Alert the NRA.
For over a year, ABC News has followed Omar Samaha on a very personal quest to hold those lawmakers to their word. Omar’s sister Reema was one of 32 shot and killed at Virginia Tech. We went with Omar to a gun show in Richmond, Va. — one of hundreds held every weekend across the state of Virginia and the country. We gave Samaha $5,000 and one hour to see how many guns he could buy, and how many questions he would be asked.
By 9:30 in the morning, the parking lot was already packed full of cars. Groups of men, couples and even families with children in tow streamed toward the quickly growing line out front. Samaha, 25, joined the crowds and while waiting on line, he was approached by a seller and given the opportunity to make a quick purchase. He bought a Glock handgun, with no background check, and no questions asked.
Cognitive dissonance. How else do the gun nuts keep going?
From Collateral:
“Max: You killed him?”
“Vincent: No, I shot him. Bullets and the fall killed him.”
Sigh…
Let me explain it to you:
1) The phrase “gun show loophole” implies that the law treats gun sales at gun shows differently from gun sales that take place in other places.
2) The laws do not see any difference between a gun sale at a gun show and a gun sale at any other place.
3) The law says that licensed dealers must perform a background check on any gun they sell, no matter where it takes place — even at a gun show.
4) The law says that a private individual need not perform a background check when they sell a gun, no matter where it takes place — even at a gun show.
5) The gun show merely allows non-dealers who want to sell guns to readily find buyers, and vice versa.
6) The psycho who committed the Virginia Tech massacre broke the law by getting his guns, and violated a clearly-marked “Gun Free Zone” on the campus. Precisely how will more laws stop him?
7) You didn’t bring up this quote, but it’s just SO stupid that it screams to be addressed:
Hmm… could it be because it was a scene filled with even more heavily-armed people who have an extreme affinity and — likely — considerable skill with those weapons?
No, it’s far more likely that had Mr. Samaha chosen to go on a rampage, he would have left the gun show quietly and discreetly with his new arsenal and headed for the nearest “gun-free zone” where he would be able to wreak his havoc without fear of anyone shooting back.
Damn, I might just need to turn this into a full-blown article… thanks for the tip, Oliver!
J.
“could it be because it was a scene filled with even more heavily-armed people who have an extreme affinity and — likely — considerable skill with those weapons?”
Ah yes, the armed society, our Great White Hope to combat violence.
GLV, apparently these gun shows are filled with borderline psychos just itching to go postal. Tell me, how many shooting sprees have taken place at those gun shows, versus how many have taken place at “gun-free zones?”
I guarantee for any you might find, I’ll cite at least three from “gun-free zones.”
J.
Yes, college and high school students should be armed! It’s the only way!
Also, it’s more like people choose “gun-free zones” because it’s where they’ve been. Shockingly, high school and college students who decide to shoot up a place are going to choose a……high school and/or college campus!
Thanks, J, for that very persuasive argument as to why it’s totally fine for anyone to show up at a gun show and arm themselves to the teeth. I don’t see how anything could go wrong (ever) with that.
Let’s find all the people who want to carry guns with them at all times, give them a city and see what happens. I’m honestly curious.
But There Is No Gun Show Loophole
There isn’t.
Yes, college and high school students should be armed! It’s the only way!
And exactly how many campus shootings have their been on Utah campuses where students there are allow to carry?
Thanks, J, for that very persuasive argument as to why it’s totally fine for anyone to show up at a gun show and arm themselves to the teeth. I don’t see how anything could go wrong (ever) with that.
Perhaps you could point everybody to the statistics showing just how many people commit crimes that purchased guns through private sales at gun shows. I mean, it should be so easy.
I won’t hold my breath.
No, it’s far more likely that had Mr. Samaha chosen to go on a rampage, he would have left the gun show quietly and discreetly with his new arsenal and headed for the nearest “gun-free zone” where he would be able to wreak his havoc without fear of anyone shooting back.
Thats interesting because the shooter in Pittsburgh last week knew the cops were coming and instead of going to look for a “gun free zone” he stayed home and set up shop to ambush and kill those officers and then he held the rest of the force at bay for hours. Kinda ruins your whole argument doesn’t it?
Perhaps you could point everybody to the statistics showing just how many people commit crimes that purchased guns through private sales at gun shows. I mean, it should be so easy.
