Rush gives them marching orders. Hannity and Coulter enforce the party line. And Joe The Plumber? Strategist. Yeah, we should totally listen to these guys.
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What, we should listen to you guys when you tell us how paying more taxes is patriotic and the right thing to do?
Another tax problem for an Obama nominee
Maybe if we just audited every Democratic politician and made them all get current on their tax debts we could this financial crisis.
Dennis is right. Hope and change is circling the drain with the tax cheats and former lobbyists being welcomed into the new administration with open arms.
Sheesh. What a bill of goods this huckster sold to the Acmerican people.
You guys bring up taxes? In a thread about Joe the “Plumber”?
Haw!
Shhhhh, Quaker, it’s all part of Joe’s “strategy”.
Deflection and projection. The floor joists of the GOP platform.
You guys bring up taxes? In a thread about Joe the “Plumber”?
I forgot, which position in McCain’s administration did Joe the Plumber occupy?
And by all means, let’s compare and contrast the amount of unpaid taxes in question for JTP, Mr. Geitner, Mr. Daschle and Mr Rangel.
I forgot, which position in McCain’s administration did Joe the Plumber occupy?
The Secretary of Dumbass Know-Nothing Anti-Intellectual Nativist Fox News-Stroking Bullshit
Deflection and projection.
Talking about Joe the Plumber and falsely asserting that he’s a strategist for the Republican party along with asking why you guys should listen to Repbublicans, as if you would otherwise, is quite a bit more of a deflection and projection, don’t you think, Duros?
Or is that just me because I think the current Democratic tax-cheating epidemic is a bit more germane to this country’s problems than JTP’s appearance at some obscure conference and Bob Cesca’s need for blog-filler?
Stormfront Republicans doing what they do best
Tom Daschle: $140,000
Tim Geitner: $43,000
Charlie Rangel: No figure given, but his spokesman says it will probably be “several thousands of dollars”
Joe The Plumber: $1,200
Deflection and projection. The floor joists of the GOP platform.
jr: “Stormfront Republicans doing what they do best”
Hey! Pay no attention to the Democrat tax cheats. Look at those racists over there!!
Deflection and projection. The foundation and load-bearing walls of the Democrat house of cards.
I forgot, which position in McCain’s administration did Joe the Plumber occupy?
I’m glad to see that you guys are at least embarrassed enough by Joe the Plumber that you’re trying to distance yourselves from him. Because let’s face it, inviting him to come speak about the stimulus package is pretty embarrassing.
I forgot, which position in McCain’s administration did Joe the Plumber occupy?
ed: “The Secretary of Dumbass Know-Nothing Anti-Intellectual Nativist Fox News-Stroking Bullshit”
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt”
– Abraham Lincoln
I’m amazed that Dave in SoCal would show his face around here after what he said about the Marines in Fallujah.
Bob Cesca: “And now, taking advice from a skinheaded cartoon character”
Noted Democratic skinhead and ‘Obama for America’ member James Carville was unavailable for comment.
More tax problems.
Seriously, this IS going to stop at some point, isn’t it?
I forgot, which position in McCain’s administration did Joe the Plumber occupy?
Wait. Now you’re saying that Joe the Plumber* is off topic?
Haw! again.
WOW This discussion has very little to do with the original post.
I wonder why that is?
Rebellion in the Imperial Senate?
They’re tired of being told to shut up and vote by their leadership?
Under Barack Obama 2.0, this uprising will not be received well.
Seriously, this IS going to stop at some point, isn’t it? -Dave in SoCal
Probably about the same time the lobbyists Obama declared would never serve in his Cabinet stop getting appointed, is my guess.
—-
Daschle withdraws his nomination from HHS Secretary
Well, one less lobbyist appointment, I guess. I can’t even joke about this train wreck of a start for Obama.
Wait. Now you’re saying that Joe the Plumber* is off topic?
Haw! again.
Who said he was off topic? Feel free to talk about him all you want. It’s not like this penny ante tax cheat has any sort of leadership role or is in a position to craft policy for the Republican party or anything.
