You remember how those conservatives flipped out when former Presidents and Vice Presidents like Clinton, Gore, and especially Carter would offer up their opinions. The crying and howling about how it violated protocol? Barack Obama hasn’t been president for a full month yet.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney warned that there is a “high probability” that terrorists will attempt a catastrophic nuclear or biological attack in coming years, and said he fears the Obama administration’s policies will make it more likely the attempt will succeed.
In an interview Tuesday with Politico, Cheney unyieldingly defended the Bush administration’s support for the Guantanamo Bay prison and coercive interrogation of terrorism suspects.
And he asserted that President Obama will either backtrack on his stated intentions to end those policies or put the country at risk in ways more severe than most Americans—and, he charged, many members of Obama’s own team—understand.
“When we get people who are more concerned about reading the rights to an Al Qaeda terrorist than they are with protecting the United States against people who are absolutely committed to do anything they can to kill Americans, then I worry,” Cheney said.
Now, I don’t care if Cheney pipes up – removing all doubt, etc. – but it’s hilarious to me that the presidential team who presided over the worst terror attack in the entire 233 year history of this nation has styled themselves as expert in preventing terror attacks. And nobody in the MSM has the balls to clal them on it.
Why should the US public give a tinker’s dam about what a probable war criminal thinks?
Pertinent, on-topic and an unquestionable and absolute must-read no matter what side of the fence you’re on:
The Impending Obama Meltdown
-Victor Davis Hanson
Some of us have been warning that it was not healthy for the U.S. media to have deified rather than questioned Obama, especially given that they tore apart Bush, ridiculed Palin, and caricatured Hillary. And now we can see the results of their two years of advocacy rather than scrutiny.
We are quite literally after two weeks teetering on an Obama implosion—and with no Dick Morris to bail him out—brought on by messianic delusions of grandeur, hubris, and a strange naivete that soaring rhetoric and a multiracial profile can add requisite cover to good old-fashioned Chicago politicking.…
Oh please. Victor Davis Handjob sees Obama as the fall of American civilization… News at 11…
Oh please. Victor Davis Handjob sees Obama as the fall of American civilization… News at 11…
…”messianic delusions of grandeur, hubris, and a strange naivete”
Obama’s kind of on that path so far, Oliver, in just barely over two weeks. Now project that out another year or so and as our VP you once called a ‘Farkin’ Idiot’ said, “Gird your loins”.
Then maybe get in the way-back machine and look up the first two weeks of Bush’s presidency. Compare. Contrast.
Rinse. Repeat.
Victor Hanson. LOL. Absolute LOL.
Victor Hanson. LOL. Absolute LOL.,
C’mon, Jaim, for once, be Sweden about it. Or at least read it and make, what at least for you would be, an intelligent response.
He lost me at “Victor Davis Hanson”. When he comes to town, the strawmen cower in fear.
No matter how hard you try to read it, a crazy person flinging poo on the street is still a crazy person flinging poo on the street.
A must read? If you need proof that Hanson is delusional.
Dennis, Hanson is trafficking in all sorts of hyperbole, speculation, xenophobia, and hysteria. He seems to be making the point that “Daschle withdrew, it’s the end of the Obama administration!”
Why on earth do you consider this twaddle a “must read”?
…”messianic delusions of grandeur, hubris, and a strange naivete” Obama’s kind of on that path so far, Oliver, in just barely over two weeks.
You’re nuts. So is Hanson. And so is Hanson’s editor.
Hanson’s article is a list of predictable conservative whinging that, pace Jay Tea, Hanson “had this article written out before the voting started.”
I suppose none you idiots caught the part where Hanson suggests that part of Obama’s problem is his continuation of Bush era policies:
So according to Cheney, Obama’s policies will make sure were hit by terrorists again, only according to Hanson, those policies are Bush’s policies. Okey Dokey.
So after to weeks in office Hanson already predicts “the greatest conservative populist reaction since the Reagan Revolution.” Um yeah.
Can you say hack? This is the kind of shit even Hugh Hewitt deletes as over the top.
