You Can’t Talk To Poo-Flinging Monkeys
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GayPatriot (according to much of the right, no such thing exists) sounds that old conservative woe-is-me song by noting:
One of the themes I have been addressing with great regularity almost since the moment I started blogging is how all too many on the left seek to insult and otherwise strive to discredit conservatives rather than engage them on the level of ideas.
If conservatives ever wanted to be serious about things, we might be able to have a serious adult conversation with them about things. Liberals tried that for a long time and all we got out of it was the media treating the crazed rantings of lunatics as the equivalent of scientists, doctors, and economists.
We’re dealing with a conglomeration of people who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old, that cutting taxes for super rich people will eventually trickle down to the rest of us – we just have to wait a few decades for it to really really kick in, and that of course now we’re being marched into Marxism by a secret black militant Muslim who was born in Kenya.
This is who we are dealing with now in America:
Only a fool would take that sort of nonsense seriously.
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
The Left went postal and started calling Bush a facist because
1. We thought we were being lied to on the march to the Iraq War
2. We thought we were being spied on by our own government illegally
3. We thought giving tax cuts to the richest Americans when we were in two wars were irresponsible.
And in the end we were all vindicated.
The Right went postal and started calling President Obama a facist because he gave 95% of Americans a tax cut.
Thats a major fundamental difference. And until the right starts actually talking about something other than birth certificates and Hitler youth, there won’t be any kind of reason to engage them in dialogue.
I’m not sure which is more enraging — the idea that they actually believe this horses**t they spout or that they don’t and dutifully repeat it anyway.
There you have it, folks — the Stalinist remnant of a once-great party.
And in the end we were all vindicated.
Actually, we were vindicated by #1 and 3 in the beginning. And #2 was pretty damn predictable. The bastards.
Oliver…..but tax cuts for the super-rich *do* trickle down! Don’tcha feel it?
ah….sorry….my bad. That ‘trickle-down’ was the ghost of ken Lay pissing on our backs….
I guess, then, in a way, it is trickling down, no? Just not as we expected, or wanted…..
look at these godtards http://drdino.com/ we can’t “engage them on the level of ideas”
Oliver, it’s even stupider than all the things you listed. We’re dealing with a conglomeration of people who believe that:
Chortle. Mighty full of yourselves, aren’t you?
[...] hat’s off to him. He did a swell job. A Mr. Oliver Willis accused me of sounding “that old conservative woe-is-me song” for pointing out that “all too many [but fortunately not all] on the left seek to [...]
So when you can’t explain how taking a $400 billion deficit (which liberals criticized) and ballooning it into a $2 trillion dollar deficit by paying off Il Douche’s cronies and special interests help the American people, you scoff and claim “We am mucher smart to explain it”.
Got it.
‘Chortle. Mighty full of yourselves, aren’t you?’
It’s called ‘truth.’
Clearly a word glaringly absent from the Right wing lexicon.
The problem is that when conservatives (people with functioning brains) stayed silent when cons (Freepers et al) did all the talking the cons became the voice and face of the movement. That same movement took control of the Republican party and morphed it into the rethugnacan party.
Now conservatives have (In the mind of cons) become moderates and republicans have become independents.
They, the cons, have no understanding reality in their race to insanity they have dragged the country, along with the slopped browed, drooling mouth breathers, racists, money worshiping freakazoids and the authoritarian right-wing fundies (AKA their “base”) are driving the train.
Your right OW you don’t try to teach a pig to sing. “It frustrates you and annoys the pig.”
To tell the truth I enjoy having conversations with conservatives. But the current crop of FOX watchers are too dishonest, jingoistic, unintelligent, racist, self possessed and crazy to even talk to. Just take a look at some of the drive bye turds the hit and run trolls on this very site.
Peace Be With You.
“The Right went postal and started calling President Obama a facist because he gave 95% of Americans a tax cut.”
Yes, exactly right. We are angry because Obama is cutting taxes. Oh, and because he’s black, you left that one out.
And Gaypatriot says the left is unwilling to honestly engage the political right — what on earth is he talking about?
Seriously, you guys are real big fans of the strawman tactic around here. Oliver Willis takes a serious question posed by a gay conservative and answers it by citing the fact that some people on the right are creationists and believe that Obama wasn’t born in the US to dismiss the entire 50+ million that voted for someone other than Obama. Really?
Maybe I should dismiss the left because some of you lot were so eager to equate Bush with Hitler. Makes about as much sense as what Oliver is saying.
If conservatives ever wanted to be serious about things, we might be able to have a serious adult conversation with them about things.
Will that be before or after you stop sniggering like schoolgirls over “teabagging?”
Liberals tried that for a long time and all we got out of it was the media treating the crazed rantings of lunatics as the equivalent of scientists, doctors, and economists.
As opposed to such responsible intellectuals as Al Gore, Cindy Sheehan, Paul Ehrlich, Nancy Pelosi, Ward Churchill, and the like?
We’re dealing with a conglomeration of people who believe that the earth is 6,000 years old
The percentage of people who believe the Bible that literally is very small, and just how relevant is that to the issues of the day?
that cutting taxes for super rich people will eventually trickle down to the rest of us – we just have to wait a few decades for it to really really kick in
Funny how the threshold for “super rich people” keeps slipping down further and further all the time… and let’s look at the tax burdens, shall we?
