Jim Carrey’s Public Health Crisis
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This nonsense at Huffpo from Jim Carrey attacking vaccines is the height of celebrities masquerading as experts. Usually its for harmless things, but in this case Carrey’s advocacy (along with Jenny McCarthy) will likely lead to children getting sick and possibly dying.
This attitude caused a measles outbreak in San Diego and is basically child abuse.
Vaccinate your children. A lot of scientists worked hard on these medicines and as a result our generation is resistant to many ailments that shortened the lives of past generations. This stuff is so irresponsible.
62 Responses to “Jim Carrey’s Public Health Crisis”
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Vaccinephobia is another great gift from Alex Jones
A few years ago, I heard Daniel Schorr speaking about Jonas Salk. Schorr had been at a college graduation at which Salk had received an honorary degree. A student turned to Schorr and said, “So, who is this Jonas Salk.” Schorr told the student, “He cured polio,” and the student asked, “What’s polio?”
The funny thing about curing diseases is that society simply forgets about the diseases. Polio is history – these students might have heard about it in history class, but they barely remember it. Their grandparents knew all about polio, because they had to.
Yeah really, what a depressingly stupid thing for people to get behind. No amount of logic is too minimal when it comes to peoples’ children!
Another recent story here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1170191/London-suffering-shocking-rise-rare-Dickensian-diseases.html
And now, thanks to asshats like these, polio is poised to make a comeback in our lifetime.
Way to go.
“The funny thing about curing diseases is that society simply forgets about the diseases.”
It’s like the avoidance learning problem. You can’t really train a rat to hit a lever to prevent shock, for example. Sure, they’ll do it a few times, but then, when they don’t get shocked, they “forget” that they need to hit the bar to not get shocked… so they stop hitting the bar, and then they get shocked again because of it.
The last time I saw Jim Carrey talking out of his ass, it was in “Ace Ventura” and way more becoming.
Thank goodness these morons didn’t keep us from eradicating smallpox, we really don’t need that one coming back. Polio, whooping cough, rubella, even chicken pox should and could all be eradicated, but instead we’ve got morons listening to bigger morons and risking not just their health, but everyone else’s.
I understand the need to feel there’s a “villain” when you have a sick child, but these people are stupid and dangerous. They don’t have any data to back up their claims (the one paper purporting to find a connection was a complete fraud), but they can still get people to listen to their drivel.
I thought Jenny McCarthy “cured” her kid of autism, so what’s the problem?
If we told people that MTV/VH1 caused autism, you think that would make a difference?
I think there’s a correlation. It certainly increases the chances of catching st00pid.
You know what they call alternative medicine that’s been proven to work? Medicine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_htqDCP-s
Part of it is that vaccines are “unnatural.” They use chemicals and whatnot, and they’re not “organic.” They upset the delicate chemical balance of our bodies, polluting us and throwing off the natural balance. It’s ties in with the whole New Age, save the Earth, fight pollution kick.
Not entirely, of course, but it’s a strong element of it.
J.
OW: This nonsense at Huffpo from Jim Carrey attacking vaccines is the height of celebrities masquerading as experts. … This attitude caused a measles outbreak in San Diego and is basically child abuse.
Once again, OW, you’re distorting things to support the view you have. I don’t see him putting himself forward as an expert. He isn’t claiming he has particular knowledge or knows better than anyone else.
He isn’t saying vaccines are all bad and should never be used. He’s pointing out that there have been conflicting pronouncements about the safety of vaccines, that we immunize our kids more than we do our pets and more than other countries do, that independent studies of all that we put into our children haven’t been done.
(Emphasis added to highlight some points.)
It actually seems a balanced and reasonable request: Vaccines have their benefits but also appear to have a downside. Let’s actually do unbiased studies to get the facts.
Surely those scientist who worked so hard on these medicines wouldn’t object to unbiased scientific research.
Ok, Sean, have any evidence that vaccines cause autism? It’s really a rhetorical question, because there isn’t any. There was one preliminary study, which turned out to be entirely false (reanalysis of the same data demonstrated no correlation between vaccines and autism, I believe the scientist admitted to fraud). The whole “drug companies don’t want the truth about vaccines to get out” canard is completely bogus, there’s no profit and great risk in vaccines (although they’re trying to find some in HPV).
