’)When Democrats are in control, the right moves toward the fringe of the militia right – the nationalists, Tim McVeigh, anti-government types. Today it’s Dick Morris on Fox News: “Those crazies in Montana who say, ‘we’re going to kill ATF agents because the UN’s going to take over’ – well, they’re beginning to have a case”
There’s a braintrust.
While I can think of circumstances in which it would be justified to kill ATF agents, the vast majority of them take place in ‘V for Vendetta’ style alternate-universes.
How can anybody watch more than 5 seconds of Dick Morris? The man makes me nauseus. He reminds me of the troll from the movie “Leprechaun”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pICyIt7o4Mk
There is no Republican fringe. The lunatics are firmly in charge of the party.
Just ask Jay or Dennis!
Oh man, don’t you get it Soulite? Barack Obama is asking corporations that have taken billions of taxpayer dollars to change their business practices. 1984 is already here, man!
Also, Morris actually burps (seven seconds into the video) and doesn’t say “excuse me” or anything like that. A lot of class Morris shows in this clip.
They will be surprised by how firmly America rejects their “violent overthrow” fantasies.
They buy all these guns while fantasizing of mowing down liberals in the streets. They REALLY want this to happen but they’re too cowardly to say so.
I’m no doom-sayer, but a dramatic violent outburst explicitly against liberals WILL happen. America’s response will be swift and plain “there is on room in this country for your backward asses”. When they realize just how few and impotent they are, their “movement” will die.
This will happen.
This is why they love guns. They want to kill as many law enforcement agents as possible
Cavuto’s sporting a rug.
I can’t wait till the right wing ‘tards here defend this.
Seriously, where are you fellas? Ten comments and not a peep?
Parthenon: “Seriously, where are you fellas? Ten comments and not a peep?”
I haven’t see a lot of them on this site for the past couple days. I wonder if they found a new site to troll?
Awww…those rightwingers and thier fantasies of violence. Too adorable for words.
I can’t get the video to load, but going by the quote Oliver’s pulled, I think I can guess where this was going:
The ol’ toe-sucker’s mistake was basing his statement on two presumptions about his audience: 1) that they have at least a sixth-grade reading level, and B) they have the slightest modicum of honesty. In other words, he didn’t have Media Matters in mind.
Morris started off by citing the far-right wing paranoid nuts and the standard “excuses” they’ve cited for years for their paranoia. And then he ticked off the several ways in which Obama and the Democrats are pushing for things that bear a very close resemblance to those complaints:
– The essential nationalizing of General Motors, right down to the President firing its CEO.
– The move by the Obama administration to get the US to join the obscenely-misnamed “United Nations Human Rights Commission.” (Check out the current roster, especially which nation holds the chair.)
– The attempt to rewrite existing legal, binding contracts between employers and employees when those employers have accepted federal assistance
– The recent flirtation by Secretary Geithner with a new “global” currency
But let’s just look at the actual quote:
“Those crazies in Montana who say, ‘we’re going to kill ATF agents because the UN’s going to take over’ – well, they’re beginning to have a case”
“Those crazies in Montana” — obviously NOT a ringing endorsement of the people involved.
“‘we’re going to kill ATF agents’” — the ATF has been the bete noire of the crazies ever since Waco, the symbol of brutal, oppressive, violent federal agents.
“‘because the UN’s going to take over’” — as noted, the Obama administration and the Democrats are almost taking the crazies’ list of complaints like a checklist.
“they’re beginning to have a case.” An acknowledgment that for the decades the crazies have been complaining, they’ve been wrong. And not only that, they’re still wrong — they’re only beginning to have a case, they don’t have one yet.
As I said, it’s perfectly clear that Toe-Sucker was NOT endorsing the crazies and their agenda, merely using them as a way of describing what the Obama administration is up to.
Unless you’re stupid, agenda-driven, or both.
J.
– The recent flirtation by Secretary Geithner with a new “global” currency
This is surprising, even for you Mr. Tea.
There was no flirtation. There is no “global” currency. And you should be ashamed of yourself for trafficking in this lunacy.