The top 1% of income earners earn 19% of the income, but pay 37% of the income tax.
The top ten percent pay 68% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earn 13% of the income, but pay 3% of the income taxes.
Is there a point where it’s fair for those paying the most to say “enough?” Is there a point where the champions of government accumulating money and power say “that’s enough, you don’t need to pay any more?”
we’re being marched into Marxism by a secret black militant Muslim who was born in Kenya.
Nobody like a match! Oliver’s piling all his straw men into one big pile! One stray spark and it’ll be an inferno!
This is who we are dealing with now in America:
Gee, that’s the kind of poster I’d expect to see Oliver holding, but he’s white. Must be Anderson Cooper or Keith Olbermann.
Only a fool would take that sort of nonsense seriously.
Absolutely. I dunno how you can take Cooper, Matthews, Olbermann, Maddow, or Media Masters seriously.
J.
Jay Tea–that was a lot of space you used to post, space that we can never get back . . . .
It’s like JT’s heart isn’t really in it anymore. He’s doing it by rote now.
I regularly post about the wackadoodle crowd at http://tragicalthing.blogspot.com. I’ll have a post later about GayPatriotWest/Dan Blatt’s response in a bit.
Notice that neither Colin nor Jay Tea actually comes up with a counter argument. Its always to the Pee Wee Herman “I know you are but what am I” defense. Utterly predictable weaksauce. So why were you protesting Colin? Tell us all why you took to the streets (well not you personally, I am sure you had better things to do, but the idiot fringe of your party is who I am referring to) to protest in full on old British Garb, with signs with depictions of President Obama as Hitler, Stalin or any other boogeyman you can think of. With signs calling for public hangings.
Now I ask you also Colin and Jay Tea, why no signs with Bush’s likeness on them as Chairman Mao or calling for Mitch McConnell to be hanged or even Eric Cantor and Boehner who all voted for TARP I? Why no effigies of Henry Paulson who came from on high with a three page document asking for 700 billion dollars? Why wasn’t the illegal wiretapping under FISA mentioned at all at the tea parties which is the biggest invasion of civil liberties in this country ever undertaken? Why no signs decrying the 10 billion a month we are spending over in Iraq? Why no signs asking for health care reform to bring down the deficit?
Now try to find a strawman in that…..Of course I doubt if we will get anything more than a “Hey look at the shiny object over there” response from the likes of you. But at least I tried.
Actually I have one last question. Classical conservatives are non interventionists when it comes to foreign policy because of the costs. So I want to know why the people at those tea bagging parties didn’t take the streets to call for President Bush’s impeachment after it was found without a shadow of a doubt that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and that they didn’t have weapons of mass destruction. That was of course after we had already lost thousands of lives of our troops and over a hundred billion and counting in tax payer money. Let me know when you can come up with an answer.
why no signs with Bush’s likeness on them as Chairman Mao or calling for Mitch McConnell to be hanged or even Eric Cantor and Boehner who all voted for TARP I? Why no effigies of Henry Paulson who came from on high with a three page document asking for 700 billion dollars?
Here’s one reason why: I’m looking FORWARD. I’m not overly interested in finding sacrificial victims to sate my need for vengeance; I’m more concerned by the people who think that the perfect antidote to the previous grotesque federal spending is to increase it exponentially.
Also, the TARP support was remarkably bipartisan. It was the opposition that was far more aligned to a single party.
Why wasn’t the illegal wiretapping under FISA mentioned at all at the tea parties which is the biggest invasion of civil liberties in this country ever undertaken?
Hmm… tough one. Perhaps because 1) that isn’t an immediate economic threat to us and generations to come, B) not everyone carries your particular obsessive fetish; and III) the “illegality” is still highly debatable? I’ll put most of my money on B — your little fetish isn’t exactly a “straw man” argument, but it definitely falls under the “hey, look over there!” category.
Why no signs decrying the 10 billion a month we are spending over in Iraq?
Well, here are two reasons: 1) Obama’s promised to end it, has even built his budget numbers around it, and we all KNOW he’d never break a promise; and B) that’s a rounding error compared to the Obama spending plans. (Well, the Pelosi-Reed spending plans that Obama’s willing to sign off on, but it’s his name that’ll be on the bottom line.)
Why no signs asking for health care reform to bring down the deficit?
I saw one. You wouldn’t have liked it. It was a P. J. O’Rourke quote: “If you think health care is expensive, wait until it’s free!”
Actually I have one last question. Classical conservatives are non interventionists when it comes to foreign policy because of the costs. So I want to know why the people at those tea bagging parties didn’t take the streets to call for President Bush’s impeachment after it was found without a shadow of a doubt that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and that they didn’t have weapons of mass destruction. That was of course after we had already lost thousands of lives of our troops and over a hundred billion and counting in tax payer money. Let me know when you can come up with an answer.
Obligatory cheap shot: if you’re going to ask a question, it’s helpful to stick a question mark in there somewhere. It’s kind of traditional.
