’)That this is even an idea is a testament to the stupidity of the cultural right.
A Texas legislator is waging a war of biblical proportions against the science and education communities in the Lone Star State as he fights for a bill that would allow a private school that teaches creationism to grant a Master of Science degree in the subject.State Rep. Leo Berman (R-Tyler) proposed House Bill 2800 when he learned that The Institute for Creation Research (ICR), a private institution that specializes in the education and research of biblical creationism, was not able to receive a certificate of authority from Texas’ Higher Education Coordinating Board to grant Master of Science degrees.
Berman’s bill would allow private, non-profit educational institutions to be exempt from the board’s authority.
“If you don’t take any federal funds, if you don’t take any state funds, you can do a lot more than some business that does take state funding or federal funding,” Berman says. “Why should you be regulated if you don’t take any state or federal funding?”
HB 2800 does not specifically name ICR; it would allow any institution that meets its criteria to be exempt from the board’s authority. But Berman says ICR was the inspiration for the bill because he feels creationism is as scientific as evolution and should be granted equal weight in the educational community.
Why bother with all that class time? Just buy a diploma from one of my spammers, $35 for your Masters, $45 for the PhD. I guarantee it will be every bit as good as the one from ICR.
sadly cheap and easy for you, oliver. “Texas” isn’t engaging in this.. One guy is in your own words, “fighting” to get this through. It hasn’t passed. Also, the THECB, which is the final judge, has not approved the ICR.
As someone who spends most of my energy working in higher ed in Texas, with some of the most gifted researchers in the country, it’s tiresome and aggravating to have someone as smart as you take a cheap shot at the whole state of Texas for something that only a portion of it is guilty of. I admire your work more than most people’s but you should have tried harder on this one.
Shoot, while a state legislator in Tyler, TX is trying to do something stupid, President Obama’s VA Chief is trying to make wounded and disabled veterans pay for their own health care. Guess which is dumber and which is more likely to have an adverse affect on the nation.
Can you only be upset about one thing at a time?
it’s tiresome and aggravating to have someone as smart as you take a cheap shot at the whole state of Texas for something that only a portion of it is guilty of
Yeah, well us East Coast elites have taken the cheap shots from the earthy southerners for quite some time now…
“President Obama’s VA Chief is trying to make wounded and disabled veterans pay for their own health care.
Guess which is dumber and which is more likely to have an adverse affect on the nation.”
Guess you fell for another right wing lie. Go back to Hotair, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
SFC B says: “Shoot, while a state legislator in Tyler, TX is trying to do something stupid…”
Translation: LOOK OVER THERE!
I think Oliver would agree with me when I suggest you stick to the topic at hand, or start your own Blog.
On one front, and one front only, the guy has the slightest point: IF the school doesn’t take state or federal funding, THEN it should be exempted from a lot of the onerous restrictions that come with that. “If you take the King’s gold, you play the King’s tune.”
On the main point, though: if he’s looking for state accreditation (even if it actually generates revenue for the state through the accreditation process by fees and whatnot), then the state is the arbiter of its own standards — and if they have (correctly) chosen to recognize Creationism as religious piffle and not truly “science,” then that is entirely the state’s prerogative, and this “Institute” has no right to demand to be accomodated. Ask, yes — but not demand.
Hey, Strowbridge! Glad to see you! Any more to say about your little fantasy about me being “fired from blogging?”
(crickets)
Thought not.
I’m taking your dropping the subject as your recognizing that you’ve put yourself out on a very, very slender limb, and lack the testicular fortitude to admit it.
J.
President Obama’s VA Chief is trying to make wounded and disabled veterans pay for their own health care.
Not even close to right, SFC.
The proposal (apparently dropped today) would have allowed the VA to bill private insurers for treatment provided to members of the military for service-related injuries.
Is that a good policy? I have no idea. Veterans groups raised some objections that sound reasonable to me. Yet even as they raised these objections, they didn’t characterize the proposal as “making wounded and disabled veterans pay for their own health care.”
I’m taking your dropping the subject as your recognizing that you’ve put yourself out on a very, very slender limb, and lack the testicular fortitude to admit it.
And I’m taking Mr. Tea’s refraining from accusations about Mr. Strowbridge’s alleged use illegal narcotics as a realization, an awakening that such accusations are beneath the dignity of a “professional blogger.”
Show us some fortitude, Mr. Tea.
Quaker, I hereby retract my insinuation that Mr. Strowbridge utilizes illegal substances. I fully believe that he was completely in his right mind, unimpaired, when he libeled me.