So it’s just peachy that any jagoff can just show up and arm themselves to the Klebold, no questions asked? Well, OK then. Glad we cleared that up.
There isn’t.
Wait, you mean this example is what The Kids like to call a feature, not a bug? Yikes!
And exactly how many campus shootings have their been on Utah campuses where students there are allow to carry?
The same number of times you’ve been raped by unicorns ever since I cast a magical “anti-unicorn rape” spell on you in 2004. You’re welcome.
Jesus Christ, are you actually this stupid?
Perhaps you could point everybody to the statistics showing just how many people commit crimes that purchased guns through private sales at gun shows. I mean, it should be so easy.
You mean the private sales that don’t require records to be kept. You know, the gun show loophole.
Jesus Christ, you are actually this stupid.
Ed, thanks. You provided a response along the lines I was expecting.
Anybody else?
Precisely how will more laws stop him”
Why stop there? Arm Middle Schoolers and Elementary Schoolers! Arm teachers and all public places. I swear the paranoia and violence fetish of the right is unquenchable. Of course what Jay etc… are conjecturing that Gun Free Zones don’t work because….somebody actually ignored the law! Don’t let the fact when a crime isn’t commited, laws aren’t helping. So I guess the answer is LESS law. I really want to know the other sollution. Some how making something that’s sole capability is killing more accesabile makes me safer how?
Look folks we all know the optimal crime situation was the old west. Silly liberals. Until every American city is Tombstone, we’ve failed.
Let’s see… psycho goes on shooting rampage at VA Tech, a gun-free zone, kills over 30 before killing himself.
Psycho goes on shooting rampage at a mall in Omaha, kills ten.
Psycho goes on shooting rampage in a church where the congregation has armed volunteer security guards? 1 killed before shooter is shot and stopped by volunteer security guard.
Psycho goes on shooting rampage at Appalachian School of Law? Stopped by fellow students, two of whom get their own guns from their vehicles and help subdue him.
Psycho goes on shooting rampage at gun show after buying a shitload of guns and can’t control himself? Oh, yeah, never happened.
God save us from allowing responsible adults from acting in a responsible fashion…
J.
August J. Pollack wins a cookie. Spank.
Oh, yeah, never happened.
Lets assume, in some strange way, this is true. Why don’t we get rid of the possibility of it ever happening? It’s like someone saying “I’ve never been in a car accident so I won’t put on a seat belt!”. Come on.
Oliver,
The only answer to violence is MORE violence. Thier blood thirsty desire of using violence trickles down to much of the cons thinking. Prevention is for pussies!
Oh and a glass of milk for August J. Pollack to go along with that cookie.
August, I know that because you draw stupid cartoons for a living that it doesn’t require much of use of that little brain you have. But I’ll indulge your idiocy for a second.
The implication was that college students being armed was just going to set up mass shootings on regular basis. Well it has been legal for Utah college students (9 public ones in all) to carry on campus for the last three years. It’s been legal to carry at Colorado State University since 1995 and Blue Ridge Community College (VA) since 1995. Guess what? No shootings, no gun accidents, suicides or gun thefts. So suck it, Trebek.
You mean the private sales that don’t require records to be kept. You know, the gun show loophole.
Let’s feed feeble mind a little more. Referring to a “gun-show loophole” is a deliberate and false attempt to imply that individuals can sell or buy guns freely and without background checks only at gun shows when they can in fact, do so in many places. As such, requiring that background checks be performed on private gun sales at gun shows (when according to FBI statistics, over NINETY EIGHT PERCENT of crimes committed with guns are acquired outside of gun shows) would do very little to prevent crime. In addition, the term also implies that a person with a long criminal history can walk into a gun show and LEGALLY purchase a firearm when that is not true. If a person prohibited by law to own or possess a firearm, buys at a gun show from a private seller, he is then committing a host of state and federal crimes.
So put down the crayons, remove your head from your ass and learn a little before you start calling other people stupid.
Why don’t we get rid of the possibility of it ever happening? It’s like someone saying “I’ve never been in a car accident so I won’t put on a seat belt!”. Come on.
Yes, but using your methods, the best thing to do with cars is to set a universal speed limit of 15mph on all roads and highways. 38,000 people last year were killed in motor vehicle accidents. Why not get rid of the possibility of it ever happening?
Ed, thanks. You provided a response along the lines I was expecting.
No problem. I had no idea you actually enjoyed having your ass handed to you.
