Uh, yeah. I found that and other stories on my own citing different reasons for the rate hike than you did. No where did I see anything that said low ridership was the issue.

Can you cite something that backs that claim up?

Me: “That’s because of the velocity of money is higher for building the buses than just giving out the money”

SFC B: “But the VoM will be wiped out by increasing the money supply by $800,000,000,000 over the span of a couple years.”

Here’s my important point:

It is clear you have no idea what you are talking about. If you had any training in economics, you wouldn’t make such a claim.

The velocity of money being wiped out by an increase in money supply? The money added to the system will INCREASE the velocity of money, because it is increasing the GDP directly by at least that much money. Additionally, people are less likely to hoard money. Without the stimulus, people will stop spending because they will be worried that they will lose their jobs, or they customers will lose their jobs, etc.

On the other hand, giving the money directly to the people would cause the very problem you are talking about. A massive increase in money supply without any increase in GDP would cause the velocity of money to go down while decreasing the value of the money.

Ummm….

“Valley Metro is funded mostly by sales taxes from individual cities and towns, as well as a countywide sales tax. Due to the recent downturn in the economy, budgets funded by various sales taxes have shrunk due to rapidly declining revenues.”

They don’t have the money to operate the vehicles they have because the downturn in the economy is hurting their revenue, which is mostly from sales taxes.

So no, you are wrong.

“I see that you’ve added “lack of reading comprehension” to you character traits…”

Ha ha ha…

That was a good joke, especially after the mistake above.

“What? ‘asshattery’ and ‘vulgar snot’ weren’t attractive enough for you?”

And this is even funnier after you called me racist for not bringing up an unrelated genocide when discussing the war in the former Yugoslavia.

http://www.valleymetro.org/bus/servicecuts

Can you cite a source for this, please?

Am I getting that right?

No.

You think it is a waste of money because there are not enough buses now in Phoenix, and $6 billion isn’t enough to fix the problem.

I see that you’ve added “lack of reading comprehension” to you character traits CSS. What? “asshattery” and “vulgar snot” weren’t attractive enough for you?

Anyways, Valley Metro’s problem isn’t that it doesn’t have enough vehicles to meet the demand. Their problem is there isn’t enough demand for that they have already. They’re having to lower operating costs by cutting routes and upping fares to increase revenue. Throwing whatever, if any, portion of the $6,000,000,000 for public transportion is PHX’s at the problem isn’t really going to make the people who aren’t taking the bus now take the bus then.

That’s because of the velocity of money is higher for building the buses than just giving out the money

But the VoM will be wiped out by increasing the money supply by $800,000,000,000 over the span of a couple years. So it really would be better for the people this plan is, in theory, supposed to help the most if the gov’t just cut them a check instead of trying to wrap it up in some sort of feel-good master-planning attempt.

“Will these buses and trains be ordered, built, paid for, and delivered without regard to the demand for their services? What about transit systems with current inventories which are no where near the end of their lifecycle? Will they just put these vehicles into a boneyard? Not that it really matters. $6,000,000,000 is a drop in the bucket for public transportation.”

So… You think it is a waste of money because there are not enough buses now in Phoenix, and $6 billion isn’t enough to fix the problem.

Am I getting that right?

“If the point of this is to help out people laid off as a result of the auto industry going belly-up, then wouldn’t it be better to just give the $6,000,000,000 directly to them.”

Nope. That’s because of the velocity of money is higher for building the buses than just giving out the money. . And if you don’t know what that means, stop talking.

Seriously.

I get the impression that a lot of people here never even took an entry level economics class in university, but they are talking about complex Macroeconomics like their opinions meant something.

It’s aim is to provide mass transit as cheaply and efficiently as possible to the public.

Here in the Phoenix area, it fails to do that. Valley Metro is already looking to cut routes and is looking for a fare increase of anywhere between .50 and 1.00 for a bus ride. This will, of course, screw the poor who actually do rely upon public transportation to get to work or school. And will put more people on the road in their cars.

Money spent on mass transit means buying more buses or trains…

Will these buses and trains be ordered, built, paid for, and delivered without regard to the demand for their services? What about transit systems with current inventories which are no where near the end of their lifecycle? Will they just put these vehicles into a boneyard? Not that it really matters. $6,000,000,000 is a drop in the bucket for public transportation.

