’)That’s how our military rolls.
U.S. forces killed three pirates Sunday and rescued cargo ship Capt. Richard Phillips, held hostage in a lifeboat since Wednesday, after seeing him in “imminent danger,” a senior defense official told CNN.The official contradicted earlier reports that the captain jumped into the water off Somalia on Sunday.
AP: Obama twice approved force to rescue hostage
President Barack Obama twice authorized the military to rescue a U.S. captain who was being held by Somali pirates and whose life appeared to be at risk, administration officials said after Sunday’s rescue.
The Defense Department twice asked Obama for permission to use military force to rescue Capt. Richard Phillips from a lifeboat off the Somali coast. Obama first gave permission around 8 p.m. Friday, and upgraded it at 9:20 a.m. Saturday. Officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations said the second order was to encompass more military personnel and equipment that arrived in the Indian Ocean to engage the pirates.
That’s how our president rolls.
But 11 days into the stand-off, the US said in a letter to China it was “very sorry” for the loss of a Chinese fighter pilot in a collision with a US spy plane, and for the US aircraft’s entering Chinese airspace without permission.
Damn straight Olliver. I’m SO sick and tired of right-wingers conveying Obama as weak, this story really hits home. I’d be great if all those critics sat up and took notice, but they probably won’t. They see what they want to see.
In the meantime, excellent job Navy! You did the U.S. proud!
Three cheers for the military Obama inherited. And applause for him, too, for letting the Navy do what they spend so much time training to do.
I’m sure we all remember what happened the last time a Commander in Chief micromanaged the military in that neck of the woods…
J.
Yeah, JT, we invaded Iraq.
You hate to put too much significance on something such as this, but it just seems as if the adults are back in charge after so many years of nonsense: a President to be proud of with a rebuilding military at his back, leading the world back from the abyss.
Naruto fans…
Look up “micromanage,” Robert — there’s a picture of the Battle of Mogadishu.
Say what you want about the invasion of Iraq, it was NOT micromanaged out of the White House. Bush told ‘em what to do, then let them handle the details — and the actual invasion was executed brilliantly.
J.
…and ‘decided’ not to chase down bin Laden in Afghanistan, and see where *that* got us?
Mogadishu? Kinda sorta like Saint Ronnie’s little adventure in Beirut?
Continuing Jay’s logic, bravo to Bill Clinton’s military for routing the Taliban and the Republican Guard.
I love it. We gave the pirates every opportunity to end this peacefully. But only AFTER that did the Prez authorize the ass-whupping.
Bravo Zulu to the SEAL team that took those bastards out!
Jay Tea, you are sub-human.
Kinda, justadood. That was one of Reagan’s biggest mistakes — it, along with Carter and Iran, led to the growing perception of the United States as a “paper tiger” that emboldened the terrorists.
Carter’s impotence with Iran, Reagan’s retreat from Beirut, Clinton’s retreat from Mogadishu, Clinton’s not taking Al Qaeda seriously at all — all were major factors in terrorists thinking that they could strike at us with impunity.
GLV, I was playing off of Obama’s frequent excuse that he “inherited” the deficit and the economy. Sorry you missed that; guess it was too subtle.
J.
Again, kudos to President Obama. Now let’s hope he maintains his resolve on this issue; it’s pretty likely that the pirates will (at first) double down and be even more aggressive in the short term.
Luv, thanks! That’s the sweetest thing anyone’s said to me today!
J.
“Say what you want about the invasion of Iraq, it was NOT micromanaged out of the White House.”
No, it was micro-managed out of the Pentagon by Rumsfeld you dumb piece of shit.
Clinton’s not taking Al Qaeda seriously at all
Jesus, you’re stupid.
I knew Carter was going to be brought up….
At least Carter and Clinton, when faced with the results of their errors, owned up to them and moved on.
With Ronnie and Georgie (II, not I, who I see in some ways as an aberration among Re-Con presidents), the MO is “*Never* admit a mistake, even if it causes ten thousand dead”….Keep on digging, and some day you’ll dig your way back to sunlight….
….unless that light you see is simply lava coming to cook your goose. Keep on digging, Jay!
Jay Tea is a right-winger. And every single breath and syllable from a right-winger is about short-term political gain. They NEVER see the big picture and never think about anything past their noses.
It’s the reasons Republicans are such abysmal failures. All they can see and hear are themselves. They don’t even live in the America the rest of us do. That’s why they’re puzzled that with all of their tea parties and Glenn Beck diatribes and Rush Limbaugh’s “20 million listeners” Obama’s popularity GROWS.
They live in their own grotesque pocket dimension.
Jay Tea, you’re a lying sack of…
The Republicans “micromanaged” America’s military for eight solid years.
First, the Republicans manipulated the intelligence to make Iraq appear a threat. It wasn’t.
Next the Republicans lied US into the Iraq war without proper justification. The Republicans did it with the help of lying sociopaths like you, Jay Tea and your employer, Commentary Magazine editor and psychopath Norman Podhoretz.
Then the Republicans ignored the advice of America’s professional military. Specifically, the Republicans mocked General Shinseki’s careful advice that it would take ‘on the order of several hundred thousand troops to secure the peace.’
Then the Republicans PROFITED from the war by looting the treasury while simultaneously running up a massive debt while demanding a tax cut like a bunch of spoiled children.