Autism is a terrible disease, but it’s not a “vaccine disease”.
Wow Sean Martin – finally a voice of reason…amazing that the rest of you finally found a common ground with Jay – on getting hysterical in defense of big pharma….Oliver – disappointed in you – making this a black and white straw man choice between “unlimited vaccination without oversight or kill science and we all die of disease”…Really? because I have yet to meet anyone who advocates NOT vaccinating children (except anti science Xtian ‘scientist’ of course)…No, the issue is regulation and transparency with gigantic pharmaceuticals who – let’s be honest – have a terrible track record of putting profits before safety. Replacing cheap Mercury with Aluminum as a preservative? Way to go!!!! And then cushion it will the usual astroturf studies……NO – we should all be demanding real unbiased research into the safest way possible to inoculate infants…..not letting anonymous Congressmen slide in provisions in the dead of night releasing companies from legal rammifications………
I’ve only heard a little bit about this issue and I have to say that what Carrey is saying doesn’t seem New Age or any other kind of nonsense.
Nor is challenging the science, where did you get that idea Oliver? What he’s saying (and we’ve seen this time and time again from medical corporations) is that they’re being over-used and that sounds like a reasonable warning.
They have a product, they have a marketing and sales department that want to sell more. How do they sell more? They create more demand when the natural demand has plateaued.
And I can’t help but think that yeah, too many vaccines, that is toxins and viruses could very well put a stress on a young body and warp it in some way.
Oliver I join you in your trust of science what I don’t trust are the people who make money off of it. We know what greed can do we’ve seen what it can do and this could very well be another example of it rotting the system.
Nothing wrong with checking this out. There are legitimate concerns. My baby got all the vaccines like most babies, and no problems, but I agree completely that we cannot trust the pharmaceutical industry. Commercials day and night, reps always pressuring doctors, and everywhere I look there is another kid in my family or a friend’s family that has been put on psycho meds or allergy meds or breathing treatments. It’s insane. When my baby was 6 months old, chest congestion set in for a a few weeks, but I could tell she was getting better. Wife got nervous, had us go to a different doctor. This doc prescribed breathing treatments, antibiotics, allergy meds, and a cough/congestion combo drug. After one visit. With no culture sample. We filled the prescrip for the cough/congestion syrup to help loosen things up and that was it. The congestion was gone within a week. Just one story out of so many, but it’s an example of how we are being overprescribed and basically being fleeced by the pharmaceutical industry, and it isn’t unreasonable to imagine folks resisting vaccines or wanting independent studies.
Oh don’t even try to play the “appeal-to-reason” logical fallacy card Sean, it’s overplayed and complete garbage. You want to bring up the Polling girl? Fine, but don’t forget to include the fact she also developed abnormal muscle metabolism and seizures, neither of which are symptoms of autism.
That’s just one example: would prefer we continue to deconstruct your BS arguments? Because we can, all day.
Crusty Dem: Ok, Sean, have any evidence that vaccines cause autism?
Please point out anywhere that I said it did. I didn’t express an opinion at all on the efficacy of vaccines.
I was responding to Oliver’s claim the Carrey put himself forward as an expert and his implication that Carrey has the attitude that leads a measles outbreak.
OW: This attitude caused a measles outbreak
Carrey: We have never argued that people shouldn’t be immunized for the most serious threats including measles
To show you how it’s done, I’ll comment on something you actually did say: “there’s no profit and great risk in vaccines”.
I’d be interested in seeing your support for that. I find it very difficult to believe a pharmaceutical company would be involved in a business that has “no profit and great risk”. The statement seems suspect on its face and I’d be interested in seeing how you back it up.
Two thoughts: Pharmaceutical companies make money from vaccines. Children should be vaccinated to stop the spread of disease. He may not say it all in this piece but Carrey and McCarthy are causing harm with their nonsense scaremongering.
Here’s another good one, which takes on a lot of the supportive talking points: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2009/04/i_really_wish_this_were_an_april_fools_d.php
OW: He may not say it all in this piece but…
Ah, my mistake. I took “This nonsense at Huffpo ” to mean you were, y’know, referring to the content of the article you actually spoke of and linked to.