Quaker in a Basement-
He lost me at “Victor Davis Hanson”.
Basically every response so far is repeating this line, save for the one point you made, which was a ‘he seems tp be saying’ one. No, he didn’t seem to be saying anything. He pointed out specifics. Many of them. Far more of them than what happened to what you guys call ‘the worst President ever’ in his first two and a half weeks. The specifics you guys would prefer ignoring in lieu of discussing the latest story about Joe The Plumber. Specifics that if you weren’t still mired in those same …”messianic delusions of grandeur, hubris, and a strange naivete”, you’d realize we are all in this together and a Colonel Klink mindset will get us nowhere fast. Or worse.
The Vice President makes a harmless little quip about the Chief Justice, and this is ‘ridicule?’ If Roberts was offended by that, remind me to steal his lunch money when I see him next.
Only in Crazytown.
If Roberts was offended by that, remind me to steal his lunch money when I see him next.
It was Biden’s new boss who appeared offended, or at least not amused at all by it, Parthy.
then I worry,” Cheney said.
Your concern has been noted. Dick.
—and with no Dick Morris to bail him out—
BWAHAHAHAHA!
So cheney and Handjob join forces with Rush and Hannity in hoping America fails.
Country First, right?
Frak you.
pointed out specifics. Many of them. Far more of them than what happened to what you guys call ‘the worst President ever’ in his first two and a half weeks.
No, he didn’t. He made lists and then used them as a platform to leap to conclusions.
Wake me when Mr. Obama invades a country.
Specifics that if you weren’t still mired in those same …”messianic delusions of grandeur, hubris, and a strange naivete”,
Is my hour up yet, Dr. Freud?
”messianic delusions of grandeur, hubris, and a strange naivete” Obama’s kind of on that path so far, Oliver, in just barely over two weeks.
You’re nuts. So is Hanson. And so is Hanson’s editor. –fafaru
“People think I’m cool” –Barack Obama
And then just yesterday apologizing for the lack of vetting that his minions used ad nauseum to lambaste John McCain and admitting that he ’screwed up’ just barely two weeks in to his presidency, and people here who for the most part don’t think Daschle did anything wrong, even though Obama certainly must have. And the OW blog undying faithful response, you ask?
“Oh, how refreshing!”
‘Messianic delusions, hubris, and strange naivete’ is putting it mildly. That’s why I thought it might elicit an objective response from at least one or two people here.
Is my hour up yet, Dr. Freud?
Just go get a Rx of Xanax from your GP, Quibbie. You’re going to need it. Ask for a 4 year monthly rolling renewal, too.
He pointed out specifics. Many of them. Far more of them than what happened to what you guys call ‘the worst President ever’ in his first two and a half weeks.
Dude. All of his “specifics” are nothing more than right wing talking points. Talking points, mind you, that were in place before the election: Obama’s naive! Obama’s arrogant! Obama’s inexperienced!
Yeah, well, Obama’s doing just fine.
If Hanson wants to start screaming “worst president ever”two weeks in, he’s going to have a long eight years.
I for one am grateful that President Obama has kept us safe from terrorism for 15 days now. I might also remind Dennis that you can’t support the troops without supporting their Commander-in-Chief. Why does he hate America so much?
‘Messianic delusions, hubris, and strange naivete’ is putting it mildly. That’s why I thought it might elicit an objective response from at least one or two people here.
Why the fuck would you expect an objective response to that?
Yeah, well, Obama’s doing just fine.
–fa fa fa fa fa, fa fa fa fa fafa-roooo
Run run run run run run run away
Shorter fafaroo: “I see nothinkk. I know nothinkk.”
Why the fuck would you expect an objective response to that?
Because maybe I thought that a couple of you at least might be willing to follow somewhat Obama’s lead from yesterday and admit that you also made a mistake in your excessive adulation and your willful ignorance of his woeful inexperience.
I made a mistake in making that assumption. I made an error.
I was wrong.
Why does he hate America so much?–Un-Enlightened Libbie
Oh, snap, Unenlightened, you bested me.
