I changed my mind. Let Joe keep “reporting” and talking. We need for the average American to understand the depraved babbling that passes for intelligence on the right. Go Joe.
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Joe The Plumber, Reconsidered
January 12th, 2009
63 Comments
It’s a good thing that
SamuelJoe did some maunual lifting in his prior career, for now you need really strong arms to pull something that stupid from that far up your ass.Your Modern Republican Party becomes more and more eerily surreal by the minute. Thanks Nixon! Thanks Jay Tea!
For years, conservative wingnut bloggers have pined about their battle against the biased mainstream media, how they are a bunch of David’s against a Goliath, they’re staging a media revolution and blah blah blah… And what intelligent, informed, unbiased, groundbreaking reporting do they deliver? Joe the Plumber. Joe the Motherfucking Plumber. If these morons had any sense of shame, they’d be too embarrassed to ever show their faces in public again.
How do I love that the leading intellectual lights of modern conservatism are Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin? Let me count the ways…
Yeah, he sure is bad at stringing his sentences together. He sounds like Ted Kennedy… or Caroline Kennedy… or Obama without a TelePrompter.
Anyone wanna discuss the substance of what he was saying?
I thought not.
CNN put out a video purportedly of a doctor futilely performing CPR on a wounded boy, who happened to be the cameraman’s brother. Every single doctor who’s commented on the video says it’s fake — the chest compressions are way too soft to be effective. The only reason would be to make sure they don’t accidentally injure the boy, who in all likelihood isn’t injured at all.
During the 2006 Lebanon fighting, Reuters and AP were repeatedly busted faking photos to drum up sympathy for Hezbollah.
Joe also had to race for cover when a rocket warning came in. So he’s already seen a part of the fighting — and reported on it.
Yeah, as a journalist, his style sucks. But so far his substance is a damned sight better than CNN, Reuters, or the AP have produced. Or, at least, a lot less flawed and fraudulent.
I understand that you folks are the ones who prefer style over substance, though, so it’s understandable why you prefer the professional liars over the clumsy amateurishness of Mr. Wurzelbacher.
J.
Leave it to a con to defend an idiot like Joe the flipping Plumber.
“Anyone wanna discuss the substance of what he was saying?”
Maybe you should kick off that discussion, because between saying that reporters shouldn’t report and reminiscing about going to the movies during WW2, I had a hard time figuring out exactly where the substance began.
Anyone wanna discuss the substance of what he was saying?
Huh. Apparently you didn’t.
Yes, by all means, let us re-adopt the 18-century wet navy model of military accountability – let the generals write the history, and edit out all their mistakes. What the civilians don’t see, won’t disturb them, and we can get back to being the kings of our ships and armies without any interference.
Because the generals really are the new kings of Jay Tea’s world.
So it seems the sine qua non of all conservative reportage henceforth will consist solely of holding up any photograph, video, or collection of data which reflects negatively on their worldview and shouting “FAKE!!!”
Do we really need to expend the time and money to send people overseas to do that? Aren’t the cheeto brigades doing it from their basements well enough already for free?
I understand that you folks are the ones who prefer style over substance, though, so it’s understandable why you prefer the professional liars over the clumsy amateurishness of Mr. Wurzelbacher.
Your blog sources include Michelle Malkin, Bob Owens, Pam Oshry and Captain Ed just to name a few. That barely qualfies as clumsy amateur lying.
Jay Tea: “Yeah, he sure is bad at stringing his sentences together. He sounds like Ted Kennedy… or Caroline Kennedy… or Obama without a TelePrompter.”
And you sound like a fucking ‘tard if you want to compare Joe the Plumber to any of those.
“Anyone wanna discuss the substance of what he was saying?”
I think what he is saying is that he preferred the propaganda of the past to realistic reporting of today. I think. It is hard to follow at times. And furthermore, he thinks reporters should be banned from reporting on war zones.
Do you really think that deserves a discussion?
“Joe also had to race for cover when a rocket warning came in. So he’s already seen a part of the fighting — and reported on it.”
And according to Joe, he should be abolished.