WOW This discussion has very little to do with the original post.
I wonder why that is?
Well you can’t expect Oliver to create a post titled “Why Does The Obama Administration Keep Nominating Tax Cheats?”, can you?
If you want that kind of honesty, you’ll have to look elsewhere.
WOW This discussion has very little to do with the original post. I wonder why that is?– Grumpyman
Maybe that’s because NONE of you guys has even discussed the blog topic.
I wonder why THAT is?
Correction: Mister ed mumbled something about him in his best Aqualung imitation.
“WOW This discussion has very little to do with the original post. I wonder why that is?”
Maybe because it’s irrelevant that Joe the Plumber is a guest speaker at a staffer meeting while Obama is breaking election pledges left and right.
Maybe that’s because NONE of you guys has even discussed the blog topic.
I wonder why THAT is?
Because the usual gang of schoolyard troublemakers hijacked another thread?
Let’s go through it slowly for the benefit of the slow.
The country is facing economic catastrophe.
Republicans in Congress are taking their cue from Rush.
The Conservative Working Group is seeking the opinions of an Ohio plumber*.
The press is yelling “Yah! Yah!” because the HHS nominee filed an amended tax return.
Now let’s stop right here for just a minute and let some of you catch up. Yes, that’s what Mr. Daschle is accused of–filing an amended tax return. If you think he has done anything more, I’m eager to see your evidence.
The level of discussion offered in this thread serves as evidence of OW’s main point: We have serious problems in this country. The Republican party isn’t taking those problems seriously.
Hear, hear, Quaker.
The Republican party isn’t taking those problems seriously.
Number one, you say the Republican Party is irrelevant, Rush is irrelevant, and Joe the Plumber is, was, and always has been, a joke. So that should make this liberal blog chatter story of the day pretty irrelevant as to solving any of today’s economic problems too. The people who are going to show up at that gig are not going to take down notes on what he says and go out and effect policy that he recommends just because he said it.
Number two, if Tom Daschle did nothing wrong, then he’s a fucking pussy of the highest order to resign his position, and you should be screaming that from the rooftops. That you somehow blame his resignation on Republicans is a bit laughable. Not “Haw!” laughable, but amusing nonetheless.
Number three, it looks like more than a few Dems are starting to bail on Obama’s current ‘Generational Theft Act’, so, are they not taking our problems seriously.
Isn’t dissent the highest form of patriotism, QIB? Heard that once or twice these last eight years. Can’t recall where.
Let’s go through it slowly for the benefit of the slow.
OK. I’ll go through it equally slow.
- The country is facing economic catastrophe.
- One of the direct participants (as president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York) of the economic meltdown failed to pay $43,000 in taxes while simultaneously claiming a reimbursement for taxes that he never paid.
- The Obama administration is asking this person to take a position in which they will be expected to enforce taxes and craft economic policy.
- On top of the $700 billion already blown by the incompetent Bush administration and incompetent Democrat-led Congress, the Obama administration and Democrat-led Congress push for a $1 trillion spending package, touted as being much needed “stimulus” for the damaged economy, despite the fact that only a small portion can be realistically seen as meeting the immediate “stimulus” requirement, with the rest being spent on making existing programs even bigger.
- Oliver links to a liberal blogger who points and hoots at Republicans for inviting JTP to speak at a meeting and sarcastically says that this means they should be “taken very seriously”.
- Oliver then chimes in “Yeah, we should totally listen to these guys”.
Tell us again, Quaker, how the Democrats are showing (with deeds, not just words) that they are taking these problems seriously?
Oh, and by the way:
Rangel, Dodd and Frank.
Geitner, Daschle and now Nancy Killefer.
At what point should we start taking the Democrats seriously?