OW, challenging orthodoxy is not fearmongering. There is nothing wrong, and everything right about the medical community questioning the potential harm in over-vaccinating.
If other western countries truly perform a fraction of the vaccinations that we do, we should at least compare the disease growth rates and treatment efficacy of these nations.
Screw Jim Carrey and Jenny McCarthy. The vaccine “science” that they are pushing does not exist as science and has been proven not only unsound but probably fraudulent. I have two preschool children with autism and it thoroughly chaps my ass that real autism research has to fight against this sort of new-age celebrity trend of the week business.
Screw Robert Kennedy too, for lending his family name and connections to this anti-scientific buncombe. I don’t agree often with Jay Tea here but what Jay Tea said.
I remember when the battlecry was ‘autism is mercury poisoning! Don’t inject our babies with mercury!’ Then the manufacturers took the thimerosol (mercury-based preservative) out of the vaccines – back in 1999, IIRC.
Guess what? Kids kept being diagnosed autistic. Now the cry is ‘don’t give them ALL the vaccinations at once!’ If/when the pediatricians implement that, well, I can see the next chapter already. If you came up with a longitudinal study that Christian Scientist parents (who typically do NOT get their kids vaccinated) have kids diagnosed with autism at a statistically lower rate than non-C.S. parents, well, let us know.
As for overmedicating children – my two (adopted) sons have multiple medical and psychiatric diagnoses. You can have their Strattera, Adderall, thyroid supplements, anti-asthma meds, allergy treatments, etc., when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.
They upset the delicate chemical balance of our bodies, polluting us and throwing off the natural balance.
So does NutraSweet, but no one’s pushing to yank that off the shelves, are they?
Robert: You can have their Strattera, Adderall, thyroid supplements, anti-asthma meds, allergy treatments, etc., when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.
Wouldn’t want to try. And so far as I’ve seen, nobody has advocated that vaccines or any medications be outlawed or that anyone who wants to use them not be allowed to.
J.G.Thayer: “It’s ties in with the whole New Age, save the Earth, fight pollution kick.”
And you accuse me of stretching when I tie racist Republicans with the Southern Strategy.
You are such a fucking hypocrite.
Sean, there’s no “there” there, so any type of “we should be concerned” is completely fabricated. Are you too dense to see the pointless scaremongering? You’re doing it yourself with “He’s pointing out that there have been conflicting pronouncements about the safety of vaccines” and “we immunize our kids more than we do our pets”. This first statement is incorrect, while the last statement is, of course, true; we really, really work to avoid our children dying of preventable disease.
Dozens of studies have examined epidemiological data looking for a correlation between any vaccine or set of vaccines and autism, the only one to ever find a correlation was the first, and it was discovered to be fraud. Carrey parses this w/bullshit like “no one without a vested interest in the profitability of vaccines has studied all 36 of them in depth“, well, no, no single non-profit entity has studied them all individually, but they’ve been studied thoroughly and no danger has been found. Vaccine fearmongers love to tout the mercury/thimerosol link, but if you check the amount in those few vaccines which ever contained mercury (I don’t believe any of which are currently given to children in the US), it’s about 1% of a piece of orange roughy.
As far as “vaccine profits”, to say there’s “no money” in vaccines was obviously hyperbole on my part, but major drug companies have long avoided the field, the risk/reward is completely skewed (despite vaccines arguably having done far more towards improving the human condition than drugs), due to lawsuits (even those won are expensive) and the small number of doses of vaccine given to each patient. That’s changing, slowly, as laws limit their risk; Merck is proceeding with Gardasil, others may follow, but it’s one of the least profitable sections of the pharmaceutical industry (a new vaccine including R&D is unlikely to ever make significant profit, but even then, we’re talking about 1/1000th a “Viagra”, in terms of profit). Vaccine research programs in the Pharmaceutical industry has long existed more for PR than for progress.
Crusty: You’re doing it yourself with “He’s pointing out that there have been conflicting pronouncements about the safety of vaccines” and “we immunize our kids more than we do our pets”. This first statement is incorrect, while the last statement is, of course, true; we really, really work to avoid our children dying of preventable disease.