“I understand that you folks are the ones who prefer style over substance…”
Two points…
1.) You can ask for both. Here you are getting neither.
2.) You realize George W. Bush wasn’t a cowboy, right? He Crawford ranch was just a prop used to convince suckers like you that he was a down to earth homey sort of guy, and not a super-rich East coast trust fund baby, which is what he was.
So attacking the left for Style over Substance is a wee bit hypocritical.
2.) You realize George W. Bush wasn’t a cowboy, right? He Crawford ranch was just a prop used to convince suckers like you that he was a down to earth homey sort of guy, and not a super-rich East coast trust fund baby, which is what he was.
And did they notice how fast he ditched Crawford once he was done Preznit’ing? Shows how much of a fraud “The Western White House” was.
“How do I love that the leading intellectual lights of modern conservatism are Joe the Plumber and Sarah Palin? Let me count the ways…”
It’s an intellectual race to the bottom!
TBogg did a good smack-down of (not) Joe the (not) plumber.
He linked to a post by The Beast that listed the 50 most loathsom people in 2008. Joe made #20. Here is The Beast’s take on Joe, which also works for the mouth-breathing, redneck wing of the republican party (JT & AO come into mind for some strage reason…):
20. Joe the Plumber
Charges: The Che Guevara of bald, pissed off white men. In a lot of ways, Samuel Wurzelbacher really does represent the average American—basing economic opinions on unrealistic expectations of personal future success, blaming his failure to meet those expectations on minorities and old people, complaining about deadbeats getting his taxes when he isn’t actually paying his taxes, and advertising his own rudimentary historical and mathematical ignorance by warning of creeping socialism in a country whose highest income tax rate has dropped by half in thirty years. “Joe” indeed symbolizes the true American dream—to become undeservedly rich and famous through a dizzyingly improbable stroke of luck. As American folk heroes go, Wurzelbacher ranks somewhere between Hulk Hogan and Bernie Goetz.
Exhibit A: “Social Security is a joke…social security I’ve never believed in, don’t like it. I hate that it’s forced on me.”
Sentence: After blowing his fifteen minutes and all his money on coke and Thai hookers, an infirm, elderly Joe finds that social security actually is a joke, and is finally forced to snake toilets for a living.”
On a side note, I recently read on a liberal blog that some on the right want Sarah Palin / Joe the Plumber as their 2012 ticket. That’s a joke, right?
Please tell me that’s a joke.
Joe says the mainstream media covering the conflict has committed malpractice at the least, and outright fraudulent advocacy at the worst. As I stated above, this is beyond dispute — CNN, Reuters, and AP have all been caught faking photos, staging photos, miscaptioning photos, and in general acting like the propaganda arm of terrorists. (Whether or not they are paid prostitutes, or just doing it for free for their own agenda, I’ll leave to others to decide.)
I’ll take clumsy honesty over glib fakery any day of the week. And yes, you can ask for both, but in this case it’s not one of the options.
And it’s not just “pointing and shouting.” Google up “Zombietime Lebanon Reuters” and see indisputable proof of that particular mess. Or ask any doctor or EMT you know to critique the CPR technique of the Palestinian doctor in the CNN video.
It’s there if you’re willing to open your eyes. Is that too much to ask?
J.
It is hard to follow at times. And furthermore, he thinks reporters should be banned from reporting on war zones.
Honest, somewhat OT question: Isn’t there a case to be made for this? Can even a legitimate war be won when the public sees the carnage firsthand? Keeping in mind, of course, that the public of the ‘Goliath’ combatant is likely to exert political pressure against the government to end the war, while the public of the ‘David’ combatant is unlikely to do any such thing.
Parthenon, when the “reporters” in question represent agencies that have a clear record of sympathizing with one side, when they routinely divulge militarily sensitive information (CNN has been known to give real-time information on rocket attacks, allowing the launchers to use CNN’s reports to correct their aim, just to cite one example), and when they continually insert bias into their articles (Palestinians are killed by Israelis, Israelis are killed by rockets, just to cite one example), then there is a valid military reason to exclude them.
J.
Jay Tea: “Anyone wanna discuss the substance of what he was saying?”
