Weirder, Jay Tea, what you are talking about is looking at it from a fascist perspective. You are assuming that the CORPORATION that is receiving taxpayer dollars is the one making the decisions.

In traditional capitalism (not your proto-corporatist fantasy world), the INVESTOR, in this case the taxpayer, is the one making the decisions.

True, under Republican President Bush, the corporations were making the decisions even while Republican Bush and his cronies were handing those corporations billions and billions and billions of taxpayer dollars without any oversight or accountability.

Somehow right wingers didn’t call THAT out* for what it was: corporatism (proto-fascism).

But when Obama makes a little noise that any corporation taking taxpayer dollars might have some oversight, somehow in your Through the Looking Glass world that’s, what?

In capitalist world that’s what’s called responsible investing and buying ownership.

I’ll grant you this, Republican President Bush’s corporatist policies don’t look much different than that being meted out by Geithner and Summers and some of Obama’s other right of center economists.

That’s been a pretty shrill complaint by the left. See: Robert Reich, Paul Krugman, Dean Baker, Brad DeLong, amongst multiple other econ bloggers.

*Lonely libertarian Ron Paul might have called it out, he occasionally surprises me.

Ah, so you’re admitting that contrary to your previous statement he wasn’t fired.

Rather, refused to invest any more money unless assured that the person who had been in charge while GM headed down the tubes wouldn’t be in charge any more. Sounds pretty typical of responsible investors to me.

J.

And just how did he manage to do that, Jay? Did Wagoner work for some private company that the government had no involvement with? Did Obama just call Wagoner into his office and tell him he has fired?

Jay, why do you hate the truth so much?

That does not absolve anyone in the slightest for failing to plan at the beginning, or from disregarding the advice from the military experts.

JerseyGeorge: Torture? Cry all you want I would have waterboarded everyone of those murderous bastards to obtain every last piece of info possible.

And when the torture doesn’t stop with the “murderous bastards”? How many people in Abu Garaib had useful intell? And how do you know who the murderuous bastards are? Anyone who you think just might be? That’s worked out really well.

JerseyGeorge: Move aside if if You are too blinded by ideological hatred to see that those idiots are the greatest threat We face today!

I could say exactly the same thing. And “those idiots” I’d point to would be folks inside of our own government and with radio/TV programs.

It’s like an old Twilight Zone episode. Do one massive attack and watch us tear ourselves apart in panicked response. Moral authority? Washed down the waterboard. Civil liberties? Who needs ‘em? We’ve got illegal wiretaps. Rule of law? Sure, once we finish politicizing the Justice Department. Checks and balances, a government responsive to the people? That’s what signing statements are for.

JerseyGeorge: No matter what your politics were, George Bush was treated with the upmost contempt for six years and was attacked for everything on a daily basis.

Ever consider why? In your opinion, didn’t the guy ever make a mistake?

JerseyGeorge: Vietnam was the epitomy of micro-management and prolonged that conflict by years. There is no comparison here.

I agree. After all “that whats called “a false equivalency”. And we know where those go.” The rest of your comment is just meaningless vitriol.

Not at all.
Now, if the CEO had fired the President, you might have a point.

By the way, Jay Tea, the Republicans allowing corporations to control the government is the definition of Mussolini’s fascism: the combination of corporations and the government.

News, you might have heard about a little incident recently where the President of the United States fired the CEO of a privately-held company. How does that fit in with your statement?

Oh, and the reason why Republicans wanted the US OUT of Somalia before the Blackhawk Down incident was that they didn’t think that Clinton had any business sending them IN in the first place. He sent in SEALS and an invasion force to deliver food — then decided to wage war against the warlords. He also allowed CNN and other media to videotape the SEALS landing, meeting them on the beaches with spotlights in the dead of night. It was one of the most appalling things Clinton did as president.

Oh, and News, lumping me in with Bush and Cheney? I’ve never even stood for office, sought or held any government position. (Well, I once applied for a job with a city over a decade ago, but that went nowhere.) I have no authority to order anything, and haven’t even tried. And the particulars of the threat? I was just trying to emulate Strowbridge, with an insult based on a line from the black comedy classic “Heathers.”

Geez… I praise Obama for his actions here, I join you in condemning Obama for his opposition to gay marriage… and I STILL get roundly criticized. There’s just no pleasing some people.

Good thing that I’d take your approval as a sign that I was seriously in the wrong…

J.

And what did the Republican sadists who authorized torture get? A list of false intelligence that cost millions to run down and debunk.

Beyond torture being sadism (and terrorism on a personal level), torture is a bad military tactic because it produces bad intelligence.

And worse, strategically torture increases militant radicalization of potential allies and it also has severe consequences for American troops who may be captured.

Republican President Bush II was/is a lousy diplomat. Yet, even while his father, Bush I, was a better diplomat, it was Republican President Bush I’s failure with Iraq that created the Kurdish disasters that had Turkey still freaked out over a decade later.

Because of a combination of failures over both Republican President Bush I and Bush II, the pincer attack from the North and South had to be scraped.

Even after taking Baghdad, it was political interference by the Republican leadership that continued to make and create unnecessary problems. It was worse than a “blunder” to allow the Republican political appointee to make the decision of disbanding the Iraqi armed forces. It was a crucial military error of strategic proportions. It was also something that was done without even discussing it with America’s professional military leaders.

“JerseyGeorge,” when you support torture you create conditions that endanger American military forces.

Rationalize torture any way you want but that means that you’ve lost the high ground. What you do to the “other” will be done to ours. Even General George Washington understood that. Washington spoke out against torture and not only retained the high ground, he even earned the respect of some of the British troops.

