A writer for Grist Magazine notices a geographic proximity between the outbreak and a major pork manufacturer.
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Oprah Quitting TV Show In 2011
Smithfield Farms & Swine Flu?
April 27th, 2009
148 Comments
What is Ms. Malkin’s reaction to the suffering and death?
She can’t be human.
“my prayers have been answered”-Michelle
For years, people have made arguments in favor of securing (NOT closing, but securing) our borders. The danger of disease was but one of many of those arguments. The resurgence of many diseases that we thought we had pretty much eradicated over the years has been traced to illegal aliens who bypass health screenings.
Examples? Polio, tuberculosis, leprosy, Chagas disease, Dengue fever, now swine flu.
This isn’t glee. I’m not thrilled to be on the right side of this argument. When one predicts bad consequences, one is rarely happy when they play out.
As far as the Smithfield connection… interesting, but I’d be wary of the “correlation/causation” fallacy. There are such things as coincidence… but it definitely bears further study.
In particular, the fact that the name “swine flu” comes from its origin, not necessarily its most recent source — and the swine in question apparently have not been struck by the disease.
J.
“The resurgence of many diseases that we thought we had pretty much eradicated over the years has been traced to illegal aliens who bypass health screenings.
Examples? Polio, tuberculosis, leprosy, Chagas disease, Dengue fever, now swine flu.
This isn’t glee. I’m not thrilled to be on the right side of this argument. ”
Good. Because you’re not. The US cases of swine flu have been traced to US citizen students who spent spring break in Mexico, NOT to ‘illegal aliens who bypass health screenings’.
I think the Smithfield connection is jumping the gun, but the right is also jumping the gun blaming our ‘unsecured borders’ for a disease that traveling citizens brought back – and yes, they ARE being gleeful about it.
My god you’re a dumbass Jay. According to current reports, the Americans with swine flu got it after vacationing in Mexico. No scary brown people snuck across the border for this to happen.
It’s the 21st century. It’s a global economy with a global transportation network. Please keep your Confederate-era racial fantasies to yourself and Dennis and your Klan meetings, k?
/JoyceH beat me to it.
Huh. While the possibility of an illegal alien crossing the border with the flu is real, it might not happen for some time. Illegal immigrant tend to be from poor, rural areas. It could take some time for a chain of person to person chain of contact would reach from Mexico City to those areas.
Good to see our President taking the news so seriously: Now watch this drive…
Why, the President will get the director of HHS on it right away. Ooops! The Republicans are dawdling about her appointment. Something about abortions, apparently. Good the to see the Republicans are taking the news so seriously.
And of course, the Republicans cut $900 million from the stimulus package directed towards emergency flu preparedness.
But not to worry. Obama will race away from his golf game and fix that. On a Sunday, no less.
Actually, I suspect he’ll well and truly fix the problem in 2010…
Getting the vapors over a president enjoying his weekend, Farris?
Oh, yeah, I forgot, we’re talking Wingnut Logic. And shut up!
This particular outbreak’s relevance to the immigration issue is debatable, but those of you belittling potential relevance: do you actually support *illegal* immigration? Such statements give the impression that you do.
Is a reason other than the definition of the world illegal needed to support enforcement of immigration law, anyway?
The immigration debate has been corrupted by unnecessary polarization. It’s actually a nuanced issue, but the way it gets laid out is Secure Our Borders vs. Let Everyone In.
I believe we should have more lenient immigration laws that allow more people to come to America legally to work. At the same time, I believe we should harshly punish employers who hire illegal immigrants; it’s employers who benefit from illegal immigration as it allows them to pay people less than they otherwise would have to. Punish them and you push the whole system to favor legal immigrants.
Finally, we should secure our borders, not against illegal immigrants specifically, but against things coming in over the border that should not be. Like bombs. But allowing security to be conflated with illegal immigration is not smart. There’s nothing that makes an illegal immigrant a better carrier of dangerous cargo than a legal traveler. In fact, if we’re too focused on illegal immigration, all a terrorist bringing something in over the border needs is a visa and they get far less attention.
I haven’t heart a lot of people being against securing our borders, but allowing that argument to be co-opted by another political agenda – namely illegal immigration – taints the argument we should be having.
Not that this swine flu outbreak has much to do with either issue.
J.G.Thayer: “For years, people have made arguments in favor of securing (NOT closing, but securing) our borders.”
Because you hate brown people.
You sure seem to want to stretch to associate the Swine Flu with illegal immigration. If I did that, you would attack me for being obsessed.
I guess that makes you a hypocrite and a racist. But we already knew that.
Jay Tea: The danger of disease was but one of many of those arguments. The resurgence of many diseases that we thought we had pretty much eradicated over the years has been traced to illegal aliens who bypass health screenings.
Yeah, keeping more of them Mexican’s out would help. Certainly stopped the eight cases in NYC brought back by students who were on vacation south of the border.
Oh, wait.
Eric is exactly right. I both support a fence and an efficient, painless path to citizenship (i.e. one that doesn’t take years) that ensures nobody will be tempted to pay some guy with a van 500 bucks to get them through.
You isolationists tying this to immigration, are you in favor of not even TRAVELLING between countries anymore, because you might catch something foreign and icky?
J.G>Thayer: “The danger of disease was but one of many of those arguments. The resurgence of many diseases that we thought we had pretty much eradicated over the years has been traced to illegal aliens who bypass health screenings.”
Sean D. Martin: “Yeah, keeping more of them Mexican’s out would help. Certainly stopped the eight cases in NYC brought back by students who were on vacation south of the border.
Oh, wait.”
It’s like they think we won’t double-check what they say. It’s like they think their word is enough.
For years, people have made arguments in favor of securing (NOT closing, but securing) our borders. The danger of disease was but one of many of those arguments. The resurgence of many diseases that we thought we had pretty much eradicated over the years has been traced to illegal aliens who bypass health screenings.
If you were legitimately concerned about the danger of disease, you’d close airports, not borders. Of all the possible vectors of disease, an illegal alien crossing the border is the slowest moving, least widely spread possible. This is truly ignorant bullshit. Would you care to demonstrate a single case of disease resurgence due to “illegal aliens who bypass health screenings” (which would require demonstrating spread of disease, not a single case of illness among an illegal alien)? Do you “know” it’s true because Limbaugh said it or did you read about it on Stormfront?
This isn’t glee. I’m not thrilled to be on the right side of this argument. When one predicts bad consequences, one is rarely happy when they play out.
Your ego is several orders of magnitude larger than your knowledge.
As far as the Smithfield connection… interesting, but I’d be wary of the “correlation/causation” fallacy. There are such things as coincidence… but it definitely bears further study.
So the correlation/causation with Smithfield is a fallacy, while the correlation/causation you’re utilizing in your presumptions of “this disease is spread by unclean brown people” is just good old common sense. This reasoning is straight 1939 Nazi propaganda. Rarely has anyone here (ok, maybe Dennis) so clearly demonstrated themselves to be both a racist AND a complete moron.
The resurgence of many diseases that we thought we had pretty much eradicated over the years has been traced to illegal aliens who bypass health screenings.
Examples? Polio, tuberculosis, leprosy, Chagas disease, Dengue fever, now swine flu.
I’m sure Mr. Tea can provide us with evidence that the recent flu outbreak resulted from “illegal aliens who bypass health screenings.”
Can’t you, Mr. Tea?
TFJ for Crusty!
J.G.Thayer: “This isn’t glee. I’m not thrilled to be on the right side of this argument. When one predicts bad consequences, one is rarely happy when they play out.”
On a side note, the right accused the left of cheering for defeat when we warned that the Iraq war was poorly planned. It seems Mr. Thayer here might be covering for a guilty conscience. … Except with both know that while he is guilty, he has no conscience.
So, Crusty, the Smithfield connection is just a coincidence? Thanks for clearing that up. I said it was interesting, BUT needs further investigation — because it MIGHT just be a case of the correlation/causation fallacy. You’re saying that it was a definite coincidence? Got a link to back that up?
So this case is looking less and less like an illegal immigation problem, and that’s a good thing. For one, it means that the victims are not inclined to try to hide from authorities, but will be amenable to treatment and interviews about contacts.
I’ve been arguing in favor of meaningful immigration reform for some time — a streamlined, simpler, quicker process for legal immigrants and a nigh-draconian enforcement of border security and punishment for those who come here illegally or under false pretenses or overstay their paperwork. This is just one of the many reasons I argue that.
J.
So, Crusty, the Smithfield connection is just a coincidence? Thanks for clearing that up. I said it was interesting, BUT needs further investigation — because it MIGHT just be a case of the correlation/causation fallacy. You’re saying that it was a definite coincidence? Got a link to back that up?
Speaking of not being able to spot sarcasm…
Right wing Commentary Magazine fiction writer Jay Tea’s slippery, sleazy arguments are now changing positions from post to post.
Jay Tea starts with an ignorant, racist tinged accusation against unnamed (brown) immigrants, then shifts gears when it’s pointed out that, despite his false assertions, it’s American tourists to Mexico who are the principle cause of what Jay Tea is using to assail ‘illegal immigrants’ with.
That right winger Jay Tea would out himself as a racist, immigrant basher isn’t surprising, but it’s nonetheless disappointing.
Here’s the real undocumented immigrant solution: throw illegal employers in jail. Period.
But right wingers like Jay Tea find it easier to make up incendiary stories about how ‘illegal immigrants’ are the cause of ? whatever it’s useful to accuse the ‘other’ with to rile up their fellow racist extremists with.
Jay Tea: So this case is looking less and less like an illegal immigation problem…
Looking less? Got one shred of anything to show that it’s had ANYthing do do with illegal immigration?
No? Well don’t let that stop you from refusing to admit you were wrong about something.
The point. Jay Tea
The point. Jay Tea
The point. Jay Tea
The point. Jay Tea
The point. Jay Tea
The point. Jay Tea
(distance from the point is much farther than denoted here.)
I get it, if I said anything that stupid and racist, I would probably want to get as far away from it as possible.
try that again:
The point…..Jay Tea
The point……..Jay Tea
The point………..Jay Tea
The point…………..Jay Tea
The point……………..Jay Tea
the point………………..Jay Tea
Outsmarted by autoformatting again..
Mr. Tea at 4:57 a.m.:
The resurgence of many diseases that we thought we had pretty much eradicated over the years has been traced to illegal aliens who bypass health screenings…now swine flu.