Jesus Christ on a popsicle stick, Quaker. When this crisis started coming to a very bad head back in late September and Obama’s poll numbers started going from negative to positive and growing each day with each passing headline of investment bank and insurance company failures, the mood at this place went from apoplectic befuddlement that an obscure Alaskan governor was going to derail the Hope and Change Express, to one of almost sheer giddiness as things got progressively worse. Phyrric victory, that’s all, Obama will fix it.
Now you have the kind of audacity unknown to man before this current huckster came along to accuse us of not taking things seriously. Please.
Number one, you say the Republican Party is irrelevant, Rush is irrelevant, and Joe the Plumber is, was, and always has been, a joke. So that should make this liberal blog chatter story of the day pretty irrelevant as to solving any of today’s economic problems too.
Your paraphrase is a poor one.
I didn’t say the Republican Party is irrelevant. I said they’re taking their cue from Rush. And his interest lies in bolstering the electoral prospects of Republicans. To that end, he takes positions that are extreme, punitive, and unproductive.
“Irrelevant” is your word, not mine.
Number two, if Tom Daschle did nothing wrong, then he’s a fucking pussy of the highest order to resign his position, and you should be screaming that from the rooftops.
That’s unresponsive. Mr. Daschle filed an amended tax return. So far, I’ve not seen anyone accuse him of anything else. You got anything?
Number three, it looks like more than a few Dems are starting to bail on Obama’s current ‘Generational Theft Act’, so, are they not taking our problems seriously.
I see. You’re taking your cues from Ms. Malkin’s team? At least you’ve adopted their marketing plan. Special Ed points to a poll that shows that Mr. Obama’s plan does not have unanimous support!1! I’m shocked.
Isn’t dissent the highest form of patriotism, QIB? Heard that once or twice these last eight years. Can’t recall where.
Uh, whuh?
How DARE Republicans listen to ordinary people?!? Conservative confernces should only be attended by stodgy, old white men like Buckley so that we can continue to portray them as upper-crust blue bloods and out of touch with real Americans.
Now you have the kind of audacity unknown to man before this current huckster came along to accuse us of not taking things seriously.
Indeed I do. First thing you’ve gotten right about me.
Here’s what we have: Republicans, in the face of an economic meltdown, are taking advice from a radio talkshow host who makes a living on hyperbole and sarcasm, from a determined know-nothing (in Mr. Hannity), and now from a campaign side-show curiosity.
Yes indeed. I accuse you of not taking the nation’s problems seriously.
Does Mr. Daschle have a public relations problem? Certainly. Does he have a tax problem? Only the IRS and his accountant know for sure. Is there any evidence that he actively sought to evade paying his taxes? None that I have seen.
Now, if I may, I’ll make use of the word you attempted to shove in my mouth earlier: irrelevant. All of this chatter about Mr. Daschle’s taxes is irrelevant.
What has not been addressed is whether Mr. Daschle would make a good secretary for Health and Human Services.
Why don’t we ask Joe the Plumber*?
I forgot, which position in McCain’s administration did Joe the Plumber occupy?
Ambassador to Dumbfuckistan.
Tell us again, Quaker, how the Democrats are showing (with deeds, not just words) that they are taking these problems seriously?
They’re trying to pass legislation to address the problems. It looks like they’re going to succeed. You might have heard–it’s been in the papers.
are taking advice from a radio talkshow host who makes a living on hyperbole and sarcasm, from a determined know-nothing (in Mr. Hannity), and now from a campaign side-show curiosity.
Quaker, asking JTP to be the guest speaker at a recurring meeting is hardly “taking his advice”. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary.
Please note from the original story:
Sounds more like they are using him more to drum interest in a otherwise lightly attended meeting than to draw on his sage wisdom.
And please note that “speaking at a meeting” is completely unlike “join the group and help them enforce or craft strategy or policy” (as Obama has asked Geitner to do).
Isn’t dissent the highest form of patriotism, QIB? Heard that once or twice these last eight years. Can’t recall where.
You had your chance. If you took it, maybe we would’ve granted you the benefit of the doubt.
Whatever nay-saying any of you may have about Obama’s economic policies, remember this: If John McCain had his way 1 year ago, Social Security would be in the toilet as well by now.