It was an expression of my sheer disbelief that anyone could be so reckless in their malice that I first broached the possibility that he was engaging in recreational pharmacology; on further consideration, I do now believe that he is, indeed, that malicious and stupid to have done so without chemical intoxication.
J.
Halfsies, Strowbridge?
Back on topic, isn’t a requisite for a Masters of Science, you know, actual science?
Back on topic, isn’t a requisite for a Masters of Science, you know, actual science?
They give ‘em out for psychology. Does that count?
Quaker, not bad. Toss in “Economics” while you’re at it. As they say, if you get two economists together, you’ll get three opinions.
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Hey, Strowbridge! Glad to see you! Any more to say about your little fantasy about me being “fired from blogging?”"
I’m 90% sure you said you were no longer Blogging at WizBang.
The claim that you were fired was an insult. Nothing more.
“(crickets)”
This is the first time I’ve seen you respond to that insult. Expecting me to react to your commend before that seems irrational. However, that’s not out of character for you.
“I’m taking your dropping the subject as your recognizing that you’ve put yourself out on a very, very slender limb, and lack the testicular fortitude to admit it.”
You are such a fucking joke.
Jay Tea says: “Quaker, I hereby retract my insinuation that Mr. Strowbridge utilizes illegal substances. I fully believe that he was completely in his right mind, unimpaired, when he libeled me.”
Oh god. You are fucking pathetic.
You really have a high opinion of yourself, don’t you?
The claim that you were fired was an insult. Nothing more.
Well, maybe not quite halfway, but I’ll consider it a deed done. You boys will have to sort it out from here.
As they say, if you get two economists together, you’ll get three opinions.
Funny thing. Quakers say that too…about Quakers.
Typical Republican whining. Are you an ignorant fuck-wit who can’t hack a BA program in biology or another natural science?
Then you’ve been wronged by the elitists in academia! We shall make for your a series of just-as-good (but completely backwards and scientifically worthless) institutions!
Republicans sure do love their strange brand of welfare.
It was an insult, yes. It was also a damnable, libelous lie. Yes, I left Wizbang in November — on the most amicable terms, for a better opportunity which I was offered based on my accomplishments.
The most casual diligence would have revealed that, and I would not be a bit surprised if you did know that, but chose to lie in your frothing, mindless fury in your need to lash out.
I acknowledge your admission of error. Naturally, you didn’t have the character to apologize.
J.
Oh, Oliver, if you missed the news:
1) Chris Dodd has admitted that he DID insert the AIG exemption into the stimulus bill.
2) The Obama administration has backed down from a plan to force veterans with combat injuries and disabilities to use their own insurance, and shift the costs off the federal government.
Any comment on those?
J.
I’m taking your dropping the subject as your recognizing that you’ve put yourself out on a very, very slender limb, and lack the testicular fortitude to admit it.
OMG. The hilarity spreads. Jay Tea, PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, SUE HIM!!!! PLEASE!!!!
The most casual diligence would have revealed that …”
ROFLMAO!!! Too. Fucking. Funny.
I acknowledge your admission of error. Naturally, you didn’t have the character to apologize.
Oh. Right. And your apology was where in this:
because I see a lot of self-important blathering and rationalization. But no apology.
Jay Tea, do you lack the character to apologize to Strowbridge for accusing him taking illegal drugs?
I’ll comment on both, Mr. Tea. You missed the mark on both.
1) Chris Dodd has said that “the administration” came back to him during conference negotiations and asked if he would agree with the change to his amendment. Dodd was not part of the conference negotiations, but accepted the change. During an interview with CNN, Dodd made one comment that sounded as if he took part in the rewrite, but it really wasn’t very clear. In any case, Dodd’s amendment did not include the date exemption and he assented to it only when pressed by Treasury.
2) The plan was not to “force veterans to use their own insurance,” but to allow the VA to bill private insurers for services provided to covered members of the military. The bottom line result would be to gain more funding for VA care. During talks with the Obama administration, veterans’ groups raised some objections (that seem logical to me) and they proposed alternatives that will have the same effect–insurance companies reimbursing the VA for treatment provided to veterans.
The villainy of our foes is never quite as blatant as we hope, is it Tea?
Fafaroo, the drug use wasn’t accusatory, but exculpatory — I was offering him an excuse for his reckless irrationality. But I realized that I shouldn’t assist him in dodging the responsibility for his actions, so I withdrew it.
But back to the topic at hand — yeah, we’ve established that one particular representative in Texas is an asshole. Woo hoo. Stop the presses.
J.
