Israel Apparently Trying To Make The Rest Of The World Hate Them
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Great move, guys.
Israeli authorities broke up a series of Palestinian cultural events in Jerusalem on Saturday, disrupting a children’s march and bursting balloons at a schoolyard celebration in a crackdown that underscored the emotional battle over control of the disputed holy city.
UPDATE: This doesn’t help either.
During Operation Cast Lead, Israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement and intentionally destroyed their property, say soldiers who fought in the offensive.
The soldiers are graduates of the Yitzhak Rabin pre-military preparatory course at Oranim Academic College in Tivon. Some of their statements made on Feb. 13 will appear Thursday and Friday in Haaretz. Dozens of graduates of the course who took part in the discussion fought in the Gaza operation.
The speakers included combat pilots and infantry soldiers. Their testimony runs counter to the Israel Defense Forces’ claims that Israeli troops observed a high level of moral behavior during the operation. The session’s transcript was published this week in the newsletter for the course’s graduates.
Israel is the one real western-style democracy in the middle east. They are a close ally of the United States, and much of their actions receive our blessing. So, the Bush/Cheney style “slightly better than terrorists” standard is not an acceptable response here.
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© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Israel’s plan is to make living in the Gaza strip so horrible that as soon as Egypt opens it border with Gaza, all the Palestinians will flood into that country leaving the Israelis free to take over the region.
A.) I don’t think this will work.
b.) They are committing gross violations of human rights in doing so.
Ugh. Where’s Israel’s version of Red State or LGF to attack these soldiers for daring to criticize their Dear Leaders? Somebody should be destroying their families and checking their political affiliations and finding out what kind of countertops they have, otherwise the terrorists have already won.
And why are we all so anti-semitic?
Sorry, just thought I’d preempt Dennis, Jay Tea, and the rest of Troll Nation..
Being anti-Israel does not mean you’re an anti-Semite. Far from it. The Israeli government’s current policies ensure that the country has no future.
I’m sure those were Islamofascist balloons, which had it coming and deserved everything they got for threatening our freedom.
It has been said that no oppresses better than the person who has been oppressed themselves. I don’t know if that’s rally true. But I wish Israel wouldn’t keep providing such a fine example.
I bet someone will write in defending Israel’s actions here. The “Israel is never wrong” crowd is not a small one.
They obviously don’t remember the scene in “Fiddler on the Roof” where the Jewish wedding is all busted up.
Unbelievable irony for a people who have been so persecuted to now be the prosecutors.
Jim H. :Unbelievable irony for a people who have been so persecuted to now be the prosecutors.
Not so unbelievable, alas.
Bit of a quibble on the headline, Oliver: Israel doesn’t need to do anything to get most of the world to hate them. It’s pretty much a given.
I read the articlea, and a few highlights jumped out at me:
From the first:
* Israel bans all Palestinian political gatherings within Jerusalem proper.
* The gathering was clearly political; note the constant evocations of the Palestinian flag.
* Israel claims and holds Jerusalem as its undivided capitol; the Palestinians want to do the same.
* The event coincided with the 1000th day of captivity (presuming he’s still alive, which I doubt) of Gilad Shalit, kidnapped during a cross-border invasion by Palestinan terrorists from the Gaza Strip.
From the second article, and other readings:
* Israel is confirmed to have taken great measures to minimize civilian casualties; the Palestinians did all they could to maximize them. Neither side was completely successful.
* In the Palestinian conflict, there is almost no way to tell a civilian from a terrorist; the terrorists deliberately disguise themselves as civilians, mingle among them, and deliberately place military targets among civilians and civilian structures.
* In war, ugly things happen. It is to be avoided and regretted, but it can’t be avoided.
* In Israel, there is a history of open discussion of these things, and there have even been prosecutions for those who violate the laws of war.
Conversely, the Palestinians routinely celebrate the perpetrators of the greatest atrocities. Witness the lionizing of Samir Kuntar, who bravely murdered a four-year-old girl after killing her father in front of her.
Israel is far from perfect. But the mere existence of stories like this show that it is considerably better than its neighbors.
J.
matt621 says: “Is this the best that JournoList has to offer today in the way of repetitve original thought in the liberal echo chamber?”
I noticed you said nothing to contradict it. Nothing.
“Israel is confirmed to have taken great measures to minimize civilian casualties;…”
If “israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement,” then no, Israel did not do this.
“…there is almost no way to tell a civilian from a terrorist,”
Here’s a way to tell the difference between a terrorist and a civilian: the terrorists are doing things they shouldn’t be doing, the civilians aren’t.
“In war, ugly things happen.”
So you’re an apologist for war crimes now? Sick, just sick.
“It is to be avoided and regretted, but it can’t be avoided.
It is to be avoided, but it can’t be avoided…makes perfect sense (rolls eyes).
Sheesh, Strowbridge… even for you, that’s weak.
“Israel is confirmed to have taken great measures to minimize civilian casualties;…”
If “israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement,” then no, Israel did not do this.
Here are a few things Israel does to minimize civilian casualties:
* Reduce the size of warheads on missiles
* Maintains positive control over weapons right up until impact/detonation
* Insists on absolute identification before launching attacks
* Develops new weapons that are more and more precise.
Things the Palestinians do to maximize casualties:
* Set up a military command bunker under a hospital
* Use schools as launching pads for missiles
* Use unguided missiles fired in the general direction of civilian populaces
* Lace suicide bombs with nails and rat poison to maximize injuries and prevent victims from being able to coagulate
* Surround themselves with civilians, even children, while launching their attacks
* Use mosques as weapons depots
That’s just a few examples, Strowbridge. I got plenty more.
J.