This isn’t glee. I’m not thrilled to be on the right side of this argument.
Mr. Tea at 5:49 p.m.:
So this case is looking less and less like an illegal immigation problem, and that’s a good thing.
Excellent for you, Mr. Tea! Now you no longer have to carry the burden of being on “the right side” of the argument!!
Hooray!
SaveFarris:
Good to see our President taking the news so seriously: Now watch this drive…
And his predecessor spent HOW MUCH TIME on the Crawford Chickenshit Ranch? Including, say, August 2001, right after he’d been warned of a terrorist threat?
Shut up. Just shut the fuck up.
As others pointed out, this virus did not travel from Mexico to NYC via illegal immigrants. It travelled on some HS students taking a vacation in Cancun over Spring Break. However, the virus still had to travel from Central Mexico to Cancun, which is no small distance. The distance from Mexico City to Cancun is almost the same as the distance from Mexico City to every US border entry east of El Paso (EP is about 960 mi from Mex City and Cancun is about 850 mi from Mex City). This is also putting a whole lot of faith into accurate reporting of illness by the Mexican health officials. All of the deaths reported in Mexico have been in the Mexico City area, yet the virus had travelled from inland Mexico to the far east coast back in March.
Frankly, the people possibly carrying this virus who US officials need to worry about are people entering the country illegally. People travelling through the points-of-entry are being screened for their travel plans (where they were in Mexico and when) and signs of illness. Same for people entering the country via air and sea. Also, someone who legally entered the US is far more likely to seek medical attention if they start to show signs of being ill.
This virus spread to dozens of people in NYC through contact with a group of prep school students. How widely would it spread if the next outbreak starts because someone paid $500 for a guy in a van to drive them across some unmarked road in the Sonoran Desert into Yuma or Tucson?
There are, at last reports, five outbreaks. The NYC is apparently some students who went on spring break. The others… who knows?
Also, I won’t fault Obama for golfing. Big whoop. So he went golfing. A president is NEVER “off the clock” or “on vacation” — they’re on call 24/7/365, and that’s rarely only a potential.
I will fault him for not having a Secretary of Health and Human Services, a Surgeon General, or a bunch of other offices relevant to situations like this filled. For god’s sake, why not just call up the IRS and have them send over the name of a few dozen doctors caught cheating on their taxes?
J.
SFC B, do I understand you correctly? You’re saying that even though illegal immigrants weren’t the problem, they might have been?
I’m not sure what your point was supposed to be about the virus traveling from Mexico City to Cancun. Are we supposed to put a stop to that too somehow?
And this?
This virus spread to dozens of people in NYC through contact with a group of prep school students. How widely would it spread if the next outbreak starts because someone paid $500 for a guy in a van to drive them across some unmarked road in the Sonoran Desert into Yuma or Tucson?
Um, a lot less? The guy crossing illegally is staying out of sight. The prep school students all have school friends, families, social contacts, etc. What is more, their willingness to seek treatment didn’t mitigate the spread of the virus at all.
There are plenty of reasons one might argue for tighter border security. The “filthy-mexicans-all-carry-the-pestilence” isn’t one of the better choices.
Shorter SFC B: Didn’t you see the movie Outbreak? An illegal Mexican is just like the cute monkey.
This thread has brought out some of the dumbest comments I’ve ever seen. I’m not even going to bother rebutting, I’ll just bask in the warm glowing warming glow. Congratulations, I’m wondering if now is a good time to start cheering for the virus, it’s surely more sentient than some commenters here.
I will fault him for not having a Secretary of Health and Human Services,
I know! What’s the hold up with that anyway?
Republican George Bush II: “We must stop the terror. I call upon all nations to do everything they can to stop these terrorist killers, thank you. Now watch this drive.”
Starting two wars and then going golfing isn’t comparable to a (still relatively small) health emergency that should be handled by the Centers for Disease Control.
Than again, it was Republicans who mocked spending gov money on flu preparedness.
Any other false equivalencies you want debunked, “SaveFarris?”
By all means, “SaveFarris,” please continue to discredit the right-wing as idiotic know-nothings.
I will fault him for not having a Secretary of Health and Human Services, a Surgeon General, or a bunch of other offices relevant to situations like this filled.
JT, wtf?? You do realize that the HHS secretary is being held up by Senate Republicans over the abortion issue, right?
Mr. REID. Madam President, that is
very unfortunate, but I understand.
I now ask unanimous consent, as in
executive session, that at a time to be
determined by the majority leader, following
consultation with the Republican
leader, the Senate proceed to executive
session to consider Calendar
No. 62, the nomination of Kathleen
Sebelius to be Secretary of Health and
Human Services; that there be 5 hours
of debate with respect to this nomination,
with the time equally divided and
controlled between the leaders or their
designees; that upon the use or yielding
back of that time, the Senate proceed
to a vote on confirmation of Kathleen
Sebelius; that upon confirmation,
the normal procedure of the Senate be
followed and that following that we resume
legislative session.
The ACTING PRESIDENT pro tempore.
Is there objection?
Mr. MCCONNELL. Madam President,
reserving the right to object, this nomination
came out of committee yesterday.
It was fairly contentious. It was
not a party-line vote, but a number of
Members on my side opposed the nomination.
So at least for today, I am not
able to enter into a consent agreement
on a time specific to consider the nomination
of Governor Sebelius. I object.
The ACTING PRESIDENT pro tempore.
Objection is heard.
Mr. REID. Madam President, we need
not quibble on the time. It came out
Tuesday or Wednesday, and I understand
people may want to look at this
more closely. That is fine. It appears to
me it wouldn’t do me any good or the
Senate any good to ask for more time
at this time. No matter what time I set
aside, the Republican leader couldn’t
agree now?
Mr. MCCONNELL. I would say to my
friend, the majority leader, I cannot
today agree to a time specific for consideration
of this nomination.
Right winger Jay Tea: “I will fault him [Obama] for not having a Secretary of Health and Human Services”
Classic right wing trick: create a circumstance that you can blame on your opponent and then lie, lie, lie.
Jay Tea started with a racist post and has worked himself up to his usual bald faced lying.
REPUBLICANS HAVE BLOCKED THE APPOINTMENT OF OBAMA’S HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY KATHLEEN SEBELIUS.
And again, it was Republicans who mocked spending gov money on flu preparedness.
Racist Jay Tea is just following orders to lie, lie, lie.
JT, wtf?? You do realize that the HHS secretary is being held up by Senate Republicans over the abortion issue, right?
Let me guess. Obama’s fault for making such a “controversial” choice, right Mr. Tea?
“Let me guess. Obama’s fault for making such a “controversial” choice, right Mr. Tea?”
Right wing: do what we say or we’ll blame you for our obstruction.
SFC B: As others pointed out, this virus did not travel from Mexico to NYC via illegal immigrants. It travelled on some HS students taking a vacation in Cancun over Spring Break.
…
Frankly, the people possibly carrying this virus who US officials need to worry about are people entering the country illegally.
Wha-huh? so….. the route the virus actually took is irrelevant because we the people we really need to watch are the brown ones?
This virus spread to dozens of people in NYC through contact with a group of prep school students. How widely would it spread if the next outbreak starts because someone paid $500 for a guy in a van to drive them across some unmarked road in the Sonoran Desert into Yuma or Tucson?
Probably less than it would when carried by someone who is traveling thru airports, sitting in classrooms and lunch rooms with hundreds of other people who are all moving thru one of the most populous cities in the country.
But, yeah, let’s focus on the guys in the middle of the desert.
Jay writes “So this case is looking less and less like an illegal immigation problem, and that’s a good thing.”
Except in your racist little fantasy world, this story never had anything to do with illegal immigrants. Nothing. Zilch. Zero. The vector into America came from American tourists.
I guess with Dennis hiding you’ve decided to pick up the racist banner for him. And I’m glad, because you’re finally being honest about who you are — a hypocritical little bigot through and through.
As for illegal immigration understood generally, I’ve always thought of it as a demand-side problem. Shut down the employers who hire them and don’t pay the necessary minimum wage, provide benefits, etc., and thereby drive down the wages for legitimate jobs.
But it is funny to see you guys further alienate hispanic voters at every single chance you get. Have fun never winning the presidency ever again.
Jay Tea: I will fault him for not having a Secretary of Health and Human Services
Yeah. Why hasn’t he got Kathleen Sebelius in office yet? Oh, yeah. That’s right.
Now go ahead and backpedal, Jay.
Bluntly, yes, and still may be. A bunch of prep school students and their families aren’t going to be the people who cause a flu pandemic in an American city. They’re going to go see their doctor, the virus will be identified, and the people who were exposed will be tested and treated. As has been happening. Same with some person flying into Mexico on business or for a vacation.
The threat is going to be some individual who will not seek treatment due to the possibility of being arrested. Throw in the typical living conditions of someone in that situation and it’s a recipe for a serious problem. Is it a guarantee that it will be? Of course not. It’s not likely that the virus will mutate into something which is resistant to anti-viral treatments, or become more virulent.
The people who will respond to warnings about travel, and seeing a doctor, and calling in sick to work while they’re symptomatic are not the people who are going to advance an epidemic. The people who will advance an epidemic are the people can’t afford those precautions or aren’t in a position to go seek treatment. In this case some of those people happen to be people in the US illegally.
Upthread Crusty Dem had said “Of all the possible vectors of disease, an illegal alien crossing the border is the slowest moving, least widely spread possible.” While he’s right that a virus advancing as people migrate is going to be slowly moving, this virus has been around for a while in Mexico (at least late FEB early MAR) and spread from the inland area of Mexico City out to Cancun. If it’s in Cancun it’s in Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo, and Juarez. This virus has already spread itself to the borderland, where people enter the US legally and illegally. People entering legally at least have a chance to be screened prior to entering.
Um, no. He’s not staying out of sight. He’s living in a drophouse with a dozen other people who are coming and going just as he is. It’s also probable that he, or one of his fellow travelers, is working in food service. The agency he’s going to stay out of sight from though is going to be the clinic asking questions about ID and where to send the bill.
Um, yes it did mitigate the spread of the virus. If it hadn’t, instead of 40 some-odd people with the virus, getting treatment, and no deaths, you’d have 4,000 with the virus and several people dead.