Torture isn’t about “those murderous bastards” you refer to, it’s about OUR AMERICAN TROOPS. You don’t torture the bad guys so you can demand that they don’t torture OUR AMERICAN TROOPS.

“JerseyGeorge,” when you bring up Viet Nam, you do realize that had Republican McCain been in charge we would still be fighting in Viet Nam, right? As it is, Republican Nixon “cut and ran” from Viet Nam and now Nike has sweatshop factories there that are making them billions.

And “JerseyGeorge,” when you advocate TORTURE and then complain about “vitriol” (words) like calling SOMEONE WHO ADVOCATES TORTURE A “SOCIOPATHIC SADIST” you clearly are not thinking about what you are saying.

TORTURE IS SOCIOPATHIC SADISM. Worse, TORTURE IS TERRORISM on a very personal level.

So when you advocate for torture, “JerseyGeorge,” think about what it reveals about you. And think about how you endanger American troops with that advocacy of sadism.

Why do you hate American troops, “JerseyGeorge?”

As for your link about “advertising,” what do you think millions and millions of free advertising dollars from Murdoch’s FOX Republican propaganda infotainment television is? And what about the corporate lobbyist money paying for tea bagger parties?

And moreover, did you know that the American Tea Party was a protest AGAINST corporate tax breaks? Tea baggers don’t understand history or the contemporary meaning of “tea bagging.”

Here is a compilation of Republican speeches in 1993 demanding that America ‘cut and run’ from Somalia.

My God, Where to start, From start to finish an ideological driven rant! After hitting a few links I see that you get your info filtered from one site mainly so that could account for it.
I had problems with the execution of the assault, Intially the fact that at the 11th hour Turkey declined to let the 4th ID attack form the north was a bitter blow. We lost the hammer and anvil attack on the country and allowd the enemy a path of escape north.
The fact that the Iraq armed forces were disolved was a blunder it could have been stabilized by just eliminating the revolutionary command council and the republican guard.
But warfare is just that unpredictable the outcome is determined by the adjustments you make on the fly and the information you obtain to make those adjustments.
Torture? Cry all you want I would have waterboarded everyone of those murderous bastards to obtain every last piece of info possible. They opened this dance.
Move aside if if You are too blinded by ideological hatred to see that those idiots are the greatest threat We face today!
I don’t buy into the whole line of bullshit that it’s our fault either.
“Also, Clinton was being hounded by your buddy right wing extremists over his personal life throughout his Presidency. Republicans even accused him of making up the terrorist threat. When Clinton responded to the terrorist threat with force the Republicans accused him of ‘wagging the dog.’”
Please…Are you kidding me, No matter what your politics were, George Bush was treated with the upmost contempt for six years and was attacked for everything on a daily basis. I believe that whats called “a false equivalency”. And we know where those go.
“BTW, where’s the record of Commentary Magazine making a profit, is it a right wing welfare recipient? The propaganda toy for a wealthy right winger by chance?”
Is that like left wing bloggers doin the pirate thing to the Dems http://interested-participant.blogspot.com/2009/04/liberal-bloggers-want-bailout-sorta-it.html

“it was NOT micromanaged out of the White House
Had they even managed it a little bit, 4000 Americans might not be six feet under now. It takes an amazingly stupid person to try and pretend like George W. Bush didn’t kick our military in the balls for 8 years.”
Vietnam was the epitomy of micro-management and prolonged that conflict by years. There is no comparison here. The rest of your comment is just meaningless vitriole. but it is in line with the new direction the Democrat party has taken. We used to act like adults now we are nothing more than spoiled children . i see the term “Sociopathic sadists” being bandied about, correct! Decribes the left perfectly and they are dragging the rest of the party to destruction with it.

Jay Tea here exhibits the right’s wonderful facility with euphemisim:”Just use him as a messenger.”

Jay Tea, you suggested that, instead of following the rule of law, that we try to achieve our desired ends by using fear and intimidation on a 16 year old kid. As you wrote:

Instead, we give him pictures of his dead buddies, give him a quick tour of the Marine spaces of the USS Boxer, and then send him home with a message to the rest of the pirates: this is how things will be done from now on. I think I like that idea, far better than a trial.

Don’t be a fuckwit by pretending for one second that you had the well-being of this kid in mind at all by trying to keep him “out of the courts.” Please have the courage of your idiocy, thank you.

You’re doing what’s called “projecting,” the assumption that who you are is what other people are.

Many on the right wing have been supporting a proto-fascist movement for decades. Clearly that includes you.

For the record, Jay Tea, at no point was it suggested that you don’t have the right to say any crazy thing you want.

Pointing out what you are saying and pointing out the consequences of what you are saying isn’t censorship.

In fact, the more you exercise your free speech here the more people have the opportunity to show how intellectually corrupt the right wing has become.

Hopefully those on the right that have true faith or have just been conned by neo-con-artists like yourself will eventually be able to see through your deceptions and recognize that you are a sadistic, warped, sociopath who would continue telling the “big lie” even after repeatedly being revealed as a fraud.

Which illustrates the kind of sadistic criminal acts supported by the right wing these days.

By right winger Jay Tea’s standards, when Republican henchmen choreographed torture they were only exercising their 1st Amendment right to free speech.

No wonder you work for that psychopath Norman Podhoretz. But, hey, Jay Tea, you’re just following orders, right?

The Republican Party’s leadership: Sociopathic sadists.

The Republican Party’s leadership: Duplicitous hypocrites.

As are Bush and Cheney, but it didn’t seem to stop them.

This is the “no matter what he does he’s wrong” mentality that we complain about in the right. No need to show the left is equally adept at it.