“And you should be ashamed of yourself for trafficking in this lunacy.”
He should be, but he’s not. He has no shame left, after supporting the GOP for the last 8 years.
J.G.Thayer: “The ol’ toe-sucker’s mistake was basing his statement on two presumptions about his audience: 1) that they have at least a sixth-grade reading level, and B) they have the slightest modicum of honesty. In other words…”
In other words, you were not the target audience.
You make a lot of claims for not having seen the clip.
“As I said, it’s perfectly clear that Toe-Sucker was NOT endorsing the crazies and their agenda, merely using them as a way of describing what the Obama administration is up to.”
He was saying, ‘Those crazies are not so crazy.’
He was saying people who want to kill ATF agents now have a reason to do so.
Maybe that’s not what he meant to say, but that’s what he said.
Maybe. Given the context of everything he said, you would have a hard time arguing against the face value interpretation.
The recent flirtation by Secretary Geithner with a new “global” currency
You’re an idiot.
“The recent flirtation by Secretary Geithner with a new “global” currency.”
I knew Michelle Bachmann Turner Overdrive wasn’t alone in her lunacy. Also, why is “global” surrounded by quotation marks? Either there’s a global currency, or there isn’t one.
“He was saying ‘Those crazies are not so crazy.’
Absolutely. It’s pretty clear that if Morris was writing down what he was saying here, he would have the word “crazies” surrounded by quotation marks…so you’re “he used the word ‘crazies”, so he can’t possibly agree with them!” defense/excuse doesn’t cut it.
Unless you’re stupid, agenda-driven, or both.
Jay Tea, you just agreed that lunatics who want to shoot FTA agents are “beginning to have a case” for doing just that.
If that isn’t “both” I don’t know what is.
Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck, Dick Morris, Steve Doocy, Gretchen Carlson, Brian Kilmeade,…what a sewer the Fox “News” Channel is.
I listened to the clip and I think Ollie’s headline and charactorizations are so blatently misleading that the term liar might very well apply.
This is the point where I point out I don’t give a —- what you think.
So, would anyone care to explain how “…are beginning to have a case” means anything like “they’re entirely justified,” and not “they had no case for a long time, and only now are they having the slightest resemblance to reality?”
I think I’ve discovered Media Matters’ modus operandi… find their target, find just a few words that they can use, strip them of any context whatsoever, spin the worst possible interpretation out of just those few words they can (or, if that won’t work, just plain make up an interpretation that defies logic), and then start shouting their message at the tops of their lungs.
I see why they spend so much on research. They gotta wade through a LOT of material to find those germs of their propaganda.
J.
J.G.Thayer: “So, would anyone care to explain how ‘…are beginning to have a case’ means anything like ‘they’re entirely justified,’…”
Would you care to explain why I have to fight your fucking strawman?
“…and not ‘they had no case for a long time, and only now are they having the slightest resemblance to reality?’”
If you saw the clip, you would know how completely wrong this characterization is.
Dick Morris went one for a long time saying that the United States would be controlled, controlled, by outside forces as a way of scaring the viewers. He then ends his paranoid rant by insinuating that he could see the justification for killing government agents over this.
If someone on the left did this, it would be labeled as treason by the right, and their enablers in the media.
Amused Observer: “I listened to the clip and I think Ollie’s headline and charactorizations are so blatently misleading that the term liar might very well apply.”
Care to explain why?
Can you give details?
Anything?
Well my little Canadian socialist friend,
Ollie’s misleading lede leaves one with the impression that Dick Morris supports or even has sympathies with the rural far right.
Instead Morris examines the G 20 conference and thinks he spots an agenda where Obama cedes soverignty of the FCC and the Federal Reserve to the IMF. Furthermore he thinks Obama may be willing to cede more soverignty to unelected non American bureocrats on the issue of global warming.
He points out that unlike Obama, Bush put American self interest first not last. Morris thinks that to Obama the United States of America is just another member of the UN rather than a nation whose self interest Obama ought to champion.
His closing remarks regarding militias shooting atf agents was not in support of such ideas but that Obama’s huge lurch to the left on forign policy made even the most crazed members of the far right seem a little less crazy.