Actually, the “illegal Mexican” would be more like the animal broker who illegally transported the monkey into the US. You know, since he avoided all the screenings and checkpoints which are designed to prevent such things from entering the US in the first place since those would have exposed his illegal activity.the route the virus actually took is irrelevant…The route it took to get into NYC is very relevant since it shows that the virus has spread internally throughout Mexico. Since there are over 11,000,000 people living in the area near the US-Mexico border it is very important to know how likely it is that a viral epidemic might be right across the Rio Grande.
Juarez-El Paso is the largest border metroplex in the world with a combined population of over 2,000,000 people. Brownsville and Matamoros is over 1,000,000, and there are 500,000 in Laredo-Nuevo Laredo. Some guy in the middle of the desert might be a problem. Enough people slip by at the well-monitored crossings to be a possible threat. The unmonitored ones are only worse.
“SFC B, do I understand you correctly? You’re saying that even though illegal immigrants weren’t the problem, they might have been?”
SFC B: “Bluntly, yes, and still may be.”
The Modern Republican Party… Finding a way to blame brown people, no matter what the facts are.
I’m trying to figure out how people in New York City spread the disease to less people than guys in a van in the middle of the desert.
Is there a migrant pig colony in the Sonora Desert that I’m not aware of? Perhaps a colony of teleporting migrant pigs with second residences in Los Angeles, Chicago and Miami? If so, I totally get it.
Um, yes it did mitigate the spread of the virus.
Incubation and contagion periods. Ever hear of ‘em? Our eight prep schoolers picked up the virus, got on an airplane, wandered through airports, went back to school, church, restaurants, etc., all before anyone realized what they had.
By the time the virus was identified, they weren’t contagious any more. Willingness to seek treatment didn’t do a thing to stop the spread.
SFC B, I’m not sure what your professional area of expertise is, but it sure ain’t medicine. Infection vectors don’t magically disappear just because a person is white or middle-class.
The fact is, swine flu got here through American tourists. Period. Trying to spin this any other way proves that you’ve gone pretty far down the bigot-hole with Jay and Dennis. Have fun down there.
Our eight prep schoolers picked up the virus, got on an airplane, wandered through airports, went back to school, church, restaurants, etc., all before anyone realized what they had.
Because middle class or not, the airlines can still cram more people in a jet than any coyote could jam into a “drophouse.” Then, of course, those several hundred people on the jet disperse to all over the fucking place too. Some of them, on to other jets to other countries.
If there’s every a pandemic in this country, it’ll get here via a major airport. Not a “drophouse.”
My guess is that SFC B is Jay Tea’s sockpuppet, saying the most idiotic racist garbage imaginable in the hope that we’ll forget Jay Tea’s slightly milder racist garbage.
A bunch of prep school students and their families aren’t going to be the people who cause a flu pandemic in an American city. They’re going to go see their doctor, the virus will be identified, and the people who were exposed will be tested and treated. As has been happening. Same with some person flying into Mexico on business or for a vacation.
Wow. I can only say that it is clear that the sum total of your knowledge appears to come from a Crichton movie, and you clearly didn’t even glean a fraction of the available information in that. Your faith in screenings and doctors visits in preventing disease spread is wildly misplaced. Just as before, I won’t rebut you since there’s not an actual fact in your rantings to argue about, you’re an idiot with poor reasoning abilities, and the sum total of your contribution is “it’s the evil brown people, until proven otherwise, and then it’s still the evil brown people”. Only an idiotic republican would look at the number of legal border crossings, on land or by air, and think of the relatively miniscule number of illegal crossings as a greater threat.
Did right winger SFC B really just compare Mexicans to monkeys?
SFC B, while your racist nonsense really defines modern day Republicanism, your demonization of brown people as somehow the ‘dirty’ vector of disease completely misses white Americans like Andrew Speaker who knowingly took an international FLIGHT while infected with a highly contagious type of drug-resistant tuberculosis.
“Crusty Dem” is right, the airports (and international flyers) are a far greater threat during a pandemic than desert crossing immigrants.
And again, the real undocumented immigrant solution is throwing all of the illegal employers in jail.
Right wing racists like SFC B and Jay Tea don’t understand that Republicans were never serious about immigration control.
Republicans like cheap, undocumented labor. Republicans like the fact that undocumented labor never complains, labor that is easy to threaten.
And Republicans are tools for the employers that hire undocumented immigrants.
That’s why Republican Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney hiring undocumented immigrants: cheap labor that never complains.
Even Republican Senator Gordon Smith was accused of hiring undocumented immigrants to work in his agri-business: cheap labor that never complains.
The real solution has always been to throw the illegal employers in jail, but that would put some of the real masters of the Republican Party in jail so will never happen.
Did right winger SFC B really just compare Mexicans to monkeys?
On this one, I’ll give him the benefit, he was responding to my “shorter” above, where I mocked his knowledge as coming from the movie “Outbreak”. Which is not to say that he hasn’t demonstrated an impressive grasp of Limbaughian racial insensitivity.
I know everyone thinks that Obama brings out the racist talk from the wingnuts, but nothing is as potent as the hatred of illegal aliens.
Crusty Dem was actually the one who made that comparison. But nice try to blame me for it though.
Sweet Jeebus on a lower case T. Is Mexico home to the most cases of this virus right now or is it not? If the virus managed to spread itself to Cancun, where it could be picked up by some American students, then it has probably made its way to the points of entry as well since far more Mexicans travel internally between Mexico City and the US-MEX border than travel between Mexico City and Cancun. It took Mexican health officials a couple of weeks to notice something was wrong, and they didn’t even realize it was a new strain of virus until the CDC announced the virus people had in NYC was the same as the one in Mexico. It has already spread as far north as Monterrey, which sits at the connection point between Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Mexico City, and is on the Panamerican highway from the US.
Where the hell am I wrong in that observation, and why the hell does race play into it in any way, shape, or form? How the hell does race factor into a consideration of a communicable disease moving in the direction which more people travel? This virus got into the US quickly through the airports. If it gets into the US en masse it will be through the half a million people crossing between the borders every day.
The epidemic will not come from the segments of the population who will seek treatment if and when they begin to develop symptoms. The epidemic will come when the segments of the population that will not go to seek treatment even after developing symptoms until they’re either dead or have passed it on to people who cannot be accounted for. For this particular virus the people most likely to have the virus, and have the incentive to not seek treatment, and do what they can to avoid being screened at any entry point, are going to be people entering the country illegally.
SFC B: “The epidemic will not come from the segments of the population who will seek treatment if and when they begin to develop symptoms.”
You really need to shut the fuck up. By the time the disease starts showing symptoms, it’s too late. You have been infectious for a while and have likely passed it on to many, many people.
Now take this opportunity to learn something about diseases and stop spreading your misinformation, which makes you look ignorant at best, racist at worst.
The epidemic will not come from the segments of the population who will seek treatment if and when they begin to develop symptoms. The epidemic will come when the segments of the population that will not go to seek treatment even after developing symptoms until they’re either dead or have passed it on to people who cannot be accounted for. For this particular virus the people most likely to have the virus, and have the incentive to not seek treatment, and do what they can to avoid being screened at any entry point, are going to be people entering the country illegally.
Wait wait wait…you think that they don’t get treatment because they LIKE being sick? Why the hell should we listen to anything you say ever from now on?
As C.S. points out, with your vast medical knowledge, I wouldn’t be surprised if you were found licking autistic kids.
Crusty: I use exactly one name here. This one. Period.
So, the Republicans are at fault for there being no HHS Secretary? Can I ask for a little consistency?
2001-2006: “Everything is the Republicans’ fault, because they control Congress and the White House.”
2007-2008: “Everything is the Republicans’ fault, because they control the White House.”
2009: “The Democrats control Congress and the White House, but it’s STILL all the Republicans’ fault!”
SFC B did NOT compare Mexicans to monkeys, but to illegal alien smugglers. The comparison is not inappropriate, as he/she spelled out.
Strowbridge once again shows the glowing tolerance for American rights and traditions with his classic riposte, “you really need to shut the fuck up.” That one never gets old.
No, the Republicans (at least the leadership) were not serious about border control recently. But at least with them, there’s a chance they might do something about it. The Democrats are at least honest about their “borders? what borders?” policy.
I still like my idea about using the IRS records to fill the ranks at HHS. Considering that cheating on taxes seems to be a perquisite for standing in the Obama administration, why not go straight to the source for new nominees?
J.
2009: “The Democrats control Congress and the White House, but it’s STILL all the Republicans’ fault!”
Which no one here is saying. We are saying that due to not having a filibuster proof majority in the Senate that the GOP can hold up appointments. You should know this, because there was a lot of “nuclear option” garbage during Bush’s term when the Democrats were accused of doing the same thing.
And you know, I’d be willing to let it drop, except that you seem to want to blame Obama – not the Democrats, but Obama himself- for the minority party holding up the appointment. I know you’re aware how the Senate works. I know all of us are prone to loud, obnoxious partisan stupidity here (myself included) but can we not be intentionally oblivious?
I still like my idea about using the IRS records to fill the ranks at HHS. Considering that cheating on taxes seems to be a perquisite for standing in the Obama administration, why not go straight to the source for new nominees?
No one laughed the first time, dude. Let it go.
And again, the real undocumented immigrant solution is throwing all of the illegal employers in jail.
Ah, but now you’re fucking with the invisible hand of the Free Market© and we can’t have that.
Jay Tea: So, the Republicans are at fault for there being no HHS Secretary? Can I ask for a little consistency?
2001-2006: “Everything is the Republicans’ fault, because they control Congress and the White House.”
2007-2008: “Everything is the Republicans’ fault, because they control the White House.”
2009: “The Democrats control Congress and the White House, but it’s STILL all the Republicans’ fault!”
So, the despite their actively blocking it Republicans aren’t at fault for there being no HHS Secretary? Can I ask for a little consistency?
2001-2006: “Everything isn’t the Republicans’ fault, just because they control Congress and the White House.”
2007-2008: “Everything isn’t the Republicans’ fault, just because they control the White House.”
2009: “The Democrats control Congress and the White House, so it’s all their fault!”
Zython re SFC B: Wait wait wait…you think that they don’t get treatment because they LIKE being sick? Why the hell should we listen to anything you say ever from now on?
Hold on a sec. SFC B didn’t say anything like anyone LIKES being sick. He was noting, accurately I believe, that lower income, illegal immigrants are less likely to seek medical attention when ill. Presumably because they a) can’t afford it and/or b) believe it will result in their getting into trouble (deportation, etc.).
