Me: “Is that a no then?”

Still a no.

J.G.Thayer is a coward, and this thread proves it.

Is that a no then?

You said ‘spends less on health care per capita and % GDP than the United States,’ and my eyes saw ‘more.’ And at the time, it made a bit of twisted sense.”

How? How does that make sense? If I wrote that, I was essentially making your case for you. Quite frankly, I don’t believe you could be that stupid.

“I apologize for that (which I don’t expect you to accept).”

I’ll accept it when you actually address my point.

And unless you forgot it, socialized health care will save money. It saves money because it is universal, which means you don’t have corporate bureaucrats trying to figure out ways to deny paying for necessary medical treatment. This saves money.

(Overhead in the United States is 32% while in Canada its 17%.)

The Cheney Party.

The Bush Party.

The Karl Rove Party.

The Jack Abramoff Party.

The Yoo Party.

The Limbaugh Party?

The Undemocratic Party?

The Anti-Intellectual Party?

The Anti-Science Party?

The Anti-Reality Party?

The Warmonger Party?

The War Profiteering Party?

The Sadist Party?

The Neo-Fascist Party?

The Proto-Fascist Party?

The Outrage Party?

The Perpetual Outrage Party?

The Feinting Couch Party?

The Lunatic Extremist Party?

The Jump the Shark Party?

The Goper Party? (GOP=Republican)

Goober Oily Poopyhead Party?

Greedy Old Panderers?

———–
“El Cid’s” contribution is perfect:

The Neo-Confederate Party.

Republican Party:

Misinformed Party?

Mistaken Party?

Miseducated Party?

Misconceiving Party?

Misadministration Party?

Misemployed Party?

Misgovernment Party?

Misinformation Party?

Mismanaged Party?

Mismanagement Party?

Misorder Party?

Mistruth Party?

Misbehaving Party?

It’s getting that way. Today, there are many voters that were born during or after the fall of the Soviet Union (myself included). And before you say that those people are “stupid” because they don’t believe socialism is pure evil, remember that people back then also believed that tobacco was good for you. So yeah…

You said “spends less on health care per capita and % GDP than the United States,” and my eyes saw “more.” And at the time, it made a bit of twisted sense. I also crossed the debate stream with another discussion I’ve been having about the percentage of GDP the US spends on defense vs. other nations’ percentages.

I apologize for that (which I don’t expect you to accept).

J.

So because the United States spends so much on Defense, it means they have to spend MORE ON HEALTH CARE BUT STILL GET WEAKER RESULTS!

Are you this fucking stupid?

This is where Hanlon’s Razor breaks down.

Then they come back and tell their friends.

Jay, you’ve never met a point that you couldn’t miss. The reason why the comment is a good one isn’t because people have forgotten how bad bad bad the USSR is, it’s because they’re realizing how good good good people have it in social democracies. The GOP loves to try and scare people about America turning into France, but younger and more educated Americans don’t quiver in fear (about the only thing Republicans are capable of these days), rather, they see a country that provides reasonable things like affordable health-care, where people don’t go bankrupt due to a medical condition, and where people simply live longer.

But please, continue spouting your gibberish to the 20% of Americans too deluded to come outside of their bunkers/moms’ basements.

“On the other hand, Canada probably spends a hell of a lot more money every year than the US does on fighting the terrible scourge of rabid moose attacks…”

And yet, 9/11 happened in an American city under a Republican president. Canada wasn’t hit. So what is it that you’re trying to argue?

Also, there’s a massive difference between a democratic social democracy like Sweden and most of the Nordic countries and a totalitarian dictatorship that happened to be state-controlled like the USSR.

Finally, yes. People in Sweden pay more in taxes. However, once you throw in state/property/local taxes into the basket with US federal taxes, the difference ain’t that great. And as a result, they do pay ten percent more in total taxes, but they get _much_ more in services. Services that work well. As was noted, national health care – cheaper per capita. National Higher Education – Most likely cheaper per capita.

So yes. I would bet if you went to somebody who’s making $50,000 and told them, “you will have to pay ten percent more in total taxes. However, you won’t be paying a premium every month to an HMO. When your kids turn 18, you won’t have to pay thousands in tuition. If you have another child, we’ll help you with a decent chunk of your child care. Good deal?”

Mr. Tea, that makes no sense at all. How much of the U.S. defense budget is spent on defending against direct attacks on the mainland?

And as usual, Strowbridge presents a tiny fraction of the truth. How much of Canada’s GDP goes towards defense? Does Canada have an entitlement system that sucks up anywhere near as much of their GDP as ours?

Here’s an ugly little secret: approximately 80% of Canada’s defense budget is listed under the US Defense Department, under “other.”

Oh, and Strowbridge, that’s called “metaphor.” It’s a shorthand way of pointing out that Canada’s defense spending is incredibly, artificially low, thanks to the US. And that means that because we are their only land neighbor, and we are the world’s preeminent superpower (I’d even say hyperpower), and we don’t like the idea of having to deal with a hostile neighbor to the north, Canada’s danger of being attacked is virtually nonexistent. So their defense needs are incredibly slight.

On the other hand, Canada probably spends a hell of a lot more money every year than the US does on fighting the terrible scourge of rabid moose attacks…

J.

And in the case of socialized health care, everyone pays less. At least on average.

Or do you think it’s a fluke that the Canadian government spends less on health care per capita and % GDP than the United States does, despite the fact that the United States also has private health care?

Jesse writes “I wonder if Republicans realize a very simple fact. For people under thirty-five, when you say socialism, they think Sweden. Not the USSR.”

This is the smartest comment I’ve read in a while. And Jay Tea responds by quoting Thatcher, a person who most under-35′s either revile or don’t know.

And in the end, Margaret Thatcher’s truism will be borne out: “the problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people’s money.”

J.