That was the final word in a Twitter conversation I had with MSNBC’s conservative host, Joe Scarborough. 
Basically Joe was proud of himself for advocating a return to non-utopian foreign policy, and I asked him how he reconciled that with his support for the Iraq War. To which Joe essentially responded that his support was okay because he was for the “Wilsonian” version of the war in which the sole goal was getting WMD and killing Hussein, but then I asked what would be more utopian than assuming killing Hussein would make everything all better?
And that’s when he told me “I have talked about it on TV for several years” and that I should buy his upcoming book.
So that settles it.*
* Except you don’t get to pick and choose. Joe was for the war and the entire Bush prosecution of the war. Joe was for the utopian nonsense George W. Bush was for, and so was — and is — the failing conservative movement.
Joe used to worship 43 every night on his KMart O’Reailly Factor show
The Republican party is lost & confused. I don’t like Joe. Joe just don’t want to admit Bush was wrong for going into War. There were no WMD, and they knew it b4 hand, & Sadam Hussein did not attack our country on 911. They attacked the wrong ppl & the one’s that attack our country are still out there. So, Bush & Joe’s so call reasoning was wrong. Hypocrites. Inaddition, Joe was advocating his book when he told you-you should buy his upcoming book.
Nice catch O-dub.
Sorry, little Hassan, but at least the bomb that blew up your house and killed your parents was dropped with the most Wilsonian of intentions.
he was for the “Wilsonian” version of the war in which the sole goal was getting WMD and killing Hussein
and being greeted as liberators.
I read the whole exchange, and I don’t get it. That is, I don’t get why you engage in this kind of back and forth with someone wed to ignorance. To argue with Scar about this, you have to suspend reality and accept a false version of history where “everyone” thought Saddam had WMDs and that it was an act of self-defense (according to him, the non-utopian part of the war.) Not mentioned is that the administration purposely went out of their way to concoct this rationale to fit a pre-existing agenda that dates back to the early 90s. The fact that many were fooled into thinking there was an imminent threat does not make that threat real, and only highlights how criminal Bush’s actions were. So shouldn’t the correct approach be to call Scarborough an idiot and a fool and move on?
why didn’t you ask him about his dead intern? he won’t return my emails.
I used to enjoy Morning Joe, but since the Inauguration he’s just gotten shrill and nasty. I guess his party being irrelevant is too much for him.
Dear God,
You’ve done it again – thanks so much!
“You don’t get to pick and choose.” Hilarious!
Oliver wants to tell me that only conservatives have to hold and be hanged by their positions forever. There’s never any adjustment allowed for Joe Scarborough.
But forgiveness and dismissal are readily available if he ever wants to come over to Oliver’s side of the swamp.
Just ask Gerry Studds, Charlie Rangel, Al Franken, Timothy Geithner, Joe Biden, Robert Byrd, Teddy Kennedy, Dianne Feinstein, Roland Burris, John Kerry, John Murtha, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Bill Richardson, William Jefferson, and all the rest of the scandal plagued, corrupt Democrats who get to “pick and choose” which laws to obey, which taxes to pay, which secrets to betray, which boys to seduce, which interns to diddle, which girls to drown, which bribes to take, which racist statements to make, which war votes to drop down the memory hole, and which lobbyists to shake down.
You don’t get to pick and choose?
Lord, that is priceless!
Another day, another belly laugh from OliverWillis.com.
Heavenly genius!
Amen.
In Joe’s defense, the war did seem like a good idea to anybody without google and a free half-hour to do a little research.
“In Joe’s defense, the war did seem like a good idea to anybody without google and a free half-hour to do a little research.” –Parthenon
There’s really nothing at all about this thread that is in Joe’s defense. I’m not a Twitter guy, but it seems a bit on the sleazy side to have one or two quick comments on it get posted on a blog so he can be ripped apart. Like when bloggers get asked to appear on a tv or radio show and don’t get to say what they wanted to say or the way the wish they had phrased something, or that they were burned and didn’t get to respond, then they go on their blog and say what an ass the other guy was. Just doesn’t seem like cricket to me.
Seems like telling someone who doesn’t understand your position to read your book for better clarification is not a bad response to someone who seems to be looking for a gotcha moment or a perceived inconsistency in your logic and not trying to honestly get to know you better.
But that’s just me- I don’t know what the Twitter protocol is.
Seems like telling someone who doesn’t understand your position to read your book for better clarification
Two points, amigo:
1) Sending somebody to your book means they have to go buy your book. Which is just a little used-car salesman sleazy, to me.