Quaker, asking JTP to be the guest speaker at a recurring meeting is hardly “taking his advice”. Unless you have some evidence to the contrary.
All I know is what I read in the Politico:
I’d be a lot happier if your interpretation turns out to be the correct one.
Sounds more like they are using him more to drum interest in a otherwise lightly attended meeting
Maybe next time they can get a dancing dog. I’d go.
Me: Tell us again, Quaker, how the Democrats are showing (with deeds, not just words) that they are taking these problems seriously?
Quaker: They’re trying to pass legislation to address the problems. It looks like they’re going to succeed. You might have heard–it’s been in the papers.
Really? So let’s look at exactly what’s in that legislation designed to “address the problem”. The one that was in all the papers.
The Liberal Anti-Christ (Michelle Malkin) has posted a handy list from Senator Coburn’s office.
Now before you cut loose with the inevitable “evil rich Republican thinks giving money to starving children is wrong wrong WRONG”, remember that this is supposed to be legislation intended to stimulate the economy. It is NOT supposed to be a wish list of funding for long-term program creation or expansion. It is not supposed to cure all of our country’s ills. It is supposed to FIX THE ECONOMY.
So maybe you can point out exactly where the spending is that will in some way (or is expected to) stimulate the economy? Then total it up and compare it to the overall price tag. And then tell us again how the Democrats are serious about fixing the economy.
* $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Dept. of Energy defunded last year because the project was inefficient
* A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film
* $650 million for the digital television (DTV) converter box coupon program
* $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship)
* $448 million for constructing the Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
* $248 million for furniture at the new Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
* $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees
* $400 million for the CDC to screen and prevent STD’s
* $1.4 billion for a rural waste disposal programs
* $125 million for the Washington, D.C. sewer system
* $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
* $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion
* $75 million for “smoking cessation activities”
* $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges
* $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI
* $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction
* $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River
* $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas
* $6 billion to turn federal buildings into “green” buildings
* $500 million for state and local fire stations
* $650 million for wildland fire management on Forest Service lands
* $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities
* $1.2 billion for “youth activities,” including youth summer job programs
* $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service
* $412 million for CDC buildings and property
* $500 million for building and repairing NIH facilities in Bethesda, MD
* $160 million for “paid volunteers” at the Corporation for National and Community Service
* $5.5 million for “energy efficiency initiatives” at the VA “National Cemetery Administration”
* $850 million for Amtrak
* $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint
* $75M to construct a new “security training” facility for State Dept Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.
* $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems
* $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.
* IDEA, Part B State Grants: Formula grants to assist the States in meeting the excess costs of providing special education and related services to children with disabilities.
* IDEA Infants and Families: Formula grants to the States to assist them in making early intervention services available to children with disabilities aged birth through 2 and their families.
* State Medicaid Bailout: $87.7 billion Through 3 different mechanisms, the bill would provide additional federal funds to state Medicaid programs over the next 3 years. This is nearly $70 billion more than the governors asked President Obama for in December, and should be a loan to be repaid by the states.
Bad Policy
* Eliminates fees on loans from the Small Business Administration, thus pushing private capital toward unproductive businesses and away from productive businesses.
* Increases the definition of “youth” for certain summer job programs from age 21 to age 24.
* $160 million to the Job Corps program at the Dept. of Labor, but not for job programs – rather, to construct, alter or repair buildings.
* Requires a government study on the impact of minimum wage laws on the Northern Mariana Islands and American Samoa.
* $79 billion State Fiscal Stabilization (slush) Fund to bailout the States by providing billions of dollars for “education” costs of any kind.
* $47.843 billion is appropriated for a variety of energy programs that are primarily focused on renewable energy development and energy conservation/efficiency. Not one dollar is appropriated to make fossil fuels more affordable in the near future. More than $6 billion of these funds go to environmental clean ups.
* Increases eligibility for “weatherization” assistance to households 200 percent above the poverty level.
