244-185.
No Republicans on board, but as we know… elections have consequences. The party of no can party along as the rest of us do work.
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And so the title passes…
Barack Obama –
Most. Fiscally. Irresponsible. President. Ever.
And it only took a week!
Change We Can Believe In!
Awesome.
Yes, he’s so fiscally irresponsible he and his party are passing legislation to fix the massive damage done by the GOP for 8 years.
Curious, Matt, what’s your metric?
Mine is the largest surplus-to-deficit swing in history.
Your turn.
Yup. The Democrats won the elections in 2006 and 2008, and elections have consequences. They hold all the cards, and as you-know-who said, with great power comes great responsibility.
The Democrats now own every single consequence of the stimulus plan, lock, stock, and barrel. If it works, then they can claim every bit of the credit.
In the meantime, they also get to explain to those of us who aren’t quite so economically savvy just how this stimulus plan works.
More specifically, precisely just how our current economic situation can be helped, short-term, by certain items in the bill:
* $1 billion for Amtrak, which has not turned a profit in 40 years.
* $2.4 billion for “carbon-capture demonstration projects.”
* $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts.
* $650 million more for more digital TV conversion box coupons
* $252 billion in Medicaid, unemployment, food stamps, and the earned income tax credit.
* $66 billion in education, but with the string: not a single penny to help children attend private elementary or secondary schools.
* $6 billion in mass transit — which is almost universally a money-loser.
* $4 billion for “neighborhood stabilization” — if one damned red penny ends up in the hands of ACORN, who have done far more harm to our democratic process than anyone in the past few years…
Yup. Congratulations. You won the elections. You wrote the bill completely by yourselves. You passed it completely by yourselves. If it really helps, you get all the credit.
And
ifwhen it falls apart and enough people start seeing it as the incredibly bloated, incredibly disgusting, incredibly fraudulent “stimulus package, you’ll own that, too.The people relegated to the peanut gallery will have a grandly entertaining time watching the fallout…
J.
Didn’t Bush add something like $2 trillion in bad bank notes and bailout money to our US liability column last year? On top of already record level defecates er, deficits?
It’s not a perfect bill but it’s better than what the Republicans would have caughed up (i.e., tax cuts for the rich).
The most worrisome thing about the economy Bush handed over to Obama is the unemployment rate. That’s got to be priority number one. I think this bill will help, but at the same time it’s probably not enough in the short-term. Long-term, I’m just hoping the Bush Recession can be kept to under one year.
Next step: Stop wasting one billion dollars a week propping up the pro-Iranian puppet state of Iraq. And get to work on a national healthcare bill so people like Jay don’t have to go bankrupt to get the life-saving care they need.
[...] Oliver Willis: No Republicans on board, but as we know… elections have consequences. The party of no can party along as the rest of us do work. [...]
It took Republicans 6 years to lose the title of ‘fiscally responsible party’. It took the Democratics a week. Congrats!
“It took Republicans 6 years to lose the title of ‘fiscally responsible party.’”
It took less time than that. Bush had blown a huge hole in the American budget before the end of his first term. Just google “supplementary budget Iraq.” Coward couldn’t even tie his military spending into the actual national budget.
By the end of his second, he’s ruined the American economy. Even conservative economists realize that money has to be spent to get things going again. Right now credit markets are practically frozen, and it’s not just an American problem.
But have fun watching adults clean up yet another Republican mess. And I hope you don’t lose your job or your home like millions of your fellow Americans.
Most. Fiscally. Irresponsible. President. Ever.
Iraq. Invasion.
Chickenhawk.
I just want to know who this Jay Tea guy is, and why he hates Mexicans so much.
Answer me that, and you can have my share of the stimulus package.
* $4 billion for “neighborhood stabilization” — if one damned red penny ends up in the hands of ACORN, who have done far more harm to our democratic process than anyone in the past few years…
Wow, you really have drunk the kool-aid, haven’t you?
I didn’t think anyone was still flogging that particular horse.
* $252 billion in Medicaid, unemployment, food stamps, and the earned income tax credit.