Fafaroo, the drug use wasn’t accusatory, but exculpatory — I was offering him an excuse for his reckless irrationality.
You are just a priceless piece of work, Jay Tea.
By that rationalization you really don’t have any reason to complain about Strowbridge’s original comment which came in the form of an “exculpatory” question:
You see Strowbridge was clearly trying to explain your “reckless irrationality” towards him by inquiring if you were jealous, then offering a possible explanation for such jealousy, posed as a question.
Hence not accusatory, but exculpatory.
Any they say conservatives don’t do nuance!
J.G.Thayer: “Fafaroo, the drug use wasn’t accusatory…”
Really? It sure sounded like you were accusing me of smoking pot. I guess that will be a matter for the court to decide.
(That was a joke, by the way.)
“It was an insult, yes. It was also a damnable, libelous lie.”
I want you to talk to a lawyer about that. I’m sure any competent lawyer will be happy to discuss it with you… for $450 an hour.
“The most casual diligence would have revealed that, and I would not be a bit surprised if you did know that…”
Actually, I did know that.
“but chose to lie in your frothing, mindless fury in your need to lash out.”
Over dramatic?
On a side note, I wonder if it is libelous to falsely accuses someone of libel?
virgotex: it’s tiresome and aggravating to have someone as smart as you take a cheap shot at the whole state of Texas for something that only a portion of it is guilty of
OW: Yeah, well us East Coast elites have taken the cheap shots from the earthy southerners for quite some time now…
-
SFC B: Shoot, while a state legislator in Tyler, TX is trying to do something stupid…
CSS: Translation: LOOK OVER THERE!
-
I see a bit of “Look, over there” in both of these responses.
Jay Tea: the guy has the slightest point: IF the school doesn’t take state or federal funding, THEN it should be exempted from a lot of the onerous restrictions that come with that.
So if I don’t take any government funds, they can’t place any restrictions on what I do? Ridiculous. Of course they can.
If I DO take gov’t funds then they can certainly place restrictions on how those funds are used. But even if I don’t they can general rules which I’m required to follow.
Farfaroo: “You see Strowbridge was clearly trying to explain your “reckless irrationality” towards him by inquiring if you were jealous, then offering a possible explanation for such jealousy, posed as a question.
Hence not accusatory, but exculpatory.”
Weeee!
I think we are done here, but it sure was fun while it lasted.
So, Strowbridge has admitted that he knew it was false when he said I was fired from blogging. A lie, some might say.
How astonishingly candid.
Regardless, he has admitted his error in a relatively timely (if typically assholish) fashion, so the damage he attempted to inflict has been mitigated. I consider the matter closed, and his admission that he cheerfully and willingly lies to suit his purposes gravy.
J.
The modern Republican party is Koo-Koo Bananas. Yipes.
J.G.Thayer: “So, Strowbridge has admitted that he knew it was false when he said I was fired from blogging. A lie, some might say.”
Nope. There was no intent to deceive. Just taking the piss.
“Regardless, he has admitted his error in a relatively timely (if typically assholish) fashion, so the damage he attempted to inflict has been mitigated. I consider the matter closed…”
Translation: J.G.Thayer admits he just got his ass handed to him in this fight, so he is going to slink away… to his Klan meeting.
Regardless, he has admitted his error in a relatively timely (if typically assholish) fashion, so the damage he attempted to inflict has been mitigated. I consider the matter closed, and his admission that he cheerfully and willingly lies to suit his purposes gravy.
The damage he attempted to inflict was mitigated? PHEW!!!! Gosh, Jay Tea! That was a close one. Lord knows stronger “professional reputations” than yours have been utterly destroyed by a malicious comment in these very threads.
Yes, you sure put Strowbridge in his place what with your serious and not at all wildly overblown reaction. Surely your “professional reputation” would have been engulfed in a firestorm of scandal and accusation had you not kept your head and threatened him with legal action as quickly as you did.
Yup. You sure came out looking like the “rational” and “reasonable” one here.
bleh.
Of for fuck’s sake, somebody get Jay a tissue. I can’t stand to see a grown man (even one who lives in his mom’s basement) cry.
Yeah, well us East Coast elites have taken the cheap shots from the earthy southerners for quite some time now…
yeah, and the cheap shots never flow the other direction.
The point was a valid one – this guy’s a moron, who happens to live in Texas. But his bill hasn’t gained any support in the legislature as a whole. Go after Berman and the creationists with both barrels, but tarring the entire state was a pointless dig.
J.G.Thayer: “I consider the matter closed…”
Fafaroo: “Yup. You sure came out looking like the “rational” and “reasonable” one here.”