There are enough debatable holes in the “it will be illegal immigrants and border crossers who spread any disease” argument that it isn’t necessary to mis-state what is being said.
The epidemic will not come from the segments of the population who will seek treatment if and when they begin to develop symptoms. The epidemic will come when the segments of the population that will not go to seek treatment even after developing symptoms until they’re either dead or have passed it on to people who cannot be accounted for.
Once again, thoroughly wrong. The progression of the disease is such that by the time patients are sick enough to warrant seeing a physician, the illness is generally past the contagious stage. Your faith in screening is highly amusing, especially since it hasn’t been implemented yet, and when it is, it will be “informal” (read: toothless). The foundations of your argument are nonsense, and your insistence that a handful of illegals trucking across the border are even worth considering when thousands of vectors are sharing a confined plane with hundreds of thousands of travelers to every region of the world every single day is either stupid or racist or both.
So, the Republicans are at fault for there being no HHS Secretary? Can I ask for a little consistency?
Jay Tea, you are, clearly, the stupidest person on the planet.
Crusty: I use exactly one name here. This one. Period.
That’s unfortunate, I had some hope you might have an alternate version capable of cogency.
So, the Republicans are at fault for there being no HHS Secretary? Can I ask for a little consistency?
Two questions, answers are 1) Yes 2) Have you been sniffing glue?
Strowbridge once again shows the glowing tolerance for
American rights and traditions with his classic riposte, “you really need to shut the fuck up.” That one never gets old.
I think CS was trying to help in that “The first rule of holes is when you’re in one, stop digging” sort of way.. You and SFC B have been bringing an interesting combination of ignorance, racial offensiveness, and ill-reasoned tripe to this discussion. The idea that maybe you should stop running your mouths and read something is a good one.
I still like my idea about using the IRS records to fill the ranks at HHS. Considering that cheating on taxes seems to be a perquisite for standing in the Obama administration, why not go straight to the source for new nominees?
You see, it’s super-funny because some of Obama’s previous nominees had to fix their previous tax returns due to errors. So maybe he should save time by looking for people with tax problems first, and see if they’re able to by head of HHS. Wow, your humor has layers. Maybe we can give you a microphone and put you in front of a brick wall. I can see it now: “And why is it called the Laffer curve? Liberals don’t realize the joke is on them! Ha Ha Ha! But seriously, lower marginal tax rates result in high government revenue. What? Stop laughing. I read it at National Review. That’s not a joke.” . Or maybe not.
Hold on a sec. SFC B didn’t say anything like anyone LIKES being sick. He was noting, accurately I believe, that lower income, illegal immigrants are less likely to seek medical attention when ill. Presumably because they a) can’t afford it and/or b) believe it will result in their getting into trouble (deportation, etc.).
I would agree with you, but he said:
For this particular virus the people most likely to have the virus, and have the incentive to not seek treatment,
“Incentive to not seek treatment” as in “don’t want treatment”. That’s what I have issue with. If he said “can’t seek treatment” as in “unable to get treatment” rather than what he said. You would be absolutely right.But the way he stated it reeks of “Those stupid Mexicans are too dumb to go to a hospital. HAR HAR HAR!”
The example I was thinking was the attempts by Republicans to regulate Fannie and Freddie, which was staunchly (and successfully) opposed by the Democrats, most notably by Chris “Friend of Angelo” Dodd and Barney “they’re perfectly healthy!” Frank. After all, the conventional wisdom around here (a delightful little oxymoron) is that it’s the Republicans’ fault that they failed, because they didn’t catch the problems and head them off in time.
That several Republicans did try, and were stymied by the concerted efforts of the Democrats, doesn’t seem to count. So all the vacancies in HHS are clearly Obama and the Senate leadership’s fault — no matter how much the Republicans are holding up Sebelius.
Have there even been attempts to hold confirmation hearings, or are the Republicans’ protests so intimidating to the Democrats that they don’t even dare to try anything?
J.
After all, the conventional wisdom around here (a delightful little oxymoron) is that it’s the Republicans’ fault that they failed, because they didn’t catch the problems and head them off in time.
Well, no, that’s not conventional wisdom. First, conventional wisdom is that Freddie & Fannie being regulated would have done little to halt or slow the mortgage crisis. Beliefs that F&F were healthy and that the mortgage crisis would not explode were wrong and bipartisan. But F&F were a symptom and not a root (or even significant) cause.
Those who say the Republicans are to blame for the crisis are oversimplifying things. It’s not the party that caused the problem, it’s the philosophy. The ideas of the conservative movement – many of which were adopted by the Democrats in the 90’s – were what led us to this financial crisis. America decided, once again in a relatively bipartisan fashion, that deregulation, regressive taxation and acquiescence to corporate demands were healthy for our country.
The difference is that the Democrats woke up and the Republicans are still living in a laissez faire fantasy land where the crisis was caused not by too little but too much regulation and that the whole problem could be fixed with lower taxes and even freer markets.
Either way, there are plenty of things that don’t come to the floor if the votes for cloture aren’t there. And since the beginning of your analogy was wrong, your conclusion is as well.
This virus has an incubation period of 1-2 days. If someone with the virus seeks treatment when they initially develop symptoms then that will reduce the number of people who they may expose. But I assume you already knew all about the short flash-to-bang time for this virus CSS, since you have done all that research and are so knowledgable.
But they can seek treatment, however they do so at the risk of being identified as someone in the country illegally. There is nothing that bars someone in that situation from seeking treatment, however this person might make the choice that it is better to risk illness than deportation. Hence why they are a far greater threat to health and safety than a tourist.
Wow dude. That’s a whole lot of projection going on there.
So, the Republicans are at fault for there being no HHS Secretary? Can I ask for a little consistency?
Mr. Tea, I provided you a snip from the Congressional Record showing Sen. McConnell blocking confirmation hearings. Now educate us, please. What is Sen. Reid’s option for forcing hearings?
(Of course, today it is moot because Sen. McConnell has realized that playing politics with the HHS nomination in the face of a public health crisis won’t turn out very well for him.)
Zython: “Incentive to not seek treatment” as in “don’t want treatment”. That’s what I have issue with. If he said “can’t seek treatment” as in “unable to get treatment” rather than what he said. You would be absolutely right.But the way he stated it reeks of “Those stupid Mexicans are too dumb to go to a hospital. HAR HAR HAR!”
Hmmm, I didn’t read it that way at all and think perhaps you’re seeing what you expect to see (i.e., that what SFCB writes comes from a racist perspective). I read “incentive to not seek treatment” as “there is a downside (potential deportation, for example) that outweighs the good (getting medical help (for something not recognized as being more than a temporary illness))”. (Admittedly, perhaps the way I expect to see it.)
In any event, enough trying to interpret what someone else meant when they are present and able to speak for themselves, so I leave it to SFC B to clarify.
SFC B: Wow dude. That’s a whole lot of projection going on there.
Ah, I see that he already has.
J.G.Thayer: “2009: ‘The Democrats control Congress and the White House, but it’s STILL all the Republicans’ fault!’”
No, you little shit. When the REPUBLICANS BLOCK A KEY NOMINATION, they get the blame for BLOCKING A KEY NOMINATION.
It’s not the party that’s in control, it’s the actual actions people take.
I know, I know. You are too fucking stupid to handle something as nuanced as judging people by their individual actions, but give it a try sometimes.
J.G.Thayer: “Strowbridge once again shows the glowing tolerance for American rights and traditions with his classic riposte, ‘you really need to shut the fuck up.’ That one never gets old.”
You really need to buy a fucking dictionary, you illiterate asshole.
With your lack of understanding of the English language, no wonder you were fired from being a blogger.
Sean D. Martin: “So, the despite their actively blocking it Republicans aren’t at fault for there being no HHS Secretary? Can I ask for a little consistency?
2001-2006: ‘Everything isn’t the Republicans’ fault, just because they control Congress and the White House.’
2007-2008: ‘Everything isn’t the Republicans’ fault, just because they control the White House.’
2009: ‘The Democrats control Congress and the White House, so it’s all their fault!’”
Dude, you got this all wrong. It’s…
2001-2006: ‘Nothing is the Republicans’ fault, even though they control Congress and the White House.’
2007-2008: ‘Nothing is the Republicans’ fault, even though they control the White House.’
2009: ‘The Democrats control Congress and the White House, so it’s all their fault!’”
The way you said it, it implies they are willing to take responsibility for something, but not everything.
J.G>Thayer: “Strowbridge once again shows the glowing tolerance for American rights and traditions with his classic riposte, ‘you really need to shut the fuck up.’ That one never gets old.”
Crusty Dem: “I think CS was trying to help in that ‘The first rule of holes is when you’re in one, stop digging’ sort of way..”
Yep. But J.G.Thayer’s reaction says more about him than it does about me. In Mr. Thayer’s mind, there’s no such thing as friendly advice (or unfriendly advice, as in this case). If you should do something, you should be forced to do something.
J.G.Thayer: “The example I was thinking was the attempts by Republicans to regulate Fannie and Freddie, which was staunchly (and successfully) opposed by the Democrats…”
J.G.Thayer, we can always count on you to defend racism. The Republicans had no interest in regulating Freddie / Mae, they wanted to gut the rules preventing Redlining, which was being used to prevent blacks and other minorities from getting loans, or at the least charging blacks and other minorities more for loans. This is racism, pure and simple.
And for the umpteenth time, Fannie / Mac didn’t cause the financial meltdown. There collapse was a symptom of the financial meltdown.
CSS: In Mr. Thayer’s mind, there’s no such thing as friendly advice
Well, much as I like to see (and join in) a pile on JT I gots to say (hoping too many worms don’t get out of the jar) I haven’t seen much in your phrasings to him that could count as “friendly advice”.
CSS: “In Mr. Thayer’s mind, there’s no such thing as friendly advice”
Sean D. Martin: “Well, much as I like to see (and join in) a pile on JT I gots to say (hoping too many worms don’t get out of the jar) I haven’t seen much in your phrasings to him that could count as ‘friendly advice’.”
Oh for fuck’s sake. I called it unfriendly advice, which if chopped from your response.
But clearly you are just looking to start something.
Sean, CSS takes care of that issue with his comment in bowlegs. He’s fully aware he’s an unfriendly ass.
Quaker:
Mr. Tea, I provided you a snip from the Congressional Record showing Sen. McConnell blocking confirmation hearings. Now educate us, please. What is Sen. Reid’s option for forcing hearings?