* The “Making Work Pay” credit of $500 to every individual making less than $75,000 (or $1000 to couples making $150,000 or less) would pay people whether they are productive or not – akin to welfare.
* The Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP – food stamps) would temporarily suspend the 3-month limit for non-working adults to receive SNAP benefits, thus giving incentives not to find a job.
* Installs government as the creator of broadband deployment regardless of whether the specific local/regional market can sustain it.
* Funds new “green jobs” job-training program without eliminating inefficient job-training programs or consolidating duplicative job-training programs.
* $890 million to the Social Security Administration without any provisions to reduce improper payments, or any plan to increase solvency of the trust fund.
* Nothing requires the products that are purchased with these funds be here in America. Lithium ion batteries, for instance, are primarily made in Asia.
Taking it seriously:
All I know is what I read in the Politico
Maybe you should have been skeptical when they failed to back up “Joe the Plumber is now doing political strategy with Republicans” with anything approaching actual evidence.
Taking it seriously:
You’re right. Thune should have brought flash cards too. And blocks he could stack. And maybe the Sesame Street muppets so they could explain it to them in even simpler terms.
Sounds more like they are using him more to drum interest in a otherwise lightly attended meeting than to draw on his sage wisdom. –Dave in SoCal
Yes. A bit like posting a very nice picture of Jessica Alba on a blog. Surprisingly, that likely draws more hits and comments to a thread than a post like Tammy Duckworth tapped for Assistant VA Secretary, with a corresponding picture of her in a wheelchair.
That post drew a whole 29 whopping comments at Think Progress.
Joe the Plumber liberal blog cackler-of-the-day? 135.
Go figure.
I’m impressed with your ability to copy and paste Ms. Malkin’s work. I might have been more impressed with evidence that you had read it.
So maybe you can point out exactly where the spending is that will in some way (or is expected to) stimulate the economy?
Many of the items listed are stimulative. In fact, most are. Let’s look at the big ticket items on your list:
* $79 billion State Fiscal Stabilization (we’ll eliminate Ms. Malkin’s editorializing) Fund to bailout the States by providing billions of dollars for education costs of any kind.
Tax revenues for the states are down. This money would provide immediate support for state governments to continue running schools without layoffs and cutbacks. That’s stimulative, isn’t it?
* $47.843 billion is appropriated for a variety of energy programs that are primarily focused on renewable energy development and energy conservation/efficiency. Not one dollar is appropriated to make fossil fuels more affordable in the near future. More than $6 billion of these funds go to environmental clean ups.
Energy programs? I suppose those “programs” might involve something called “jobs”?
* State Medicaid (once again, I’ll do away with Ms. Malkin’s absurdity): $87.7 billion Through 3 different mechanisms, the bill would provide additional federal funds to state Medicaid programs over the next 3 years. This is nearly $70 billion more than the governors asked President Obama for in December, and should be a loan to be repaid by the states.
Republican governors seem to like this idea, even if Ms. Malkin doesn’t.
Add it all up? Nah. Too lazy.
Thune should have brought flash cards too. And blocks he could stack. And maybe the Sesame Street muppets so they could explain it to them in even simpler terms.
Perhaps. Or maybe he could have just written the number on a big blackboard so they could see how many zeroes are in it.
I suspect that most of his listeners would have been–like me–confused as to what this has to do with deliberations over what to do about the economy.
Joe the Plumber liberal blog cackler-of-the-day? 135.
How many were from JTP’s defenders?
Well, Dennis, you see, we love laughing at the Republicans’ love affair with Joe the Plumber. Nominating Tammy Duckworth is nothing to laugh about, though I’m sure you’d feel differently.
When the Republicans become a functional political party again instead of a fringe cult of crazies, much like the vintage late-90s British Conservative party, we’ll talk.
Well, Dennis, you see, we love laughing at the Republicans’ love affair with Joe the Plumber. Nominating Tammy Duckworth is nothing to laugh about, though I’m sure you’d feel differently. –Tyro
I know you guys and liberals like to laugh at guys like Joe the Plumber, Tyro. That’s my point, and I’ve made it several times. It’s a liberal blog recurring cackler topic.
