’)As part of Fox News’ plan to hire the clearly deranged Glenn Beck, Fox News boss and former Republican operative Roger Ailes compared the network to the Alamo in its stand vs. President Obama. Let’s leave aside the notion of a television network designing itself in opposition to the president with the slogan “Fair and Balanced” for now, and let’s go to the tape on The Alamo.
Almost everyone at the Alamo died at the hands of Mexican soldiers. Should we tell Steve Doocy goodbye?
Yeah, let’s go to those history books. Santa Ana won at the Alamo.
And then what happened next? How’d he follow up on that great victory, where his army beat a group of Texans they outnumbered by about 10-1 — and still lost 2-3 soldiers for every Texan killed in battle.
While you’re looking up that answer, spend some time reading up on Pyrrhus. You might even see a few parallels.
Or if you don’t feel like reading, pop “300″ in your DVD and laugh at those stupid loser Spartans who got their asses kicked at Thermopylae.
J.
J.G.Thayer: “Yeah, let’s go to those history books. Santa Ana won at the Alamo.
And then what happened next?”
So Roger Ailes is going to be defeated, but eventually Obama will no longer be president… is that what we are supposed to take from your history lesson?
Yeah, I’m confident in predicting that in 8 years Obama will no longer be president.
I 8 years Fox will still be around. Roger Ailes, on the other hand… He might be involved in an involuntary retirement.
This is not a military conflict; in wars you can have two losers. Politics is a zero sum game. If one side loses, the other side wins. (Unless there’s a viable third party.)
Oh, come on, you didn’t even work in “southern strategy” there! You aren’t even trying!
Well, it’s still early in the discussion…
Yes, Santa Ana won at the Alamo. But at San Jacinto, he was humiliated, defeated, and captured. Further, his agenda — the subjugation of Texas — was thoroughly destroyed. He didn’t retire in honor.
To carry the analogy properly, Obama might — MIGHT — succeed in taking down Fox News, or talk radio. But his victory would serve as a rallying cry that will end up in him not merely retiring after two successful terms (Bush 2, Clinton, Reagan), but instead defeated and his cause discredited (Bush 1, Carter, Ford).
Personally, I think Ailes is being overly grandiose with his pronouncement. But it’s hardly a fatally flawed comparison, like Oliver proclaimed it.
J.
“Oh, come on, you didn’t even work in ’southern strategy’ there! You aren’t even trying!”
Which pretty much proves you are wrong about me always bringing it up. Then again, no one is surprised at that.
“Yes, Santa Ana won at the Alamo.”
And Roger Ailes declared in his analogy he was on the other side. It’s a stupid analogy.
“To carry the analogy properly, Obama might — MIGHT — succeed in taking down Fox News, or talk radio.”
Are you on fucking crack? Talk down talk radio?
You are grasping at straws to defend a stupid analogy.
Which pretty much proves you are wrong about me always bringing it up. Then again, no one is surprised at that.
I am, Southern Strategy. It’s been a day and a half. What gives? We all here enjoy it when Canadians write in to criticize us about racist conspiracy theories from 40 years ago.
And Jay Tea is not wrong about you always bringing it up.
Dennis: “I am, Southern Strategy. It’s been a day and a half. What gives? We all here enjoy it when Canadians write in to criticize us about racist conspiracy theories from 40 years ago.”
Two points…
1.) You are calling me Southern Strategy while acting like a bigot, again.
2.) The Southern Strategy is not a conspiracy theory, it is fact. Trent Lott even apologized for using it. And it is not from 40 years ago, it is still happening today. Trent Lott was forced to apologize for apologizing.
“And Jay Tea is not wrong about you always bringing it up.”
Wow. Just wow.
You just admitted I don’t bring it up all of the time, so how can he be right about me always bringing it up.
Are you trying to out-stupid him?
The subjugation of Texas, Jay?
IIRC, the newly formed country of Mexico, under the General Colonization Law, allowed all people living in Mexico, regardless of citizenship to claim land in its territories, including Texas. When Mexico tried to limit the immigration of more Americans into the Mexican state of Coahuila y Tejas the settlers revolted. Let it also be noted that restrictions on immigration were due in large part to the unwillingness of white settlers to assimilate into Mexican culture, and the forced removal of some native Mexicans from their land. Not to mention the issue of slavery, which Mexico had abolished but which the white Texans were intent on keeping alive.
You just admitted I don
You just admitted I don
All Ailes was saying is that America is in a desperate, “last stand” situation like the Alamo — but that he believes that with people like Beck fighting the fight to the end, things could instead turn out fine. He may be wrong about Beck’s capabilities, but his analogy is fine. You’re just twisting Ailes’ comments to distort their obvious meaning, much like the MSM has deliberately distorted Limbaugh’s comments about hoping that Obama will fail in implementing his policies.
Limbaugh: “Okay, I’ll send you a response, but I don’t need 400 words, I need four: I hope he fails.” (interruption) What are you laughing at? See, here’s the point. Everybody thinks it’s outrageous to say. Look, even my staff, “Oh, you can’t do that.” Why not? Why is it any different, what’s new, what is unfair about my saying I hope liberalism fails? Liberalism is our problem. Liberalism is what’s gotten us dangerously close to the precipice here. Why do I want more of it? I don’t care what the Drive-By story is. I would be honored if the Drive-By Media headlined me all day long: “Limbaugh: I Hope Obama Fails.” Somebody’s gotta say it. ”
Doesn’t look distorted to me. What hard leftist organization published this transcript? Rush Limbaugh.com.