I wasn’t questioning what you said, merely its applicability. The established rule is that the party in power is absolutely responsible for everything that happens or doesn’t happen. I didn’t make that rule, I just suggested that it be applied consistently.
Strowbridge:
J.G.Thayer: “Strowbridge once again shows the glowing tolerance for American rights and traditions with his classic riposte, ‘you really need to shut the fuck up.’ That one never gets old.”
You really need to buy a fucking dictionary, you illiterate asshole.
Quite right. I should have written “again shows HIS glowing tolerance.” My apologies.
With your lack of understanding of the English language, no wonder you were fired from being a blogger.
The last time you spouted this libel, I had to threaten legal action for defamation to get you to back down and admit you were a lying sack of shit. Do we really need to do that dance again?
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/03/18/texas-engages-in-a-whole-new-breed-of-stupid-masters-degree-for-creationism/#comment-143571
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/03/18/texas-engages-in-a-whole-new-breed-of-stupid-masters-degree-for-creationism/#comment-143592
In that thread, Strowbridge, you first said I was fired, then said you knew I wasn’t fired, then said that you didn’t know whether I was fire, but felt like repeating it just because I reacted. I’d ask you to get your story straight, but that’s most likely something far beyond your very limited capacity.
You say, repeatedly, that I’ve been “fired from blogging.” I say, categorically, that I have never been “fired from blogging” from any site, and you are a lying sack of shit who is just pulling things out of his ass because you have nothing better to say or do. I say, categorically, that you have absolutely nothing to back up that claim, and I say, categorically, that I can present considerable evidence proving what I claim.
Do we really need to go through with this again, you fucking Pavlovian imbecile? Stick to the bullshit you’ve perfected — how every single person who disagrees with you is a Nazi Klansman racist who beats off to the sight of nooses hanging from trees. At least that one is clearly you talking out of your ass.
J.
Do we really need to go through with this again, you fucking Pavlovian imbecile?
I for one say “Yes!” we really do need to go through with all that again.
This time let’s through in the angle that anyone who could write something as imbecilic as this:
should be fired from, well, any position of responsibility.
Do we really need to do that dance again?
Do it, Jay Tea! Do the Dance!
Do it, Jay Tea! Do the Dance!
You say that, I hear “Do the Dance of Joy, Numfar.” And the results are even uglier.
J.
The established rule is that the party in power is absolutely responsible for everything that happens or doesn’t happen. I didn’t make that rule, I just suggested that it be applied consistently.
In other words, you’re talking complete rubbish and insist on continuing. Given irrefutable evidence of Republican obstructionism, your response is: LA-LA-LA-LA!
J.G.Thayer: “I wasn’t questioning what you said, merely its applicability. The established rule is that the party in power is absolutely responsible for everything that happens or doesn’t happen. I didn’t make that rule, I just suggested that it be applied consistently.”
You are a fucking liar. The rule is, and had always been, you take responsibility for your actions. If you ignore a warning of a terrorist attack, because you think the guy who wrote it is just covering his ass, then you take responsibility when that attack occurs. If you block confirmation of a head of a government agency, then you take responsibility when that government agency can’t do its job.
I know it’s more complicated than you can handle, but please try.
J.G.Thayer: “Strowbridge once again shows the glowing tolerance for American rights and traditions with his classic riposte, ‘you really need to shut the fuck up.’ That one never gets old.”
Me: “You really need to buy a fucking dictionary, you illiterate asshole.
Quite right. I should have written “again shows HIS glowing tolerance.” My apologies.”
Wow. Way to miss the point. I was offering advice, not advocating legal force be brought against you.
Me: “With your lack of understanding of the English language, no wonder you were fired from being a blogger.”
J.G.Thayer: “The last time you spouted this libel, I had to threaten legal action for defamation to get you to back down and admit you were a lying sack of shit.”
Two points…
1.) Please sue me. The cost of the retainer will be higher than any amount of money you would recover from me.
2.) I never backed down and admitted I lied; I admitted I was trolling you. There’s a difference. Also, I merely admitted I knew you claimed you were fired, but I have no reason to believe that. In fact, given your reaction, I’m more convinced you were fired than before I said it.
Just to emphasize…
I, C.S.Strowbridge, believe J.G.Thayer was fired as a blogger. My evidence is, as Shakespeare said, ‘Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.’
And no, that’s not libel.
“Do we really need to do that dance again?”
You realize you lost that debate, right? You acted like a complete ass and people were laughing at you.
You are self-aware enough to realize that, right?
You think round two will go any better for you?
You assert.
I deny. I reject.
You got about as much proof as you have sense and coherency.
Put up or shut up, you lying sack of shit.
Of course, you’ve repeatedly shown you lack the character or intelligence to do either — you just generate more and more bullshit, a cornucopia beyond the wildest dreams of any coprophage.
Give the blog. Give the date. Give the circumstances. Give the proof.
I laid it all out the last time, proving what a lying sack of shit you were. And I didn’t even have to do that — as the accuser, the burden is on your shoulders. And you can’t do a damned thing.
Thanks again for proving what a worthless, lying, fabricating, irresponsible asswipe you have always been.. and always will be.
J.
Jesus, Jay Tea, whatever you want to say about Strowbridge’s character, he sure can play you like a fiddle, dude.
CSS: Oh for fuck’s sake. I called it unfriendly advice, which if chopped from your response.
But clearly you are just looking to start something.
Ah, so it did. I saw the parenthetical but then overlooked it when I went back an re-read. My bad.
An an Oh for fuck’s sake to you to, BTW. Because clearly I was not.
J.G.Thayer: “You assert.
I deny. I reject.”
You dodge. You weave.
You whine. You cry.
You do whatever it takes to make yourself the center of the debate, so you don’t have to defend the bullshit you’ve spread.
“Give the blog. Give the date. Give the circumstances. Give the proof.”
I’ve already explained my position. If you want more, you can have your lawyer serve me papers.
“Thanks again for proving what a worthless, lying, fabricating, irresponsible asswipe you have always been.. and always will be.”
Ass total racist, and you have described yourself perfectly.
In the meantime, I’d like to get back to the topic at hand. Namely, your assertion that the Swine Flu has something to do with illegal immigrants, despite a total lack of evidence backing it up.
So far in your attempt to blame the brown people, you’ve ignored hard facts (NYC outbreak was cause by tourists), biological facts (you are contagious before and symptoms show), and common sense (plans carry more people faster and farther than vans carrying illegal immigrants).
So what’s your next claim that we can laugh at?
Or are you going to valiantly tilt at the windmills of my childish insults? Cause really, I’m game either way. I could make fun of your small penis if it would help you decide.
So true, fafaroo — all he has to do is make his lies particularly egregious. And it’s amazing how many people here who consider themselves of high character and so interested in the truth either ignore him or egg him on.
But back to the topic at hand… what was it again? Oh, yeah. The “swine flu” refers to the virus’ genesis, not its particular origin. So I’m leaning towards “interesting coincidence,” and not towards “smoking gun” with the pig farm connection. Similarly, it’s believed that AIDS came from monkeys, but I doubt any people with AIDS today got it from a monkey.
Naturally, I’m no expert, but until an expert says something, I’m as qualified to comment on it as anyone.
J.
Shorter Strowbridge: “I got nothing. I just get my rocks off flinging my shit like a monkey.”
Oh, no, I compared Strowbridge to a monkey! I must be a racist.
Oh, I’m sorry. I must be a RACIST!!!!!111!!!1!
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Shorter Strowbridge: ‘I got nothing. I just get my rocks off flinging my shit like a monkey.’”
Shorter J.G.Thayer: “I REFUSE TO TALK ABOUT THE SUBJECT AT HAND! I ONLY WANT TO TALK ABOUT ME!”
“Oh, no, I compared Strowbridge to a monkey! I must be a racist.
Oh, I’m sorry. I must be a RACIST!!!!!111!!!1!”
You are a racist, as your attacks against illegal immigrants here show. But this is not evidence of that, because I’m not black.
You see, I look at the individual circumstances and judge based on that.
J.G.Thayer: “Naturally, I’m no expert, but until an expert says something, I’m as qualified to comment on it as anyone.”
Clearly you are not an expert, nor are you as qualified to comment as anyone.
You implied people are not contagious till they show symptoms.
This is not the case.
You are wrong.
You don’t know what you are talking about.
You are less qualified than others here.
Shut up and learn something.
By the way… Swine Flu comes from… Swine. Hence the name.
On a side note…
Is it just me, or is J.G.Thayer a little… well… stupid.
Maybe not stupid exactly, but he sure seems unwilling or incapable of doing basic research.
“The ’swine flu’ refers to the virus’ genesis, not its particular origin.”
A 10-second perusal of Wiki shows that yes, humans catch Swine Flu from pigs. If he’s using any recently made browser, he should have a Google search on his main tool bar. Type in, “Swine Flu Wiki” and ta da! Knowledge.
It’s sad that he won’t even do that.
Perhaps that’s why he was fired as a blogger.
(Tee he he.)
Okay, I promise I’ll drop that for while.
Naturally, I’m no expert, but until an expert says something, I’m as qualified to comment on it as anyone.
ROFLMA! Really? Seriously? That’s how you view the world? So until a qualfied expert comes to this thread to tell you you’re wrong, you feel free to state as fact whatever stupid batshit crazy thing pops into your head?
That is just too awesome. And it explains a lot about discourse on the Right: Free to spout nonsense as long as we want until the experts show up!
I honestly believe that it is possible for Strowbridge to disagree with someone without calling them a racist.
I have to believe it, because there’s not a single shred of evidence to back it up — therefore, it has to be a matter of faith and not knowledge.
I thought the argument here was that the NYC cases were caused by students taking spring break in Mexico. Did they have a kegger at a pig farm?
As I said, the pig farm correlation is interesting… but nothing more than interesting until some actual scientific investigation is done.
Strowbridge says he’ll drop his lies. He said that before.
J.
Shenanigans! Officer Barbrady, I wanna declare Shenanigans on this
carnival operatorblog commenter.http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/02/18/murdochs-ny-post/
By any reasonable look at the circumstances surrounding that goat rope there was no racial intent, and yet you spent two days squealing like a stuck pig about how it was unvarnished racism and anyone who had an opposing view wasn’t worth a used tampon.
FIFY
J.G.Thayer: “I honestly believe that it is possible for Strowbridge to disagree with someone without calling them a racist.