…which someone has to build them (buses and trains), which means someone has to be hired to build them, which means some laid off autoworker can get a job.

If the point of this is to help out people laid off as a result of the auto industry going belly-up, then wouldn’t it be better to just give the $6,000,000,000 directly to them. Let’s even assume that 1/4 of that will be wasted in developing the support system to hand out this money to people. That is still like $4,500,000,000 in the pockets of these out-of-work autoworkers. Without the added waste of a few thousand busses or a couple of trains ($6,000,000,000 won’t actually do much for light rail. The Valley Metro Rail here in PHX cost $1,400,000,000 to build a 20-mile stretch of track. A stretch of track which basically makes life easier for ASU students, and no one else).

No. The answer is clearly no.

Jay Tea, you clearly do not know what neighborhood stabilization is. ACORN doesn’t do it.

Jay Tea, is your argument here that the only way this $6 billion is going to stimulate the economy is if mass transit systems start turning huge profits?

You do understand that the aim of mass transit systems is not necessarily to turn profits at all? It’s aim is to provide mass transit as cheaply and efficiently as possible to the public.

Money spent on mass transit means buying more buses or trains, which someone has to build them, which means someone has to be hired to build them, which means some laid off autoworker can get a job.

Money spent on mass transit means building the infrastructure for mass transit which means building new bus lanes, tracks for light rail, god forbid bullet trains etc etc. all of which means more jobs.

And they’re going to have hire people to drive all these new buses and trains, not to mention maintain them, which means mechanics.

Do you even fucking think about this shit before you post?

Now, Tom, that isn’t exactly true. Your income has gone down, so it just FEELS like your taxes have gone up.

Not sure what Dave in SoCo is getting at.

I don’t expect it, though. As Oliver keeps reminding us, “elections have consequences.” The people I voted for lost, and one of those consequences appears to be that I have the right to ask as many questions as I like — but I don’t have a right to expect answers. Instead, I can just shut up and pay my ever-increasing taxes.

Funny thing, whizz banger: at least you can ask the questions. Try and cast your fading memory cells back to what happened to any and all who tried to ask questions of the Illegally Installed Drunken Cokeheaded Deserter, let alone think that they have a right to expect answers.

And, help me out on this again: for some strange reason, even though Republican’ts have been trying to tell me that my taxes have gone down under their cabal, they have in fact gone up. So, I (and many others like me) have had to deal with the appearance of being able to ask questions (from time to time, as long as it’s the right question being asked), as long as we don’t feel like we have the right to expect answers. While we shut up and pay our ever-increasing taxes.

Why are you crying about this, when your Republican’t government has been doing it to others for years? and while you’ve been shoving it in everyone’s face for the last eight years? And why should we even think about listening to this sort of thing (unless we’re the sort who like to watch slo-mo train wrecks while they happen) from the likes of you, after you’ve been doing this to others for years?

Fized.

I agree that the bill isn’t as good as it should be. A lot of the spending proposals shouldn’t be on it, but should be in the regular budget proposal. Like the Arts Endowment spending. I know it isn’t much in the bigger picture, and I fully accept that it is necessary, but why is it part of this package?

Amazing, Mr. Thayer didn’t answer a direct question.

You can ask as many questions as you like, but if you ask dumb questions, we will mock you.

If you bring up the ‘harm’ ACORN has done, we will ask you to given details. … Then laugh at you when you don’t supply them.

Broken-clock syndrome, I guess…

Yeah, Jaim, I do hope that it works. But “hope” as a political philosophy is about as effective as it is a birth control method.

J.

How about helping people without cars get to the jobs that are still left? Or helping people who have their cars repossessed still get to work?

Funny, my taxes haven’t gone up at all as of late. Which taxes, pray tell, are you referring to? And here’s a hint sparky: local additions to things like your water bill have nothing to do with the Fed, mkay?

But I guess we can agree on something — it’s going to be a little while before we know how effective this stimulus package is. Since I know you love America like I do, let’s pray together that this goes just like Clinton’s bill in ‘93, which led to the greatest economic boom in American history (and his development as one of the most popular presidents of all time).

Nice to see we’re on the same side!