The Republican civilian appointee, not the military chain of command, also decided to disband the Iraq military, arguably one of the worst political and military decisions of the Iraq war.
Worse, the Republicans short changed the troops on the ground, denying our American troops adequate body armor and subsequently denying them MRAPS.
And when our troops came home? Republicans denied them adequate medical facilities (see: Walter Reed hospital scandal) and Republicans even denigrated troops legitimate claims of PTSD.
At every point the Republicans “micro-managed” America’s military forces. Sure, you would be right to say that Republican President Bush was completely neglectful, but his heavy right hands Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney were heavily involved in micro-managing anything and everything that struck their whim, right down to precisely choreographing the torture used on captured suspects.
And the notion that “the actual invasion was executed brilliantly” conveniently omits the years of American deaths as well as the uncounted Iraqi massacres, essentially an ethnic cleansing, that happened right under our inadequately numbered troops noses.
Those massacres happened because the inadequate American troops (a Republican political decision) weren’t able to, early in the war, secure Iraqi weapons depots nor adequately show overwhelming force to show that they were in charge. Remember the looting of Iraq antiquities? Too few troops to stop the looting gave Iraqi’s the wrong message.
If the Republican “plan” was to misdirect American military troops away from the frontlines of terrorist activity, Afghanistan and Pakistan, then, yes, the Republican macro-managed plan worked.
The Republican plan allowed for a resurgence of military hostilities in Afghanistan and worse, an infection of militant religious extremists in Pakistan.
Oh, and, Jay Tea, “Iran” is Republican President Eisenhower’s fault. He misused the CIA to topple a democratically elected Iranian government and replace it with a right wing military dictator. After a couple of decades under Republican Eisenhower’s dictator, the Iranians rose up and toppled that dictatorship, replacing it with the militant religious extremists that still control the country today. That’s Republican Eisenhower’s legacy.
Also, Clinton was being hounded by your buddy right wing extremists over his personal life throughout his Presidency. Republicans even accused him of making up the terrorist threat. When Clinton responded to the terrorist threat with force the Republicans accused him of ‘wagging the dog.’
And when Clinton left office his administration clearly warned the incoming Republican Bush administration that the terrorist threat was the most significant threat America faced, but the Republicans ignored those warnings, they were more interest in getting their tax cuts and deregulating the financial industry.
Jay Tea, you are a professional liar, a con artist without conscience. Apparently that makes you a perfect right wing blogger for Commentary Magazine. But just because you repeat a lie endlessly doesn’t make it true.
BTW, where’s the record of Commentary Magazine making a profit, is it a right wing welfare recipient? The propaganda toy for a wealthy right winger by chance?
Let’s be clear about the Republican Party’s legacy to America: massive debt, a weakened military, the appearance of impotence against cave dwelling lunatics, a world that has alternately hated US and hoped for our down fall, a manufacturing base given to China and India, and eight solid years of denying peer reviewed science and the evidence of a global climate crisis.
That’s on top of the Republican deregulation mania that directly created the worst economic collapse the US and the world has seen since the Great Depression.
Republican deregulation has also resulted in a rise of food poisonings, lead painted toys sold to children, poisoned water and air, and has anyone been reading about the Chinese dry wall emitting sulfur fumes?
That’s the right wing’s unregulated capitalism: possibly as many as 100,000 American homes poisoned with who knows what mixed in with Chinese dry wall.
The right wing is now made up entirely of sociopaths, fanatics, and suckers.
While there’s nothing that can be done with sociopaths like Commentary Magazine fiction writers, it’s important to keep pointing out to the fanatics and suckers that the sociopaths leading the Republican Party have driven America into a ditch.
There are still decent Americans amongst the ranks of the fanatics and suckers.
Those of true faith vote Democratic.
And getting suckered by a con artist is the kind of thing a half-bright person can learn to avoid in the future.
Even some of the right wing trolls lurking here might be redeemable.
Just say no to Republican sociopaths.
it was NOT micromanaged out of the White House
Had they even managed it a little bit, 4000 Americans might not be six feet under now. It takes an amazingly stupid person to try and pretend like George W. Bush didn’t kick our military in the balls for 8 years.
To get back to the subject: Why should we spend our blood and treasure to protect the assets of a multi-million dollar corporation that knowingly sends their ships into a dangerous part of the world? Is our military a private security force?
The rescue of Capt. Phillips was successful. What’s the right-wing reaction?
“Obammy!! Yah!! Yah!! He did something wrong!! He must have!! He’s Obammy!!”
Why should we spend our blood and treasure to protect the assets of a multi-million dollar corporation that knowingly sends their ships into a dangerous part of the world? Is our military a private security force?
Yes, the corporation behaved recklessly. But I find the idea that this means we leave ordinary Americans at the mercy of killers to be distasteful.
Analogy: A wealthy heiress gets a little drunk one night and wanders into a dangerous, unlit alley, where she is attacked by a gang of street punks.
A squad car rolls by and witnesses the attack in progress.
Does the squad car continue on, citing that “This rich idiot shouldn’t have been so irresponsible; why should our taxes go towards saving this woman for her own mistakes?”
Good for Obama doing this but Oliver you aren’t seriously saying that China and these pirates are somehow military comparable ARE YOU? I sure hope not.