Please keep talking. I always yawn when I’m interested.
Yeesh.
Worst Vice President Ever Pipes Up
Aaron Burr, Richard Nixon, Lyndon Johnson, Spiro Agnew, Dan Quayle, and Joe Biden have signed a joint letter to you, Oliver:
“Your hyperbole is showing.”
J.
Wow, seeing a comment by Dennis next to a comment by Jay Tea really makes me appreciate Jay Tea’s trolling. At least he brings his A-game. Dennis on the other hand is like someone vomiting on a keyboard.
I’m sorry for all the cruel things I said in the past Jay Tea, I didn’t realize that there would be a Dennis out there to make you look rational in comparison.
I made a mistake in making that assumption. I made an error.
I was wrong.
Well, that’s a start.
I don’t believe I ever expressed “excessive adulation” or “willful ignorance of his woeful inexperience.” So, no, I don’t think I could be objective about your subjective premise, no.
I’ll repeat what I said throughout the campaign season: NO ONE has experience to be President. NO one. Except an incumbent President. And given the second term of the last one, not even then.
I appreciate your veiled attempt to be fair and righteous, but we see right through you.
And Hanson. And Dick Cheney.
Dennis on the other hand is like someone vomiting on a keyboard.
You must have missed the salad days of Dr. Pedro and TV’s Frank.
*and by “TV’s Frank” I mean television. Not, you know…
“Your hyperbole is showing.”
And I’m sure it’s true that Obama “ignored” the Kentucky ice storm.
You’re hypocrisy is showing, Jay Tea.
So Viktor Davis Thucydides Leonidas Clausewitz Hanson thinks the Obama admin is failing because it has made a few less than optimal picks for cabinet positions, and his approval ratings are “tanking”? Let’s go to the wayback machine shall we?
GW Bush approval rating within his first 100 days: 62%, after having “not proposed a great deal of new legislation in its first 100 days” (i.e, doing next to nothing except possibly blowing off the Kyoto accords and the anti-ballistic missile treaty), and “benefited from low expectations when he entered office. ‘He has not said anything stupid, and he has not done anything stupid, and that’s what most people expected to happen,’”
At this rating level we are told Bush is “very popular”, after having come into office with no major crises confronting him, and robust post-Clinton economy.
Obama approva rating after his first FOURTEEN days: Between 75% and 68% depending on the pollster and question. (And before our wingnut trolls come back with the expexted “Well that first one is Daily Kos poll, it’s obviously a lie” note that the poll was taken by polling firm Research2000, not the Great Orange Satan, and the full crosstabs are available).
At this rating level, equal to or higher than Bush’s, after having come into office inheriting multiple leftover Republican manufactured disasters and the weakest economy in decades, VDH tells us Obama is already tanking.
Keep tilting at those windmills you shiny wingnuts!
Viktor Davis Thucydides Leonidas Clausewitz Hanson
Bestest. Porn. Name. EVAR!!11!!
I’m sorry for all the cruel things I said in the past Jay Tea, I didn’t realize that there would be a Dennis out there to make you look rational in comparison.–(Obviously) Long-time lurker, first time commenter Michael Over Here
Jay Tea is much better at this. I just try to fill in while he’s out educating the masses in more important ways.
It was Biden’s new boss who appeared offended, or at least not amused at all by it, Parthy.
Be that as it may, it was still stupid, not something for which the word ‘ridicule’ is even remotely appropriate.
“Your hyperbole is showing.”
I’ve yet to see Cheney’s ranking as rendered by the experts, just that CNN poll that said 23% of respondents thought he was the worst. Out of 43 administrations, that’s kind of startling, though it may be raised a bit by virtue of being so recent.
In any case, I’ll wait for the historians/political scientists on that subjective label, though I’m guessing he’ll rank in at least the bottom 5-10.
Add me to the list of those who would prefer more Jay Tea and less (or no) Dennis. I don’t agree with Jay Tea, but Dennis fails the Turing test (if you threw him in the Loebner Prize as the human, I’d pick him for a computer by question 7, he’s no elbot).
VDH for teh fail!
