench ed.
Anything on Rush Limbaugh and/or the southern strategy, though?
You know, to ‘make our heads explode’.
But my question is, “When did this relatively unknown man become the “anti-Sotomayor point man”?
Linda Chavez also opposes her appointment, and she is more well – known and influential than this guy.
Anybody wanna take a shot at it ?
Related. Heh.
Anybody wanna take a shot at it ?
Click the links, man.
I pissed Duros off. MY day is complete.
No answer to my question from him, only insults. As usual.
Duros World: White conservative says something racist….it’s racist. Anyone that isn’t a white conservative guy says something racist…..it is racist say that what they said is racist. The problem is that libs are obsessed with race. So much so that it clouds their ability to judge fairly. See: Sotomayor.
That seems to be the case. Tell me where I’m wrong?
I pissed Duros off. MY day is complete.
Sadly, no.
That seems to be the case. Tell me where I’m wrong?
Sometime after you got up today.
What she said is about as racist as what Sam Alito said during his confirmation hearing.
Her upbringing and her background influences her decisions. Sam said the exact same thing.
Calm down, wingers. All you had to say is: “We disagree with that statement, or at least what it has been heard as, we’ll pressure for our party to demand clarification as this phrasing is making us look bad, and ask to be represented by someone else if this one turns out not skilled enough to represent us publicly.” There IS a graceful way out of faux-pas, why do you insist on being a howling horde of evil clowns?
Duros: your incredible wit and sharp tongue put George Carlin to shame.
How do you come up with zingers like “when you got up today.”
Your the comic god of OW.com.
Thank you for brightening our day with quips that would make Dennis Miller look like a dunce. Really, I’m serious.
:-0
“But based on this one snippet that everyone seems to be focusing on I don’t see that it says black can’t think for themselves (as OW’s headline would have it) but rather that they think differently than the mainstream.”
That is because it doesn’t say what OW’s headline makes it out to say. OW puts up inflammatory lies to bolster the points he tries to make, leading to a credibility gap.
There IS a graceful way out of faux-pas, why do you insist on being a howling horde of evil clowns? –MatanteDodo
Like the graceful way Obama explained Sotomayor’s Latina woman comment, I suppose, saying she would’ve restated it had she had the chance. Except now we know she made essentially the exact same comment back in 1998.
So when Obama is bullshitting us, at least it’s graceful bullshitting.
And when you’re bullshitting us, denny, it’s just bullshit.
Actually, if that says any group has a hive mind it would seem to me like it was the Hispanics and everyone else. Hispanics and everyone else think one way, blacks think different.
I’d say there’s an argument for either of our interpretations. What’s inarguable in his comment, though, is this.
(African-Americans)<******************(Everyone else)
this is a site where one of the more popular memes is that any black conservative is more or less a toady minstrel.
I think toady minstrel is pushing it, but I’m as opposed to that as you are.
I think toady minstrel is pushing it, but I’m as opposed to that as you are.
Fair enough, Parthy, but I honestly wasn’t trying to push it.
<a href=”http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/02/19/michael-steeles-minstrel-show/”Michael steele’s Minstrel Show
“Sure, its possible. But the ones that pop up are almost always <a href=”http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/03/24/tea-parties-get-their-own-theme-song/”minstrel acts – Ken Blackwell, Michael Steele, JC Watts, etc.”
<a href=”http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/05/02/the-role-of-the-black-conservative-in-america/”The Role of the Black Conservative in America
“http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/02/19/michael-steeles-minstrel-show/
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/03/24/tea-parties-get-their-own-theme-song/
”http://www.oliverwillis.com/2006/05/02/the-role-of-the-black-conservative-in-america/
Parthenon: I’d say there’s an argument for either of our interpretations. What’s inarguable in his comment, though, is this.
(African-Americans)<******************(Everyone else)
At the risk of arguing the inarguable (particularly when you’ve been gracious to acknowledge it’s a matter of interpretations), if I read your equation right that’s equating different with inferior and I’d see that view as being in the eye of the beholder.
Another modern Republican bigot eruption:
Where we’re at:
It’s almost like there’s a pattern. No worries though. I’m sure Boss Limbaugh will rein in this considerable amount of shitty racism. Any day now.
if I read your equation right that’s equating different with inferior and I’d see that view as being in the eye of the beholder.
You read it right, but I can’t agree with your statement. If the statement implies the exclusion of a single group from the rest of society, I think that carries the implication also of inferiority.
You read it right, but I can’t agree with your statement. If the statement implies the exclusion of a single group from the rest of society, I think that carries the implication also of inferiority.
Hmmm. “Exclusion” is different than “different”. It’s a stronger term and I’d agree that if it’s really one group being “excluded” from the rest it may be reasonable to infer (i.e., an assumption as to what was meant is being made) that the reason for the exclusion is because something is bad about the excluded group. But I don’t see just noting that one group is different similarly implies they are inferior. It could equally be seen to imply they are superior.
“By the way, dropout polls, dropout surveys, indicate that dropouts think just like everyone else. We’re not like successful college graduates. We think just like everybody else.”
People do not understand Hispanic Americans. What Miranda is saying is that Hispanics do not think collectively as a group like African Americans. The media has had it wrong on Hispanics since day 1. Many of us do not speak Spanish nor do we have funny accents, some of us have up to 5 generations of American citizenship in our families, many are not the dark skinned indigenous people they show crossing the border (55% of all Hispanics identify as white-Caucasian), universities in states such Ca, Ar, Tex, have many schools where the predominant race is Hispanic, and 90 percent could care care less about immigration because all of us vote which means we have to be citizens. Immigration polls in from 5-7 on ranking issues just like whites. 60 % want English to be the official language. Immigrants constitute a sub division of the hispanics which which leans heavily democratic and provides an 10-12 point swing. A hypothetical: If hispanics go 48 dem. 40 rep. add in foreign born hispanics and it looks more like 32 65 in that range. And by the way tehe whole 9 kids thing couldnt be less true