Jaim: “Of for fuck’s sake, somebody get Jay a tissue.”
Some how, I get the impression this will not be the last time we hear about this, no matter how much J.G.Thayer sales the matter is closed.
I believe we will be laughing about ‘The Day J.G.Thayer Snapped and Threatened to Sue C.S.Strowbridge’ for a long, long time.
The saddest part about this is Jay still looks better than all his friends who have spent this week complaining they’re not on Ezra Klein’s mailing list. So at least he has SOME dignity.
Back to the point… Oliver has now set the standard that any Democrat who files any bill anywhere is now emblematic of the entire party as a whole. No matter if he or she is pretty much unsupported by any other Democrat.
Hmm… this could be a good time to poke through the records of bills filed in Massachusetts and California…
Strowbridge: spin all you like. You knowingly and willingly made a defamatory lie about me, was caught, and had to admit it.
And having dealt with a few actual Klan members in my life, I can say this: you come across as a bigger asshole than they do. They’re more dangerous, overall, than you are, as they have the courage to be an asshole in person and not just play one on the internet, and tend to lack the tech savvy to pull it off as well as you do, but the similarities are there.
In 1992, I confronted some Pat Buchanan supporters over their candidate. The discussion ended with one of them “offering” to throw me through a plate glass window for pointing out that he was a fascist and a Nazi supporter. (The irony of their responding to those observations with threats of violence escaped them.)
What are you credentials in the area of confronting those types, Strowbridge? Did you ever threaten to give their movies a bad review?
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Strowbridge: spin all you like. You knowingly and willingly made a defamatory lie about me, was caught, and had to admit it.”
Actually, I don’t know if you were fired or not, so it’s not a lie. My intent was not to deceive, so it was not a lie. The fact you freaked out so much leads me to believe you were fired. Fired, laid off, involuntarily retired, etc.
“And having dealt with a few actual Klan members in my life…”
No comment.
“I can say this: you come across as a bigger asshole than they do.”
That’s probably because you sympathize with their racist beliefs. Why else to you think the Southern Strategy policy doesn’t come into play when it comes to the number of racist Republicans?
The distinction between you and the Klan, Strowbridge, is a matter of bodily fluids.
The ones I’ve met were drooling idiots.
I can’t imagine a conversation with you that doesn’t involve my wiping your spittle off.
Given the choice, I’ll settle for talking with those who keep their saliva to themselves.
I give you points, however, for managing to omit my explicit condemnation of the Klan and their ilk. I’d be curious to find out just how many Klansmen you’ve met up in Canada, and how much is just you stereotyping.
And at last, the “Southern Strategy” — I KNEW that if you kept talking, you’d have to bring it up. You’re positively Pavlovian in that respect.
So, make up your mind — when you said (falsely) that I had been fired from blogging, which statement is true:
Versus…
Hmm… I seem to recall numerous occasions when someone asserted something that was not true, you called them a liar. And when someone says something definitively that they don’t know to be true, that seems to be a lie, as well.
I’ll repeat my prior point, which you chose to ignore: the Klan, while only a pale shadow of its former self, is still a greater danger to society than you are or ever will be.
But you’re still an asshole. Take pride in that.
J.
ICR is a very top notch institution.
They have some amazing scientists in their group.
More power to them
http://www.icr.org
so he is going to slink away… to his Klan meeting.
Hey!
Quit that!
You wanna get sued?
You know, pie fights are really funny, but only for the first few minutes.
I’m with QiB. This is boring. Can we get back to busting the chops of creationist idiots now?
J.G.Thayer: “I’d be curious to find out just how many Klansmen you’ve met up in Canada,”
Not many Klan members in Canada. Not a lot of Republicans either.
Coincidence?
“So, make up your mind — when you said (falsely) that I had been fired from blogging, which statement is true…”
I realized I only had your word that you were not fired. And since you are not reliable, it was wrong for me to say I knew you weren’t fired.
Strowbridge, you should submit your photo to a proctologist’s textbook. You are the perfect, ideal asshole.
J.
Southern Q: I’m with QiB. This is boring.
I agree. And as one who’s had more than a reasonable number of prolonged bouts with CSS, that’s saying something.
I’m with QiB. This is boring. Can we get back to busting the chops of creationist idiots now?
You misunderstand me. I was hoping they’d step it up from pies to seltzer bottles.
Haw!