Limbaugh: If I wanted Obama to succeed, I’d be happy the Republicans have laid down.
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_011609/content/01125113.guest.html
No distortion here.
Are these guys defending the Alamo analogy or am I on crack again?
Guess what happens in American politics when you put yourself in a minority position and hold tight no matter what until you are whittled down by the enormous tide of people that opposes you?
That’s right, you are remembered forever as martyrs for your courageous stand and that memory becomes a rallying cry that leads your comrades to victory! No, wait, that’s Texas Independence. In American Politics, it’s not so cool. Your best hope is to become a footnote to historians and forgotten by everyone else, usually on purpose.
Wow, well done S. Quaker. The Texans were obviously in the wrong, but conservatives don’t like to admit that.
OT, I know. But we history dorks gotta represent.
Ailes only concern is making money from his target market: the self pitying, reality challenged white male demographic. Ailes knows nothing about this demographically diverse America (a lot of posters here have the same problem)but he has the whining right down pat.
Ailes equating his views with the battle of the Alamo if a false analogy at best. He’s playing his audience and they yearn to beplayed. Any rational person can see that.
Ailes (Fox News) realizes that the “angry white guy” demographic is still a viable market (though shrinking) but when that market starts losing advertising dollars, Ailes will be out and Murdoch will strap-on a more “liberal” outlook.
The only way the Alamo could reflect the current situation is if Davey Crocket had led a charge into Santana’s forces, got half of them to join him, crushed the rest, then went from conquest to glorious conquest to become emperor of all Mexico.
Wasn’t Davey Crockett sick in bed during the attack?
People seem to forget that we stole Texas from Mexico, along with all points West, because they were out gunned, cheated and overwhelmed by Amercan incursions.
Roger Ailes and his minions have no such advantage. They tried and lost so now their devotees are wandering the desert of crazy.
Commandancy of the Alamo
Bexar, Feby. 24th 1836
To the People of Texas & all Americans in the world –
Fellow citizens & compatriots — I am besieged by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna.
I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man.
The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken. I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls — I shall never surrender or retreat.
Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch. The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country –
Victory or Death.
William Barret Travis
Lt. Col. Comdt.
Enlightened Liberal,
Could you please explain to me why you left out the introductory text I’ve boldfaced below from Limbaugh’s quote:
It seems to me that the prefatory language provides context essential to understanding what Limbaugh wants to fail. Did you simply overlook the language, or deliberately leave it out in an effort to be dishonest?
All Ailes was saying is that America is in a desperate, “last stand” situation like the Alamo
America is? Since when?
It seems to me that the prefatory language provides context essential to understanding what Limbaugh wants to fail.
Indeed it does. Limbaugh does not want economic recovery.
I mean, given that he’s just made a bunch of shit up.
Because that’s just simply false.
Jay Tea: Oh, come on, you didn’t even work in “southern strategy” there! You aren’t even trying!
And you left out ACORN. What’s your point?
Nothing makes me weep more that conservative victimhood.
Who will speak up for the straight white middle class American male? Shall they be ever voiceless?
What?! I can’t hear you!
So in response to his own strawman, he states that he wants the President of the United States to fail. That’s the context, that’s it. Do you want the President to fail? Yes or no?
Sheesh, EL, no room for nuance there, huh?
If I sincerely believe that Obama’s plans for this nation will be ruinous, then you’re damned straight I want him to fail at his plans. And I sincerely do, so I hope he fails — because if he succeeds, he will (most likely with the best of intentions) cause the nation great harm.
Do I want him to fail, overall? Hell, no.
J.
because if he succeeds, he will (most likely with the best of intentions) cause the nation great harm.
Given the last years as a guide, my morbid curiousity compels me to ask, how so?
Sorry.
Given the last 8 years as a guide..
Enlightened Liberal,
If you thought Limbaugh had created a strawman, why didn’t you quote the strawman language and explain why it was a strawman? Why did you just boldface “I hope it fails”? Do you want Obama to succeed in doing whatever he wants, no matter what it is? Yes or no?
Do you want Obama to succeed in doing whatever he wants, no matter what it is? Yes or no?
Strawmen = bad.
Ridiculously broad yes or no questions = good.
Check.
Henrietta G. Tavish says: “All Ailes was saying is that America is in a desperate, ‘last stand’ situation like the Alamo…”
I get that, but he should have chosen a better analogy.
It’s a strawman because he isn’t trying to absorb as much of the private sector as possible.
You still haven’t answered the question- do you want the President to fail? I want him to succeed because if he succeeds my country succeeds. Why do you hate America so much that you and Rush would rather see America fail than see a black president succeed?
Is there anything Republicans can’t fuck up on these days?
Yes, Jaim — those places where Obama and the Democrats have staked out their turf. “Smart diplomacy,” paying taxes, filling the Cabinet, cornering the market on TelePrompter R&D…
J.
Jay Tea: cornering the market on TelePrompter R&D
You really should drop that. So what if he relies on TelePrompter a lot? The economy is failing, we’ve still got two wars going on and one of your biggest complaints is the President uses notes when he speaks.
It makes you look petty.
Well you all must remember when John McCain totally pwned Barack Obama in the three debates because Obama didn’t have a teleprompter to lean on. OH WAIT THAT NEVER HAPPENED.
Dude, Axl Rose uses a teleprompter.
Let it go.