So Viktor Davis Thucydides Leonidas Clausewitz Hanson thinks the Obama admin is failing because it has made a few less than optimal picks for cabinet positions, and his approval ratings are “tanking”?–Rheinhard
Juuuuu-st a little bit more than that, Herr Rheinhard.
——-
Rasmussen: Support for Stimulus Package Falls to 37%
Support for the economic recovery plan working its way through Congress has fallen again this week. For the first time, a plurality of voters nationwide oppose the $800-billion-plus plan.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that 37% favor the legislation, 43% are opposed, and 20% are not sure.
Two weeks ago, 45% supported the plan. Last week, 42% supported it.
Opposition has grown from 34% two weeks ago to 39% last week and 43% today.
————————
Obama is doing just fine. What the hell is VDH talking about??? Dude must be doin’ a Michael Phelps.
Fafaroo, if you read my article on Obama and the ice storm, I wasn’t denouncing his lack of expression of concern, merely contrasting the general public reaction to its absence with that of Bush. I don’t think Obama has issued a single statement of sympathy or support for the people of Arkansas and Kentucky, but that’s OK with me — I don’t think it’s absolutely necessary for the president to do that each and every time.
And I say that as someone who’s been through some particularly nasty ice storms here in New Hampshire.
Where is the wall-to-wall media coverage, though? Where are the celebrities denouncing the FEMA response and talking about how Barack Obama hates white people? Where are the fundraisers, the tractor trailers full of road salt and portable heaters?
I guess it’s too bad that Kentucky isn’t as accessible as Louisiana, that freezing in the dark isn’t as photogenic as clinging to a roof, that thousands of rural people aren’t as easy to interview or video as thousands of urban people.
For the record: I think the response so far has been about as good as it can be, and I truly feel bad for the folks suffering under the ice storm. As I said, I’ve kinda been there (nowhere near as bad, of course, but a friend of mine was powerless for over a week recently from an ice storm), and it’s very, very hard when you have no power, no phone, and you can’t even travel because the roads are impassable.
Thank heavens that the people of Kentucky are, for the most part, hardy, self-sufficient folks. This is the kind of time that calls for that.
J.
Check back in 4 years, Jay, and see if those folks in Kentucky still don’t have power or a place to live or an entire neighborhood.
Re Jay Tea at 1:52:
In your third paragraph, you ask questions. In your fourth, you answer them. What do you need us for?
Shorter
Podhoretz rim-jobberJay:Even though one ice storm does not affect Kentucky the same way a CATEGORY FIVE HURRICANE affected New Orleans, I just hate Barrack Hussein X Obama and I’m willing to sacrifice what little dignity I have left on the altar of that hatred.
Hey asshole, you forgot something:
Kentucky governor: Obama people ‘hit the ground running’ on storm
Not too shabby, PD, but you missed a few things:
1) Katrina was NOT Cat 5 when she hit NO.
2) Kentucky is NOT afflicted with inept Democratic “leadership” like Nagin and Blanco.
3) Kentucky has not been the victim of literally decades of corrupt and inept leadership like Louisiana has.
4) I am NOT saying that Obama’s response to the ice storm was inadequate, just contrasting the reporting of it with that of Katrina.
5) I don’t hate Obama. I just see him for what he is — strengths and weaknesses. As I’ve said, the federal response has been appropriate, and Obama deserves praise for that.
The reporting of the situation, however, is deeply, deeply tainted.
J.
Kentucky wasn’t under 15 feet of water,
Just sayin’.
Could we at least ignore trolls after they start praising each other?
“Dennis says:
February 4, 2009 at 1:29 pm
… Jay Tea is much better at this. I just try to fill in while he’s out educating the masses in more important ways.”
Jay, I just explained to you about the media coverage. Well, kinda explained it. You said it yourself.
That KY isn’t as accessible as LA, that freezing in the dark isn’t as photogenic, and people in rural areas aren’t as easy to interview.
The news media is a “for-profit” industry, dipshit. When coverage will get them ratings, they’ll cover it. When the events are less dramatic or harder to “sell” as advertising-bait, or more difficult and more expensive to cover, they won’t.