THOSE ASSHOLES HOW DARE THEY HELP POOR PEOPLE. And the ARTS! NOOOO! No art! No art for you!
Seriously, even if every dime of that $252 billion is smoked up in the crack pipes of America it will not even come close to being the dumbest use of $252 billion in the past 100 years.
That honor still goes to the invasion of Iraq, a giant suckhole down which we pour money each day and get affronted when asked where it goes, as opposed to spending a few dollars on teaching people to read, which is a crime against fiscal responsibility.
Stupidest trolls in the blogosphere. Hands down.
A.
* $6 billion in mass transit — which is almost universally a money-loser.
Except for the emissions reduction thing.
And the providing jobs for people to build it thing.
And the providing jobs for people to produce the steel to build it thing.
FAIL
SaveFarris says: “It took Republicans 6 years to lose the title of ‘fiscally responsible party’. It took the Democratics a week. Congrats!”
Actually, the Democrats are trying to be fiscally responsible by cleaning up the mess the Republicans made.
The Republicans still own that title.
* $6 billion in mass transit — which is almost universally a money-loser.
wÓò† says:
“Except for the emissions reduction thing.
And the providing jobs for people to build it thing.
And the providing jobs for people to produce the steel to build it thing.”
Hell, just cutting down on travel time to and from work will help the economy.
* $4 billion for “neighborhood stabilization” — if one damned red penny ends up in the hands of ACORN, who have done far more harm to our democratic process than anyone in the past few years…
It’s odd how no one has ever even heard of ACORN before fall 2008, and now they’re the source of all the country’s woes and rapes churches and burn women. Funny that…
* $2.4 billion for “carbon-capture demonstration projects.”
Oh noez, teh scare quotes! Head for the hills! Do you even know what this means?
* $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts.
“Stupid art, what’s it ever done for me? When’s the last time Michalangelo’s David washed mah dishes? When’s the last time those melty clocks woke me up in the morning?”
* $650 million more for more digital TV conversion box coupons
You really think this one won’t work? Really? Digital TV has just passed the early adaptor phase and is a clear money winner. The only X factor in this is the simultanious rise of digital distribution.
* $252 billion in Medicaid, unemployment, food stamps, and the earned income tax credit.
“Stupid poor and old people! They should freeze in the gutter until I have a chance to run them over with my SUV!”
Look, Jay, seriously, if you hate America so much, just move back to Iran or North Korea or Endor or wherever the hell you all came from.
“all spending is gay except for lassoing Mexicans and nuking Persians”-GOP
J.G.Thayer: “* $4 billion for ‘neighborhood stabilization’ — if one damned red penny ends up in the hands of ACORN, who have done far more harm to our democratic process than anyone in the past few years…”
What has ACORN done?
Seriously.
I want to here from you what you think they’ve actually done, because I think you are merely repeating a talking point that you has no substance.
The intent to me is clear. You want people to think ACORN has done something so horrible, that they won’t dare ask what, lest they look uninformed, or worse yet, lest they look they are defending some true evil.
So you’re promising that you won’t try to take credit for any possible future booms the way you guys try to take credit for the Clinton economy? Cool.
Dove-tailing on what O-dub said, it’s pretty clear that Obama and the Dems are going to rise and fall on what happens to the American economy over the next twelve months.
And honestly, I couldn’t be happier. We know for a fact what eight years of Bush/Republican economics do to our country — a crisis rivalling the Great Depression itself.
So while I don’t think this bill was perfect (if anything, the Congressional Dems simply need to ignore Republicans in the future since they aren’t interested in actually helping) it does some things that are going to help get Americans back to work.
And if I were king? A Federal manadate to rebuild New Orleans into the greatest American city in the south. This is the kind of public works project we could use right now.
Can anyone tell me what AMTRAK not turning a profit in 40 years has to do with whether or not it gets stimulus funds? Seems like a non-sequitor. Also sounds like a talking point.
Jay, you make plenty of decent arguments. That particular bulletpoint isn’t one of them.
I guess JayTea would have been happier with the Republican stimulus package:
-More tax cuts for the wealthy.
-Eliminating taxes that rich people pay.
-Granting tax refunds for taxes rich people paid over the last 10 years.