Actual response: asked and answered repeatedly; you just don’t like the answer, so you keep pretending that you never heard it. It’s a variant of the Big Lie principle: if you keep asking the same questions, you don’t have to admit that they’ve been answered satisfactorily for most reasonable people. It’s a tactic made famous by the 9/11 Trooothers and the Ron Paul nuts.
Oh, and I can tell you’re serious when you talk about “teabaggers.” Is it difficult to see the screen around Anderson Cooper’s scrotum?
J.
“Oliver Willis takes a serious question posed by a gay conservative…”
You’re joking. You have to be joking. You think that was a serious question?
I think this is a good example of why no one does take you guys seriously.
I’m more concerned by the people who think that the perfect antidote to the previous grotesque federal spending is to increase it exponentially.
Jay Tea, if you want an argument about ideas you’re going to have to do a whole lot better than this.
Do you really think that the stimulus bill was written and passed as a solution to “government spending”?
That doesn’t even make any fucking sense. And yet, that’s what you wrote. But you want to talk about ideas?
You’ll have to speak up, fafaroo; I can’t hear you around Rachel Maddow’s scrotum in your mouth.
I actually attended a Tea Party, and nearly every single message being expressed boiled down to the same thing: “Government, stop spending so goddamned much money!”
Lower my taxes… so I can decide how to spend my money, and the government will have less to spend.
Cut pork and earmarks… stop spending so much money on wasteful projects.
We’re already seeing the results of the “stimulus” package, with banks and the automakers finding out that the price of those funds is the federal government exerting outright control over those institutions — witness Rattner’s plan last week of expediting the sale of Chrysler to Fiat by getting banks that accepted bailout money to write off billions in Chrysler debt. And those banks that want to give back bailout money? They’re meeting tremendous resistance — it’s almost as if the government doesn’t want to let them off the hook.
The only conclusion: the bailouts and whatnot are, in the end, about control.
And the idea that the government can manage things better than the private sector? The counterexamples are legion. The Postal Service. Amtrak. The House Bank.
The Constitution (give it a read some time) outlines specific duties for the federal government, and even more restrictions. I know that makes makes me a dangerous right-wing extremist, but I actually believe in ‘em.
J.
My NRA membership for an intellectually honest Con!
The folks at the “tea parties” would have an ounce of credibility IF they were protesting over excessive government spending and expansion of government under Bush. Which is why it’s so crystal clear to everyone that they’re nothing more than bitter, angry McCain/Palin/Paul voters who are united by their hate of Obama.
As Jon Stewart said the other day, it took the right-wing a mere 2 1/2 months to become everything they have hated about the left over the past decade. Nice going.
So Jay Tea’s responses in order were
1. We don’t give a shit about the people who caused this, we just want to blame who is available NOW.
2. Even though “facism” was the buzz word at the tea bagging parties we really don’t give a shit about actual facism. We just want to scare people by saying the word a lot.
3. Please don’t ask me about our behavior durinig the Bush years. We were simply too busy collectively allowing him to tea bag us for us to care how much the Iraq war costs. We would rather just talk about the money we will be saving as President Obama pulls us out of Iraq. Wait I can’t say that because then it would appear that President Obama is trying to lower spending. Better put a snarky quote in there to even it out.
4. I don’t believe that health care expenses are really the problem, damn the OMB which I am loyal devotee to when they talk about deficits though.
5. Id much rather point out a punctuation error than admit we were dupped and be labeled unpatriotic by my wingnut bretheren. So I will just say its been answered without addressing it, hopefully nobody will notice.
This is of course your version of honest debate. And thats why we on the left dismiss you so readily.
Taibbi echos some of my questions and assertations.
http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/04/19/questions-for-teabaggers/
“Notice that neither Colin nor Jay Tea actually comes up with a counter argument.”
No, I did, it’s just that it seems that your reading comprehension isn’t up to par. But here it is again — Oliver Willis is building strawmen and knocking them down. We don’t hand out medals for that where I come from.
“Its always to the Pee Wee Herman “I know you are but what am I” defense. Utterly predictable weaksauce. So why were you protesting Colin? Tell us all why you took to the streets (well not you personally, I am sure you had better things to do, but the idiot fringe of your party is who I am referring to) to protest in full on old British Garb, with signs with depictions of President Obama as Hitler, Stalin or any other boogeyman you can think of. With signs calling for public hangings.”
No, actually I didn’t have anything better to do and walked the couple blocks over to the same protest Oliver was at during my lunch break. Why was I there? Well, we have a 1.2 trillion dollar deficit this year and $500+ billion dollar deficits projected for the next ten years. I’m not too happy about that. The better question is, why weren’t YOU there? You thrilled about the current course?
Having attended a couple of anti-war protests here in DC during the Bush years I can attest that I saw far more images of Hitler in 5 minutes at those protests than I did during my entire stay at the tea party.
“Now I ask you also Colin and Jay Tea, why no signs with Bush’s likeness on them as Chairman Mao or calling for Mitch McConnell to be hanged or even Eric Cantor and Boehner who all voted for TARP I? Why no effigies of Henry Paulson who came from on high with a three page document asking for 700 billion dollars?”