“Where is the wall-to-wall media coverage, though? Where are the celebrities denouncing the FEMA response and talking about how Barack Obama hates white people? Where are the fundraisers, the tractor trailers full of road salt and portable heaters?”
Dude. You answered your own question:
For the record: I think the response so far has been about as good as it can be, and I truly feel bad for the folks suffering under the ice storm.
The response to Katrina was most definitely not as good as it could have been.
Anyway, back to the topic at hand, Cheney is engaging in the worst of right-wing hyperbole.
The false choice pops out at me first- when Gitmo closes, the detainees won’t instantly be released. The ones where there is evidence will be held for trial. If there is no evidence, they may be released. If those detainees later commit terrorist acts, it can be blamed on… the Bush administration who failed to compile evidence to convict.
Anyway, since Cheney now blames Obama for any terrorist attack from now until the end of time (or the next Democratic president, which ever comes first), is he then admitting that 9/11 was his fault, since it came on his watch?
Hey Mr. Cheney, America just isn’t that into you anymore.
4) I am NOT saying that Obama’s response to the ice storm was inadequate, just contrasting the reporting of it with that of Katrina…As I’ve said, the federal response has been appropriate, and Obama deserves praise for that.
Really? You wrote this at Commentary:
Jay Tea, if you don’t think that FEMA or Obama has done anything wrong in this instance, why are you wondering about the media’s failure to cover “Obama’s indifference”?
You’re basically saying, “There’s no story here but that only proves the media is biased because they aren’t making a story up.”
There was a story with the Katrina response, which was dreadful. In this case, everything that can be done is being done with, I expect, more to come.
What exactly is your problem?
“So Viktor Davis Thucydides Leonidas Clausewitz Hanson thinks the Obama admin is failing because it has made a few less than optimal picks for cabinet positions, and his approval ratings are “tanking”?–Rheinhard
Dennis blurted
Juuuuu-st a little bit more than that, Herr Rheinhard.
——-
Rasmussen: Support for Stimulus Package Falls to 37%”
Ah, but that isn’t Obama’s approval rating is it? Please respond only after putting back the goalposts where Rheinhard left them please.
Shorter fafaroo: “I see nothinkk. I know nothinkk.”
Right. And mindlessly repeating everything Victor Davis Hanson says is evidence of thought.
What Hanson wrote about Obama’s national security policies to date, directly contradicts what Cheney says above.
Hanson:
Cheney:
If you want to try to reconcile these two hack positions, I’m sure there’s some Uber Hack Award awaiting you.
I just try to fill in while he’s out educating the masses in more important ways.”
Jay can fling his own poop; he doesn’t need your help, nugget.
But since no one is objecting this time around, what does that say about the motives behind the outrage over Katrina?
I cannot believe you wrote this stuff. Katrina and the aftermath were quite possibly the worst natural disaster since Galveston in the 1930’s. There really is no comparison to an ice storm in Kentucky.
Perhaps if our infrastructure was tightened up a bit, not ignored or sold off to the lowest bidder, it would have been easier to get people’s electricity turned back on.
But since no one is objecting this time around, what does that say about the motives behind the outrage over Katrina?
Since no one has any actual objection to the performance of FEMA this time around, what does that say about your outrage?
Sheesh, fafaroo. Can’t you read?
I said BY THAT STANDARD. I was challenging and rejecting that standard.
And I’ll go back to my original comment here: is Oliver really saying that Cheney was worse than Burr or Agnew?
I dunno if that’s stupid, ignorant, or nuts.
Not that the three are mutually exclusive…
J.
Since no one has any actual objection to the performance of FEMA this time around, what does that say about your outrage? QIB
Quaker, it is not ‘no one’. I am from that area, just across the border in Southern Indiana. My best friend lives in a small town in W. Ky in one of the worst hit areas, and he told me just this afternoon that FEMA is nowhere to be found there. He’s not ready to start looting the local grocery and electronics stores, but he ain’t too happy right now either.