Yuor attacking me again for a view I never expressed. Regarding the first statement, I didn’t make any such statement. I was quoting Carrey, not making it myself. Since he seemed more familiar with the issue thank I (I don’t recognize the case names he gave, for example) I had no basis on which to claim it not true. Although, again, I was commenting on OW’s characterization of Carrey as a self-declared expert and one who shared a particular attitude, and not presenting an opinion on whether Carrey is right or wrong.
Regarding the second statement, your comment misses the point that was made. Nobody suggested we don’t really work hard to protect kids from disease.
As for the rest, as to whether enough studies have been done or not, Carrey said no, you said yes and I’m not in a position to agree or dispute either, really. (Although it does seem to me that you haven’t actually contradicted each other. You say dozens of studies have been done without noting who by. He said sufficient studies haven’t been done by folks without a vested interest.)
For myself, I’d tend to err on the side of conventional wisdom and have kids in my charge vaccinated, but not without discussing any concerns with the doctor and getting what I felt to be reasonable, convincing answers.
Glad to see you adding your voice to this false debate. Jim Carey and Jenny McCarty, along with David Kirby and RFKjr are misrepresenting (to put it as kindly as possible) science in order to terrorize parents. Moreover, they are cut from the same cloth as those who so enjoyed mocking the “reality based community” during the preceding administration. The anti-vaccine loons are in the same class as the global warming deniers, the creationists and the AIDS conspiracy theorists.
Yuor attacking me again for a view I never expressed. Regarding the first statement, I didn’t make any such statement. I was quoting Carrey, not making it myself
You’re giving Carrey credibility he has not earned, you said:
He’s pointing out that there have been conflicting pronouncements about the safety of vaccines.
He is doing no such thing. That would require him to have a point based in fact, ie., citing a relevant epidemiological study, rather than fearmongering based on mercury and aluminum and general ignorance. I wouldn’t say I’m an expert like Carrey; my PhD in Neuroscience doesn’t get me on Larry King, or the Today Show, or the front pages at Huff Post. But while they have good intentions, I take great exception to the whole pile of verifiable bullshit being supplied by the Carrey/McCarthy; having a child with autism makes you an expert on the causes of the disease about as much as being hit by a car makes you an expert on the financial problems at GM.
They upset the delicate chemical balance of our bodies, polluting us and throwing off the natural balance.
So does NutraSweet, but no one’s pushing to yank that off the shelves, are they?
They should, that shit is bad for you.
Actually in a way both sides of this argument may be right. I am positive the vaccines are safe. Unfortunately there is always that one person in a 1,000 who suffers a side effect. And even more unfortunately, there are occasional quality and purity problems in drug manufacturing.
“He’s pointing out that there have been conflicting pronouncements about the safety of vaccines.”
There have also been conflicting pronouncements about
the etiology of aIDS. Christine Maggiore, for example,
was adamant that HIV does not cause AIDS. You could ask
her about her opinion on vaccines, but alas, she’s dead.
I’ll take my own M.D.’s advice on how to deal with _my_
HIV infection, and, oddly enough, I’ve been doing much
better on the medications he’s prescribed.
There ARE people arguing that children should not
be vaccinated, people who use the same arguments
Carrey and McCarthy are using. My father taught me
as a child about the difference between ‘nonsense’ and
‘dangerous nonsense’. The former can be a source of
amusement, both for those who believe in it and those
who like to point and laugh. The latter is a threat,
and must be treated as such.
I know people with unvaccinated school-age children. My attitude is, if you’re really concerned about autism (the main claim here against vaccination), then fine, wait awhile, but for everyone’s sake, vaccinate ‘em when they’re four or five and clearly not autistic.
Sorry if this ends up being a double post but last night I tried to post this link to David Gorski beating down Carrey and McCarthy:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=445
Don’t let paranoia over big pharma cloud the fact that they’re a couple of ignorant frauds.
After reading the comments on the HuffPo site, I am now convinced that OW is obviously a paid shill for Big Pharma. And so is anyone else who doesn’t believe that vaccines are obviously unsafe in any dose and Big Pharma just wants to kill our kids and harvest their organs for their alien overlords. A celebrity once said it, it must be true.