The police and the military have different missions. I don’t disagree with this rescue but I’ve suspected for a while now there’s some shipping cabal that has been warming up lobbyists, media outlets and campaign coffers to do their security work for them. And now they haved a feel-good, photogenic story that the cable news yahoos have been eating up. At the least, Maersk deserves a hefty bill for this.
“Obama killed the pirates because they knew he was Malcolm X’s son”-cons
A lot of countries have sent naval forces to battle the pirates. I actually think it’s a good thing, in limited amounts. Good for training individual nation’s forces, and also for coordinating with other country’s forces. (Iran has a warship there as well, if I’m not mistaken.)
(Iran has a warship there as well, if I’m not mistaken.)
An eeeeevil warship, no doubt.
Traveling thru the wingnut-o-sphere today Obama receives no credit for the hostage situation, but had things gone badly I’m sure he would have received all the credit.
Wow, it’s like a cornucopia of stupid. I dunno where to start.
Screw it. It’s not even worth starting.
Pirates are defined as “enemies of humanity,” and have been for centuries. Fighting pirates is the right and duty of every navy on the world.
The reason why so many ships are sailing near Somalia is obvious to anyone who can READ A FUCKING MAP. Ships traveling into and out of the Persian Gulf via Africa, ships going through the Suez Canal — they all have to pass off Somalia. And where time is money, the further they have to detour out to sea to avoid Somalia, the more time and money (in fuel alone) the trip costs.
Obama did precisely the right thing here — he realized that “once you pay the Dane-Geld, you never get rid of the Dane.” His order should have been more aggressive — the Navy should have been authorized to take out the pirates at the first opportunity, not just when Captain Phillips was in imminent danger — but it worked well. Three pirates will not sail again, and the fourth is in our custody.
I read one comment that suggested we should not try this 16-year-old Somali who told his comrades that he was going aboard the Bainbridge to “negotiate,” then promptly surrendered. Instead, we give him pictures of his dead buddies, give him a quick tour of the Marine spaces of the USS Boxer, and then send him home with a message to the rest of the pirates: this is how things will be done from now on. I think I like that idea, far better than a trial.
Obama did the right thing here. We can only hope he maintains his resolve.
J.
Shorter Jay: Having been pwned yet again, I will babble on with inane points that nobody here disagreed with in the first place (e.g., pirates are bad).
Wow, it’s like a cornocopia of stupid. I dunno where to start.
JT, I completely agree with you, and I only read your six posts.
Longer Jaim: Jay Tea is right, so we’ll just beat up on him instead of actually admitting it. I take it as a compliment.
I repeat: the invasion of Iraq was executed brilliantly. Not a single point any of you have raised addresses that in the least. The decision of whether or not to invade, the discussion leading up to it, the following events — all irrelevant to the point that the US invasion of Iraq and dismantling of Saddam Hussein’s regime was carried out with incredible speed and efficiency and a minimal loss of life and destruction of infrastructure.
In this case, the pirates were careless and had the misfortune of encountering a genuine American hero in Captain Phillips. First, he led his crew in defeating the pirates, then offered himself as hostage for their safety, then managed to escape captivity TWICE, the second time giving the Navy the opportunity to take out the pirates — thanks to Obama’s granting them permission.
Phillips, Sullenberger… it’s good to know the age of the ordinary American rising to heroic status when necessary is not over.
J.
I repeat: the invasion of Iraq was executed brilliantly.
No, it wasn’t. The people on the ground executed a stupid strategy, but they executed it brilliantly. They were, as the saying goes, lions led by goats. Speed =/= victory. They did not crush the enemy, they blew right past him, and they and the Iraqi people spent the next several years paying for it.
I will grant that I am a layman in military matters. This is all via the military historian Thomas Ricks, in his book ‘Fiasco.’
Obama did the right thing here. We can only hope he maintains his resolve.
Hey, you’re the first con I’ve seen say this anywhere. Good for you.
JT, are you trying to create a galaxy of stupid? Yes, the Iraq invasion went great, it may have been the best two weeks of your life. What happened next? Who’s fault was that? Was micromanagement involved? Or a complete absence of management?
Your heroes were the underpants gnomes behind the stupidity:
1) Invade Iraq
2) ????
3) Permanent republican majority
It’s really too bad that ???? ended up being thousands of soldiers lives and trillions of dollars wasted.
I’m sure we all remember what happened the last time a Commander in Chief micromanaged the military in that neck of the woods…
Of course, we all do, Jay Tea:
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/09/16/fallujah/print.html
Oh shit. Wait. You meant the The Battle of Mogadishu. Yeah, too bad Bush didn’t learn from that but Obama, apparently, did.
I think I like that idea, far better than a trial.
I am no longer ever surprised when a conservative expresses contempt for the rule of law.
I am equally deadened to the irony of a conservative throwing around phrases like “enemies of humanity,” a legal term that’s also applied to torturers.
“I repeat: the invasion of Iraq was executed brilliantly.”
Mega Lulz.
Iraq was botched all the way through — on the military end, on the domestic “hearts and minds” end, and primarily on the intelligence end (no WMD, putting our trust in Iraqi guys we shouldn’t have, giving out millions in hard cash, much of which simply went missing).