My best friend lives in a small town in W. Ky in one of the worst hit areas, and he told me just this afternoon that FEMA is nowhere to be found there.
I’ll have to take your word for it. Googling “Dennis’ best friend” isn’t getting me anywhere.
As someone who survived the great ice storm of aught-nine, I have to agree with Duros. The scope of the disaster here in Kentucky can in no way be compared to the aftermath of Katrina in New Orleans. Most of us got our power back on in 48-72 hours, folks have access to shelter and food, and no one is aiming shot guns to prevent people from crossing a bridge to a safer location.
And Jay Tea, you might want to fact check a bit before you post. Kentucky’s legislature is largely Democratic and we have had a Democratic governor since 07, when the corrupt Republican SOB was thrown out on his ear.
And Jay Tea, you might want to fact check a bit before you post. Kentucky’s legislature is largely Democratic and we have had a Democratic governor since 07, when the corrupt Republican SOB was thrown out on his ear.
I just assumed Mr. Tea was allowing that there is such a thing as a competent Dem.
There have been plenty of competent Democrats. There used to be more, but the great purging of the past few years of those not sufficiently ideologically pure (Lieberman and Miller come to mind).
And I never specified the affiliation of Nagin and Blanco. Yes, they are Democrats, but their incompetence trumps party. Instead of saying I should check facts I don’t cite, Quaker, perhaps you should try reading what is actually written. Putting words in my mouth and then denouncing me for what I never said… that’s Jaim’s trick, and he might get touchy if you start infringing on his shtick.
J.
is Oliver really saying that Cheney was worse than Burr or Agnew?
I’m gonna go with yes.
What’s next?
Of course, now that Cheney has popped out of his undisclosed location, we’ll have 6 more weeks of winter.
great purging of the past few years of those not sufficiently ideologically pure (Lieberman and Miller come to mind).
Holy Joe? Purged?
We wish!
Instead of saying I should check facts I don’t cite, Quaker,
Two of us here, Mr. Tea. Be specific.
Good God. I even have to correct his whining for him.
And I never specified the affiliation of Nagin and Blanco.
Ahem
2) Kentucky is NOT afflicted with inept Democratic “leadership” like Nagin and Blanco.
Dang… I got my articles mixed up. Fair cop, Quaker. Forgot what I wrote where — and the thought of scrolling up and double-checking escaped me. Probably too technically challenging — I’m a hardware guy, dammit.
But note that “inept” is a modifier, and carries the implication that there are “ept” Democrats around. Even you must admit that Nagin and Blanco set new records for their incompetence.
And I’d be curious to hear just what Cheney did that compares with Burr’s killing of Alexander Hamilton or Spiro Agnew’s taking bribes in his office.
J.
And what does any of this have to do with the fact that cons were all over Carter, Gore and Clinton for making public statements that might be construed as undermining the presidency, and yet here we have the former VP stating outright that Obama has made American less safe. Where’s the outrage?
Tell you what–you own up to the fact that he’s way out of line and we’ll allow that there were one or two who might have been worse.
Deal?
Quaker, I figured I’d lost the “ex-presidents should be seen and not heard, and not often seen” argument a while ago. Now I only limit it to when they start coming up against the Logan Act.
Your side won that fight. Why do you want to keep re-fighting it?
Oh, and before you accuse me of hypocrisy, let me quote that great philosopher, Malcolm Reynolds: “May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.”
J.
I said BY THAT STANDARD. I was challenging and rejecting that standard.
Wait. What standard? You wrote:
WTF is “The Katrina Standard” in your mind? FEMA’s response to Katrina was a complete disaster in itself. That’s why people were blaming FEMA. Local and state authorities were overwhelmed, turned to FEMA and FEMA dropped the ball. That’s exactly why Bush took heat for its response.
That isn’t what’s happening here. FEMA hasn’t reached all places in the state yet but it’s on the ground and no one is really complaining about its response. Indeed, they’re praising it.
So what standard are you rejecting? The standard by which FEMA gets the blame if FEMA fucks up?
Um, okay.