Crusty Dem: You’re giving Carrey credibility he has not earned, you said:
He’s pointing out that there have been conflicting pronouncements about the safety of vaccines.
He is doing no such thing.
Really? Did you actually read the article OW linked to?
As for my “giving Carrey credibility he hasn’t earned” I don’t believe I’ve done that. My point was, and has been, that Oliver’s original post claimed Carrey is pretending to be an expert and, after actually reading the article, I didn’t see anywhere where he’d done that. I’ve said Carrey isn’t an expert. And thereby, apparently, given him credibility. Huh?
Tompaul: the reason for infant vaccination against (for example) rotavirus is that it is the virus poses a serious health risk for infants. The reason for inoculating the 12-24 month set against measles is that the virus poses a serious health risk to infants. The reason for inoculating the 12-24 month set against rubella is that the virus poses a serious health risk, not to the infant, but to fetuses whose mothers do not have full immunity.
Sean D. Martin: Carrey asserted as fact a number of statements that are flat-out lies (the 36 vaccines, his smearing of Paul Offit’s accomplishments, and the “anti-freeze in vaccine” for three).
He is just a propagandist for the Society for Promotion of Vaccine-Preventable Disease.
If you would like to send a message to Mr. Carrey:
Tell Jim Carrey that hw is wrong about vaccines and autism from Autism.Change.Org:
The suggested text of the letter. Feel free to compose your own message and post it at the Change.org link, above:
Dear Mr. Carrey,
I have read your recent article in The Huffington Post, “The Judgment on Vaccines Is In???” in which you assert that “We don’t know enough to announce that all vaccines are safe” and that further research about a possible vaccine-autism link is necessary. Further research has and is being done, and the scientific evidence refuting this hypothetical link is steadily accruing. Nonetheless, this issue continues to hold the attention of the public and of parents who have become fearful of vaccinating their young children.
It is unfortunate that, due to your celebrity, many people will listen to your statements about vaccines and even decide not to have their children receive the vaccines that are important for their health. Please reconsider your statements about vaccines and autism and please rather direct your energies to supporting services and education for individuals on the autism spectrum.
You’re starting with a false premise Sean. Ignoring the issue of Polling’s additional non-autistic symptoms and the likelihood she in fact didn’t have autism to begin with simply for the sake of argument, the court absolutely did not rule that autism was linked to vaccines. It did leave open the possibility that vaccines can cause medical complications, but in no way did it show a link.
The fact that the article you link to makes that single, glaring, “mistake” throws the entire article’s credibility out the window. The vaccine court cases were designed, largely by the antivax crowd, to showcase the 3 best cases they had and were the ones they felt most strongly proved their point. It backfired and they have been lying about the outcome ever since.
Dustin: You’re starting with a false premise Sean.
Jesus, people. The only premise I’m starting from is that OW distorted what Carey was saying. That, in the article OW linked to Carrey doesn’t declare himself an expert and doesn’t express the attitude that OW claims caused a measles outbreak in San Diego.
I get folks are sensitive on this topic but are you so anxious to press your agenda that you need to distort and misrepresent things? Isn’t that what you’re complaining that Carrey is doing?
Sean, you’re being deliberately obtuse (I think), of course Carrey is putting himself up as an expert. Anyone putting out articles and interviews like this and stating anything about the causes of the disease itself is putting themselves in that position, even if they claim to be ignorant. There’s a vacuum in the public’s knowledge of autism (which is common), and it’s being filled with his baseless claims and it’s dangerous. True, he’s not specifying specific vaccines to avoid, but just the “vaccines may be dangerous” claim is completely unsubstantiated by available data, and since vaccines save lives, it’s a terrible message to spread. I’m all for him advocating for autism, but he needs to STFU about his opinions of the cause until there’s some data to back it up. Without that, he has all the credibility of Tom Cruise taking on mental health professionals…
Crusty Dem : even if they claim to be ignorant.
Ah, so it doesn’t matter what someone says, only what you say they are doing. Suddenly many of the comments in this thread start to make sense.
Crusty Dem: “…even if they claim to be ignorant.”