-Allowing giant corporations free use of military and government boats and planes to ship more jobs overseas.
-$2,000 for the invasion of France.
-$2,000,000,000,000 for large corporations to loot from the US for the rebuilding of the Eiffel Tower.
-$3 billion in tuition reimbursement and tuition vouchers for legacy students to private elementary and secondary schools.
-$100 million for Church televangelists.
-$200 billion for bank upper management Christmas bonuses.
-$1 trillion in royalty relief for mining and oil companies.
-$400 billion to rename every high school in America “Ronald Reagan High School”.
-$100 million to add proctologists to airport security teams to turn massively abusive and invasive security rapes into beneficial health screenings.
-$3 trillion to build a 300′ high wall along the Mexican border.
-$900 million to build catapult stations every 50 miles along the giant wall, equipped with special catapults capable of flinging illegal immigrants 310′ in the air over the wall back into Mexico.
-$10 million in Kleenex coupons for the newly unemployed so they can cry all they want.
-$100 million for the newly unemployed unsatisfied with their government kleenex, so they can rent a dildo and go fuck themselves.
-$30 billion to Halliburton so they can put dildo rental kiosks in unemployment offices.
-$10 billion in 2012 so Halliburton can replace dildo rental kiosks with Diebold dildo rental vending machines.
-$200,000 in 2012 for Kleenex coupons for newly unemployed dildo rental kiosk employees.
-$1 trillion for food stamps. This is actually a revenue generating new program that makes people buy tax stamps on food they buy.
-$10 billion for second home mortgage relief.
-$did I mention more tax cuts for the rich?
-oh, and $1 billion in tax incentives for job creators that hire gardeners, maids, personal chefs, poolboys and other domestic staff.
I thought you were joking till I read this one:
“-$100 million for the newly unemployed unsatisfied with their government kleenex, so they can rent a dildo and go fuck themselves.”
I’m not questioning the merits of every individual point, generally, just questioning what they have to do with “economic stimulus.” This near-trillion-dollar shit sandwich is loaded up with pork and rewards for Democratic special interests, and it is being sold as “critical to address the current economic crisis.”
Bullshit.
I’d like to hear a rationale for each of the items I mentioned above, not on their individual merits, but how they relate to alleviating the current economic situation — because that’s how they’re being sold.
I don’t expect it, though. As Oliver keeps reminding us, “elections have consequences.” The people I voted for lost, and one of those consequences appears to be that I have the right to ask as many questions as I like — but I don’t have a right to expect answers. Instead, I can just shut up and pay my ever-increasing taxes.
(shrug)Like Oliver says, elections have consequences — and consequences have elections. In 2010, 2012, 2014…
J.
“Instead, I can just shut up and pay my ever-increasing taxes.”
Funny, my taxes haven’t gone up at all as of late. Which taxes, pray tell, are you referring to? And here’s a hint sparky: local additions to things like your water bill have nothing to do with the Fed, mkay?
But I guess we can agree on something — it’s going to be a little while before we know how effective this stimulus package is. Since I know you love America like I do, let’s pray together that this goes just like Clinton’s bill in ‘93, which led to the greatest economic boom in American history (and his development as one of the most popular presidents of all time).
Nice to see we’re on the same side!
“Except for the emissions reduction thing.
And the providing jobs for people to build it thing.
And the providing jobs for people to produce the steel to build it thing.”
How about helping people without cars get to the jobs that are still left? Or helping people who have their cars repossessed still get to work?
Amazing. Jaim actually quoted something I said accurately.
Broken-clock syndrome, I guess…
Yeah, Jaim, I do hope that it works. But “hope” as a political philosophy is about as effective as it is a birth control method.
J.
J.G.Thayer: “The people I voted for lost, and one of those consequences appears to be that I have the right to ask as many questions as I like…”
You can ask as many questions as you like, but if you ask dumb questions, we will mock you.
If you bring up the ‘harm’ ACORN has done, we will ask you to given details. … Then laugh at you when you don’t supply them.
J.G.Thayer: “Amazing. Jaim actually quoted something I said accurately.”