Rumsfeld is now a persona non grata for good reason — people have realized what a gargantuan fuck-up his planning did. Even Republicans aren’t returning his calls.
Again Jay, you must have been absent that day in kindergarten when the teacher taught us that just because we wish something is true does not make it so. And again, the more you deny reality, the more hopeless it becomes for the Republican party to ever rise from the ashes and realize that obvious — Iraq was a huge, costly mistake, and George W. Bush’s presidency, and all those who worked under him (Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc.) were complete and utterly hopeless morons.
But please, continue to embrace the biggest American strategic blunder since. . . . No, the biggest American strategic blunder ever.
Wek, I dunno what you consider the “wingnut-o-sphere,” but I found praise — occasionally reluctant, but praise nonetheless — for Obama on the following sites:
Little Green Footballs: “I know we’re supposed to detest and mock everything President Obama does, on pain of excommunication, but as Commander in Chief he deserves congratulations for handling this one just right.”
Say Anything: “Personally, I think the assault and rescue Obama authorized was the right move.”
Hot Air: “Kudos to the SEALs, and kudos to Obama for making the right call.”
Ace of Spades: “As for Obama’s role in this, it seems it was neither heroic nor stupid. This is as it should be. He seems to have given his approval to the military’s requests for authority and then let them do their thing. He did his job, that’s enough for now.”
Four major sites, four voices of praise (albeit Ace’s being very weak).
What color is the sky in your blogosphere, Wek?
J.
Isn’t it obvious these pirates knew where the “real” birth certificate was hidden so Barry had no choice but to dispose of them?
Right Jay?
J.G.Thayer: “Say what you want about the invasion of Iraq, it was NOT micromanaged out of the White House.”
No, they delegated that to people hand picked due to their loyalty, and nothing else.
J.G.Thayer: “I repeat: the invasion of Iraq was executed brilliantly.”
Only if you completely ignore everything that happened outside of defeating and capturing Saddam.
Guarding weapons caches.
Guarding cultural sites.
Smooth political transition.
Etc.
All of this is part of the invasion. All of it was fucked up royally.
Jay,
This is a no brainer. Anyone who goes out of their way to find fault with how this situation was resolved deserves to be mocked endlessly and without mercy. This was well played by everyone involved and, shoe on the other foot, I’d be the first one congratulating Bush for a job well done.
Even Ace’s response, as back-handed as it was, is, ironically, how Obama views his own role: He’s just doing his job. Obama congratulated the Navy and Capt. Phillips through a press release. No glory hogging. No horns and trumpets. No press conference with ten full minutes of, “I told you so.” Just a classy, dignified, and calm response.
What you just saw was the same thing that 70 million of us saw in this man when we voted him into office.
I think JayTea is spending too much time praising George Bush for his ill fated invasion of Iraq.
The speed of Iraq falling isn’t so much a testimony to the great military leadership of George W. Bush. It just drives home the fact that George W. Bush was a huge liar and that Iraq was not a threat to its neighbors or the US.
Also, to spend the amount of time falsely hand wringing and blathering about ‘weapons of mass destruction’ and imminent danger from said collection of bakery goods and golf putters, you’d think some main goals would be to secure suspected and known weapon and storage sites immediately. Instead they took months to secure nuclear waste storage facilities and the like. Conventional arm sites weren’t secured for months either. WHat does that say for their priorities (ministry of oil)?
I just wonder in the history of the world has there ever been a war judged on just the first 3 weeks as Jay Tea and other conservatives would like to do? Has there ever been a President that announced Mission Accomplished BEFORE the war was over other than George Bush? When we stormed the beaches at Normandy did the President get on the radio the next day and declare victory? Please somebody let a brutha know?
The more you try to explain away George Bush putting on a flight suit and landing on a ship with a banner blazing “Mission Accomplished” hanging for all the world to see the more you discredit yourself. Better to accept that Bush screwed the pooch and move on than keep showing your slip.
Jay, let me say this: I appreciate your cautious but congratulatory words about Obama’s handling of the pirate situation. You clearly do not like Obama at all, and it’s not easy to say much of anything nice about someone you dislike. So kudos there.
That said, I do wish you hadn’t felt the need to work in a poorly considered defense of the Bush White House’s handling of the Iraq War. If what you’re trying to say is that the military executed the invasion itself very well, I agree with you to a point. I say “to a point” because the Iraq military was so beaten down that I’d have been shocked if our troops couldn’t have rolled them even if things were very poorly executed.
I’m disappointed because praising the invasion itself is like giving someone an A in a class for passing the first quiz and failing the rest. The poor decisions started pretty quickly in Iraq, by not having a strategy to prevent looting and disbanding the Iraqi military without considering what the blowback from that would be.
So if you’re praising the actual Troops Go In And Blow Shit Up part of the war, I agree that our military did its job very, very well. But frankly, if I’m grading Obama’s performance with the military on the George W. Bush scale, that probably means he’s failed miserably.
Conservatives are able to somehow praise George W. Bush’s invasion of Iraq by separating it into arbitrary segments. In their version of reality, “the invasion” went well and all the later unpleasantness is magically forgotten. And the reality is that even the invasion itself was a mess – the supply lines were nearly destroyed by sand storms, Iraqi antiquities were never secured (the Bush plan was, shocker, more interested in protecting oil fields) – this of course was a key element in preceding the anarchy and death that was to follow.