What did you get out of it Strowbridge? Do you think Obama is willing to put the intersts of the United States first? What kind of impression did Ollie’s lede make in your left of center mind?
Solving climate change is in everybody’s best interest, AO.
Morris examines the G 20 conference and thinks he spots an agenda where Obama cedes soverignty of the FCC and the Federal Reserve to the IMF. Furthermore he thinks Obama may be willing to cede more soverignty to unelected non American bureocrats on the issue of global warming.
Heh. He forgot “our precious bodily fluids!”
Amused Observer: “Well my little Canadian socialist friend…”
Ha! How’s your banking system doing? Canada’s ranked number one, so I guess you could use a little socialism south of the border.
“Instead Morris examines the G 20 conference and thinks he spots an agenda where Obama cedes soverignty of the FCC and the Federal Reserve to the IMF. Furthermore he thinks Obama may be willing to cede more soverignty to unelected non American bureocrats on the issue of global warming.”
And then says, ‘the people who want to kill ATF agents are starting to have a case.’
I.E. there is justification to kill ATF agents.
“He points out that unlike Obama, Bush put American self interest first not last.”
Sorry. My mistake. I thought you were a human being with a functioning brainstem. Clearly you are a fucking idiot.
Let me guess, you think Global Warming is a hoax.
The ol’ toe-sucker’s mistake was basing his statement on two presumptions about his audience: 1) that they have at least a sixth-grade reading level, and B) they have the slightest modicum of honesty.
What they hell’s he doing on Cavuto, then?
Morris thinks…
But not very well. He’s wrong and so are you.
Let me get that for you.
He points out that unlike Obama, Bush put Bush’s self interest first not last.
LOL,
Strowbridge, your evidence for global warming is what again. It’s a religion for athiests. What was the name the first white men in your country called it.
Perhaps this is Canada’s big chance to play on the big boy’s stage.
Parthenon,
Is yielding American soverignty to European sensibilities a good move for America? Is that what swearing to uphold our Constitution means to you?
Is yielding American soverignty to European sensibilities a good move for America?
Is Dick Morris’ imagination the basis for all of your worldview or only most of it?
Is yielding American soverignty to European sensibilities a good move for America?
As Quaker has already requested in his usual incisive fashion, why don’t we first establish whether this is actually occurring before going any further.
No Quaker, ‘
I don’t pay all that much attention to Dick Morris. I was just pointing out the obvious about the clip Ollie chose for his posting. Ollie has made it clear that he couldn’t care less about my opinion. That’s cool, Ollie is still just a young pup with a high opinion of himself still basking in the reflected glow of the first Black Chicago pol to be elected prez. I get it.
He is however making his daily bread working for a liberal propaganda machine and in this case is basically a liar with his insinuations about Morris. It’s not like it is a real surprise or anything. Most of what the liberal media recirculates among themselves is basically bullshit anyway.
Dumbed down with an inferior education, brought up with next to no grasp of American history, Raised in unstable family situations with poor or incomplete role models it’s a wonder these kids haven’t turned out worse then they have,
Now we face the possibilities of another young pup with a high opinion of himself selling us down the river. With any luck at all much of Obama’s plans will self destruct. TThe media has a huge investment in Obama, they really let the mask slip but ordinary Americans are not as in love with O as the media makes them out to be. There are plenty of folks who resent his ideas of redistributing thier wealth. The next election cycles will at least be interesting.
AO, if you’re really pulling down 250+, good for you homie. I’m sure you’ll get by in our brave new world though. I’ll admit it’s gonna be rough.
“Ollie has made it clear that he couldn’t care less about my opinion. That’s cool, Ollie is still just a young pup with a high opinion of himself…”
I’m sure you’ll find plenty of people with low opinions of themselves who couldn’t care less about your opinion either, AO.
“…still basking in the reflected glow of the first Black Chicago pol to be elected prez.”
Right, Oliver’s disinterest in your opinion should be properly viewed in the context of the fact that Obama was elected. LOL. Oliver would be jumping hurdles, of course, to find out what you think about things if the McCain/Palin ticket was victorious.