I dunno, why did the antiwar folks only have pics of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld when many Democrats voted for the Iraq invasion? Ask the people who had the signs.
“Why wasn’t the illegal wiretapping under FISA mentioned at all at the tea parties which is the biggest invasion of civil liberties in this country ever undertaken?”
Because that has absolutely nothing to do with taxes and spending, which is what the tea parties were about. Honestly, have you been paying ANY attention?
“Why no signs decrying the 10 billion a month we are spending over in Iraq?”
Actually I did see pics from a tea party that said “End the war and cut taxes.
“Why no signs asking for health care reform to bring down the deficit?”
Oh, I’m sure there were plenty of folks who favored abolishing Medicare/aid in order to halt the federal bleeding. But then maybe again they just hate the poor and elderly.
Will that be before or after you stop sniggering like schoolgirls over “teabagging?”
The joke is that conservatives are such prudes that they didn’t realize what that actually meant.
The percentage of people who believe the Bible that literally is very small, and just how relevant is that to the issues of the day?
You’d be surprised.
Here’s one reason why: I’m looking FORWARD. I’m not overly interested in finding sacrificial victims to sate my need for vengeance;
I thought conservatives supported socialized vengeance (or the “death penalty” as the ultra-cons call it).
You’ll have to speak up, fafaroo; I can’t hear you around Rachel Maddow’s scrotum in your mouth.
Kinda puts that whole indignation about making fun of “teabagging” in a better light, doesn’t it.
We’re already seeing the results of the “stimulus” package, with banks and the automakers finding out that the price of those funds is the federal government exerting outright control over those institutions — witness Rattner’s plan last week of expediting the sale of Chrysler to Fiat by getting banks that accepted bailout money to write off billions in Chrysler debt. And those banks that want to give back bailout money? They’re meeting tremendous resistance — it’s almost as if the government doesn’t want to let them off the hook.
If I’ve learned anything from the last 8 years, it’s that the people that get others into a bad situation are the least likely to get them out of it.
And the idea that the government can manage things better than the private sector? The counterexamples are legion. The Postal Service. Amtrak. The House Bank.
And examples that the private sector can’t manage better than the government: the banks, automakers…
Jay Tea, quick question. You wouldn’t trust a member of PETA to run a slaughterhouse, right? So why should we trust Republicans to run the government?
Speaking of wingnuts being prudes, here’s a post about Powerline’s Johnson thinks that “teabagging” was invented to make him look bad.
Actually Colin I am pretty happy with where we are going in this country except when it comes to not prosecuting the people who ordered torture. See Colin I, like most rational people, realize that a deficit projection changes from year to year for better or worse depending on what the budget for that particular year calls for. Right now its projected to halve the deficit in 4 years. Once health care reform as well as cap and trade are included then the deficit projection will go even lower. Two years from now when the tax cuts for those making over 250,000 expire the deficit will come down again. Once the people in President Obama’s cabinet get done making cuts in their departments which he has asked for once again it comes down. Once we get out of Iraq then the deficit projection comes down yet again. And this is all while we are making investments in areas that will make our country as strong as or stronger that it has ever been in history. Besides that the TARP funds the everyone is all atwitter about are making money right now in interest and dividend payments. Besides that more than a few Banks who took TARP money are saying they will soon return the money. So again the deficit will go down. See thats called taking a rational look at the situation as it stands right now. We are going to have a rough time for awhile trying to reverse the job loss trends but even that is showing signs of turning around. So not only am I happy, I am encouraged Colin. I don’t just look at numbers thrown at me by a political party just for their gain, I look at the big picture of what the money is going to be used for and what we will gain from it. Now how about you explain what we are spending too much money on so we can discuss it in an honest debate. Just saying “we are spending too much” doesn’t come close to having a good argument.
“And examples that the private sector can’t manage better than the government: the banks, automakers…”
And which government made brand of car do you drive? Or anyone you know? Big fan of the Trabant?
“So not only am I happy, I am encouraged Colin. I don’t just look at numbers thrown at me by a political party just for their gain, I look at the big picture of what the money is going to be used for and what we will gain from it. Now how about you explain what we are spending too much money on so we can discuss it in an honest debate. Just saying “we are spending too much” doesn’t come close to having a good argument.”
You really have no idea what you are talking about. Iraq drawdown, tax revenue from those making over 250K, Medicare/aid reform and cap and trade ARE ALREADY FACTORED IN to the projections. Go look it up.
And the numbers are provided courtesy of the freakin’ White House and Congressional Budget Office! I am taking Obama’s projections at face value. And guess which party controls Congress and the CBO? Hint: Not the Republicans.
You are living in fantasy land. You think that you have a better grasp on budget numbers than the people in the White House or CBO who do this for a living?
I don’t know what more to say. It is difficult to argue with someone who is so uninformed.
“Now how about you explain what we are spending too much money on so we can discuss it in an honest debate. Just saying “we are spending too much” doesn’t come close to having a good argument.”
Fair. I say, for starters, abolish the departments of education, energy, commerce, agriculture, HUD, HHS and labor. Yes, I am that mean-spirited. Defense should be cut by at least 10 percent, probably more. The stimulus should be ended.