Forgot what I wrote where — and the thought of scrolling up and double-checking escaped me. Probably too technically challenging — I’m a hardware guy, dammit.
And you consider your mouse and/or keyboard pieces of software?
No, but I consider what appears on the monitor software. It’s not like adding a hard drive or swapping out a video card or upgrading RAM.
I’ve built and re-built literally dozens of computers, from the ground up. But when I was at Wizbang, there was a stretch where I “broke” the main page at least once a week. In this case, I confused what I posted as a comment here, what I posted as a comment elsewhere, and what I was writing in an article of my own.
(shrug) I did it. I wish I didn’t, but I did. Not the first time I’ve made a mistake, far from the last. I’ll just have to be a bit more careful when I’m citing myself.
J.
He’s not ready to start looting the local grocery and electronics stores, but he ain’t too happy right now either.
Dennis, would you like to elaborate on this comment?
No, but I consider what appears on the monitor software.
ROFLMAO. And there we have it. Jay Tea cannot check his facts because, well, the internet is software and he’s a hardware guy.
Fantastic. Good to know. And here I thought it was because you were a lazy ass.
Your side won that fight. Why do you want to keep re-fighting it?
Why? Because the same people who yelled so loud when Mr. Carter spoke up are now staring off into the air.
Back to the topic at hand, Cheney was America’s worst vice president ever because he didn’t understand his Constitutional duties. He tried to make his office into an extra-Constitutional “shadow” operation.
The Veep serves as an assistant to the POTUS. He breaks ties in the Senate, but he is not in the legislative branch. He is purely a functionary of the executive branch. Perhaps most importantly, he’s second in line if the POTUS dies or is similarly incapacitated.
Quayle was an idiot, but he understood his Constitutional mandate. For the most part, the Veep has very little power under the Constitution with the huge exception of the death of the POTUS.
Al Gore started the trend of Veeps being highly visible and pushing their own initiatives. This doesn’t strike me as a bad thing, but they don’t have any Constitutional mandate to “make it so” other than making speeches and working behind the scenes with Congressional allies and, of course, the president. Of course, historically the POTUS and the Veep have been enemies and/or rivals more often than not. Again, Clinton and Gore set a standard for a close working relationship that didn’t really exist throughout the 20th century. (Kennedy and LBJ hated each other. Hell, even FDR and Truman didn’t really get along.)
There used to be more, but the great purging of the past few years of those not sufficiently ideologically pure (Lieberman and Miller come to mind).
If by purge you mean they allied themselves with the right and in both cases supported the Republican candidate for president in 2004 (Miller) and 2008 (Both), then you’re right. Go check out Redstate and Limbaugh for who’s pursuing idealogical purity right about now. How about those Northeastern Republicans? Yeah.
Actually, Oliver, I was referring to how the Democratic apparatus decided to back Lieberman’s challenger, Ned Lamont.
Jaim, amazingly, gets something almost right. The duties of the vice president, are best defined by the words of John McCain: the vice president has only two duties: to break a tie vote in the Senate and to inquire daily about the health of the president. Since then, one more duty has been added: overseeing the space program.
Everything else the veep does is done by the grace of their president, who decides what duties to delegate to him — if any. Gore was given environmental policy and governmental reform. Cheney was given a hefty role in national security.
Cheney did bring up a fascinating point, though: the only actual power of the vice president is strictly legislative in nature, and spelled out in the Constitution in the Article that governs the legislative branch. It really is obvious that the Founding Fathers didn’t give the vice-presidency much thought. Hell, they initially wanted it to be filled by the loser of the election. Can you imagine Al Gore as Bush’s veep? Or, if you prefer, McCain’s as Obama’s?
Strike that last one. That’s one’s all too believable.
And what about those Northeastern Republicans? Obama just picked one for Commerce Secretary.
Sorry, Oliver, I don’t live and die by polls. My principles aren’t governed by popularity or acceptance. I occasionally give up a fight (like the centuries-old tradition of presidents retiring quietly, with J. Q. Adams and Taft being exceptions), and reconsider positions, but I don’t subsume my opinions to the majority.