Well it has been legal for Utah college students (9 public ones in all) to carry on campus for the last three years. It’s been legal to carry at Colorado State University since 1995 and Blue Ridge Community College (VA) since 1995. Guess what? No shootings, no gun accidents, suicides or gun thefts. So suck it, Trebek.
This may be the most meaningless compilation of statistics leading to an utterly random conclusion i have ever read.
August, I know that because you draw stupid cartoons for a living that it doesn’t require much of use of that little brain you have. But I’ll indulge your idiocy for a second.
so cartoons are inherently “stupid”. Wow, you’re really an elitist asshole.
Let’s feed feeble mind a little more. Referring to a “gun-show loophole” is a deliberate and false attempt to imply that individuals can sell or buy guns freely and without background checks only at gun shows when they can in fact, do so in many places.
So you wouldn’t have a problem with calling it the “Unlicensed sale loophole”?
Jay, if we allowed high school and middle schoolers to carry guns like you want to, bullying is going to take a far uglier turn.
This may be the most meaningless compilation of statistics leading to an utterly random conclusion i have ever read.
Right. So I am just imagining all of the dire predictions about what could happen if college students are allowed to carry on campus. I must not have heard those statements being made.
Sorry about that.
so cartoons are inherently “stupid”. Wow, you’re really an elitist asshole
No, I love a good cartoon strip. I have collections of ‘The Far Side’ and ‘Calvin and Hobbes’
So you wouldn’t have a problem with calling it the “Unlicensed sale loophole”?
No. Just effing say what people want: “We want background checks on ALL GUN SALES, both private and through a dealer.” That’s what the gun control lobby wants. Why don’t they just say it?
Jay, if we allowed high school and middle schoolers to carry guns like you want to, bullying is going to take a far uglier turn.
I’m sorry, but where did I say I wanted high school and middle school students to carry?
I must not have heard those statements being made.
Well, since you seem to be keeping extensive records on the dire “rogue cop” problem facing the nation, I have no doubt that you have an equally thick file of articles on every other thing that seems to keep you up at night clutching your revolver.
And I’ll just throw out there that at least in the case of Utah it’s all the damn anti-depressants they take in that state which keeps them so placid. Not the guns.
Well, since you seem to be keeping extensive records on the dire “rogue cop” problem facing the nation, I have no doubt that you have an equally thick file of articles on every other thing that seems to keep you up at night clutching your revolver.
You asked a question. I answered it. I made to statements about any “rogue cop” problem. Shoveling more of your bullshit I see.
Typical.
“I made no statements” not “I made to statements”
Why don’t they just say it?
And why is requiring this such a big deal?
Oh right, because background checks would only make easier for FEMA to round up every gun owner in the country and put them in camps for opposing Supreme Leader Obama.
Rock on, dude.
I answered it.
Clearly I didn’t see your answer as sufficient.
Actually, Jay, there was a mass shooting involving a rogue cop.
The New Life Church shooting.
The shooter was stopped by Jeanne Assam, a former cop who was fired for misconduct. The “rogue cop” moved away and started her life over. After the first shooting, she had a premonition that her church would be targeted next. She and a few other members of the congregation formed an impromptu security force — some of them armed with their own guns, others unarmed — and patrolled their church the morning the shooter came calling. Assam — the “rogue cop” — was the second to confront him — the first one froze. Assam didn’t. She shot and wounded him, and he then took his own life.
But all that could have been averted if the Church had simply declared itself a “gun-free zone.” Assam and her fellow congregants could have simply relaxed and worshipped in peace, safe in the knowledge that the killer would see the “gun-free zone” signs and gone elsewhere.
J.
And why is requiring this such a big deal?
Why is it necessary?
Clearly I didn’t see your answer as sufficient.
You asked a yes or no question dude.
Actually, Jay, there was a mass shooting involving a rogue cop.
Jay Tea seems to think he knows what we’re talking about.
You asked a yes or no question dude.
I did?
Why is it necessary?
Well for starters to keep people who aren’t legally allowed to buy guns from buying guns.
That’s like asking why is it necessary for liquor stores to card people.
I did?
Yes, you did.
Well for starters to keep people who aren’t legally allowed to buy guns from buying guns.
So implementing an expensive, overly intrusive federal policy (I know my nephew doesn’t have a criminal record, yet if I were to sell him a .22 rifle, I’d have to wait for him to get a background check. That makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. Kind of like asking a 60 year old man for identification at a liquor store) is necessary despite the fact that hardly any crimes are committed as a result of purchases made through private sales.