“Americans are not as in love with O as the media makes them out to be”
Because we all know that when a president’s popularity drops below 30 percent, he has truly won over the hearts and minds of the American people.
Parthenon,
I don’t know where you got the idea I’m part of Obama’s targeted 250 plus club. But I can do basic math. Taxes will go up all over the place as we borrow our way to a new prosperity.
China is pushing for a new global market currency because they fear the traditional solution that a government uses when thier mouth writes a check thier butt can’t cash. INFLATION
Our kids are going to pay a huge generational debt to give Boomers one more shot at a decent retirement after thier one big asset reaches it’s true market value.
Anyone who thinks the feds are going to do a better job of running car companies might want to examine the success of British Leylands resounding job of management.
“China is pushing for a new global market currency”
China, like the rest of the world, wants to go into Euros more than dollars because in the long-term it’s probably a safer bet. If, God forbid, Republicans ever had the Whtie House and Congress again, the world knows that the dollar isn’t a safe bet any longer. This is not the same as saying “ZOMG CHINA WANTS A NEW WORLD CURRENCY.”
I realize basic literacy and economics are beyond most wing-nuts but please, try and educate yourself a little.
“Taxes will go up all over the place as we borrow our way to a new prosperity.”
Funny, my taxes aren’t going up. Then again, I don’t make 250K+.
The borrowing is a necessity right now because of what Bush Jr. and the Republican Party did to our economy (i.e., they fucked it up royally). Right now, markets are stagnant because nobody can get a loan. The idea is that in the short-term, the Fed will step in to lubricate the markets and get big-time investors spending again, thus producing jobs.
Believe me, I don’t think it’s perfect. But it’s better than doing nothing as American unemployment gets higher and higher each month. Obama’s plan is aimed at helping lower and middle class folks keep and/or get jobs, not at tax breaks for George Soros and Paris Hilton. This is why Americans overwhelmingly support him and the Democratic party right now. After six years of complete Republican control over the reigns of power, Americans know that Republicans are only interested in wealth redistribution to the Hilton’s and Soros’ among us.
But please, feel free to link to something your wrote back in 2005 about soaring American debt. Because I’m sure you were just as worried about deficit spending under a Republican as you were under a Democratic president, right?
Jaim,
Your arrogence is exceeded only by your basic ignorance. There aren’t enough evil successful people to pay for the money the least experienced president in American history is proposing to spend,
It is indeed ironic that the chineese communists are proposing the stiff bitter medicene that may actually help us. The Russians are piling on mostly out of spite.
If Obama does the tough thing and tells Detroit to let GM go bankrupt and breaks the Union grip on the American car industry possibly they might survive. More likely he will shift thier legacy costs for healthcare for retirees onto the backs of the general populace. That will feel like a tax increase to you.
You are going to be taxed to pay for my poor retirement decisions and to my subsidized but rationed healthcare.
You will be paying everincreasing taxes on CO2 while trying to compete against emerging asian economies un burdened by such constraints filled with an intelligent educated workforce. You’ll know the tide has turned when bright American kids start working in ever increasing numbers for Asian concerns. Leaving an unedcated workforce of American dead end kids fighting for the scraps of the jobs left over from our once mighty manufactoring legacy.
None of which has much to do with Ollie;s shameful lying regarding that political whore Dick Morris.
If your issue is with the under-education of American youth (with which I agree) then I’m glad to know you’ll join me in in calling for raising taxes to better fund public schools in America.
It’s no bed or roses in Asia right now either. All advanced economies are suffering due to the hyper-deregulation of the markets and banks.
But like I said, Obama’s deficit spending is a necessity in the wake of the Bush/Republican Recession. And I’m not surprised you said nothing (here or elsewhere) about the outrageous deficit spending that started under Bush II and Dick “deficits don’t matter” Cheney.
At least the recent stimulus bill is aimed at creating working and middle-class jobs, which will lead to long-term cyclical income and tax base growth, as opposed to a failed military occupation that will empower Iran for generations to come.