J.
“the only actual power of the vice president is strictly legislative in nature”
No, it’s not. He’s President of the Senate but this doesn’t make him part of the legislative branch. Jay, I realize you aren’t a fan of books or scholars, but this is not a negotiable point. The Veep is part of the executive branch with rare powers in the legislative branch. This doesn’t magically make him a member of the legislative branch.
Please google “LBJ locked out of Senate” and educate yourself on this.
“It really is obvious that the Founding Fathers didn’t give the vice-presidency much thought.”
Wrong again. Just because they didn’t make the Veep much of a powerful position doesn’t mean they didn’t think it through. This is a feature, not a bug. But again, it’s cute to see a mental midget like yourself actually second-guess the Founding Fathers.
“Actually, Oliver, I was referring to how the Democratic apparatus decided to back Lieberman’s challenger, Ned Lamont.”
You mean how the Democratic party backed the winner of the Connecticut Democratic primary for Senator? Get out the pitchforks! Next thing you know you’re going to tell me that the Democratic party backed Obama!
Cheney was given a hefty role in national security.
Given?
“…but I don’t subsume my opinions to the majority.”
LOL
Actually, Oliver, I was referring to how the Democratic apparatus decided to back Lieberman’s challenger, Ned Lamont.
just so we understand this comment, what in your opinion is the purpose of a primary election?
I know we’ve moved away, but I can’t resist. From The Economist, via Instaputz:
“THIS week is bringing a flurry of articles along the general theme of “is the presidency of Barack Obama doomed?” There are a few reasons to ignore them. For example, here is Victor Davis Hanson (pictured) in National Review, today, in a post that’s making the blogospheric rounds:
We are quite literally after two weeks teetering on an Obama implosion—and with no Dick Morris to bail him out—brought on by messianic delusions of grandeur, hubris, and a strange naivete that soaring rhetoric and a multiracial profile can add requisite cover to good old-fashioned Chicago politicking.
Here’s Victor Davis Hanson in National Review, September 2008:
No Northern Democratic liberal like Obama has won the presidency in a half-century…The new Obama probably will recover from his temporary setback in the polls. But right now his problem is that disappointed independent voters are catching on that this saintly savior is all too human.
Here’s Victor David Hanson in National Review, March 2008:
Barack Obama is on his way to a McGovern candidacy.
Here’s Victor Davis Hanson in National Review, March 2008 (again):
Obama is crashing in all the polls, especially against McCain, against whom he doesn’t stack up well, given McCain’s heroic narrative, the upswing in Iraq, and the past distance between McCain and the Bush administration.
Predicting a president’s doom is a high-risk game. Or it would be, if pundits were held as accountable as, say, cabinet nominees.”
Actually, Oliver, I was referring to how the Democratic apparatus decided to back Lieberman’s challenger, Ned Lamont.
The Democratic apparatus? Which candidate did the Clintons endorse? Which candidate did Mr. Obama endorse?
Stop digging, Mr. Tea.
Yes it was one of the worst terror attacks in the US’s history but it was at the beginning of his term and not known to be a threat.. It would have happened to any president. The important thing is that it didn’t happen again during the rest of his 2 terms.
Cheney and the political far-right have nothing new or productive to say or do.
If Cheney’s that concerned about terror being perpetrated on our citizens, why the fuck didn’t he release every last person in prison for personal-use drug possession and leave the real crooks (murderers, child molesters, Madoffs, etc) in? His logic is as skewed as his smirk.
Fuck Cheney and his political ilk. They’ve done nothing but fuck us for eight years; it’s time they sit down and shut the ever-livin’ fuck up.
Sorry…just pisses me off
I prefer our current VP’s statements regarding Cheney. To wit “Who the hell listens to him anymore? He’s an idiot.”
“It would have happened to any president.”
BIN LADEN DETERMINED TO STRIKE WITHIN US
You apologists are pathetic. Saying “9/11 only happened once” is the lamest defense I’ve ever heard.
Almost all US presidents have kept America safe from domestic attacks. George W. Bush was not one of them.