It’s a lot like the “there have been no attacks since 9/11″ which ignores 9/11 itself, anthrax attacks, and attacks on US interests and allies like Bali and London.
Its conservative logic at its finest: Screwy, untrue, and diseased.
Jay Tea does the classic argumentation technique of ignoring contradictory evidence in order not to address the failures of his argument(s).
This technique has been mastered by the right wing: show them a mountain of evidence and they will complain about the how that mountain of evidence blocks their view.
It was the cigarette/nicotine industry that first mastered the distraction techniques in the US. It was further refined through the Exxon warping of peer reviewed climate science. The Iraq War was definitely the right wing’s crowning ‘achievement’ of the “BIG LIE.”
The right wing’s point is to distract from the issue with irrelevant half-truths.
So, pathological liar Jay Tea asserts that any evidence that doesn’t support his fantasy is “all irrelevant” and then Jay Tea changes the subject.
Instead of looking at the entire history of the Republican’s Iraq War, a war that has still not been “won” until no more American troops are being killed and the vast bulk of American troops aren’t required to be there, Jay Tea and his right wing liars claim that the “war” was just those two weeks that it took to sit on Baghdad, Iraq’s capital.
And that accomplishment is arguably due to the previous Bush I and even the Clinton administrations. Clinton bombed the crap out of Saddam’s forces. Every time Saddam did something stupid, several Iraqi military facilities were bombed. And Saddam did a lot of stupid things so got a lot his mil-toys got bombed by Clinton. Saddam’s conventional forces were slaughtered under Bush I.
That’s not to give Bush I much credit. The elder Bush I subsequently (after the Gulf War) allowed Saddam to butcher the Kurds living in northern Iraq. Elder Bush I even allowed Saddam limited use of his aircraft to attack the Kurds.
Still, between Bush I’s annihilation of Saddam’s conventional forces and Clinton’s destruction of Saddam’s mechanical armaments, all of that damage left Saddam an easy tin pot dictator to knock down.
Nonetheless, Saddam specifically didn’t directly confront the US military. Instead, Saddam went into hiding, leaving instructions to his fanatic backers to fight a long-term insurgency. That insurgency is still causing problems, mostly by interfering with the required political solution to end the war.
Still, the only massive “threat” that Saddam could have immediately posed at the start of the Iraq War was using his fantasy Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD). Anyone remember the “red line” around Baghdad, Iraq that was supposed to trigger the fantasy WMD attacks?
But Saddam didn’t have WMD, it was a lie cooked up by the Republicans (Cheney, Feith, Addington, Rumsfeld, et al) and pushed by the neo-con-artists.
Jay Tea shows just how stupid and reckless and deceitful the right wing military “mind” is. They start a war and after the first battle they declare “Mission Accomplished.”
After dozens of battles the right wing kept declaring “victory.” It was the lowest form of propaganda and war sloganeering imaginable. It never took into account the realities on the ground.
Jay Tea and his fellow neo-con artist chickenhawk coward friends think that “war” is like playing “capture the flag,” the “flag” being the capital. Anyone paying attention the last half-dozen years knows better. But Jay Tea’s con artist friends are only trying to sucker those suckers and fanatics that comprise the bulk of Repubican voters.
Jay Tea, many in this thread think that showing you evidence and facts will change your mind. But your function on the right is to distort the evidence and lie about the facts.
Still, it’s important to correct your falsehoods, it’s those lies that murdered 4,273 of our American neighbors (and countless thousands of Iraqi’s).
In my eyes Jay Tea, you are nothing more than a war criminal. Certainly you’ve excused enough of them.
there’s a picture of the Battle of Mogadishu.
Just remember who was crying about “cutting and running” back then.
Hint: It wasn’t Congressional Democrats.
OK, so let me get this straight. Obama uses force and that’s a good thing. Bush used diplomacy and that’s a bad thing.
Mind you, I think the recent pirate situation was handled correctly. I’m just taking issue, given how often you’ve criticized Bush for being trigger happy and praised Obama for being an adult who uses diplomacy, with your linking to an incident where Bush used diplomacy to get 24 soldiers back unharmed as if that was a bad thing.
I was thinking about this story this morning: how frakking hard must it be to be a sniper on a ship, trying to hit a target on another boat?
Serious skill.
Jay Tea: Three cheers for the military Obama inherited.
So the military does well, and it’s a military Obama inherited.
But when the economy does badly, it isn’t a problem he inherited?
Clinton’s not taking Al Qaeda seriously at all —
Call.
Jay Tea: I repeat: the invasion of Iraq was executed brilliantly.
In other words: The kickoff was executed brilliantly. And, no, we don’t need to pay any attention to the rest of the game.
Jay Tea: First, he led his crew in defeating the pirates, then offered himself as hostage for their safety, then managed to escape captivity TWICE, the second time giving the Navy the opportunity to take out the pirates
With all due respect to Captain Phillips, he didn’t escape even once. He bravely TRIED to swim away but was unsuccessful in escaping. And the second time he was sitting in the boat with a gun to his back when the snipers took out the pirates. An odd definition of “escape”.
Jay, why do you hate the truth so much?
Obama did the right thing here. We can only hope he maintains his resolve.
Has there ever been any indication that he would not?