2) It appears to me that OW gave him every opportunity to explain his position. I don’t know how well that could be done over twitter, but it’s presumptuous to assume OW was out to get him.
From mediocre attorney to a one term, mediocre congressman looking for relevence in a party gone mad and not finding that relevence, he becomes a mediocre partisan hack on TeeVee.
He’s a weasel and I think OW’s little talk with him just reinforced that image.
Sorry if I offended any weasels.
Sending somebody to your book means they have to go buy your book. Which is just a little used-car salesman sleazy, to me. Parthy
Just saying it looks like from me that conversing on Twitter about a how you stand now vs, how you stood before on Iraq is not the best of forums for seeing eye to eye. All I’m saying is if it were me and I had a little back and forth one-sentence lines with someone I wouldn’t go back to my blog and share it with everyone and let them rip that person to shreds, as if you guys needed an excuse to do that. I would, if I thought I had found a major inconsistency in his thinking, yes, go out and buy the book and see what he writes and if it was inconsistent with what he just Twittered, then I’d write about that.
And new books can be gotten easily at just about any public library system, Parthy. I do it all the time. It’s EZPZ. The new one’s you have to read in two weeks usually, because someone behind you is waiting on it. Especially the conservative tomes.
Two month waiting list now for Atlas Shrugged.
Parthenon:
1) Sending somebody to your book means they have to go buy your book. Which is just a little used-car salesman sleazy, to me.
I would also add, that if you need an entire fucking book to rationalize your support for a war so obviously rooted in falsehoods from the very beginning, you reek of desperation (and are desperately trying to stay relevant.)
Borrow a book from the library, Dennis? Strikes me as a little socialist. Not to mention the irony of borrowing Atlas Shrugs from a library.
Anyone else kind of snickering at the idea of libertarians taking Ayn Rand books out from the public library?
Exactly bvac, if you can’t defend your rationale, “read my book, which comes out in a few months” is nothing more than a weak dodge. I can’t understand why people can’t just say “I was wrong”. It’s not hard. You can even put blame in there “I was wrong, I didn’t think Bush and co would do such a shitty job, and that was my mistake..” – see, you’re admitting some error while putting most of the blame on someone else. It’s worked for the smarter conservative (and “liberal hawk”) pundits… Hell, isn’t that more or less the Hillary Clinton line?
Two month waiting list now for Atlas Shrugged.
You’re kidding, right?
Here ya go.
You can even get one used.
Not to mention the irony of borrowing Atlas Shrugs from a library.
Dear God
Thanks for that.
Your pal,
Duros
Not to mention the irony of borrowing Atlas Shrugs from a library. Duros62
That one I own, Duros. And refer to often. And yes, kidding about the 2 month waiting list, though the book is making a comeback. Funny thing though, a lot of my friends and co-workers seem to be disappearing lately and leaving no forwarding address.
Funny thing though, a lot of my friends and co-workers seem to be disappearing lately and leaving no forwarding address.
Can’t say I blame them.
And yes, kidding about the 2 month waiting list, though the book is making a comeback.
Is this another one of those “It didn’t happen but it could have” moments?
Funny thing though, a lot of my friends and co-workers seem to be disappearing lately and leaving no forwarding address.
Ummm, not sure I see a connection. Is there one?
Why wait for a book (Atlas Shrugs)that promotes a now soundly discredited social theory?
Any “comeback” is due to curiosity because of the references made to the book’s contribution to the thinking behind our current social and economic mess.
Ummm, not sure I see a connection. Is there one?
Duros, I can’t speak for Dennis, but IIRC in the book all the awesome independent rugged Republicans (the wet dreams of Amused Observer, in other words) depart the world and leave it in the hands of the unproducing, whiny Democrat welfare queens and society implodes.
They kill themselves and leave us in peace?
Sweet!
They kill themselves and leave us in peace?
Sweet! Duros62
Sometimes it appears from reading lib blogs that all liberals think that way, not just you guys. People who pay in godly amounts of taxes and donate to charity are scumbags to you if they don’t vote Democrat. They’re the ones you want to say STFU to if they question just what the heck is Obama doing with this massive stimulus program. You think they should not have a voice no matter what their greater good is to society as a whole.
Not what I said at all, Denny.
Don’t know what you’re talking about.
Hey, Dennis, if you liked Atlas Shrugged, you’ll LOVE Atlas Shrugged 2: One Hour Later.
Zython says: “Hey, Dennis, if you liked Atlas Shrugged, you’ll LOVE Atlas Shrugged 2: One Hour Later.”
I love that cartoon.
I also love listening to Randians argue about the virtue of that book ON THE FUCKING INTERNET.