Oh, and over on Meryl Yourish’s page, her colleague “SoccerDad” has his own take on these reports:
http://www.yourish.com/2009/03/22/7018
Israel is far from perfect. But the mere existence of stories like this show that it is considerably better than its neighbors.
Oliver’s final statement in the post.
So, the Bush/Cheney style “slightly better than terrorists” standard is not an acceptable response here.
Talk about missing the point, Jay (Tea).
J.G.Thayer: “Sheesh, Strowbridge… even for you, that’s weak.”
What did I say that’s weak?
What DIDN’T you say that was weak?
I said that Israel goes to great lengths to reduce civilian casualties, and I have listed quite a few. You interpreted that as “Israel doesn’t do every single thing I think they could.”
Here’s something for you to chew on, Strowbridge:
During the last Gaza fighting, Hamas did the following:
* Moved its leadership into a bunker beneath Gaza’s largest hospital.
* Fired rockets at civilian areas from a school and a UN facility.
* Used mosques and private homes as arms depots
* Rigged a zoo with countless bombs and mines as a boobytrap.
What should have been Israel’s response to these actions?
Here’s a hint: under the rules of law, a protected structure loses its protected status the instant it is used for military purposes — and any harm that befalls it and (and any people in and around it) is entirely the responsibility of the side that militarized it, not the attacker.
I can’t wait to hear what General “Southern Strategy” Strowbridge would counsel in such cases.
J.
Me: Jay Tea says: “What did I say that’s weak?”
J.G.Thayer: “What DIDN’T you say that was weak?”
Okay… Let me try that again…
What did I say that was weak?
OK, for the third time:
If Oliver’s page didn’t support cut and paste, I’d tell you to read up yourself.
Let me spell it out for you:
I said: “Israel is confirmed to have taken great measures to minimize civilian casualties;…”
And you said: If “israeli forces killed Palestinian civilians under permissive rules of engagement,” then no, Israel did not do this.
Your latter statement is utterly fallacious. I said “taken great measures.” Your argument is presuming that I said “guaranteed no civilian casualties.”
I backed up my statement by listing just some of the measures Israel has taken. Curiously, you had nothing to say about that. I also listed some of the tactics used by Hamas. You had nothing to say about that, either. Instead, you keep insisting I repeat my prior point.
This is the third time. If you’re too dense to grasp it yet, you’re on your own. Take the movie off “PAUSE” and continue your flight from reality.
J.
Really.
Is this the best that JournoList has to offer today in the way of repetitve original thought in the liberal echo chamber?
Do better.
Right back atcha, big guy.
* In war, ugly things happen. It is to be avoided and regretted, but it can’t be avoided.
Sure it can. Knock it off.
OK, for the third time:
Jay. Step back. CSS didn’t say anything. Daniel Rotter did.
J.G.Thayer: “OK, for the third time…”
So trying to be subtle failed.
That wasn’t me. That was someone else. That’s why I bolded “I” in my last post.
You clearly lied about me, repeatedly. So now I’m suing.
My lawyer will be contacting you in the morning.
He’ll be the drunk guy peeing on your car at 3 a.m.
Aw, crap. It WAS Rotter, and I DO owe Strowbridge an apology.
Strowbridge, I’m sorry. Rotter’s response was phrased in a way that made it seem like a response from you, and I didn’t catch that it wasn’t. That was careless, and I shouldn’t have let it happen.
Kindly strike out the directing of my response to Strowbridge, and I invite Rotter or anyone else to respond.
Strowbridge, kindly inform your lawyer to restrain himself to just the right side of Mongo, my SUV. It could use the rinsing down more.
It’s also the side that’s occasionally electrified.
J.
So, Jay (Tea), no comment on how your line of reasoning in your first post was exactly the point of Oliver’s post? Figures, whenever I show up, the ultra-cons go running.
I’m sorry
You seem to have to say that a lot Jay Tea.
Zython, it’s a protest against the double standard. Israel does a great deal to minimize civilian casualties, far more than it is obligated to do, and still gets criticized for not being perfect. Israel’s enemies do everything they can to maximize civilian casualties, both among Israelis and their own, and get virtually no criticism.
It’s a subtle form of racism. We don’t criticize the Arabs because a lot of people think that they’re incapable of acting any more civilized.
Meanwhile, Israel is held to an impossible standard of perfection.
The worst atrocity Israel has committed pales in comparison to their enemies’ proudest accomplishments.
J.
It’s a subtle form of racism. We don’t criticize the Arabs because a lot of people think that they’re incapable of acting any more civilized.
Then you say…
The worst atrocity Israel has committed pales in comparison to their enemies’ proudest accomplishments.
Yeah…
So your solution to this problem is to hold Israel to a lower standard, rather than hold Palastinians to a higher one? Gotcha…
Zython, I probably should have put “worst atrocity” in quotes, because what I was trying to emphasize that Israel has done bad things, but handles them appropriately. Their enemies, on the other hand, routinely do far worse things than Israel has ever done and revels in them.
And I’d settle for the Palestinians held to ANY kind of standard, instead of the silence that is usually expressed, and in cases like this silence is virtually indistinguishable from assent.
And Duros: thanks for pointing out I had mistaken Rotter’s comment for Strowbridge’s.
J.
And I’d settle for the Palestinians held to ANY kind of standard, instead of the silence that is usually expressed, and in cases like this silence is virtually indistinguishable from assent.
How do you know who’s being silent, and who’s being silenced?
Zython, let’s just limit ourselves to our host here. He’s criticizing Israel. Has he EVER criticized the Palestinians?
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Zython, let’s just limit ourselves to our host here. He’s criticizing Israel. Has he EVER criticized the Palestinians? ”
If I recall correctly… yes.
In fact, reading his post above, he implied they were terrorists, or at the very least, terrorist within the Palestinian people.