Ace of Spades: “As for Obama’s role in this, it seems it was neither heroic nor stupid.
True. It was refreshingly Presidential.
Crusty Dem: [JT's] heroes were the underpants gnomes behind the stupidity:
1) Invade Iraq
2) ????
3) Permanent republican majority
Esactly so. Planning has to be a bit more than something like this:
Bush used diplomacy and that’s a bad thing.
Well, yeah, because he sucks at it.
Geez, and I thought Strowbridge was a major asshole. News, you take the cake.
I’m a “war criminal?” If you ask half the people here, I’m too much of a coward to actually participate in a war, so I can’t commit war crimes that way.
Also, your own link says “causes to be committed.” I’m a nobody sitting at a keyboard, exercising my 1st Amendment rights. I have absolutely no authority, no power, no clout.
And you want to throw me in prison for speaking my opinion? Well, in for a penny, in for a pound:
Go fuck yourself with a rusty chainsaw, News, you sanctimonious, fascist asswipe. And if you’re worried about infections, wash the wounds with rubbing alcohol — I’ll be glad to send you a gallon.
fafaroo, I endorsed sending a 16-year-old back home, without a trial for his alleged crimes. No trial, no punishment, just using him as a messenger. What do you find heinous about keeping a 16-year-old boy who was apparently trying to defect out of the courts?
But back to the core of this whole story, which everyone is so eager to overlook: the initial reports said that Captain Phillips DID get overboard a second time, and that was what triggered the rescue; if later reports have corrected that (and I haven’t had a chance to check out that particular detail), then I stand corrected. Regardless, his character and resolve were key in this situation being resolved so satisfactorily.
Kudos to President Obama. He handled this particular Somali problem far, far better than President Clinton handled his.
J.
Seriously, y’all, let’s give Jay a big hand for giving credit where it’s due.
Duros62 brings up a good point, it was Republicans who wanted to cut and run from Somalia during Clinton’s presidency.
Here’s a youtube video where Republican McCain demanded that Clinton get out of Somalia in 1993.
The Republican Party’s leadership: Duplicitous hypocrites.
SDM: Bush used diplomacy and that’s a bad thing.
Duros: Well, yeah, because he sucks at it.
This is the “no matter what he does he’s wrong” mentality that we complain about in the right. No need to show the left is equally adept at it.
Jay Tea: I’m a “war criminal?” If you ask half the people here, I’m too much of a coward to actually participate in a war, so I can’t commit war crimes that way.
As are Bush and Cheney, but it didn’t seem to stop them.
This is too much: a youtube video of Republican McCain being asked about his demand that Clinton get out of Somalia in 1993 which the interviewer notes was followed up by Republican McCain claiming that, doing what McCain demanded, Osama bin Laden was encouraged to see America as weak.
The Republican Party’s leadership: Duplicitous hypocrites.
Jay Tea says: “Go fuck yourself with a rusty chainsaw, News, you sanctimonious, fascist asswipe. And if you’re worried about infections, wash the wounds with rubbing alcohol — I’ll be glad to send you a gallon.”
Which illustrates the kind of sadistic criminal acts supported by the right wing these days.
By right winger Jay Tea’s standards, when Republican henchmen choreographed torture they were only exercising their 1st Amendment right to free speech.
No wonder you work for that psychopath Norman Podhoretz. But, hey, Jay Tea, you’re just following orders, right?
The Republican Party’s leadership: Sociopathic sadists.
By the way, Jay Tea, the Republicans allowing corporations to control the government is the definition of Mussolini’s fascism: the combination of corporations and the government.
You’re doing what’s called “projecting,” the assumption that who you are is what other people are.
Many on the right wing have been supporting a proto-fascist movement for decades. Clearly that includes you.
For the record, Jay Tea, at no point was it suggested that you don’t have the right to say any crazy thing you want.
Pointing out what you are saying and pointing out the consequences of what you are saying isn’t censorship.
In fact, the more you exercise your free speech here the more people have the opportunity to show how intellectually corrupt the right wing has become.
Hopefully those on the right that have true faith or have just been conned by neo-con-artists like yourself will eventually be able to see through your deceptions and recognize that you are a sadistic, warped, sociopath who would continue telling the “big lie” even after repeatedly being revealed as a fraud.
fafaroo, I endorsed sending a 16-year-old back home, without a trial for his alleged crimes. No trial, no punishment, just using him as a messenger. What do you find heinous about keeping a 16-year-old boy who was apparently trying to defect out of the courts?
Jay Tea here exhibits the right’s wonderful facility with euphemisim:”Just use him as a messenger.”
Jay Tea, you suggested that, instead of following the rule of law, that we try to achieve our desired ends by using fear and intimidation on a 16 year old kid. As you wrote:
Don’t be a fuckwit by pretending for one second that you had the well-being of this kid in mind at all by trying to keep him “out of the courts.” Please have the courage of your idiocy, thank you.
“The Republicans “micromanaged” America’s military for eight solid years.”
My God, Where to start, From start to finish an ideological driven rant! After hitting a few links I see that you get your info filtered from one site mainly so that could account for it.
I had problems with the execution of the assault, Intially the fact that at the 11th hour Turkey declined to let the 4th ID attack form the north was a bitter blow. We lost the hammer and anvil attack on the country and allowd the enemy a path of escape north.