You defended the problem with a lack of statistics on gun show sales by asking why there weren’t any statistics on gun show sales. I’m afraid you’re far past a level where I can even explain cartoons to you without you accidentally pissing yourself.
I’m sorry, but where did I say I wanted high school and middle school students to carry?
Didn’t have a problem with it an hour ago.
Yes, but using your methods, the best thing to do with cars is to set a universal speed limit of 15mph on all roads and highways.
You are aware that we have speed limits, right?
So implementing an expensive, overly intrusive federal policy (I know my nephew doesn’t have a criminal record, yet if I were to sell him a .22 rifle, I’d have to wait for him to get a background check. That makes a whole hell of a lot of sense. Kind of like asking a 60 year old man for identification at a liquor store) is necessary despite the fact that hardly any crimes are committed as a result of purchases made through private sales.
Yes.
For Jay:
A February 1999 report by the ATF found approximately 10 percent of the guns used in crimes by juveniles and children were sold at gun shows and flea markets.
That said, I doubt anything we do is going to “fix” the problem. There’s a tremendous number of guns in this country and they’re nearly freely available from any number of legal and illegal sources. Personally, I’d like to see some restrictions, some required training (if for no other reason than decreasing accidents), some tracking, etc, but I think it’s a pipe dream to think that it’ll really impact crime in a nation with ~300,000,000 guns.
You defended the problem with a lack of statistics on gun show sales by asking why there weren’t any statistics on gun show sales.
I hate to rain on your parade of stupidity, but private sales can be traced. Unless of course, private sellers at gun shows are stupid enough to be selling guns they acquired illegally elsewhere. Go away child.
You are aware that we have speed limits, right?
And we do have gun laws right?. Something like 17 thousand federal, state and local ones. Maybe if we started you know, truly enforcing existing laws, calls for closing non-existent loopholes that barely contribute to crime statistics wouldn’t be necessary.
Here’s the deal: We enforce the existing laws (which the NRA will bitch about) and fill in the loopholes because these are weapons that kill people.
I hate to rain on your parade of stupidity, but private sales can be traced.
So, now you’re saying that because private sales of guns can be recorded, that’s why we shouldn’t record private sales of guns. The ones that you said earlier couldn’t be reported, because we don’t report them. I think that might not make sense.
It’s funny how gun-fetishists think the things make up for their very tiny penises.
“we need to stockpile guns so we can kill atf agents”-cons
J.G.Thayer: “Let me explain it to you…”
This from the man who gave us a ‘lessen on the constitution’ that was so flawed it was ripped apart in seconds.
I’m amazed people are taking the time to tear you apart here. After all, given you reputation you will simply run away again.
Jay Caruso: “calls for closing non-existent loopholes”
Private sales are not subject to background checks.
A guy who owns a store, where he has to perform background checks, can buy a table at a gun show and sell guns without a background check.
How is that not a loophole?
Here’s the deal: We enforce the existing laws (which the NRA will bitch about) and fill in the loopholes because these are weapons that kill people.
Ever heard of the Bartley-Fox Law, Oliver? It’s a Massachusetts law that requires enhanced penalties for those who use guns in the commission of a crime. It was passed in the 60’s.
And almost never used since then.
That’s an example of a GOOD gun law. Naturally, it’s never used.
Strowbridge: thanks again for the attention. But I note that you didn’t bother to refute a single thing I said, instead choosing to assail my credibility. It’s almost as if it’s more important to you to put me down instead of “correcting” me. Could it be because you couldn’t find a way to tie the issue into your infamous “Southern Strategy?”
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Strowbridge: thanks again for the attention. But I note that you didn’t bother to refute a single thing I said…”
Cause I did it in my next post. The one I responded to Jay Caruso. Maybe if you read a little further down before posting you would have seen that.
I showed that yes there was a loophole, and why it is called the “Gun Show Loophole.” (Hint: It is used at gun shows.)
Since that was point #1 on your list, I didn’t even bother reading the rest. Seriously.
“Could it be because you couldn’t find a way to tie the issue into your infamous ‘Southern Strategy?’”
Translation: “Waaaahhhhhhh!”
If you don’t want me to call you a racist asshole, stop acting like a racist asshole.
Until then, shut the fuck up, you blubbering baby.
