In reaction to North Korea apparently making a nuclear test, conservatives are reacting like they always do: like scared babies. The fact that Kim Jong Il is as provocative as he always is seems, for them, to prove some point. Good luck deciphering what that actually is. Is the point that we should engage in diplomacy? Well, they’re citing known nut (he’d like to destroy the UN) John Bolton as a source of wisdom, but what he did during his disastrous tenure at the UN was to… not talk directly to North Korea and antagonize them more.
Now, the right has been mainlining crazy more than usual these last 100+ days so I guess their argument is that we should react to this with a use of force? I mean, I guess we could follow the Bush doctrine but I don’t think South Korea should be invaded…
We’ve spent the last eight years following the tantrum like whims of a bunch of seriously scared people. All we have to show for it is a lot of dead people and a less safe and stable planet.
While Reagan was a conservative, its lucky for us that the modern brand of wingnut wasn’t in control of our foreign policy in the 80s because DC and Moscow would still be off the charts on the Geiger meter.
What do we do now? We engage in diplomacy, we try to cool down the situation and we try to keep the world safe.
What we don’t do is wet the damn bed and get a lot of people killed in order to live out some conservative’s Dungeons and Dragons scenario.
I resent the term “Dungeons and Dragons Scenario”.
otherwise, these people are crazy.
You know Oliver, you’re a smart man.
A tyrannical nutcase has nuclear weapons, missiles to launch ‘em, a history of supplying weapons to terrorists and other rogue states, a history of trying to infiltrate his neighbor to the south, and demonstrated contempt for international opinion and action. I’m SURE “diplomacy” will fix everything.
Unless, of course, you mean “diplomacy” as in the sense of “the art of saying ‘nice doggie’ while reaching for a stick…”
J.
I’m SURE “diplomacy” will fix everything.
I’m not sure. Normally, I’d say diplomacy will work, but I’m not confident it can fix Bush’s failed legacy.
A Dungeons and Dragons scenario for this incident would be to take some rangers and thieves, infiltrate North Korea, steal Kim’s magic toupee, defeat the purple worm, collect experience points, and then sabotage the nuclear arsenal. Clearly that’s too hard for a 3rd level barbarian like Bolton.
Jay Tea:
What would you rather do? Nuke ‘em? And then what? Watch South Korea get vaporized? Cause that is how they’d retaliate. Go back to your Team America: World Police fantasies.
Bwaha!
One of the people Insty links to is William Jacobsen, tut-tuting that the Obama administration hasn’t been attentive enough to the threat posed by North Korea.
Last week, the most important thing on Mr. J’s mind was the kind of mustard on Mr. Obama’s sandwich.
How could North Korea conduct nuclear tests? Haven’t they seen Obama’s approval ratings?
Oliver,
I agree with most of what you are saying. However, we do have to worry about the world getting the perception that our “bluff” has been called. I worry about that.
My apologies. I’d forgotten that the magic word was spoken — “diplomacy.” That makes everything better.
I don’t know what the answer to the North Korean problem is. I do know that simply saying the D-Word and expecting Obama to work miracles is fantasy.
Maybe a decapitation strike would work. The country has been teetering on the edge of total collapse for years. Kim Jong-Il is unhealthy already, and has no clear successor.
Or it might not.
The biggest problem is that China likes keeping North Korea just as it is — teetering on the edge of collapse, dependent on China for support and protection, drawing attention to itself and away from China. China has no reason to “reform” North Korea, and plenty of reason to maintain the status quo. It serves their purposes.
So China is the key to the situation. And right now, China is showing that it has no real interest in being overly friendly with us — witness their recent confrontations with our unarmed ships in international waters off their coasts.
J.
A tyrannical nutcase has nuclear weapons, missiles to launch ‘em, a history of supplying weapons to terrorists and other rogue states, a history of trying to infiltrate his neighbor to the south, and demonstrated contempt for international opinion and action.
Just a note, having nuclear weapons and missles does not equal having nuclear missles. There’s an big difference between being able to build a functional low-grade atomic bomb that weighs 10,000 lbs or more and building something that can fit onto the missles North Korea has (payload ~1000 lbs).. Of course, this is exactly why Clinton was willing to allow North Korea to use old-style uranium purification techniques, with which NK could build, at best, a very small number of large-sized, small-yield weapons. Bush threw those agreements out the window, which allowed North Korea to use their reactors to produce significant quantities of weapons-grade plutonium. Which is why they now have several higher-yield weapons.
I’m SURE “diplomacy” will fix everything.
It did work, at least in preventing NK from being a major threat. Unshitting the bed is a larger challenge…
Holy moley, Mr. Tea.
I don’t know what the answer to the North Korean problem is. I do know that simply saying the D-Word and expecting Obama to work miracles is fantasy.
[snippage]
So China is the key to the situation. And right now, China is showing that it has no real interest in being overly friendly with us — witness their recent confrontations with our unarmed ships in international waters off their coasts.
Summing up:
1) You don’t know what the answer is, but
2) You think diplomacy is a joke, and
3) You think China is behind the whole thing.
It’s either diplomacy or war with China, Mr. Tea. Don’t you think it’s worthwhile to give diplomacy a shot?
Diplomacy never works.
Aggression is always the answer.
New stupid arguments please. “Decapitation” strike? Jesus H. Roll an 8 to pass the Wizard of Mordor.
And right now, China is showing that it has no real interest in being overly friendly with us — witness their recent confrontations with our unarmed ships in international waters off their coasts.
You’re being quite selective in your account of recent events, Mr. Tea. Will you stop trying to mislead readers here, or shall I embarrass you once again?