Keysian economics are all the rage now, and might have a chance if his actual theories were tried. Human nature being what it is, they never have been tried, because the power is too intoxicating to let go of. The stimulous provided by public sector spending funded as it must be from confiscatory taxation of the private sector. Either through direct taxation or increased borrowing, Regardless it either just kicks the can down the road or is paid for with inflation and is used for political not economic gain. All of which is results in high taxation of the productive side of the equation the private sector.
My kids went through an extremely well funded school system and would have received a poor quality education if not for our intervention. And please, please, don’t whine to me about underfunding. Facilities are top notch and a teacher halfway through her career can easily be taking home $80,000.00 per yr.
The sad truth is the teachers are not qualified. They are woefully ignorant, lack intelltual diversity and seem determined to teach kids what to think in a PC fashion rather than how to think and ground them in thier common roots and history. Teaching is a degree that any warm body can get through. They have great built in leverage through thier unions and consistantly strike just as school is about to begin, holding students and parents alike hostages. One of the advantages of growing uo in a small community is I know my kids teachers. I grew up with them and I remember them learning to read and learn math. Teaching as a profession does not attract the right side of the bell curve despite the lucrative pay scale and short work day.
I can only imagine the horrors of trying to teach a tough inner city school populated basically with criminals from unstable at best family dynamics. Self esteem over discipline is a poor substitute for an actual unbiased education that provides students with the horsepower need to actually compete with the smart kids around the world. In this new global society we live and compete in make no doubt about it, a nations most valuable resource will be it’s smart people.
That’s cool, Ollie is still just a young pup with a high opinion of himself still basking in the reflected glow of the first Black Chicago pol to be elected prez. I get it.
No, I really don’t think you do.
Facilities are top notch and a teacher halfway through her career can easily be taking home $80,000.00 per yr.
In what world do you live in AO, because that’s definitely not my kids’ school system.
Teaching as a profession does not attract the right side of the bell curve despite the lucrative pay scale and short work day.
Bull.Shit. The bell rings at 2:30. Teacher spends another 2 hours grading and preparing lessons for the next day. And let’s not forget that she came in early to get the kids off the bus and supervise the subsidized breakfast being served in the cafeteria. That’s a 7:30-4:30 work day, easily 9 hours. And the national median salary for a teacher with 20 years of experience is $56k
You are absolutely right that not enough smart, motivated people are attracted into teaching these days. I can’t imagine why, given the 45+ hour work weeks, mediocre pay, and wonderful prestige our teachers are given these days.
Dumbed down with an inferior education, brought up with next to no grasp of American history, Raised in unstable family situations with poor or incomplete role models it’s a wonder these kids haven’t turned out worse then they have,
Just who the FUCK do you think you’re talking about?
Taxes will go up all over the place as we borrow our way to a new prosperity.
No, no, no. Taxes won’t go up. Taxes will go down! Government revenue increases when you cut taxes. Morris, Rush, and the GOP tells me so.
Southern Quaker,
Thats not how it works around here on the upper West Coast, Teachers get paid to get to school 1/2 hour before it starts to be avaiable to help students having difficulties. Reality, either in the teachers lounge or sliding into class 10 minutes before the bell. Most grading is done by the students after trading papers. This leads to a peculiar situation where students do quite well on homework exercises but mysteriously
fail the tests.
Bus duty is handled by seperate staff as is cafeteria duty. Subsidized breakfast really is the business of the parents, but alas far too many parents can make babies but can’t take care of them.
I can’t speak intelligenty about your pay statistics but simply point out the difference between median pay and average pay. In my stste teachers pay is a matter of open record, My friends wife is a gradeschool teacher, She is contracted for 1220 hours a year and brings home $78,00.00 per year plus a real decent bennies package.
Quaker in a Basement,
The Laffer curve works best in a pro business climate of falling taxes and decreasing regulation. Let us not forget that most government regulation is not of the earth shattering types that set industries free to rape and pillage but of mindnumbing forms to be filled out that have nothing to do with the corner hotdog stand that is wasting his time dealing with them.
Duros,
I’m talking about the next generation of Americans Obama is sticking with the bill for his grandios plans to rework the world. Given the sophisticated view of the world you offer,, quite possibly your kids.