Strowbridge, I was writing my response when you were writing yours. They crossed in the aether; I didn’t ignore it. Look at the time stamps.
As for your “loophole,” that implies that there are separate laws for gun shows versus other places. Despite your blathering and frothing, that simply isn’t the case.
The law treats gun shows just like any other place, any other event. The very same laws apply in the very same way there as anywhere else.
Stick to bullshit accusations of racism, Strowbridge… it’s clearly your niche in life. You suck at that, too, but not as badly as you suck at understanding American gun laws.
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Strowbridge, I was writing my response when you were writing yours. They crossed in the aether; I didn’t ignore it. Look at the time stamps.”
It took you six minutes to type that?
“As for your ‘loophole,’ that implies that there are separate laws for gun shows versus other places. Despite your blathering and frothing, that simply isn’t the case.”
No, you fucking idiot. The law treats ‘private sales’ differently than commercial sales. This is the loop hole. It is named the “Gun Show Loop Hole” because it is taken advantage of at gun shows.
“Stick to bullshit accusations of racism, Strowbridge… it’s clearly your niche in life. You suck at that, too, but not as badly as you suck at understanding American gun laws.”
Clearly. Clearly I suck since I’m kicking you ass in both debates.
By the way, you think the Southern Strategy… what? Doesn’t exist now? Never existed? Not actually racist? What is it? I don’t want to put words in your mouth. I want to know exactly how fucking retarded you are on this matter. I want to know exactly where you fail in this matter.
Hell, maybe you are not racist. Maybe you are just stupid. Incredibly stupid.
Hmm… “I’m not a licensed gun dealer, but I want to sell a gun. If I put an ad in the paper, I don’t have to do a background check on the buyer. But if I go to a gun show and offer it for sale, I don’t have to do a background check, either! I found a loophole!”
That’s like declaring a “highway loophole” on seat belt laws. We don’t have one here in New Hampshire. “Hmm… if I drive down the street to the store, I don’t have to buckle up. But if I get on the highway and zip on down to Manchester, I don’t have to buckle up there, either! Woohoo!”
What do I think the Southern Strategy is? I think it’s your sole excuse for living. It’s like oxygen to you. You’d have almost nothing to say if it had never existed.
Your threshold for “racism” is so low, it’s virtually nonexistent and completely meaningless. Sorry, it’s not a trump card for every argument — and the more you try to use it as such, the less value it has. (It’s actually achieved negative value, and is falling even further.) Look up “dilution” and “the boy who cried wolf.”
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Hmm… ‘I’m not a licensed gun dealer, but I want to sell a gun. If I put an ad in the paper, I don’t have to do a background check on the buyer. But if I go to a gun show and offer it for sale, I don’t have to do a background check, either! I found a loophole!’”
It’s time for you to exercise your second amendment rights on yourself.
“I’m a gun dealer. If I sell a gun in a store, I have to do a background check. If set up a table at a gun show, I don’t have to do background checks.”
It’s a fucking loophole, and you know it.
“What do I think the Southern Strategy is? I think it’s your sole excuse for living.”
I knew you wouldn’t have the guts to answer that question.
But please, keep bringing up the Southern Strategy as often as you can. Please, keep reminding people the GOP is the party of racism. Please, keep reminding everyone that YOU defend racism.
J.G.Thayer: “Your threshold for “racism” is so low, it’s virtually nonexistent and completely meaningless.”
Remember that thread about the picture white water melons on the White House lawn? If I recall correctly, you admitted that was racist, but when I brought up the Southern Strategy you attacked for doing so.
So clearly this has nothing to do with my ‘threshold for racism’. There must be something else at work here.
Personally, I think you are scared to admit the GOP is inherently racist. Racism in the GOP is not a bug, it’s a feature. Racism in the GOP is the natural result of using the Southern Strategy for 40 years.
You are scared to admit that, because then you will have to look at yourself in the mirror and admit that you are also racist.
Ever heard of the Bartley-Fox Law, Oliver? It’s a Massachusetts law that requires enhanced penalties for those who use guns in the commission of a crime. It was passed in the 60’s.
One wonders if you’ve ever heard of it, Jay Tea, as you seem to have no clue what the law does or even when it was passed.
4) The law says that a private individual need not perform a background check when they sell a gun, no matter where it takes place — even at a gun show.
5) The gun show merely allows non-dealers who want to sell guns to readily find buyers, and vice versa.