Sean D. Martin: “Ah, so it doesn’t matter what someone says, only what you say they are doing. Suddenly many of the comments in this thread start to make sense.”
If someone says, ‘I’m not an expert, but here’s what you should be doing…’ they are portraying themselves as an expert.
It’s a matter of looking at what they are doing and not just at what they are saying.
Wow Sean, you really are that obtuse.
As CS says, when you’re telling people what to do and think, you’re portraying yourself as an expert. It’s authority by celebrity, as Oliver said in the first place, and it doesn’t matter whether it’s accompanied by modesty or not. He has the option to refer to someone who is an expert, but he’s not doing that, is he?
CSS: If someone says, ‘I’m not an expert, but here’s what you should be doing…’ they are portraying themselves as an expert.
I disagree. Someone can give an opinion and make no claim, express or implied, that they are an expert. You, for example, have often commented on economic matters to the point of saying what should and should not be done. Am I to take it then that you then are an expert?
Crusty: As CS says, when you’re telling people what to do and think, you’re portraying yourself as an expert.
By that standard nearly everyone who comments here is an expert on US History, world politics, group psychology, economics, medicine, constitutional law, media, football, etc. etc. etc.
He has the option to refer to someone who is an expert, but he’s not doing that, is he?
Well, let’s see.
I seem to be the only one who is actually reading what Carey actually wrote in the article OW referenced.
I seem to be the only one who is actually reading what Carey actually wrote in the article OW referenced.
You’ve read it, but you don’t seem to understand it (see following).
He has the option to refer to someone who is an expert, but he’s not doing that, is he?
Well, let’s see. (quote from 2000 panel redacted)
This is not citing an expert, this is utilizing the fear and ignorance of 9 years ago to make bogus claims that a threat exists today. Any idea why the only report he’s quoting is a panel from 2000? I made the point earlier, but back then there was only one study available, it connected vaccines and autism, and it was a complete fraud! At the time, panels were convened (like the one Carrey is quoting, note that it’s a panel, not a research paper/epidemiological study), warnings were issued, and much research money was given to further study links between vaccines and autism. None were found and the original study was retracted after reanalysis of the original data found no vaccine/autism link. Carrey is cherry-picking quotes from that time (when, unlike today, there was no data demonstrating the complete absence of a vaccine/autism link), while ignoring the reams of data since then.
Someone can give an opinion and make no claim, express or implied, that they are an expert.
By that standard nearly everyone who comments here is an expert on US History, world politics, group psychology, economics, medicine, constitutional law, media, football, etc. etc. etc.
Nice distraction, but last I saw, no one here, including Oliver or our regular commenter from Dysentery magazine has 1/1000000th the soap box that Jim Carrey has. When you are a celebrity and you utilize your power to make the rounds on TV and print to decry vaccines as dangerous (generally vaguely), citing a variety of incorrect and irrelevant “facts”, you are implying that you are an expert. Carrey also utilizes the “parent of autistic child” to further enhance his status. FWIW, I’d also be irate at any parent of an autistic child getting on TV/print to make similar bogus claims.
Sean, how is it possible to be for something while baselessly attacking it? If I said “American Jews have too much power and they need to be better monitored”, that would clearly make me an anti-Semite. No need to come right out and confess my bias – it would be pretty obvious. But according to you all would be forgiven if I just preface my racist blather with “As much as I value Jews, there are reasons to be concerned about their disastrous impact.”
When Carrey tells us vaccines contain anti-freeze (which they don’t), he is anti-vaccine. When he tells us that the US Federal Court of Claims determined vaccines caused Hannah Poling’s autism (not true), he is anti-vaccine. When he repeats demonstrably false slanders against Dr. Offit, he is anti-vaccine. When he assumes an autism epidemic (unlikely), and attributes said epidemic to vaccines (no evidence for that either), he is anti-vaccine.
The only “controversy” regarding vaccines and autism exists on fringe websites and the Huffington Post. Please don’t tell me Arianna has bought into this nonsense. I thought it was the Republicans who subvert science for ideological ends.
AutismNewsBeat – who are you and what are you talking about? Wrong site?