And try not to be a complete idiot by accusing me falsely of laughing at Tammy Duckworth- I wasn’t, not even close. I applaud that appointment by Obama. I’d think that sort of a post on a blog that calls themselves ‘ThinkProgress’ would generate a lot more comments than just 29, but it didn’t. People there are too busy ruminating on the important topic of Joe The Plumber. These are people that are not like conservatives are; like Quaker in a Basement says, they take the current economic situation seriously.
If liberal blogs use Joe the Plumber to generate blog traffic, and they most certainly do, why is it wrong for a committee to invite him as a guest speaker to draw more people? It’s not really all that different. And liberal blogs like TP and Bob Cesca are disingenuous to make it into a story about his setting policy and giving advice to the GOP.
But I suspect you already knew that.
I forgot, which position in McCain’s administration did Joe the Plumber occupy?
I forgot, John McCain had an administration when?
I might have been more impressed with evidence that you had read it.
I did read it.
Many of the items listed are stimulative. In fact, most are.
Oh, well if you SAY they are, then they must be. How could anyone think otherwise? /sarcasm
Add it all up? Nah. Too lazy.
Or explain HOW they’re stimulative? Ditto.
Tax revenues for the states are down. This money would provide immediate support for state governments to continue running schools without layoffs and cutbacks. That’s stimulative, isn’t it?
That’s not stimulating anything. It’s hoping that the duct tape that you slap on a crumbling dam will keep it from collapsing for another year.
In CA, spending on education has increased almost 60% over the last decade (from $22 billion to almost $60 billion). Do you think it’s too much to ask the state to tighten its belt? How much budget can you cut before layoffs start? And BTW, the teachers union here screaming about “cuts” to education are actually talking about reductions in the planned increases. To them, if you cut $5 billion from a $10 billion increase (you’re still increasing it by $5 billion) then you are cutting education you evil person you. You’re probably a Republican.
Energy programs? I suppose those “programs” might involve something called “jobs”?
So how many jobs? I suppose that someone should be able to come up with even a ballpark figure, don’t you think?. For almost $49 billion dollars, you should expect a large number.
Instead we get a nebulous “variety of energy programs that are primarily focused on renewable energy development and energy conservation/efficiencies”.
Remember this?
Republican governors seem to like this idea, even if Ms. Malkin doesn’t.
Of course they do. They want the Federal government to solve their problems and bail out their states’ incompetence and mismanagement. My own state of California is a textbook example. No budget and the state literally runs out of money in a matter of days and starts paying in IOUs. Why no budget? Because the Democrat-controlled legislature refuses to cut ANY spending (after becoming accustomed to spending increases over the last 5 years) and can’t increase taxes because the minority Republicans have said “NO TAX INCREASES” and actually meant it.
Quaker in a Basemnt, here is Oliver’s blog post about JTP and his tax problems from when the story first appeared last October, dug up illegally by an Ohio government official and Obama supporter, but I digress. You were there. You didn’t indict Joe, but you were there as he was being picked apart and yes, called a tax cheat.
Why no defense of him then on any sort of scale such as you are providing for Tom Daschle today?
Nuance, or am I being obtuse?
I forgot, John McCain had an administration when?
Sorry, apparently the point I was trying to make was just too high-brow for you (and ed).
I’ll try to make simpler points in the future. Possibly with pictures. With lots of bright colors and happy faces.
Oh, well if you SAY they are, then they must be. How could anyone think otherwise?
We could turn that right around as well. They’re NOT stimulative just because you say they’re not?
Look, government spending in just about any form is stimulative. That’s why government spending in flush times tends to jack up inflation rates. When government spends, the money doesn’t just vanish. It gets, well, spent! That means the money gets paid to companies and to people who in turn go and spend it again.