Amazing, Mr. Thayer didn’t answer a direct question.
Mine is the fastest surplus-to-deficit swing in history.
Fized.
I agree that the bill isn’t as good as it should be. A lot of the spending proposals shouldn’t be on it, but should be in the regular budget proposal. Like the Arts Endowment spending. I know it isn’t much in the bigger picture, and I fully accept that it is necessary, but why is it part of this package?
Jay Tea says:, January 29, 2009 at 4:26 am
I don’t expect it, though. As Oliver keeps reminding us, “elections have consequences.” The people I voted for lost, and one of those consequences appears to be that I have the right to ask as many questions as I like — but I don’t have a right to expect answers. Instead, I can just shut up and pay my ever-increasing taxes.
Funny thing, whizz banger: at least you can ask the questions. Try and cast your fading memory cells back to what happened to any and all who tried to ask questions of the Illegally Installed Drunken Cokeheaded Deserter, let alone think that they have a right to expect answers.
And, help me out on this again: for some strange reason, even though Republican’ts have been trying to tell me that my taxes have gone down under their cabal, they have in fact gone up. So, I (and many others like me) have had to deal with the appearance of being able to ask questions (from time to time, as long as it’s the right question being asked), as long as we don’t feel like we have the right to expect answers. While we shut up and pay our ever-increasing taxes.
Why are you crying about this, when your Republican’t government has been doing it to others for years? and while you’ve been shoving it in everyone’s face for the last eight years? And why should we even think about listening to this sort of thing (unless we’re the sort who like to watch slo-mo train wrecks while they happen) from the likes of you, after you’ve been doing this to others for years?
Republican’t $$
even though Republican’ts have been trying to tell me that my taxes have gone down under their cabal, they have in fact gone up.
Now, Tom, that isn’t exactly true. Your income has gone down, so it just FEELS like your taxes have gone up.
Not sure what Dave in SoCo is getting at.
* $6 billion in mass transit — which is almost universally a money-loser.
Jay Tea, is your argument here that the only way this $6 billion is going to stimulate the economy is if mass transit systems start turning huge profits?
You do understand that the aim of mass transit systems is not necessarily to turn profits at all? It’s aim is to provide mass transit as cheaply and efficiently as possible to the public.
Money spent on mass transit means buying more buses or trains, which someone has to build them, which means someone has to be hired to build them, which means some laid off autoworker can get a job.
Money spent on mass transit means building the infrastructure for mass transit which means building new bus lanes, tracks for light rail, god forbid bullet trains etc etc. all of which means more jobs.
And they’re going to have hire people to drive all these new buses and trains, not to mention maintain them, which means mechanics.
Do you even fucking think about this shit before you post?
* $4 billion for “neighborhood stabilization” — if one damned red penny ends up in the hands of ACORN, who have done far more harm to our democratic process than anyone in the past few years…
Jay Tea, you clearly do not know what neighborhood stabilization is. ACORN doesn’t do it.
“Do you even fucking think about this shit before you post?”
No. The answer is clearly no.
Here in the Phoenix area, it fails to do that. Valley Metro is already looking to cut routes and is looking for a fare increase of anywhere between .50 and 1.00 for a bus ride. This will, of course, screw the poor who actually do rely upon public transportation to get to work or school. And will put more people on the road in their cars.
Will these buses and trains be ordered, built, paid for, and delivered without regard to the demand for their services? What about transit systems with current inventories which are no where near the end of their lifecycle? Will they just put these vehicles into a boneyard? Not that it really matters. $6,000,000,000 is a drop in the bucket for public transportation.
If the point of this is to help out people laid off as a result of the auto industry going belly-up, then wouldn’t it be better to just give the $6,000,000,000 directly to them. Let’s even assume that 1/4 of that will be wasted in developing the support system to hand out this money to people. That is still like $4,500,000,000 in the pockets of these out-of-work autoworkers. Without the added waste of a few thousand busses or a couple of trains ($6,000,000,000 won’t actually do much for light rail. The Valley Metro Rail here in PHX cost $1,400,000,000 to build a 20-mile stretch of track. A stretch of track which basically makes life easier for ASU students, and no one else).