*sigh* One more time, Jay. I know we’ve gone over this before, but number 4 above is the loophole. Now, perhaps not technically a loophole regarding gun shows, but loopholes in the law nonetheless.
Why you cannot acknowledge that really belies logic.
Let’s find all the people who want to carry guns with them at all times, give them a city and see what happens. I’m honestly curious.
I hear Mogadishu is nice this time of year.
I have two questions:
1) Is there reliable data on how effective background checks are in reducing crime?
2) If the answer to that is yes, and further, that they are effective, is there any reason background checks shouldn’t be required for all gun sales?
I hear Mogadishu is nice this time of year.
We need a Venn diagram of Galters and universal concealed carriers. If the overlap is substantial, you might have something here.
If I buy a car from some guy, I have to register it or it gets towed.
Same should be true for a lethal weapon. Period.
It does not infringe on your 2nd amendment rights in any way.
Perhaps they should be calling it a Gun Show Parking Lot Loophole.
I do like the argument that the problem is that people who arm themselves to the teeth are violating the law only when they go into a “gun free zone” and if they followed the law and respected the “gun free zones” everything would be fine.
The problem is that the gun show crows, the NRA, and the like all oppose the “gun free zones” as gun control and fight the implementation of them like rabid hyenas.
Can’t have it both ways.
We need a Venn diagram of Galters and universal concealed carriers. If the overlap is substantial, you might have something here.
Well, the problem with that is there are no fucking Galters. Just a bunch of crybabies.
“2) If the answer to that is yes, and further, that they are effective, is there any reason background checks shouldn’t be required for all gun sales?”
I think the argument was cost. It’s too high of a cost for an individual who wants to sell a gun.
Here’s the problem…
There’s no limit to the size of your gun collection, so you could have 1000s of guns you buy and sell every year. As long as you call them a collection, you’re fine. As soon as you call them inventory, you need to do background checks.
That’s a loophole. No doubt about it.
The Two Jays are just hung up on the name.
That’s a loophole. No doubt about it.
The Two Jays are just hung up on the name.
To you it’s a bug, to them it’s a feature..
Jay,
You argue that since Utah law allows for students to carry concealed weapons, and that since there have been no campus shootings in Utah, it was the concealed weapons law that prevented campus shootings. Just because event A preceded event B, does not mean A caused B.
By that logic, you can point to a number of states that do not allow concealed weapons, and also did not have campus shootings. Wisconsin does not allow concealed weapons, but there have been no campus shootings in that state. Was the absence of such a law the cause? Or more likely, was it a non-factor.
I can see the value of owning a gun. If a guy working in a gas station in a bad neighborhood wants to protect himself, I would not feel right saying he has no right to protect himself. Here in Illinois, we have had a number of high-profile cases of women who were killed by someone they had a restraining order against. Such women should be allowed to have a gun.
But is it really that much of a burden to treat gun ownership much as we treat car ownership? Is limiting someone to one gun a month that much of a hardship?
It’s amusing that the law and order crowd seems to stand in opposition of most police associations in this matter. Anytime policemen argue for stricter gun laws, the gun lobby goes into overdrive in opposition.
Answering for the other Jay…
You argue that since Utah law allows for students to carry concealed weapons, and that since there have been no campus shootings in Utah, it was the concealed weapons law that prevented campus shootings. Just because event A preceded event B, does not mean A caused B.
Actually, the core principle behind the gun-control advocates is that it is the presence of the gun that presents the danger. That is the theory behind “gun-free zones,” behind increased restrictions on legal gun owners, and the like — that the possession of a gun inherently makes the bearer more dangerous.
The college example my fellow Jay cites is not arguing that the guns prevented shootings, but their presence did NOT result in the owners suddenly going on a shooting spree. The number of guns on the campus was significantly higher than, say, Virginia Tech’s campus — and it was the nominally “gun-free” school that drew the killer.
There’s a simple question at the core of so many of these disputes: who do you trust more — your government, or your fellow citizens?
J.
There’s a simple question at the core of so many of these disputes: who do you trust more — your government, or your fellow citizens?
Another way of putting this is who are you more paranoid of?
Quite frankly, it doesn’t matter who they’re paranoid of, paranoids are the people I least trust to have guns.
and it was the nominally “gun-free” school that drew the killer.
Sure it was, Jay.