This latest notion conservatives are floating that there’s some difference between government spending and stimulus is baffling. It’s a complete reversal from conservative orthodoxy over the last 60 years.
Why no defense of him then on any sort of scale such as you are providing for Tom Daschle today?
Didn’t feel like it. Anything else?
Look, government spending in just about any form is stimulative.
Apparently, there are a significant number of economists who disagree with you on that point.
But I’m sure you know better than all of them combined.
Funny, I actually followed that link Dennis, and I don’t see him being called a tax cheat. Can you point that out?
“Nuance, or am I being obtuse?”
Obtuse, perhaps. Dumbass, definitely.
You lost me there, Dave.
Are you arguing, like Congressional Republicans, that some spending is stimulative but other spending is not? Or are you agreeing with the Cato gang that government spending is not stimulative ever?
If it’s the former, then Mr. Coburn’s list has some problems. Just about all of those programs involve hiring people or private sector companies to do work and provide goods and services. That’s what “stimulative” means.
If it’s the latter, well, I can’t help you. All you’ve done is show that some conservative economists agree with each other. There are others who disagree with them. Appeal to authority arguments tend to have that problem.
Didn’t feel like it. Anything else?–QIB
No, but thanks, that’s a good reply. I think I’ll use that one when Mister ed asks why I never provided a hundred links to support an irrelevant and tangential point I made two weeks ago.
My point is, Dennis, that I wasn’t aware way back then that I would need to comment on that issue in order to satisfy your requirement for logical consistency today.
I’ve been working on my ability to see the future. Not there yet.
Funny, I actually followed that link Dennis, and I don’t see him being called a tax cheat. Can you point that out? Not Quite Yet Enlightened Liberal, Someday Maybe
Don’t feel like it. Anything else?
You checked!
So what did we learn today? That Dennis just posts random links to attempt to prove his points. Which makes him a lot like most conservatives.
I’ve been working on my ability to see the future. Not there yet.
Actually, I don’t enjoy pointing out liberal hypocrisy, Quibbie, but someone’s got to do it.
We’re not just blue states and red states, we’re the United States.
Anyway, back to the point.
Yes, it’s true that some of us lefties hold a fascination with Joe the Plumber*. Over the last eight years, we have watched while the conservative movement has devolved into a series of sensations and freak shows: Limbaugh, Savage, Coulter, Glenn Beck, Hannity, the Teri Schiavo debacle, the “Mission Accomplished” carrier landing, Sarah Palin.
But even as jaded and cynical as we had become about the state of conservatism, we were totally unprepared for Joe the Plumber*. I mean, this is literally some guy plucked off the street! He was just standing around when Barack Obama happened to come by and answer his question. And that is his entire qualification for everything he has done since.
If we take a certain morbid delight in this, it’s not our fault. He’s your monkey.
$2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Dept. of Energy defunded last year because the project was inefficient
Coal plants aren’t run by robots. The funding will allow for expansion, and people are needed to run and maintain said expansion, which equals to more jobs.
* $650 million for the digital television (DTV) converter box coupon program
Are you actually arguing that investing in future technology is a BAD idea?
* $448 million for constructing the Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
1. The Bush administration is the one that created that department in the 1st place.
2. Again, planning and construction require people, who will be compensated for their work with money.
* $248 million for furniture at the new Dept. of Homeland Security headquarters
Home Depot or whoever they contract for this stuff gets money for providing the furniture, which they use to pay their workers and even hire more workers.
* $1.4 billion for a rural waste disposal programs
People run waste management facilities, see above.
* $125 million for the Washington, D.C. sewer system
Sewer workers, see above.
* $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges
The computers are bought from companies, see above.
Ok, enough of this crap. Do you really believe that when they were talking about stimulating the economy, they were going to give money to some tangible entity known as “the economy”.
Apparently, there are a significant number of economists who disagree with you on that point.
There are a bunch of economists that thought that the housing bubble was a good idea. What’s your point?
Listen, we tried it your way for 8 years, and now we’re in this mess. The same tactics aren’t going to get us out.