I have to believe it, because there’s not a single shred of evidence to back it up — therefore, it has to be a matter of faith and not knowledge.”
I’ve never called Sean D. Martin racist, and I’ve had some heated disagreements with him.
“I thought the argument here was that the NYC cases were caused by students taking spring break in Mexico. Did they have a kegger at a pig farm?”
Oh for fuck sake.
Do you know what the term, ‘Patient Zero’ means?
“As I said, the pig farm correlation is interesting… but nothing more than interesting until some actual scientific investigation is done.”
Does WHO count?
SFC B: “By any reasonable look at the circumstances surrounding that goat rope there was no racial intent…”
You are kidding, right?
(The link is dead, so I believe this is the dead chimp cartoon.)
As I said there, “At best, at absolute best, this is a case of Freudian racism.”
You might not think it is racist, but you are not a reasonable observer here.
You might be stretching things a bit when you’re having to make-up conditions to explain how something is racist.
To paraphrase Freud… sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.
Link worked fine for me but I have been having some off and on issues viewing this site recently. Has Mr. Willis been monkeying with the code again?
Me: “Freudian racism.”
SFC B: “You might be stretching things a bit when you’re having to make-up conditions to explain how something is racist.”
A Freudian slip is a real thing. Racism is a real thing.
Combine the two and you get “Freudian racism.”
I doubt I’m coining a term here, and I’m not making up anything.
“To paraphrase Freud… sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.”
And sometimes it’s fucking racism.
To say there’s no reasonable interpretation that this was racist is pure bullshit.
Absolutely 100% pure bullshit.
Jay Tea: The ’swine flu’ refers to the virus’ genesis, not its particular origin.
OK, someone want to clarify the distinction between “genesis” and “origin” for me, ’cause that looks kinda contradictory and nonsensical to me.
Sean, I was trying to differentiate where the virus originally came from, versus the current vector. The AIDS example was to show that, under current theory, AIDS was a monkey disease that jumped to humans — and then became a human-to-human disease. Swine flu, as I understand it, is currently being passed human-to-human — but originally was a combination of two different influenza viri, one human and one porcine. It’s not just a pig virus that hits humans — so it doesn’t need a direct connection to pigs to explain the recent outbreak. Therefore, the connection to pig farms is only coincidental until shown otherwise. It certainly should be investigated, as it’s a very odd coincidence, but right now this cigar’s just a cigar.
I understand your confusion, Sean — we’ve gotten so far away from the original article, it’s easy to have gotten lost.
J.
SFC B, I wouldn’t get too cocky. I don’t think I’d ever accused anyone on this site of racism before this comment thread. It’s often a fine line between uninformed idiot and racist and if there’s doubt, I’ll always choose the former. That said, you and Jay Tea have so perfectly demonstrated a clear preconception of “the problem is from the dirty brown people crossing our borders”, to the point of ignoring all evidence to the contrary, there’s really no other option.
I, for one, will have a very hard time getting Jay Tea’s (non-)gleeful gloating out of my head.
Shorter Strowbridge: “I really, really like how Tea reacts when I lie about him, so I’m going to repeat this lie that I pulled out of my lying ass with nothing to back it up every now and then because I find it more entertaining than just playing with my own feces and smearing them on the wall. Plus, it’s a refreshing change from howling RACIST!!!!111!!1 at the drop of a hat.”
That’s purely speculative, of course, but certainly consistent with his conduct around here.
And Sean… you might just be the sole exception to Strowbridge’s calling racism. He’s so ready to cite you as an example that I wager he decided a while ago to avoid it with you JUST so he’d have someone he could cite as an example.
“Strowbridge, you call EVERYONE who disagrees with you a racist.” (cite a dozen examples)
“No, I’ve never called Sean one! So there!”
What’s that phrase about the exception proving the rule?
J.
J.G.Thayer: The ’swine flu’ refers to the virus’ genesis, not its particular origin.
Sean D. Martin: “OK, someone want to clarify the distinction between ‘genesis’ and ‘origin’ for me, ’cause that looks kinda contradictory and nonsensical to me.”
According to J.G.Thayer’s use of the words, ‘genesis’ means were it came from originally. Where it was first identified.
On the other hand, he is using ‘Origin’ to describe where this particular outbreak started.
He’s wrong in almost every conceivable way.
JT-The “swine flu” refers to the virus’ genesis, not its particular origin.
Sean-OK, someone want to clarify the distinction between “genesis” and “origin” for me, ’cause that looks kinda contradictory and nonsensical to me.
You’ve got to remember that Jay Tea is a republican (despite his vehement denials), so the terms mean something very different than to you or I. Genesis, for example, would seem to mean “starting point”, but to a Republican, it means the book of the bible, and as Leviticus says, no one should eat pork, thus the swine flu is a divine punishment. Origin, which would also appear to mean “starting point”, is republican code for “Darwin” from his seminal work “Origin of the Species”. Taken as a whole and run through my Republican-English translator, it appears he’s saying “Swine flu is God’s vengeance against the evil, pork-eating brown people, and cannot be explained by natural selection”. Another possibility is that he’s lost it, again.
Alternatively, as Jay Tea said:
Naturally, I’m no expert, but until an expert says something, I’m as qualified to comment on it as anyone.
There is a fascinating investigation into the American agricultural corporation Smithfield Farms from a couple of years ago that looks at Smithfield Farms pattern of generating an estimated 26 MILLION TONS OF PIG EXCREMENT A YEAR*.
Much of Smithfield Farms pig excrement is incredibly toxic, the kind of toxic brew that might reasonably be suspected of generating the mish-mashed swin-flu virus.
The Smithfield Farms tons of pig excrement, mixed with “insecticide, antibiotic syringes, [and] stillborn pigs”, is an AMERICAN environmental disaster that is assuredly much worse under Mexico’s lax environmental laws.
Smithfield Farms’ Mexico operation is currently “co-operating with the Mexican authorities’ attempts to locate the possible source of the outbreak and will submit samples from its herds at its Granjas Carroll subsidiary to the University of Mexico for tests.”
It’s possible that Smithfield Farms mountains of toxic pig excrement isn’t responsible for generating the conditions the bred the virus but they are currently a prime suspect.
Completely unreported by the corporate media is the fact that the prime suspect is an AMERICAN CORPORATION operating via the right wing international ‘free market’ system of externalizing costs, in this case by dumping tons of pig shit on poor Mexican communities.
It’s the same method of operation that Smithfield Farms uses in the US. As a Brit investigation points out, “Smithfield, which is led by pork baron Joseph W Luter III, has previously been fined for environmental damage in the US. In October 2000 the supreme court upheld a $12.6m (£8.6m) fine levied by the US environmental protection agency which found that the company had violated its pollution permits in the Pagan River in Virginia which runs towards Chesapeake Bay. The company faced accusations that [fecal] faecal and other bodily waste from slaughtered pigs had been dumped directly into the river since the 1970s .”
It’s remarkable that right wingers can turn what is probably a flu virus created by the toxic industrial waste created by an American pig corporation into blaming brown people.
Perhaps Republicans think Mexican-American voters aren’t listening to right wing racist conservative commentators vilify them.
But in case any Mexican-American voters are listening, they should check out the big Democratic Tent, it accepts everyone, even moderate Republicans
* that figure might only be from the American operation and might not include Smithfield Farms international operation.
Jay Tea: And Sean… you might just be the sole exception to Strowbridge’s calling racism. He’s so ready to cite you as an example that I wager he decided a while ago to avoid it with you JUST so he’d have someone he could cite as an example.
Well, I think you’re crediting CSS with a whole lot more planning and cunning than I’ve seen him tend to display. But he’s right. I can’t recall him ever calling me a racist. LOTS of other pejorative, inaccurate terms that haven’t done much to advance a discussion, but that’s the CSS we’ve come to know and love and we try not to get worked up over his occasional Tourettishness.
I don’t think I’d ever accused anyone on this site of racism before this comment thread. It’s often a fine line between uninformed idiot and racist and if there’s doubt, I’ll always choose the former. Crusty Dem
You chose to call me both, Crusty Dem.
“Rarely has anyone here (ok, maybe Dennis) so clearly demonstrated themselves to be both a racist AND a complete moron.”
Liberals calling anyone they disagree with a moron is a given, but you called me a racist too with nothing to back it up ar the even an example. And then you act like it’s a charge you don’t make lightly, unlike the resident Mr. Tourette’s here.
And that’s called lying, Crusty.
J.G.Thayer: “And Sean… you might just be the sole exception to Strowbridge’s calling racism. He’s so ready to cite you as an example that I wager he decided a while ago to avoid it with you JUST so he’d have someone he could cite as an example.”
Wow. That’s some serious paranoia. How much pot did you smoke before writing that?
On a serious note, it’s called Post Hoc explanation, and it is a logical fallacy.
Try again.
“‘Strowbridge, you call EVERYONE who disagrees with you a racist.” (cite a dozen examples)
‘No, I’ve never called Sean one! So there!’
What’s that phrase about the exception proving the rule?”
Two points…
1.) The phrase is, “The exception that proofs the rule.” ‘Proofs’ in this case is Old English for tests. It’s the exception that tests the rule. In other words, when you see an exception, you are supposed to re-evaluate the rule. Something you choose not to do.
2.) I’ve disagreed with others here that I haven’t called racist. I don’t call people racist unless they do something that shows they are racist. At one point on this site I’ve argued with just about everyone; how many have I called racist?
Dennis the Bigot: “And that’s called lying, Crusty.”
Only to you could doing what you say you do be called lying.
Crusty Dem said that if there were doubt, if there were doubt, he would call someone stupid and not racist.
There’s no doubt with you, Dennis. Your anti-Semitic outburst was clear enough for any reasonable observer.
And by the way, it is also proof that we don’t drop accusations of racism without some evidence. We didn’t immediately call you racist*, we asked you to explain, and only after your explanations proved to be… less than compelling, and contradictory, did we judge you to be racist.
* – Technically, being Jewish isn’t a race, but the term racist is accepted in this case.
You called me a racist for something I never wrote.
Me: “At one point on this site I’ve argued with just about everyone; how many have I called racist?”
SFC B: “You called me a racist for something I never wrote.”
You said it was acceptable for people to worry about crime going up when minorities move into their neighborhood because sometimes it happens.
When and where have I ever written anything along those lines?
There is a fascinating investigation into the American agricultural corporation Smithfield Farms from a couple of years ago that looks at Smithfield Farms pattern of generating an estimated 26 MILLION TONS OF PIG EXCREMENT A YEAR*.