There’s a simple question at the core of so many of these disputes: who do you trust more — your government, or your fellow citizens?
Oh, for fuck’s sake.
Yowza:
There’s a simple question at the core of so many of these disputes: who do you trust more — your government, or your fellow citizens?
You know that our government includes American citizens (and not Klingons), right?
Right?
In general I trust my fellow citizens over the government. With the glaring exception of paranoid bed-wetter NRA members. In that case, yes, I trust the government more.
But the larger point remains that government has a right to put reasonable restrictions on gun ownership. Do you get to own a Browning .50 cal? Nope. Far too ridiculous. Can we restrict you to one gun purchase a month? Absolutely. That’s not an unreasonable restriction on responsible gun owners interested in sport and home defense.
But enjoy living in Koo-Koo Krazy Land. Hope the weather’s nice.
J.G.Thayer: “Answering for the other Jay…”
How about you answer my questions. Or did you take four hours to write this post? (That last part was a joke, by the way.)
But back to the serious point. How about you address the obvious loophole, or do you still think it doesn’t exist? Are you still confused over its name?
And what about the Southern Strategy? Is is racist? Is it still in use today? Is it responsible to drawing racist people to the GOP?
“The number of guns on the campus was significantly higher than, say, Virginia Tech’s campus — and it was the nominally ‘gun-free’ school that drew the killer.”
Are you on fucking crack? The guy was a revenge killer; he went to where the people who wronged him were. (Granted, he was nuts, literally, and the wrongs were (mostly) imagined.)
Don’t bring up the Virginia Tech shootings, because it is a textbook example of why gun control is necessary. Crazy people shouldn’t get guns.
Did we get played by J.G.Thayer, again? He was posting her pretty fast and furious while he was floating that, ‘There’s no loohole’ bullshit. But now that that’s shot to hell, I think he’s run away.
No, Strowbridge, I had to pull a double shift at The Day Job. Just got up, and heading out back to work in less than hour. (Colleague’s out with stomach flu — poor bastard. Been there, done that, it’s NEVER fun. You really develop a sense of priorities when your body wants to purge from both directions at once.) Thank you for your concern, however.
So, then, Strowbridge, what would YOUR solution be? Treat all gun sales as if they were being done by a dealer? Require ALL gun sales to subject the buyer to a background check? Who will pay for it? Who will pay for the additional federal employees to perform the checks?
“Hey, Bob, I just bought a new shotgun. Ain’t she a beauty?”
“That’s nice, Ray. What you gonna do with your old one?”
“Hadn’t really thought about it. It’s still a fine gun, but I don’t need two. You wanna buy it?”
“Sure. I’ll give you three hundred bucks for it.”
“It’s worth a bit more, but we’ve been friends all our lives, so it’s a deal. Now let’s go down to the police station and start the paperwork, you pay the fee, and we’ll wait six to eight weeks to get approval. After all, you could be some psycho ex mental patient with seventeen felonies on your record. Hunting season will be over by then, but you’ll be set for next year.”
Oh, and no, Strowbridge, it didn’t take me six minutes to type that response. It took me six minutes to hit reply, start typing, get a phone call, go to the bathroom, finish watching a video, check my e-mail, finish typing, and hit “submit.”
J.
J.G.Thayer: “So, then, Strowbridge, what would YOUR solution be?”
So… does this mean you finally admit there is a loophole?
“Treat all gun sales as if they were being done by a dealer?”
YES!
Make it so you have to be licensed to buy a gun. Getting the license would involve an FBI background check. When you buy a gun, you must register it in your name, which would verify the transaction as well.
“Who will pay for it?”
The person getting the license.
“Who will pay for the additional federal employees to perform the checks?”
The person getting the license.
J.G.Thayer: “‘It’s worth a bit more, but we’ve been friends all our lives, so it’s a deal. Now let’s go down to the police station and start the paperwork, you pay the fee, and we’ll wait six to eight weeks to get approval. After all, you could be some psycho ex mental patient with seventeen felonies on your record. Hunting season will be over by then, but you’ll be set for next year.’”
If you can’t get organized enough to get a gun in time for hunting season, you shouldn’t have a gun. I’m sure fellow hunters would rather not deal with people like that.
Great. Did J.G.Thayer run away, again?
Me: “Great. Did J.G.Thayer run away, again?”
Since he took the time to look up statistics in another thread, a thread was was further down the list, it appears he has run away.