Also to make tax collection more efficient I would eliminate all deductions and implement a flat tax. The rate would be revenue neutral to capture the same amount that currently comes in, say 24%.
The real bogeyman, of course, are social security and medicare/aid, two big government programs that are going to bankrupt the country. Even Obama knows this.
The CBO is not controlled by the WhiteHouse Mr Informed which is why most people say its the best arbiter of the truth when it comes to projections. As for the rest of your argument I guess you can’t read but let me ask you flat out, do you acknowledge that President Obama’s budget halves the deficit in the first four years?
OW: Liberals tried that for a long time and all we got out of it was the media treating the crazed rantings of lunatics as the equivalent of scientists, doctors, and economists.
Jay Tea : As opposed to such responsible intellectuals as Al Gore, Cindy Sheehan, Paul Ehrlich, Nancy Pelosi, Ward Churchill, and the like?
You do this all the time, Jay. Is it a conscious choice, or do you really see it as providing some sort of reasonable response?
Oliver says the right puts up lunatics as spokespeople and do you counter by listing responsible, knowledgeable people who speak for the right? No, you resort to a kindergarten-level retort of “Well look at these loonies on the left!”
Given the opportunity to engage on an intellectual level and counter a statement made by someone on the left with facts and examples, the best you come up with is yet another “Look over there”.
In your attempt to disprove Oliver’s thesis you’re doing exactly the opposite.
Well done!
And one more thing, the CBO projects Social Security being totally solvent until 2041 and even then there would still be enough to pay out 3/4 benefits if we didn’t do anything so healthcare reform is a much bigger and more pressing issue. Good luck trying to find more than one or two Republicans willing to join the party on actual reform though. And keeping it real some ConservaDems won’t be coming to the table either.
Fair. I say, for starters, abolish the departments of education, energy, commerce, agriculture, HUD, HHS and labor. Yes, I am that mean-spirited. Defense should be cut by at least 10 percent, probably more. The stimulus should be ended.
Also to make tax collection more efficient I would eliminate all deductions and implement a flat tax. The rate would be revenue neutral to capture the same amount that currently comes in, say 24%.
The real bogeyman, of course, are social security and medicare/aid, two big government programs that are going to bankrupt the country. Even Obama knows this.
So after we become a Banana Republic do you suggest we do Ro Sham Bo to see who gets to become Dictator/King/President? Honestly I would like to have a honest debate with you on the issue of spending but other than the 10% reduction in defense spending I just don’t see any rational ideas.
Wow, sg, is there ANYTHING in your comments that resembles reality?
So Jay Tea’s responses in order were
1. We don’t give a shit about the people who caused this, we just want to blame who is available NOW.
No, I said I give a higher priority to FIXING the current problem than finding people to blame. And my attention is focused on those who have the power to FIX the problem (but who seem on making it worse) and not on those who may or may not have caused it, but are completely out of power right now.
2. Even though “facism” was the buzz word at the tea bagging parties we really don’t give a shit about actual facism. We just want to scare people by saying the word a lot.
You’ll have to speak up — you seem to have George Soros’ dried-up, wrinkled scrotum in your throat.
No, the term I saw most often at the tea parties was “socialism.” Socialized banks, socialized auto industry, socialized medicine…
3. Please don’t ask me about our behavior durinig the Bush years. We were simply too busy collectively allowing him to tea bag us for us to care how much the Iraq war costs. We would rather just talk about the money we will be saving as President Obama pulls us out of Iraq. Wait I can’t say that because then it would appear that President Obama is trying to lower spending. Better put a snarky quote in there to even it out.
…and you represent the side that were the deficit hawks for the last few years? Get real. There were countless times when people complained about federal spending (of which Iraq was practically a rounding error), and very, very few of them had “(D)” after their name.
You’re also arguing the “clean hands” fallacy. By your standards, it seems, unless someone has ALWAYS denounced anything that might be considered wasteful spending, they have NO right to complain about anything else. Get stuffed, you idiot.
4. I don’t believe that health care expenses are really the problem, damn the OMB which I am loyal devotee to when they talk about deficits though.
I think that health care INSURANCE expenses are part of the problem, and I am convinced that getting the government to run it is a sure-fire way to make it worse.
5. Id much rather point out a punctuation error than admit we were dupped and be labeled unpatriotic by my wingnut bretheren. So I will just say its been answered without addressing it, hopefully nobody will notice.
I DID answer you, you moron. I took a brief aside to mock you (which I really want to continue — “facism,” “durinig,” “bretheren.” It’s “fascism,” “during,” and “brethren,” you subliterate imbecile), and then I addressed what you said.
I’ve argued the Iraq War countless times, here and other places. I’m not afraid of the topic, just tired of it — and I’m certainly not going to cooperate with you changing the topic.
J.
Jay Tea: The top 1% of income earners earn 19% of the income, but pay 37% of the income tax.
The top ten percent pay 68% of all income taxes.
The bottom 50% earn 13% of the income, but pay 3% of the income taxes.
Yes. IT’s called a progressive tax rate. You should look it up sometime.