[...] Posted by Jehuda in Uncategorized. Tags: News, Politics trackback Nukes in Norko? Big deal! Oliver Willis urges the Right to chill out on North Korean nukes. He’s the model of Obama-style cool, ain’t he? (or is it Nero-like aloofness?) But [...]
“Embarass” away, Quaker. The Chinese treatment of the USNS Impeccable and the USNS Victorious in the last few months are just the first example I had.
J.
North Korea reached 1940s technology in 2009
Leave it to jr to come up with something utterly simplistic, utterly irrelevant, and utterly stupid.
Yes, what North Korea did was equal to what the US did in 1945. Good observation, moron. (pat on head.) Now go back to eating paste.
Just because the US did it, at tremendous effort and expense, over 60 years ago, doesn’t diminish how tremendously difficult building a nuclear bomb is. All the US did was demonstrate proof of concept — they know it’s possible.
Look how long it took India and Pakistan to develop nuclear weapons — and they are a hell of a lot more advanced than North Korea.
It hasn’t just been the NPT that’s kept nuclear weaopns out of more hands — it takes a LOT of money and a LOT of equipment and a LOT of expertise.
North Korea did it while essentially starving its citizens and bankrupting its country. And now we have to deal with that.
J.
According to Quaker, North Korea is Bush’s failed legacy.
As you wish, Mr. Tea.
— witness their recent confrontations with our unarmed ships in international waters off their coasts.
Let’s add a little context, shall we? Our ships were unarmed. What kind of ships are they? They are surveillance ships. What are they doing 100 miles off the coast of China? We don’t know. What about the Chinese ships–were they armed? They were not. Did the Chinese ships make any threatening moves? They steered within 25 yards of the American ships.
Anything else? Yes, the Chinese sailors stipped to their underwear in some sort of bizarre taunt of our ship’s crew.
Now, Mr. Tea. Please continue with your “no real interest in being overly friendly with us” blather.
According to Quaker, North Korea is Bush’s failed legacy.
Farris, need I point out that Mr. Bush was in charge of North Korea policy for eight whole years after Ms. Allbright’s departure? How many nuclear tests had North Korea staged up till then?
North Korea acts up less than 60 days into a new administration: It’s the New President’s Fault!
North Korea acts up on Day 125 of a new administration: It’s the old President’s Fault!
I’m still tickled pink by Jay Tea’s “decapitation scenario”.
Pray, tell, what would that look like? Just to be clear, are you actually suggesting we try and assassinate Kim-Jong Il? Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with the “exploding cigar” scenario?
North Korea acts up less than 60 days into a new administration: It’s the New President’s Fault!
North Korea acts up on Day 125 of a new administration: It’s the old President’s Fault!
The implied comparison is wrong in so many ways I almost can’t decide where to begin.
Almost.
Is it too much to expect that you have even scanned the articles you link, Farris? The entry you gave us from Jake Tapper is about Mr. Bush’s deliberate efforts to antagonize the North Koreans! So yes, I think it’s fair to hold him responsible for the overt actions of his own administration.
On the other hand, we have a recent nuclear test by North Korea, a continuation of provocative acts that began….when was it Farris? Three years ago?
Perhaps you could disabuse me of my misguided notion that this is part of Mr. Bush’s failed legacy. What steps did the Bush administration take? I mean other than calling a megalomanic dicatator names?
No, we don’t say “use force.” But we were right when we said that every crazy dictator across the globe will do what they want now. Iran, N Korea, Venezuela….
They do not respect Obama. He’s weak. He has the “underpants gnome theory to foreign policy.”
Step 1 – talk with Iran, N Korea, Syria…etc..
Step 2 – (????)
Step 3 – Peace!
I know you folks here are as close to cheerleaders as I’ve seen on a blog, but Obama isn’t going to prevent anyone from doing anything.
Not to worry. No country would ever be crazy or barbaric enough to actually use nuclear weapons.
They do not respect Obama. He’s weak. He has the “underpants gnome theory to foreign policy.”
And conservatives have a completely insane theory of foreign policy: increase tensions untilo we have peace!
While Reagan was a conservative, its lucky for us that the modern brand of wingnut wasn’t in control of our foreign policy in the 80s because DC and Moscow would still be off the charts on the Geiger meter.
I needed that. You just made Jeanne Kirkpatrick seem reasonable.
The entry you gave us from Jake Tapper is about Mr. Bush’s deliberate efforts to antagonize the North Koreans!
Oh please. I keep forgetting that everything was peachy keen in the world until January 21, 2001. The North Koreans didn’t ignore the lame plan put together by Clinton and Jimmy Carter! They started doing it as soon as Bush took office!
And now, we have the Obama administration sitting around with their thumbs up their arses, NK says “Watch this bitches” and even THAT is Bush’s fault.
Good grief. If we keep this up, Obama and his bots will be blaming Bush for anything they fuck three years from now.
You didn’t read the article either, did you Jay?
@ Jay,
“Good grief. If we keep this up, Obama and his bots will be blaming Bush for anything they fuck three years from now.”
Kind of like the Bush administration blaming Bill Clinton for so many things, for so long into his administration?
Jay is running on reflexes only. It was Farris who made the initial mistake. The article by Mr. Tapper criticizes the Bush administration, but not for an outcome. The criticism is aimed at specific actions by Bush administration officials.
Count the days all you like, but comparing criticism of actions with criticism of outcomes is still apples and road apples.
Yo mama troll is funny troll!
Gahaha lets start wars left and right, it’ll make the world more peaceful and I’ll tell you why:
Eventually enough people will be pissed and join forces to invade the USA. The rest of the world will be at peace while belligerents fight for pieces of American territory. Us Canuckistani will have to look out for radioactive clouds though.
Why don’t such scenarios get mentionned more often? Ah, yes, because leftists can tell when a theory is ridiculous!