Actually, I don’t enjoy pointing out liberal hypocrisy, Quibbie, but someone’s got to do it.
Well, let us know when you find some. In OW’s post about JTP’s tax troubles, neither he nor any commenter referred to JTP as a “tax cheat.” JTP was not called a tax cheat in the article OW linked.
Carry on.
To second Zython’s point, we ought to remember that these aren’t government firms doing this work, it’s by and large getting farmed out to private sector construction companies, depending on how much of the stimulus gets into localities, likely small companies. You know, those small businesses that conservatives often claim to represent.
I can’t say everything on Malkin’s list is stimulative, but some are. For instance:
$88 million to design a new icebreaker for the Coast Guard? If the design contract is to a US company, that is stimulative.
$648 million for construction, and $248 million for furniture for new DHS headquarters? Sounds like a bunch of construction and furniture manufacturing jobs to me. We could use some of the latter around High Point,NC.
$600 million for hybrid cars? If they buy ‘em from Detroit, or from Toyota plants in TN, I’m for it. It should help.
$125 million for the DC sewer system sounds like a two-fer, providing construction jobs and infrastructure improvement with one stone, as it were.
$75M for FBI salaries? Don’t FBI employees spend money at Safeway, Applebees’s, and Wal-Mart?
$500M for flood-reduction projects? More construction work, maybe saving (or adding) a few jobs at the Caterpillar plant 10 miles from my house.
$6 billion to turn government buildings green? That’s not stimulative? Who’s gonna do the work, robots?
Money for FSA to buy new computers? If they buy ‘em from Lenovo, maybe a few hundred people here in Raleigh, NC, will keep their good jobs.
You see where I’m going with this, Dave. Yeah, trim the fat, but don’t claim it’s all bullshit.
So what did we learn today? That Dennis just posts random links to attempt to prove his points. Which makes him a lot like most conservatives. Unenlightened Libby
Unenlightened Libbie, this was from just the third post in Oliver’s previous blog post I linked to:
“But alas, dumbass Joe, because you so CLEARLY don’t understand NOR follow US Tax Law (as evidenced by your tax scofflaw status…”
If scofflaw does not mean cheat, then you may have a point, but my understanding is that a tax scofflaw is synonymous with a tax cheat.
Now if you’ll please pardon me, I’m a bit busy. Unless you care to graciously apologize for your false accusation, would you mind if I ignore you some other time?
Aaand I’ve essentially repeated what Quaker already said. Sorry all, skimming these long threads can get one into trouble.
In OW’s post about JTP’s tax troubles, neither he nor any commenter referred to JTP as a “tax cheat.” JTP was not called a tax cheat in the article OW linked.–Quaker in a Basement
Quibbie- See my above post to Unenlightened Liberal. Tax scofflaw, I believe, is synonymous with tax cheat. Honest people may disagree, but that’s how I interpreted the word. Scofflaw is not a term I ever use, so please pardon me if I took a too liberal interpretation in equating the two.
Tax scofflaw, I believe, is synonymous with tax cheat. Honest people may disagree, but that’s how I interpreted the word. Scofflaw is not a term I ever use, so please pardon me if I took a too liberal interpretation in equating the two.
Oh, very well. Joe the Plumber* was, in fact, in arrears in his taxes and Mr. “Shanty Minister” commented that this put him in “scofflaw status.” I agree that one could reasonably interpret this as a judgment on Joe the Plumber’s integrity.
I am not familiar with Mr. Minister. He’s not a regular around here. But for the sake of logical consistency:
Bad Shanty Minister! Bad! Bad!
Happy?
You know, those small businesses that conservatives often claim to represent.
Dave posted:
Bad Policy
* Eliminates fees on loans from the Small Business Administration, thus pushing private capital toward unproductive businesses and away from productive businesses.
So yeah…
the mood at this place went from apoplectic befuddlement that an obscure Alaskan governor was going to derail the Hope and Change Express..
Funny. I do not recall that.