Fact is, (to look at extremes to make the point most clear) Bill Gates could lose over 99% of his net worth and not notice an appreciable change in his lifestyle. He could never make another penny in income (thereby avoiding all income taxes) and not notice the loss of income. Meanwhile someone making, say, $40,000 a year and living paycheck to paycheck notices the hurt every time teh cost of living goes up.
But, by all means, let’s have Gates and 40k-guy pay the same tax rate.
Jay Tea: Lower my taxes… so I can decide how to spend my money …
We’re already seeing the results of the “stimulus” package, with banks and the automakers finding out that the price of those funds is the federal government exerting outright control over those institutions
Shocking, isn’t it? That the investors actually want to have a say in how their money is spent.
You’ve actively supporting the teabagger’s (supposed) idea that the people should be in charge of deciding how their money is spent. And then you turn around and suggest when money is given to industry the givers of the money should just STFU.
Astounding.
Will that be before or after you stop sniggering like schoolgirls over “teabagging?”
The joke is that conservatives are such prudes that they didn’t realize what that actually meant.
I knew what the term meant, Zython. I’m not particularly proud of that. I also once listed to a 10-minute George Carlin doing his “incomplete list of impolite terms,” and knew or could figure out what all but two of them meant. (I am still stuck on “Mongolian cluster-fuck” and “Mother Strapalonian.”) I find myself slightly embarrassed that I do understand such crass, vulgar, sophomoric humor, and don’t see the point of the act in question — but if that’s how you get your jollies, have fun.
Here’s one reason why: I’m looking FORWARD. I’m not overly interested in finding sacrificial victims to sate my need for vengeance;
I thought conservatives supported socialized vengeance (or the “death penalty” as the ultra-cons call it).
I support the death penalty for entirely non-vengeance-related reasons. Google up “Joseph Druce.”
You’ll have to speak up, fafaroo; I can’t hear you around Rachel Maddow’s scrotum in your mouth.
Kinda puts that whole indignation about making fun of “teabagging” in a better light, doesn’t it.
Indignation? Far from it. Just demonstrating that I’m not afraid of the term, and trying to converse with you on the level you’ve chosen. I normally eschew it, but you’re having so much fun with teabagging, I thought you might enjoy it without the juvenile euphemisms.
Jay Tea, quick question. You wouldn’t trust a member of PETA to run a slaughterhouse, right? So why should we trust Republicans to run the government?
Actually, Zython, that’s probably not a bad idea. Considering that PETA’s own animal “shelter” in Norfolk, Virginia has about a 95% annual kill rate, they might be pretty good at running a slaughterhouse.
J.
I knew what the term meant, Zython.
Well that certainly puts you ahead of the game in comparison to the face of the movement.
I support the death penalty for entirely non-vengeance-related reasons. Google up “Joseph Druce.”
That situation could’ve been avoided without claiming vengeance on Joseph Druce. From the wikipedia article:
It was noted that while two guards are normally stationed in the unit where Geoghan and Druce were being held, there was only one guard in the unit at the time
Actually, Zython, that’s probably not a bad idea. Considering that PETA’s own animal “shelter” in Norfolk, Virginia has about a 95% annual kill rate, they might be pretty good at running a slaughterhouse.
Way to avoid the question, Mr. Tea.
Indignation? Far from it. Just demonstrating that I’m not afraid of the term, and trying to converse with you on the level you’ve chosen. I normally eschew it, but you’re having so much fun with teabagging, I thought you might enjoy it without the juvenile euphemisms.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Man check out these teabaggers talking about deficits and fiscal responsibility!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTyFcazpdzU
Conservatives want smaller government, but they also want pre-emptive invasions of other countries.
This is why they can’t be taken seriously by adults. There’s a logical paradox at the heart of their “thought.”
Zython, the example of the Druce case is that he was already serving life without parole for 1st degree murder when he killed again. The penalty: several weeks of free trips out of prison for his trial, at the conclusion of which he was given a second sentence of life without parole.
This time, the victim was a pedophile priest. Next time, maybe a guard.
A penal system should be incremental — with each aggravating circumstance, the penalty should be more severe. When the “ultimate penalty” can mean 30, 40, 50, or more years in prison, there is absolutely no incentive for the convict to behave himself — and decades to figure out ways to cause problems.
As the old song goes — “Freedom’s just another word for nothin’ left to lose.” By that standard, inmates like Joseph Druce — inmates serving life without parole in states without death penalties — are truly free, because they can do whatever they want with no fear of consequences.
J.
“Taibbi echos some of my questions and assertations.”
Is this a joke?
Possibly one of the most idiotic and moronic statements on the internets ever.
Here’s one reason why: I’m looking FORWARD. I’m not overly interested in finding sacrificial victims to sate my need for vengeance; I’m more concerned by the people who think that the perfect antidote to the previous grotesque federal spending is to increase it exponentially.
Another reason: You’re a right wing dildo hypocrite. You forgot to mention that. That’s another reason.
Samuel
Maybe you could get Taibbi’s nuts out your mouth for a minute to see that I wasn’t saying he was imitating me but that we were asking the same questions. Questions that I had previously posed on this thread. No back to your regularly scheduled programming.