The fact that the Iraq armed forces were disolved was a blunder it could have been stabilized by just eliminating the revolutionary command council and the republican guard.
But warfare is just that unpredictable the outcome is determined by the adjustments you make on the fly and the information you obtain to make those adjustments.
Torture? Cry all you want I would have waterboarded everyone of those murderous bastards to obtain every last piece of info possible. They opened this dance.
Move aside if if You are too blinded by ideological hatred to see that those idiots are the greatest threat We face today!
I don’t buy into the whole line of bullshit that it’s our fault either.
“Also, Clinton was being hounded by your buddy right wing extremists over his personal life throughout his Presidency. Republicans even accused him of making up the terrorist threat. When Clinton responded to the terrorist threat with force the Republicans accused him of ‘wagging the dog.’”
Please…Are you kidding me, No matter what your politics were, George Bush was treated with the upmost contempt for six years and was attacked for everything on a daily basis. I believe that whats called “a false equivalency”. And we know where those go.
“BTW, where’s the record of Commentary Magazine making a profit, is it a right wing welfare recipient? The propaganda toy for a wealthy right winger by chance?”
Is that like left wing bloggers doin the pirate thing to the Dems http://interested-participant.blogspot.com/2009/04/liberal-bloggers-want-bailout-sorta-it.html
“it was NOT micromanaged out of the White House
Had they even managed it a little bit, 4000 Americans might not be six feet under now. It takes an amazingly stupid person to try and pretend like George W. Bush didn’t kick our military in the balls for 8 years.”
Vietnam was the epitomy of micro-management and prolonged that conflict by years. There is no comparison here. The rest of your comment is just meaningless vitriole. but it is in line with the new direction the Democrat party has taken. We used to act like adults now we are nothing more than spoiled children . i see the term “Sociopathic sadists” being bandied about, correct! Decribes the left perfectly and they are dragging the rest of the party to destruction with it.
Here’s some more historical background of Republicans demanding that America ‘cut and run’ from Somalia.
Here is a compilation of Republican speeches in 1993 demanding that America ‘cut and run’ from Somalia.
“JerseyGeorge,” when the 4th ID was refused passage through Turkey it was because Republican President Bush had macro-mis-managed the lead up to the Iraq War in ways that freaked Turkish leaders.
Republican President Bush II was/is a lousy diplomat. Yet, even while his father, Bush I, was a better diplomat, it was Republican President Bush I’s failure with Iraq that created the Kurdish disasters that had Turkey still freaked out over a decade later.
Because of a combination of failures over both Republican President Bush I and Bush II, the pincer attack from the North and South had to be scraped.
Even after taking Baghdad, it was political interference by the Republican leadership that continued to make and create unnecessary problems. It was worse than a “blunder” to allow the Republican political appointee to make the decision of disbanding the Iraqi armed forces. It was a crucial military error of strategic proportions. It was also something that was done without even discussing it with America’s professional military leaders.
“JerseyGeorge,” when you support torture you create conditions that endanger American military forces.
Rationalize torture any way you want but that means that you’ve lost the high ground. What you do to the “other” will be done to ours. Even General George Washington understood that. Washington spoke out against torture and not only retained the high ground, he even earned the respect of some of the British troops.
Torture isn’t about “those murderous bastards” you refer to, it’s about OUR AMERICAN TROOPS. You don’t torture the bad guys so you can demand that they don’t torture OUR AMERICAN TROOPS.
“JerseyGeorge,” when you bring up Viet Nam, you do realize that had Republican McCain been in charge we would still be fighting in Viet Nam, right? As it is, Republican Nixon “cut and ran” from Viet Nam and now Nike has sweatshop factories there that are making them billions.
And “JerseyGeorge,” when you advocate TORTURE and then complain about “vitriol” (words) like calling SOMEONE WHO ADVOCATES TORTURE A “SOCIOPATHIC SADIST” you clearly are not thinking about what you are saying.
TORTURE IS SOCIOPATHIC SADISM. Worse, TORTURE IS TERRORISM on a very personal level.
So when you advocate for torture, “JerseyGeorge,” think about what it reveals about you. And think about how you endanger American troops with that advocacy of sadism.
Why do you hate American troops, “JerseyGeorge?”
As for your link about “advertising,” what do you think millions and millions of free advertising dollars from Murdoch’s FOX Republican propaganda infotainment television is? And what about the corporate lobbyist money paying for tea bagger parties?
And moreover, did you know that the American Tea Party was a protest AGAINST corporate tax breaks? Tea baggers don’t understand history or the contemporary meaning of “tea bagging.”
McCain’s a perfect example of torture’s failure: McCain was tortured by the Viet Cong and what they got out of him was a list of the strategic assets of his favorite football team.
And what did the Republican sadists who authorized torture get? A list of false intelligence that cost millions to run down and debunk.
Beyond torture being sadism (and terrorism on a personal level), torture is a bad military tactic because it produces bad intelligence.
And worse, strategically torture increases militant radicalization of potential allies and it also has severe consequences for American troops who may be captured.
Poor teabaggers were just getting started winding up an “Obama is soft on pirates!” meme when this goes and happens.
News, you might have heard about a little incident recently where the President of the United States fired the CEO of a privately-held company. How does that fit in with your statement?