Teachers get an hour a day for lesson planning. Lesson planning has a grand ring to it. As a teacher I once dated admitted, the first year you create your mimeograph masters for the tests, repeat. Plus you have to keep track of what page you.re on.
Bus duty and
I can’t speak intelligenty about your pay statistics but simply point out the difference between median pay and average pay.
um, yeah, that was my point. Average pay can be skewed by a relatively small percentage of high-paying school systems, such as the one your wife apparently works for. The median is a much better measure of what most school teachers make in this country. I’ll take my statistical, nation-wide data over your anecdotal evidence, thanks. (www.payscale.com)
My friends wife is a gradeschool teacher,
Do you often tell her what a shitty teacher she is and a drain on society?
I swear to god if you hate it all so much, why don’t you just go Galt and move to Somalia?
The Laffer curve works best….
Sorry. Game over.
Duros,
I believe you are, as the softer sciences put it, projecting, I love this country greatly and have deep roots here. I know my place in history here and my relations were part of building this great place. I am amazed at the intelligence our forefathers built into the Constitution, which I believe is what seperates us from the rest of the world.
I deeply resent it when politicians try to run roughshod over the Constitution. An erosion of one liberty is as erosion of all liberties. Constitutional malfeasence is a bipartisan affair but I’d bet Democrats harbor more violaters.
My friends wife is a decent teacher, not great but decent. Her own education, although she got almost straight A’s in college did not prepare her to teach our students. She is terribly deficient in science and history, I wouldn’t say she is a drain on society but she is inadequatly trained to be teaching kids.
I’ve put 2 kids through school and I’ve seen plenty of teachers who are in way over thier heads and have no business teaching and are a drain on society. The level of ignorance kids have about our common history and American civics is shocking.
As for going Galt, what is your opinion of objectivism? You are clearly a member of the class Rand detested and whose literary heros struggled against. I find it interesting in this age of Obama popularity that Rands classics are enjoying a great boom in sales. What do you suppose that means?
Southern Quaker,
You may have not read my post very carefully, In my state the hours contracted, salary paid and benefits accrued are a matter of public record, not antecdotal evidence at all. My point of median vs average has to do with a starting teachers wages skewing the numbers when compared to a teacher in mid to end career. Teachers are damn well paid for 1220 hours a year. Certainly more than many are worth.
My point of median vs average has to do with a starting teachers wages skewing the numbers when compared to a teacher in mid to end career.
Anecdotal evidence, meaning a conclusion based on one or two examples which may or may not be evidence of a trend.
The number I quoted was the national median salary of teachers with twenty years of experience. What other profession requiring post-graduate work – as all public school systems do these days – pays less than $60k after twenty years?
And besides, the mean skews more than the median. Jeez, take a statistics class.
Well my cocky little pacifist friend,
“Anecdotal evidence, meaning a conclusion based on one or two examples which may or may not be evidence of a trend.”
As opposed to a database that lists the name, hours contracted, benefits paid, and salary for every single public school teacher in the state.
As for the continuing education, it’s pretty basic stuff, not even really high school level work.
Well my Arrogant Observer friend,
What database? You mentioned the salary of one teacher who is friends with your wife, and used that to infer that all teachers are very well paid. I pointed to a national database that collects the median salaries of teachers across the country to demonstrate that, in general, no they’re not.
As for the continuing education, it’s pretty basic stuff, not even really high school level work.
wtf do you know about it, hotshot? Most states now require public school teachers to obtain a masters degree within five years of entering the classroom. (And the school systems don’t generally pay for it, either.) That’s significantly more work than your “continuing education.”
Amused Observer: “Strowbridge, your evidence for global warming is what again. It’s a religion for athiests.”
Oh my god! I was just joking!
Anyone who thinks Global Warming is a hoax at this points needs to fuck off and die.
You are a waste of a human life.
Anyone quoting Art Laffer or any of his theories must first watch youtube “Schiff Laffer” to see Art Laffer make a total idiot of himself to Peter Schiff, a brilliant financial analyst.