Wow. I’ve been wondering what Strowbridge does for work. Now we know…
J.
Me: I don’t think I’d ever accused anyone on this site of racism before this comment thread. It’s often a fine line between uninformed idiot and racist and if there’s doubt, I’ll always choose the former. Crusty Dem
You chose to call me both, Crusty Dem.
“Rarely has anyone here (ok, maybe Dennis) so clearly demonstrated themselves to be both a racist AND a complete moron.”
Ahh, Dennis, you never let me down. Your example of me calling someone a racist “before this comment thread” is a quote from this comment thread!! Thanks for clearly demonstrating how correct I am to call you a moron. Do you have an example of me previously calling you a racist? I may be wrong (which is why I qualified), but I tend to stick with analyzing your stupidity over your many other flaws.
* – Technically, being Jewish isn’t a race, but the term racist is accepted in this case. Tourette’s Strowbridge
You’re such an ass-clown, Strowbridge. If Crusty Dem calls me a racist because of your contorted logic in coming to that conclusion, since he didn’t argue that with me before, then he’s a bigger ass-clown than you. Printing someone’s birth name, a name that not all people who share the same surname are Semitic, is not racist to anyone but you. And you lie, as usual, when you call it an outburst. There’s been no other mention by me of anything to do with Semitism in any way, pro or con, and there was none in that post. It’s all too common for you here when you have a weak case built on your biased preconceptions to resort to embellishment, and calling that an Anti-Semitic outburst is ridiculous.
And the only person whose side in an argument is compelling to you is your own. That applies to everyone you’ve ever had a discussion with here.
You’re a liar, Strowbridge. And you have a horrible case of white guilt that you assuage by running around calling everyone you disagree with a racist.
SFC B: “When and where have I ever written anything along those lines?”
On this site, not too long ago.
If you want a link, you will have to look it up. After you you claimed I called you racist for something you never said. So you have to prove it first.
Find the evidence to prove you claim and you will find the evidence to prove mine.
If you want a link, you will have to look it up. After you you claimed I called you racist for something you never said. So you have to prove it first.
How is someone supposed to prove that they never said something?
Honestly, if you’re accusing someone of something, the burden of proof falls on you, not the accused.
Dennis the Bigot: “You’re a liar, Strowbridge. And you have a horrible case of white guilt that you assuage by running around calling everyone you disagree with a racist.”
Translation: ‘There is no racism, only white guilt.’
You are a fucking racist piece of shit, and your last post just proves it.
“Printing someone’s birth name, a name that not all people who share the same surname are Semitic, is not racist to anyone but you.”
Wow. You really are a fucking retard, as well as a massive bigot.
First of all, it wasn’t just me who questioned you about it. In fact, I wasn’t the first.
Secondly, when you were questioned about it, you lied about why you called him that. Repeatedly.
You’re bullshit excuses were…
1.) It’s his name.
2.) You saw it in a newspaper.
3.) His brother’s a banker.
4.) Jon Stewart never explained why he changed it.
5.) Just because.
6.) You were trolling Jon Stewart.
And others.
Me: “If you want a link, you will have to look it up. After you you claimed I called you racist for something you never said. So you have to prove it first.”
Eric Sipple: “How is someone supposed to prove that they never said something?
Honestly, if you’re accusing someone of something, the burden of proof falls on you, not the accused.”
And HE accused me of something.
HE should post a link to that original accusation.
If he does, it will contain the proof that he’s looking for.
J.G.Thayer: “Wow. I’ve been wondering what Strowbridge does for work. Now we know…”
Two points…
1.) As others have pointed out, wit is not your forte. Stop trying to be funny.
2.) At least I still have a job. (Tee hee hee.)
Hey, you set yourself up.
If Crusty Dem calls me a racist because of your contorted logic in coming to that conclusion, since he didn’t argue that with me before, then he’s a bigger ass-clown than you.
Like I said, I tend to stick with analyzing your stupidity over your many other flaws. You’re a veritable smorgasbord of fail, so I don’t think leaving your racism for others to debate is a flaw on my part. Those of us who have argued with you all have our own personal piques, CS goes after the racism (with a vigor I find terrifying), News Ref goes after the inaccuracies (with more detail than I have the energy for), and I go after the inability to realize that 1+1=2. I comment mostly to laugh at teh stupid, and I find nothing funny about racism. So while I have called you out for gay baiting and apparent anti-Semitism, it’s certainly not my focus. FWIW, your explanation for calling Stewart by his birthname was awesomely hilarious, and peaked with your “I’m just a freak who randomly calls people by their birthname for no apparent reason so ignore me doing something that’s weirdly anti-Semitic”-defense.
I’ve been trying to figure out what Strowbridge’s criteria is for calling someone a racist, and I keep coming up blank. As I recall, I’ve done two things that have provoked his “wrath:”
1) I have called for rigorous enforcement of immigration laws and a crackdown on illegal immigration. That I’ve also called for loosening of immigration requirements and easing the burden on those trying to come here legally matters not, it seems.
B) I have refused to agree with Strowbridge’s obsession that the “Southern Strategy” applies to everything and anything.
III) I participated in the mockery of that Republican mayor who sent out the postcard with the watermelons on the White House lawn, saying that the guy was so stupid that he didn’t even have a cover story handy to try to rationalize his blatantly racist attempt at humor.
d) I pointed out that Limbaugh’s poor joke about how the pirate situation would have played out among certain circles had it happened under Bush by tying it to the statements made by Kanye West (”George Bush doesn’t care about black people”) and Spike Lee (”the government blew up the levees”) and noting that it was a logical extension of that mentality.
I think there might be something to that theory that Strowbridge is suffering from white guilt and projecting it on anyone who doesn’t hold to his orthodoxy about racial issues.
Or, perhaps, Strowbridge himself is not white, and is of a kind with West, Lee, and the like. I personally don’t know Strowbridge’s ethnicity.
And I could care less. Assholery of his magnitude transcends all racial barriers.
J.
Er… four. Actually, a host more, but there are four he keeps harping on.
(Oh, great. Is that another racial slur?)
J.
I went scanning back through the past few months of OW.com posts looking for posts where I commented. Going back to late DEC 2008 I never wrote anything along the lines of what CSS has claimed is proof that I am a racist.
I do not recall participating in a discussion about minorities moving into a neighborhood on this site, my own site, or any other site where I comment or write. I don’t even remember reading a post on OW.com which would have such a topic generated in the comments. Quite frankly I think that CSS is either confusing me with someone else, or he’s making it all up and relying on the fact that it would be very time-intensive for me to try and disprove his claims.
Honestly CSS, you trying to claim that I’m a racist based on a comment I may or may not have made, and resorting to the “you find it!” defence when challenged on the accuracy of your claims is really, really weak sauce.
I’ve mockingly accused you of racism and I’ve made several accusations that you’re not mentally stable.
And based on the wicked circular logic you used in these past couple of comments I am going to remake my accusation that you really should seek some sort of therapy dude. It’s for your own good and it’s not a sign of weakness.
Right wing trolls immediately start blaming “illegal aliens” for a flu brought into the country primarily by AMERICAN students, a flu that has so far been traced back to an AMERICAN pig corporation which has a 30 year track record of ignoring basic sanitation laws.
Then, when those right wing trolls are called out for being bigoted and stupid for blaming “illegal aliens,” a phrase that’s been a code phrase used by racists for decades, they throw a tantrum.
Typical right wingers, they throw out bigoted, stupid, even racist tinged accusations that blame “illegal aliens” for things that there is no evidence to support even when the real supporting evidence points to AMERICAN travelers and an AMERICAN corporation.
Yes, Jay Tea, you are clearly a racist. And from what I’ve read of the Commentary Magazine you work for, it may be a prerequisite to work there. Parts of Commentary Magazine read like Stormfront members are the bloggers.
As for Dennis, Dennis, sometimes it’s better to keep your mouth shut and not be known for a fool. Nonetheless, Dennis, your continual discrediting of the right wing every time you hack out a post is appreciated.
SFC B, after rereading some of your posts it might be said that calling ‘racist’ is pre-judging you.
Nonetheless, blaming immigrants when the largest outbreak was directly tied to American travelers does seem awfully bigoted.
Like I said, I tend to stick with analyzing your stupidity over your many other flaws. You’re a veritable smorgasbord of fail, so I don’t think leaving your racism for others to debate is a flaw on my part. Crusty Dem
No, Crusty, you called me a racist, and so far you haven’t given even a hint of an example of it from me.
If, as you claim, you don’t make racist charges lightly, what is your basis for calling me a racist? So far, you’ve given none.
You are being Strowbridge v2.0, yet claiming you are anything of the sort.
SFC B: “I do not recall participating in a discussion about minorities moving into a neighborhood on this site, my own site, or any other site where I comment or write.”
Then how do you know I made this attack? You’ve accused me of this in the past. If you don’t remember the discussion, what makes you think I made the attack in the first place?
“Honestly CSS, you trying to claim that I’m a racist based on a comment I may or may not have made, and resorting to the “you find it!” defence when challenged on the accuracy of your claims is really, really weak sauce.”
You accused me of calling you a racist, and you never even attempted to back it up. Now telling me to tell you to go find it is weak sauce is itself weak sauce.
This is fun.
On a serious note, if you don’t have any evidence that I called you racist for something you’ve never said, stop saying I did.
If you don’t bring it up, neither will I.
Dennis the Bigot: “You are being Strowbridge v2.0, yet claiming you are anything of the sort.”
It’s amazing how so many people here call you racist. Yet you are completely innocent of the charge, right? It must be tough being persecuted like that.
SFC B: “The people who will advance an epidemic are the people can’t afford those precautions or aren’t in a position to go seek treatment. In this case some of those people happen to be people in the US illegally.”
SFC B, this is a ironically an argument for affordable healthcare (universal, single payer has a nice ring to it).
It’s also part of the argument amongst law enforcement professionals. When you make an undocumented immigrant an “illegal alien” it creates an entire underground which avoids all contacts with not only health professionals but also law enforcement Officers.
In some of the states with a large number of undocumented immigrants, getting them to come forward in cases of illegal activity is almost impossible unless there is a kind of ‘open door’ policy that won’t have them, their entire family, and all of their friends suddenly being chased down and deported if the want to step up and report a crime.