Oh, and the reason why Republicans wanted the US OUT of Somalia before the Blackhawk Down incident was that they didn’t think that Clinton had any business sending them IN in the first place. He sent in SEALS and an invasion force to deliver food — then decided to wage war against the warlords. He also allowed CNN and other media to videotape the SEALS landing, meeting them on the beaches with spotlights in the dead of night. It was one of the most appalling things Clinton did as president.
Oh, and News, lumping me in with Bush and Cheney? I’ve never even stood for office, sought or held any government position. (Well, I once applied for a job with a city over a decade ago, but that went nowhere.) I have no authority to order anything, and haven’t even tried. And the particulars of the threat? I was just trying to emulate Strowbridge, with an insult based on a line from the black comedy classic “Heathers.”
Geez… I praise Obama for his actions here, I join you in condemning Obama for his opposition to gay marriage… and I STILL get roundly criticized. There’s just no pleasing some people.
Good thing that I’d take your approval as a sign that I was seriously in the wrong…
J.
fired the CEO of a privately-held company
A “privately held company” almost totally owned by US taxpayers because said brilliant private enterprise couldn’t run their business.
News, you might have heard about a little incident recently where the President of the United States fired the CEO of a privately-held company. How does that fit in with your statement?
Not at all.
Now, if the CEO had fired the President, you might have a point.
JerseyGeorge: But warfare is just that unpredictable the outcome is determined by the adjustments you make on the fly and the information you obtain to make those adjustments.
That does not absolve anyone in the slightest for failing to plan at the beginning, or from disregarding the advice from the military experts.
JerseyGeorge: Torture? Cry all you want I would have waterboarded everyone of those murderous bastards to obtain every last piece of info possible.
And when the torture doesn’t stop with the “murderous bastards”? How many people in Abu Garaib had useful intell? And how do you know who the murderuous bastards are? Anyone who you think just might be? That’s worked out really well.
JerseyGeorge: Move aside if if You are too blinded by ideological hatred to see that those idiots are the greatest threat We face today!
I could say exactly the same thing. And “those idiots” I’d point to would be folks inside of our own government and with radio/TV programs.
It’s like an old Twilight Zone episode. Do one massive attack and watch us tear ourselves apart in panicked response. Moral authority? Washed down the waterboard. Civil liberties? Who needs ‘em? We’ve got illegal wiretaps. Rule of law? Sure, once we finish politicizing the Justice Department. Checks and balances, a government responsive to the people? That’s what signing statements are for.
JerseyGeorge: No matter what your politics were, George Bush was treated with the upmost contempt for six years and was attacked for everything on a daily basis.
Ever consider why? In your opinion, didn’t the guy ever make a mistake?
JerseyGeorge: Vietnam was the epitomy of micro-management and prolonged that conflict by years. There is no comparison here.
I agree. After all “that whats called “a false equivalency”. And we know where those go.” The rest of your comment is just meaningless vitriol.
Jay Tea: you might have heard about a little incident recently where the President of the United States fired the CEO of a privately-held company
And just how did he manage to do that, Jay? Did Wagoner work for some private company that the government had no involvement with? Did Obama just call Wagoner into his office and tell him he has fired?
Jay, why do you hate the truth so much?
Sean, the Obama administration called up Wagoner and said that as long as he was in charge, there would be no more federal money. His head, metaphorically, was the price of any more assistance. Look up “shakedown.”
J.
Jay Tea: Sean, the Obama administration called up Wagoner and said that as long as he was in charge, there would be no more federal money. His head, metaphorically, was the price of any more assistance. Look up “shakedown.”
Ah, so you’re admitting that contrary to your previous statement he wasn’t fired.
Rather, refused to invest any more money unless assured that the person who had been in charge while GM headed down the tubes wouldn’t be in charge any more. Sounds pretty typical of responsible investors to me.
“Shakedown:” when a corporation like AIG can look the American tax payers in the eye and say “Give us $.16 of a TRILLION DOLLARS or we will kill your economy. Oh, and we want bonuses on top of that.”
Sean D. Martin makes a good point, GM’s Rick Wagoner wasn’t fired, your assertion that Wagoner was fired, Jay Tea, was false.
Weirder, Jay Tea, what you are talking about is looking at it from a fascist perspective. You are assuming that the CORPORATION that is receiving taxpayer dollars is the one making the decisions.
In traditional capitalism (not your proto-corporatist fantasy world), the INVESTOR, in this case the taxpayer, is the one making the decisions.
True, under Republican President Bush, the corporations were making the decisions even while Republican Bush and his cronies were handing those corporations billions and billions and billions of taxpayer dollars without any oversight or accountability.
Somehow right wingers didn’t call THAT out* for what it was: corporatism (proto-fascism).
But when Obama makes a little noise that any corporation taking taxpayer dollars might have some oversight, somehow in your Through the Looking Glass world that’s, what?
In capitalist world that’s what’s called responsible investing and buying ownership.
I’ll grant you this, Republican President Bush’s corporatist policies don’t look much different than that being meted out by Geithner and Summers and some of Obama’s other right of center economists.
That’s been a pretty shrill complaint by the left. See: Robert Reich, Paul Krugman, Dean Baker, Brad DeLong, amongst multiple other econ bloggers.
*Lonely libertarian Ron Paul might have called it out, he occasionally surprises me.