Regarding the “folly” of tarring all us Texans with a brush that really applies to “only one legislator,” let’s take a look at the regional context in which this legislative proposal arises:
1. The history of fundamentalist opposition to science is long in Texas. In the 20s, they succeeded in getting the Bible taught in public schools, barring public schools from hiring anyone who was agnostic or atheist, barring the University of Texas from hiring any faculty who were “infidel, atheist, or agnostic,” and banned any mention of evolution from state science textbooks with explicit provisions for any teacher caught using evolution-containing textbooks to be fired. During the 1970s and 1980s, a Texas fundamentalist activist couple succeeded in having textbook after textbook banned on the grounds that they conflicted with Christian teaching. The current “controlled” approach to the teaching of evolution in Texas public schools, wherein, “strengths and weaknesses” are discussed, is in fact a move FORWARD from the science-hostile approach that prevailed up until the 1990s;
1. The current president of the Texas state school board, Don McLeroy, is an outspoken extreme creationist (in his glowing review of Robert Bowie Johonson Jr.’s masterwork, “Sowing Atheism: The National Academy of Science’s Sinister Scheme to Teach Our Children That They’re Descended from Reptiles,” McElroy declared that “natural selection” is “nothing more than a figure of speech”) who has advocated that the state require school districts continue to discuss the “strengths and weakensses” of evolution as a way of back-dooring creationist theory. The rejection of his attempt two months ago to preserve this language means that the science of natural selection can now be taught openly in Texas schools for the first time ever;
2. The board itself is currently composed of 7 creationists, 7 people committed to scientific accounts, and 1 peerson who hasn’t decided about the subject, which was settled among biologists oh, say, a century ago;
3. A bill before the Texas state legislature now, filed by one Wayne Christian (R – Center), would prohibit teachers from grading science exams and essays based on students’ statements about scientific matters (say, the theory of relativity or plate techtonics) on the grounds that people disagree about these matters;
4. Over 94% of Texas school districts offer NO instruction on the topic of human sexuality other than just-say-no “abstinence” advocacy and in 10% of districts, explicit Christian teaching is the key component of these programs, with three Ft Worth school districts offering a homegrown curriculum advising youth that “we can be born again of the Almighty Himself” and that “you will be amazed when the ’sperm’ of His Spirit connects with the ‘ovum/egg’ of your spirit and you become a ‘new person’ with his characters;”
So generalizations about Texas, science, and religion are probably far from unwarranted. Texas has a stronger-than-usual fundamentalist presence, they are nutty, and they are powerful. We have a strong racist presence here, which embarrassingly showed up in the numbers from the last election, with many rural Texas voters supporting white Democratic candidates while voting for McCain, or leaving signs for other Democratic candidates sitting out but ripping up the signs for the presidential campaign (Obama signs), or loudly and vocally telling racist Obama jokes at local diners in places like Sherman and Bonham.
We are not the only state with these problems. We have them, however, and to pretend we don’t or that every other state has them to the same degree is to hide from reality.
Alan from Texas
Yesterday, Jay Tea wrote:
Today, Jay Tea wrote:
So, Jay Tea, are you being “accusatory” or “exculpatory” and what does it say about you, when you resort to name calling?
(and I am SOOOO not bored by pie fights!)
It’s simple, Strowbridge. “Asshole” is a generic insult; “Klansman” is a specific accusation.
And in my case, it’s because there really isn’t anything else to say. You’ve already made my points for me.
J.
Alan,
You’re a Texan, now! All right! Listen to Alan, he’s a very smart man.
I’m a Hick
(Formery JSA, Houston)
[...] tip, OW, whose headline reads: ”Texas Engages In A Whole New Breed Of Stupid: Master’s Degree For Creationism.” xxxevilgrinxxx, on March 19th, 2009 | Tags: creationism, education, Texas, wingnuts | | If you’re [...]
I don’t disagree that Texas has its problems – I lived there for five years in college, and still have some good friends there. But Oliver has a habit of tarring anything reactionary from the right as “southern” and it gets a bit tiresome.
And in my case, it’s because there really isn’t anything else to say.
So you’re exactly like Strowbridge on this point: “It shows that you resort to name-calling when you can’t do anything else.”
Thanks for clarifying that.
Wow… So, about 4% of comments are on topic. Is this typical of this blog?
“I don’t disagree that Texas has its problems – I lived there for five years in college, and still have some good friends there. But Oliver has a habit of tarring anything reactionary from the right as “southern” and it gets a bit tiresome.”
SQ,
I came to Texas (from Louisiana) to go to college 30 years ago, and I sympathize. A little OT, but my major contention has been that the “Southern Strategy” was directed as much towards Archie Bunker as it was towards Gomer Pyle. And Archie lived in Queens, not Mayberry.