“I wasn’t saying he was imitating me but that we were asking the same questions”
Um, I knew that you were asking the same questions. That was the point of my comment. And my opinion still holds.
Your bitterness doesn’t work with me, slugger. Get a grip. Can liberals make a coherent statement without resorting to 6th grade level degeneracy?
A few observations on the “Tea Idiots.”
1.)
Jay Tea, if you really want this guy dead, then you should do your own dirty work.
Besides, was he thinking about consequences when he killed the first time?
I knew what the term meant, Zython. I’m not particularly proud of that … I find myself slightly embarrassed that I do understand such crass, vulgar, sophomoric humor … I normally eschew it, but you’re having so much fun with teabagging, I thought you might enjoy it without the juvenile euphemisms.
You’re really kind of a weird, twisted dude, Jay Tea.
Gee, Zython, is that a variant of the “chickenhawk” argument? I don’t KNOW if I could actually go through with it, but I think I could pull the plug/press the plunger/throw the switch on someone like Druce.
And no, Druce probably wasn’t thinking of consequences when he beat to death that hitchhiker 20 years ago, but he very well might have taken it into consideration when he carefully planned out the murder of the former Father Geoghan.
But back to the “chickenhawk” argument… I presume you support universal health care coverage. Are you prepared to volunteer your time, free of charge, for the medical field? Even as a file clerk in the hospital of your choice?
fafaroo: thanks! I’ve put a lot of effort into that. It’s a strong morbid curiosity, combined with healthy dose of individualism and a fascination with slang, the “inside lingo” of select groups, and language in general.
But I stand by my assertion that a familiarity with the lingo of the Urban Dictionary isn’t exactly something to be proud of…
J.
fafaroo: thanks! I’ve put a lot of effort into that.
Yeah, you see i didn’t mean it as a … oh what’s the use. There’s just no point in trying to explain anything to someone who could write something like this:
Jay Tea, if you really need such an elaborate excuse to write the word “scrotum” or the phrase “George Soros’ dried-up, wrinkled scrotum” I would suggest you seek some serious psychiatric help.
And Jay Tea, I believe that anyone with “an interest in language in general” would be able to recognize and appreciate a sland term such as “teabagging.” Far from being “juvenile” it’s actually one of thousands of examples of the kind of creativity and cleverness that marks most subcultural expression.
Simply writing the word “scrotum” over and over, on the other hand, is really just stupid.
It’s cute to see wingers all of a sudden beg to be taken seriously in the realm of adult thought these days, now that they’re firmly in the cold. Because me, I remember the dark days of 2004-2005 or so, when simply asking logic-based questions such as “Why are we making no political progress in Iraq with regards to making it an independent nation,” or “Why are so many car bombs still going off and killing people, Iraqi civilians and US soldiers alike, in zones declared ‘safe” months before?”
The answer I often got, with the straightest of faces?
“Why do you hate America?” or more often, “Why do you hate America you commie faggot?”
So yeah, fuck you Republican Party. You managed to dumb down our national civil discourse in your maniacal attempt to cover up Chimpy’s failures as a president that you only have yourselves to blame. Democrats definitely don’t take you seriously any longer but you know who else doesn’t? Independent voters who threw your sorry asses to the curb in 2006 and 2008, and who will continue to do so until you reinvent yourselves as a party that doesn’t involve Chairman Rush, Bobby “The Intern” Jindal, or my favorite, Sarah “Reads All Newspapers and Magazines Every Day” Palin.
‘Maybe I should dismiss the left because some of you lot were so eager to equate Bush with Hitler. Makes about as much sense as what Oliver is saying.’
Actually, history will equate Bush with failure; the Left has nothing to do with his immoral reign of incompetence.
‘Will that be before or after you stop sniggering like schoolgirls over “teabagging?” ‘
Sniggering? It’s open mockery of an incredible puerile and useless attempt by the Right to create a ‘grassroots’ movement from inside the boardrooms of Fox, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC and the rest of the Multinational Corporation Media that perpetuates the kind of asinine, partisan hackery that is only further dividing your nation into people that can actually think for themselves, and people like you that can’t get dressed in the morning without having the likes of Limbaugh and Hannity and Coulter show you the way.
Pathetic.
‘I’ve argued the Iraq War countless times, here and other places. I’m not afraid of the topic, just tired of it — and I’m certainly not going to cooperate with you changing the topic.’
What you clearly meant to say was, ‘I supported the Iraq war, because I completely bought into the bullshit, ever changing rationales for it’s manufactured ‘necessity,’ but now I want to appear as though voting for Bush in 2004 after recognizing the war was utterly unnecessary and morally criminal, was somehow the lesser of two evils, and that miraculously excuses me for my culpability in propping up the heinous administration that orchestrated it.’
The only problem with that it, no one is buying it.
[i]The CBO is not controlled by the WhiteHouse Mr Informed which is why most people say its the best arbiter of the truth when it comes to projections[/i]
Now you’re not even reading what I wrote, which really hurts my feelings. I said, “And guess which party controls Congress and the CBO? Hint: Not the Republicans.”
Never said that the White House controls the CBO. Honestly, this discussion will go a lot better if you actually response to what I write.