“Here in the Phoenix area, it fails to do that. Valley Metro is already looking to cut routes and is looking for a fare increase of anywhere between .50 and 1.00 for a bus ride. This will, of course, screw the poor who actually do rely upon public transportation to get to work or school. And will put more people on the road in their cars.”
“Will these buses and trains be ordered, built, paid for, and delivered without regard to the demand for their services? What about transit systems with current inventories which are no where near the end of their lifecycle? Will they just put these vehicles into a boneyard? Not that it really matters. $6,000,000,000 is a drop in the bucket for public transportation.”
So… You think it is a waste of money because there are not enough buses now in Phoenix, and $6 billion isn’t enough to fix the problem.
Am I getting that right?
“If the point of this is to help out people laid off as a result of the auto industry going belly-up, then wouldn’t it be better to just give the $6,000,000,000 directly to them.”
Nope. That’s because of the velocity of money is higher for building the buses than just giving out the money. . And if you don’t know what that means, stop talking.
Seriously.
I get the impression that a lot of people here never even took an entry level economics class in university, but they are talking about complex Macroeconomics like their opinions meant something.
No.
I see that you’ve added “lack of reading comprehension” to you character traits CSS. What? “asshattery” and “vulgar snot” weren’t attractive enough for you?
Anyways, Valley Metro’s problem isn’t that it doesn’t have enough vehicles to meet the demand. Their problem is there isn’t enough demand for that they have already. They’re having to lower operating costs by cutting routes and upping fares to increase revenue. Throwing whatever, if any, portion of the $6,000,000,000 for public transportion is PHX’s at the problem isn’t really going to make the people who aren’t taking the bus now take the bus then.
But the VoM will be wiped out by increasing the money supply by $800,000,000,000 over the span of a couple years. So it really would be better for the people this plan is, in theory, supposed to help the most if the gov’t just cut them a check instead of trying to wrap it up in some sort of feel-good master-planning attempt.
Anyways, Valley Metro’s problem isn’t that it doesn’t have enough vehicles to meet the demand. Their problem is there isn’t enough demand for that they have already. They’re having to lower operating costs by cutting routes and upping fares to increase revenue.
Can you cite a source for this, please?
Ask and ye shall receive.
http://www.valleymetro.org/bus/servicecuts
“Ask and ye shall receive.”
Ummm….
“Valley Metro is funded mostly by sales taxes from individual cities and towns, as well as a countywide sales tax. Due to the recent downturn in the economy, budgets funded by various sales taxes have shrunk due to rapidly declining revenues.”
They don’t have the money to operate the vehicles they have because the downturn in the economy is hurting their revenue, which is mostly from sales taxes.
So no, you are wrong.
“I see that you’ve added “lack of reading comprehension” to you character traits…”
Ha ha ha…
That was a good joke, especially after the mistake above.
“What? ‘asshattery’ and ‘vulgar snot’ weren’t attractive enough for you?”
And this is even funnier after you called me racist for not bringing up an unrelated genocide when discussing the war in the former Yugoslavia.
I’ve separated this out because I wanted to make sure your read it and it wasn’t lost inside another post.
Me: “That’s because of the velocity of money is higher for building the buses than just giving out the money”
SFC B: “But the VoM will be wiped out by increasing the money supply by $800,000,000,000 over the span of a couple years.”
Here’s my important point:
It is clear you have no idea what you are talking about. If you had any training in economics, you wouldn’t make such a claim.
The velocity of money being wiped out by an increase in money supply? The money added to the system will INCREASE the velocity of money, because it is increasing the GDP directly by at least that much money. Additionally, people are less likely to hoard money. Without the stimulus, people will stop spending because they will be worried that they will lose their jobs, or they customers will lose their jobs, etc.
On the other hand, giving the money directly to the people would cause the very problem you are talking about. A massive increase in money supply without any increase in GDP would cause the velocity of money to go down while decreasing the value of the money.
Ask and ye shall receive.
Uh, yeah. I found that and other stories on my own citing different reasons for the rate hike than you did. No where did I see anything that said low ridership was the issue.
Can you cite something that backs that claim up?