“By that standard nearly everyone who comments here is an expert on US History, world politics, group psychology, economics, medicine, constitutional law, media, football, etc. etc. etc.”
No, but a lot of people here pretend to be.
Jim Carrey choose to stand up and put his voice behind a claim in order to give it weight. He acted like he was an expert, even if he claims he is not.
Actions matter more than words.
I think that’s something we can all agree on.
AutismNewsBeat: Sean, how is it possible to be for something while baselessly attacking it? …
When Carrey tells us vaccines contain anti-freeze (which they don’t), he is anti-vaccine. [and etc.]
OK, I’m honestly confused by your comments. What did I say that you interpreted to mean I was claiming someone is for something while they attack it?
Carrey does state in the article that he isn’t opposed to vaccines. “We have never argued that people shouldn’t be immunized for the most serious threats including measles and polio”. (Which actually supports the only point that I originally made and have been trying to keep the focus on: OW misrepresented Carrey when he said he (Carrey) had the “attitude [which] caused a measles outbreak in San Diego”.)
My point, which isn’t all that obtuse, is that Carrey pays easy lips service to vaccines even as he mischaracterizes and demonizes them. His spoken support for vaccines rings hollow when repeatedly lies about their ingredients, and baselessly slanders vaccine researchers.
No Crusty, I’m in the right place. Carrey is most decidedly anti-vaccine, in the same way my hypothetical bigot is anti-Semitic. Weak praise is no antidote for ignorant fear mongering.
Weak praise is no antidote for ignorant fear mongering.
So this would be the “I have a black friend” defense, you think?
Bingo. Glad somebody understands my point.
Ok, I get it ANB, I was completely thrown by your first paragraph. Eric, you’ve pretty well nailed it.
My rebuttal to Sean is very simple, it’s that he clearly doesn’t understand anything that Carrey has said prior to this article. As I’ve said about 5 times in this thread, the sum total of the scientific data the anti-vaccine community has to base their near-decade crusade on has been proven fraudulent. It was a Lancet article claiming autism caused by the MMR vaccine; and the activity of the anti-vaccine community led MMR rates to drop dramatically, to the point that outbreaks have popped up sporadically. Carrey and McCarthy have repeated singled out the MMR vaccine as the cause of McCarthy’s child’s autism. That last link is amusing, since it’s by the doctor whose fraud was demonstrated just months after the article was written.
Of course, MMR is the only vaccine available for measles, so when Carrey says “We have never argued that people shouldn’t be immunized for the most serious threats including measles and polio”, he is patently full of shit. And you’re giving him full benefit of the doubt because, while he is pointlessly scaremongering, in this article he isn’t scaremongering against a specific vaccine. I’d still like to know which mythical vaccine Carrey thinks is unnecessary, because I look at the chart and can’t find one that won’t save a lot of lives.
Point is, in Oliver’s example above, he is exactly right and you are very nearly perfectly wrong.. But I’ll give you points for being pedantic (What? We’re arguing on a blog comment thread, which pretty much defines pedantic..).
Carrey told a reporter in Washington, DC last June that he thought the tetanus vaccine wasn’t necessary. The remark was in response to a question by Arthur Allen of the Washington Independent. It was obvious Carrey had given little thought to his answer.
Crusty: My rebuttal to Sean is very simple, it’s that he clearly doesn’t understand anything that Carrey has said prior to this article.
My rebuttal to Crusty is very simple: I never said I’d seen anything by Carrey prior to this article. My point was and remains, based on the article (the only thing Oliver refers to or links to) Oliver’s characterization of Carrey’s comments is a misrepresentation.
“Ah, my mistake. I took “This nonsense at Huffpo ” to mean you were, y’know, referring to the content of the article you actually spoke of and linked to.”
“The only premise I’m starting from is that OW distorted what Carey was saying. That, in the article OW linked to Carrey doesn’t declare himself an expert and doesn’t express the attitude that OW claims caused a measles outbreak in San Diego.”
Despite that, folks have attributed to me several things and positions I have not said/taken. Again, I get that this is a very sensitive topic for people (And that some are so overly sensitive to it that they interpret the least sign of someone not fully agreeing with their view on every aspect of it as someone vociferously disagreeing with them.) but am nevertheless surprised at the reactions seen. Clearly nothing further to be served by continued attempts to have a conversation so I yield the field.