It’s part of the auto ‘license’ debate as well. If I get in an accident with an undocumented immigrant, are they going to run for fear of being deported? If having a license means they’ll stay and do the right thing, well, give them a license to keep track of them.
And again, the solution to undocumented immigrants is to throw their illegal employers in jail.
It really is that simple.
By the way, Democratic President Clinton had a much better record on immigration enforcement throughout his Presidency.
Republican President Bush ignored undocumented immigrants until 2007, that’s when the the Republican base started throwing a fit that Bush had a worse immigration enforcement record than Clinton.
And keep in mind that ‘amnesty’ for undocumented immigrants was done under Republican Ronald Reagan’s administration.
Funny how that’s never mentioned by those that idolize Reagan.
So, News, you’re comparing a Jewish magazine with neo-Nazis? Aren’t you a really clever, classy piece of shit! Did you get that talking point from Hamas, Hezbollah, or straight from the mullahs of Iran?
God, I thought you were worthless before.
J.
It’s amazing how so many people here call you racist. Yet you are completely innocent of the charge, right? It must be tough being persecuted like that. –Tourettes Syndrome Strowbridge
The only thing that’s amazing is that no one making the claim, and nearly everyone here who doesn’t share your political views has been charged with it, is able to cite even one example.
There is nothing amazing about being called a racist at this site. If there is any mid-tier blogger out there who makes specious claims of racism at the drop of a hat more than Oliver does, I’m unaware of it. So it’s only logical that he would attract freaks such as yourself, Strowbridge, who would delight in doing the same.
Only you make everyone else here, including Oliver, quite mild by comparison.
Nooz, there’s one political figure who was at the heart of both tremendously disastrous immigration reform bills of the last 50 years — a co-sponsor of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 and a major backer of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986.
So it seems only logical that whatever bill Ted Kennedy backs, it’s probably the worst one.
J.
Commentary Magazine is a Jewish magazine?!
Then why is it riddled with genocidal racists who advocate war crimes?
That’s not a ‘talking point,’ that came from actually reading the website and reading what it’s editors have said.
Commentary Magazine writers really do write like a bunch of Stormfront writers.
Though it is telling that you’d make the anti-Semitic, racist connection between my comments and Arabs.
Why do you hate Semites, Jay Tea?
The Immigration Reform and Control Act was SIGNED BY REPUBLICAN RONALD REAGAN.
Republican Ronald Reagan gave amnesty to millions of undocumented immigrants.
But right wingers sure don’t let the facts interfere with their fictions.
This is funny:
Black’s Law Dictionary literally defines AMNESTY with: “the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act provided amnesty for undocumented aliens already present in the country”.
REPUBLICAN RONALD REAGAN SIGNED THE LEGISLATION THAT LITERALLY DEFINES “AMNESTY.”
That’s some serious News Reference.
lol
Oh, News, just fuck off.
The biggest promoters of the “Jews are acting just like Nazis” are the anti-Israeli terrorists and terrorist nations. The Palestinians are routinely trying to appropriate the language, history, and experiences of the Jews to push their “victim” status. There are dozens of web sites documenting it — just for one example, look at what’s happened to the Temple Mount (the holiest site in the world for Jews) over the last 40 years.
And you’re using Gleen (king of the sock puppets) as your source? Good lord… well, I guess it’s something that he’s using his own name, and not making up new names and identities to plug himself and attack his critics.
J.
CSS, do you have some sort of learning disability or did I just not explain myself clearly?
You, that is you CSS, back in March, claimed that was a racist because I made a comment somewhere about people being worried because of minorities moving into their neighborhood. You made that comment here:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/03/03/barack-obama-main-street-president/#comment-140164
My very next comment to you was “What?” and then saying I have never talked about that subject. I have since asked you twice to show me where I have ever said anything like that.
I’m going to type the real slowly for you.
When have I ever said the comment you claimed I have said.
This is what makes me wonder if you have some sort of learning problem or retardation. I knew you made the claim. I have no idea why you made the claim though since I have not written what you said I did. I’ve provided you the link where you called me a racist. Now back it up. Show where I actually wrote what you claimed I did.
I honestly have no idea what “gleen” is.
“Black’s Law Dictionary” is Thomson/West publication.
?
Was originally going to put this w/ my response to CSS, but I didn’t want to confuse CSS by talking about two topics in one post.
But it’s not just the cost of the doctor’s visit itself. Taking yourself, or your child, is lost wages at work. There might also be childcare expenses involved for other children in the household. Sure, you could go ahead and require all employers to offer paid sick leave for parents and their children, but that just makes it less likely that employers will want to hire people with children. This in turn increases the number of people who need the government to meet their basic needs. And we’ll even ignore the possible costs of behavior that comes from “free” healthcare and guaranteed paid time off.
This might come as a shock to some (I know Quaker in the Basement {I think is was him} was quite surprised to find that I was in favor of Mexican trucks on US roads as part of NAFTA) but I think we need to have a very open and welcoming immigration policy. But sweet merciful jeebus, people entering this country need to be doing so legally. I’m sorry, but healthcare for illegal immigrants, and driver’s licenses, and all the benefits of legal residence really should be reserved for those residing here legally. Honestly, it sucks that there are people who prey on illegal immigrants and they fear coming forward because of their status (I live in Phoenix, I’m very aware of the crimes committed against illegal aliens), but the solution to that problem isn’t to just ignore their law-breaking any more than the solution to violence against drug-dealers is to ignore their crime (For the record I’m for drug legalization, but this is the best example I could think of).
Yes it is, and I wish more employers who knowingly hire (or look the other way to ID theft) illegal immigrants were facing jail time and serious fines. However there is no reason why you can’t throw the employer in jail while also sending the illegal immigrant back home. And none of that requires granting them many of the benefits of legal residence.
I think he means Glen Greenwald. Another blogger busted Greenwald using a sock puppet in his own comments.
SFC B, we have very different understandings of national healthcare.
I look at industrialized countries like Japan and Germany and see their nationalized healthcare plans as national ASSETS that STRENGTHENED those nations.
Ironically, those countries national healthcare plans also reduce the total GDP spent on healthcare compared to the massive amount of GDP spent on healthcare in the US.
National healthcare reduces healthcare costs and provides better overall outcomes.
As for “healthcare for illegal immigrants,” I can certainly understand why that’s offensive.
But if an undocumented immigrant without healthcare in Phoenix thought they had a case of the swine flu would you rather them feel comfortable going to see a healthcare professional for “free” or rather them hide in the shadows, but still contagious?
We’d both rather that the illegal employers were thrown in jail and solve the problem immediately, but that still doesn’t have enough political support to happen. In the meantime, I’d rather undocumented immigrants feel willing to show up at the hospital if they had some contagious disease.
As for Gleen being Glenn, thanks, I didn’t catch that. I don’t know anything about Glenn playing at sock puppets, is there an impartial link to support that?
But speaking of Glenn and drug decriminalization he did a fascinating report for CATO discussing Portugal’s drug decriminalization and it’s success in reducing drug problems.
Whatever might be said against Greenwald, he’s been uncompromising in his attacks on Obama’s deference to Bush’s lawlessness.
The types of “law-breaking” that I feel need to be prosecuted are Bush’s unlawful surveillance, torture war crimes, and even Bush’s corporate giveaways.
Those are far more serious “crimes” than any undocumented immigrant looking for a job and willing to work.
Clearly a lot of people disagree.
Dennis: “You’re a liar, Strowbridge. And you have a horrible case of white guilt that you assuage by running around calling everyone you disagree with a racist.”
CSS’s Translation: ‘There is no racism, only white guilt.’
No, it isn’t one or the other. One can say “This person’s attitude is a result of their white guilt” without in any way saying racism doesn’t exist; it isn’t a mutually exclusive situation, although I can see why you’d want to declare it so.
Me: “It’s amazing how so many people here call you racist. Yet you are completely innocent of the charge, right? It must be tough being persecuted like that.”
Dennis the Bigot: “The only thing that’s amazing is that no one making the claim, and nearly everyone here who doesn’t share your political views has been charged with it, is able to cite even one example.”
Yes we have. Your little anti-Semitic outburst is a perfect example.
Of course when we bring that up, you say, ‘Give a second example.’
SFC B: “You, that is you CSS, back in March, claimed that was a racist because I made a comment somewhere about people being worried because of minorities moving into their neighborhood. You made that comment here:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/03/03/barack-obama-main-street-president/#comment-140164”
Two points…
1.) Damn. I thought it was in the same thread. It does narrow the search, on the other hand. (Found it.)
2.) Good link though. That’s the thread where you proved you were homophobic.
…
Well fuck me. It was Amused Observer, not you. I apologize.
oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/why-there-are-so-few-minority-conservatives-part-176/
I’ll stop calling you racist and just call you homophobic instead.
Dennis: “You’re a liar, Strowbridge. And you have a horrible case of white guilt that you assuage by running around calling everyone you disagree with a racist.”
CSS’s Translation: ‘There is no racism, only white guilt.’
Sean D. Martin: “No, it isn’t one or the other. One can say ‘This person’s attitude is a result of their white guilt’ without in any way saying racism doesn’t exist; it isn’t a mutually exclusive situation, although I can see why you’d want to declare it so.”
Context. You have to look at the context.
Dennis refuses to admit Rush Limbaugh is racist, going so far as to say a respected magazines are making up quotes about him.
You can’t do that either because I’ve reformed. http://www.oliverwillis.com/2009/03/11/racist-texas-shakedown/#comment-142288
MuffinMichael Over There helped me to see the error of my ways and now I totally love Teh Gayness. I’ve got like three Gwen Stefani songs on my Most Played list now! I even unblocked Bravo! from my cable box where it was previously blocked so I didn’t accidently scroll through it while watching TV because I was so very, very homophobic and I didn’t want to take a chance that any of the cable TV Teh Gayness might rub off on me.I guess I could see how you’d have missed my reformation, I mean, it was in the same post where, for the second time, I said you were saying I was a racist for something I never said. You did seem to have some sort of selective blindness when it came to things like that.
It doesn’t seem very progressive of you insist on calling me a homophobe after my very honest and real epiphany and how I’ve changed my life since then. That unwelcoming attitude doesn’t really encourge others to make the same choice. Although if it will help you to calm down and maybe stop being so angry all the time, go ahead and call me a homophobe.
CSS: Context. You have to look at the context.
???
The statement about you and your mis-translation of it were pretty straightforward. His view of Limbaugh doesn’t really change that.