[i]And one more thing, the CBO projects Social Security being totally solvent until 2041 and even then there would still be enough to pay out 3/4 benefits if we didn’t do anything so healthcare reform is a much bigger and more pressing issue.[/i]
Sigh. Do you read the news? At all?
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1890542,00.html
“If you count the $17 billion in income taxes expected to be paid on Social Security benefits, the system will still manage to provide a slight surplus for federal coffers in fiscal 2009. But from 2010 through 2012, there are small projected deficits, and after heading back into the black from 2013 to 2015, the program will then become a growing drain on federal finances, projects the CBO.”
[i]So after we become a Banana Republic do you suggest we do Ro Sham Bo to see who gets to become Dictator/King/President?[/i]
Actually, Banana Republics tend to spend themselves into oblivion and have rampant inflation. That’s what I’m trying to prevent.
[i]Honestly I would like to have a honest debate with you on the issue of spending but other than the 10% reduction in defense spending I just don’t see any rational ideas.[/i]
It is rather clear that an honest debate is the last thing you are interested in. You don’t see my ideas as rational because you have never seriously examined them. Taking just the abolishment of the DoEducation for example. I’m sure you believe that the department helps education and that we would turn into a nation of ignoramuses if it were ended. The sad truth, however, is that the advent of the DOE and its growing role corresponds with a decline in education standards. Do you think that if we abolished the Department of Agriculture that farmers would stop harvesting?
Ok I give up — how do you do italics in the comments? Sorry, just a right-wing mouthbreather here, still trying to get the hang of this internet thing.
You almost had it right. You use these instead of these []. Otherwise perfect.
You almost had it right. You use these instead of these []. Otherwise perfect.
“these” = the LESS THAN and GREATER THAN brackets (which won’t show up when typed since they are interpreted as flag delimiters).
Ok I give up — how do you do italics in the comments? Sorry, just a right-wing mouthbreather here, still trying to get the hang of this internet thing.
The comments use HTML code, not BBcode. Use angle brackets, not straight ones.
By the way, Colin, if the Republicans had their way back in 2005, and privatized Social Security, it would’ve been insolvent 6 months ago.
Is there a point where it’s fair for those paying the most to say “enough?”
Where were they last week? They weren’t teabagging, I can tell you that.
I didn’t see George Soros or Warren Buffet or Steve Jobs or Bill Gates or even Donald Trump (who I would have expected, given that TV cameras were present) marching with mis-spelled signs.
By the way, Colin, if the Republicans had their way back in 2005, and privatized Social Security, it would’ve been insolvent 6 months ago.
No it wouldn’t. The proposal was to partially privatize for those under a certain age (55?). Current retirees wouldn’t have been impacted.
But I’ll concede that privatization would be problematic. That’s why I favor outright abolishment, or at the very least the right to opt out of the system.
Thanks for the italics help.
Jay TeaHere’s one reason why: I’m looking FORWARD. I’m not overly interested in finding sacrificial victims to sate my need for vengeance;
That’s awesome. We’ll never hear about William Ayers or Tnoy Rezko ever again.
Thanks, Jay!
I normally eschew it, but you’re having so much fun with teabagging,
heheheheh *eschew* heheheh.
It’s open mockery of an incredible puerile and useless attempt by the Right to create a ‘grassroots’ movement f
Not even Astro turf. More like a Crab Grass roots movement.
jr, poor translation. Try something like this:
“I supported the Iraq invasion for the stated reasons, not the straw man arguments that the anti-war faction fantasized into existence, as well as my own reasoning and examination of the facts. I recognized that Saddam most likely had absolutely no pre-knowledge of the 9/11 attacks, let alone any culpability. However, I did recognize that events had changed radically after 9/11 and Saddam’s long line of failures to comply with the terms of the 1991 end of hostilities, his open acts of war against the United States and our allies, and attempts to bribe and subvert his way out of sanctions, along with numerous other reasons, many cited in the Authorization for Use of Military Force passed by Congress, left us with no good alternatives. Of those alternatives, invasion and deposing was the least worst.”
J.
And Jay Tea, I believe that anyone with “an interest in language in general” would be able to recognize and appreciate a sland term such as “teabagging.” Far from being “juvenile” it’s actually one of thousands of examples of the kind of creativity and cleverness that marks most subcultural expression.
fafaroo, I recognize the term, and think I understand the metaphorical meaning. Where I go off the track is understanding how the hell it came about.
I guess, in a sense, it’s an insult, as well as an expression of supreme confidence that the person so insulted will not dare exploit the incredible physical vulnerability of the insulter, that the insulted is so utterly cowed that they dare not attempt to strike back, even when given such a great opportunity.
It’s the utter crassness of it that irritates me, as well as the implicit sexism — it’s something that only a man can do, and done either to a woman or in a vaguely homoerotic sense to another man.
I suppose that, in a sense, that’s why I responded the way I do — to take away the euphemism and express it literally. In a sense, I was “teabagging” the term’s users here by putting the real words in their mouths.
And I’ll stand by the “juvenile” description. And my use of the term “sniggering” — it fits the tone perfectly.
J.