My point was and remains, based on the article (the only thing Oliver refers to or links to) Oliver’s characterization of Carrey’s comments is a misrepresentation.
“Ah, my mistake. I took “This nonsense at Huffpo ” to mean you were, y’know, referring to the content of the article you actually spoke of and linked to.”
Is there any content in the article that is actually substantial or informative? Do you think it’s not nonsense? I assume you’ll complain that you’re not defending Carrey, but you want to claim that Oliver is wrong nonsense, you need a reason. I hope we’ve thoroughly demonstrated that Carrey’s article is nothing more than fact-free nonsense and scaremongering. You’ve been hung up on Carrey’s claims of not being an expert (while he tells people what to do and think) and that his vaccine fearmongering couldn’t possibly have anything to do with outbreaks (while he’s the lead spokesman for a movement and has argued specifically against the vaccine that stops outbreaks like the one in San Diego Oliver refers to).
I can’t understand your complete inability to go from 1 to 2 to 3, other than plain stubbornness. And where you really offended me was not your criticism of Oliver, but your basic re-expression of Carrey’s lies:
It actually seems a balanced and reasonable request: Vaccines have their benefits but also appear to have a downside. Let’s actually do unbiased studies to get the facts. Surely those scientist who worked so hard on these medicines wouldn’t object to unbiased scientific research.
Except vaccines don’t have a scientifically proven downside, dozens (if not hundreds) of unbiased studies have found no significant ill effects from vaccines, and no scientist working on vaccines has objected to unbiased scientific research on the absence of a link between vaccines and autism. If he’s not acting as an “expert” why are you treating all of these lies as fact?
“Let’s actually do unbiased studies to get the facts.”
All studies have flaws, and biases come in different forms. The scientific method and peer review are best ways we know to control for and expose flaws and biases. When Carrey and other anti-vaxers call for “unbiased studies”, what they really mean are studies that support the anti-vaccine point of view.
Sean, apparently, doesn’t see that.
AutismNewsBeat: When Carrey and other anti-vaxers call for “unbiased studies”, what they really mean are studies that support the anti-vaccine point of view.
Sean, apparently, doesn’t see that.
Perhaps because Sean prefers not to claim to know more than he does, or claim someone says something that he hasn’t seen them actually say.
But, then,
Sean believes vaccines cause autism ([Crusty Dem]
Sean wants to take away your vaccines [Robert]
Sean says there has been conflicting evidence [Crusty]
Except that Sean’s never said any of those things.
But don’t also forget that
Sean is ignoring facts present in articles he’s never read [Dustin]
And Sean doesn’t understand things people have said (never mind that he’s never heard them before) [Crusty]
Seriously! Why can’t Sean see that nobody wants to talk about the point he actually tried to make when they can take him to task for things he never said and knows nothing about? I think we should attack Sean’s opinion of cricket next.
First off, referring to oneself in the third person so many times is a little disturbing.
Sean believes vaccines cause autism ([Crusty Dem]
Where did I say that? All I said you bought into Carrey’s nebulous, unsubstantiated “Vaccines may be bad” garbage.
Sean says there has been conflicting evidence [Crusty]
You repeated Carrey’s statements as fact. There is no conflicting evidence. If you have it, present it, I vehemently dispute those “facts”.
And Sean doesn’t understand things people have said (never mind that he’s never heard them before) [Crusty]
Fine, but after learning them, you keep repeating the same garbage. Ignorance is fine, repeated ignorance is a bad sign. Can you learn?
I also see that you have no response to the points I’ve actually made, and are unwilling to address my actual response to what you’ve said (look, I use italics for quotes and everything) but the notable point is:
If Carrey is not acting as an “expert” why are you treating all of his lies as fact?
My assertion is that you, like so many who know little about vaccines and autism, presume that he is an expert. Do you have a better explanation?
Sean, since I never said I was an expert on what you are thinking, you have no reason to object to my opinion of what you are thinking.
AutismNewsbeat: Sean, since I never said I was an expert on what you are thinking, you have no reason to object to my opinion of what you are thinking.
ROFL!