Yeah? I heard Obama is a Muslim that was born in Kenya and is a Socialist who wants to make Islam the premiere religion in the US.

Funny thing is, we probably both heard that shit at a McCain/Palin rally.

Wow, did a little digging and this is true. Jay Tea is so wrong about this, he’s almost committing libel!

What else is new?

Really? In what fantasy universe do you see a Republican daring to face the wrath of their Christian Conservative base on ANY controversial issue; gay marriage, abortion, stem cell research?

You want to hold up Nixon as a representative of GOP values, because he started the ball rolling towards Americas’
subservience to China?

Nixon? Really?

Aim higher.

So you vote for Bush TWICE, even after recognizing that he LIED your nation into a manufactured war that bankrupted your nation financially and morally, and you consider that the LESSER of two evils.

Perhaps you should go back to school and learn to think.

So what the fuck do you vote for them for?

Oddly enough, it seems, very few actually practice these principles.

Wow, did a little digging and this is true. Jay Tea is so wrong about this, he’s almost committing libel!

The longest of long shots.

16 years of galloping Atwaterism has clearly defined the GOP as the party of family values, religion, and traditional marriage. Before a Republican president could be in a position to act on gay marriage, he (or she) would have to win election without the rabidly anti-gay Republican base AND with the support of tolerant moderates.

Get cracking on that, will ya?

That’s pretty much why I don’t vote Republican, right there, even when they say something that, if done, I’d agree with.

I have a lot of Christian friends that support the GOP because of religion, when they get essentially none of their core legislation passed, even when the GOP has a clear majority in all branches of government. At that point, it doesn’t matter what your values are in regards to that issue; neither party is going to give you what you want.

So voting for the party that tells you they will, but won’t, is not the best decision. Better to go to the next item on your list and see who’s actually going to do something about it, not just talk about it.

Like with Campaign Finance Reform, which is something I care about, but know that neither party will allow to happen in any meaningful way. I basically tune out candidates when they talk about it, ’cause why bother getting fired up about talk that won’t amount to anything?

That is not to say that he would veto a bill allowing it.

As I recall, the difference between you and most commenters here is that most won’t state something completely false. Anyone who gives half a damn about gay rights wouldn’t have supported McCain over Obama, and to state the two are equivalent is willful ignorance. Unless, perhaps you think gay rights include being excluded from the military, discriminated in the workplace, not allowed partner benefits, hospital visits, or death benefits, which would explain your support of McCain (of course, this is through his voting record rather than his most recent rhetoric).

Of course, the more cynical point of view would be that you don’t care at all about gay rights, but have merely identified a position where the patrons of this site differ from the position of Obama and are using it as a tool to accuse us of being hypocrites. Of course, this requires the lie that McCain and Obama are equivalent, which might explain the comment above..

There is exactly one thing in that whole blather that is worth responding to, the part I bolded:

Quite possible, and I hope Obama does. But there’s also the old “Only Nixon could go to China” principle. It might take a Republican to provide the political cover to get it through.

Funk, go back to school and learn to read. I said their positions on certain issues are closer to mine. I said nothing about values, nothing about them “representing” me. They don’t, and won’t.

Everyone has their core issues. Mine tend to be tend to be small government, national security, and economic freedom. Socially, I consider myself moderate to progressive. Yes, the Republicans were hefty spenders of late. But that left me with a choice: the party that says they favor small government, or the party that cheerfully endorses big government. I could vote for the Republicans and hope they were telling the truth, or the Democrats and hope they were lying.

Alternately, I could vote for the Democrats under the theory that “at least they’re honest scoundrels, where the Republicans lie about it.”

Vermont’s legislature just passed gay marriage, and I’m quite happy about that. New Hampshire passed civil unions two years ago, and my only irritation was that it was the top legislative priority after the election — after not a single candidate ran on that issue. This time, it’s the same thing — the push to pass a gay marriage law came right after the election, when not a single candidate ran on that issue. I find myself irritated at the double pulling of the old “bait and switch” technique.

Here’s hoping Obama does come around, and endorses gay marriage. I don’t think he will, and I don’t think he can, politically — at least not in his first term. But I hope he does.

J.

There is one important distinction between Obama’s position and many in the religious wing of the Republican party, though. Obama does not support gay marriage, but does support civil unions. Religious conservatives support passing laws explicitly banning both practices.

When I refer to them being bigots, this is what I mean. We can rightly criticize someone for not supporting something we feel is right, but it’s a far cry from putting effort into obstruction and demonization. I’ve never heard Obama claim that gay marriage will lead to the destruction of straight marriage, or that it opens the door to bestiality (and, by the way, we don’t miss you Santorum, so have a nice political afterlife!)

Obama shouldn’t be given a free pass for his views, but it’s not correct to say that he’s in the same playground as many in the Republican party who’ve worked to drum up gay marriage fear.

Another load of crap; gay families did not ‘routinely’ attend that event during Bush’s tenure, because the WH made it clear they were not welcome.

Can you not say anything that isn’t littered with lies?

Wrong again; what a surprise.

McCain is ON RECORD in support of a Constitutional ammendment to BAN gay marriage; Obama has said UNEQUIVOCALLY that he WILL NOT INTEREFERE WITH INDIVUDUAL STATES’ RIGHT TO ALLOW IT.

Where is the similarity>

Kidding, kidding.

Never cared much one way or the other about gay marriage. Which ever side pisses me off the least will get my support. I really couldn’t care less.

If it makes you feel better to claim you’re not a Republican, after you ADMIT they represent your values and that you vote for them, go right ahead.

Just don’t forget to let us know when Elvis gets here.

So your acceptance of gay marriage excuses all of your other hate inspired posts?

Get real.

I’ll lay odds that President Obama WILL sanction gay marriage before the end of his second term, but NO GOP President WILL EVER do so, because the regressive, increasingly insignificant, ignorant and hate filled base support for the Republican party are ‘compassionate’ Christian conservatives who STILL believe Obama is a Muslim, that all the problems in the US are caused by immigrants, that Dumbya is a Saint, and that ‘Libruls’ are evil.
Catering to this ever marginalized, lunatic minority has left the Right wing clinging to such desperate measures as ‘tea parties,’ and the rants of Michelle Bachmann and Limbaugh.

Try mentioning to this deranged mob that Jesus had 2 fathers, and the result will be a mass psychosis before their heads explode.

It’s the Right that has fought for years to combine religious fanaticism with politics, and the results are plain for all to see the last 8 years; a shattered economy, two failed wars, the US reputation in shreds and the country even more polarized since the Civil War.

Obama may be on the wrong side of this issue right now, but he has never called for an ammendment to ban gay marriage, nor will he; you can’t say that for the majority of the Right.

I cited my long-standing support for gay marriage because the most common dismissals are “you’re just making this up” or “you’re just saying you are for it to score points.” I’ve been consistent on this, and it’s with a touch of ironic pride that I am considerably more “progressive” on this issue than President Obama, who wraps his bigotry in religious sophistry.

In all seriousness… I think the push for marriage now is a tactical mistake. Get civil unions up and rolling in a large number of states, show that they don’t lead to Teh Apocalypse, and THEN go for marriage. Civil unions are the proof of concept; once they succeed, then the “marriage” isn’t a revolutionary thing, but just a change of terminology.

It’s not the idealistic solution, but it seems the most pragmatic.

J.