Oliver: “Leave it to a con to defend an idiot like Joe the flipping Plumber.”
Point, Jay Tea.
Anyone wanna discuss the substance of what he was saying?
If there was any, I might.
I’ll take clumsy honesty over glib fakery any day of the week.
Yes, and if there’s anything to be said about Sam Wurzelbacher, who is not a licensed plumber, nor is making 250 Large per annum, nor is he trying to purchase his bosses business, who did twice benefit from government Welfare, and evaded paying taxes, it’s that he’s all about unpolished, regular guy honesty and not at all about glib fakery. Why, just ask his country music representative.
Joe The Plumber ‘08 – whenever = Cindy Sheehan ‘06 – ‘08. Deal with it.
Shorter MrGreyGhost: I can’t defend JtP; I got nuthin.
Joe says the mainstream media covering the conflict has committed malpractice at the least, and outright fraudulent advocacy at the worst.
Uh, no he didn’t. He said “I think media should be abolished from, uh, you know, reporting.” He didn’t add any qualifiers before “media”. He just said “media”.
Now I’m sure Joe needs all the help he can get to spin his babbling into something useful for the right, but as I read his comments, as they stand, he was saying reporters, period, should not be allowed to cover war zones.
His rational for this blanket abolition of war coverage is because the media reports “what’s happening day to day.”
He didn’t say anything about the mainstream media or malpractice or outright fraudulence. He seems to have a problem with reporters, in general, reporting what actually happens in war:
Now if you want to argue that war is, in fact, not hell and that reporters only make it seem that way by focusing on the “atrocities” fine. How far do you think you’ll get with that? At the same, isn’t Joe arguing that he himself shouldn’t even be there? I mean he’s supposed to be a reporter. Does he have access to “the whole story”? Really? Has he actually reported on anything yet or has he just gone over there to offer the same kind of inane meta commentary we can expect from stateside hacks such as yourself?
At any rate, I find it fascinating, Jay Tea, that you insist we focus on the substance of Joe’s comments but then find you have to put words in the guy’s mouth.
Gee, Joe doesn’t like the media. And after how well they treated him, what a surprise. After all, he just asked a question of a guy who came into his neighborhood unannounced, and the next thing he’s getting a national exam that borders on the proctological, complete with state officials rooting around in his personal information looking for dirt. I dunno why he’d be unhappy with the press after that.
J.
This is truly the Golden Age of conservatism. We have Jay ID Tea extolling the virtues of Joe the Plumber–whose name isn’t ‘Joe’ and isn’t a plumber.
What other nonsense will Jay ID Tea endorse?
Joe also had to race for cover when a rocket warning came in. So he’s already seen a part of the fighting — and reported on it.
Wait? What? You mean he had to race for cover when a rocket warning came in and no other reporter has ever had to do this?
Does racing for cover when a rocket warning comes in give him some kind of actual credentials that other reporters don’t have?
Does it, in and of itself, give him “the whole picture”?
The guy ducks for cover and suddenly he understands everything he needs to know about the war in Gaza? Really?
Of course, the answer to all these questions is in the negative.
And yet while Joe complains that reporters don’t have “the whole picture” you’re giving the guy credit for seeing at least “a part of the fighting”?
When and how is Joe going to get “the whole picture,” Jay tea? Won’t that require reporting from Gaza, speaking with Palestinians and maybe even speaking to the people firing those rockets? Or does “the whole picture” mean reporting exactly what your told to report or else reporting whatever it is you think will make your side look good? Is that “the whole picture”?
What, exactly, does “the whole picture” mean to you, Jay Tea?
Joe also had to race for cover when a rocket warning came in.
That is such bullshit. As the non-plumber cum plucky wartime journalist himself said, “Being a Christian I’m pretty well protected by God I believe.” So he didn’t have to run for cover from anything–he’s a Christian. Now maybe he can save some Gazaians and Israels from harm by converting them to the proper religion and end this little disagreement once and for all.
“I’ll take clumsy honesty over glib fakery any day of the week.”
And with Joe the Plumber you get clumsy fakery. Yeah!
And you know who embodied glib fakery more than anyone? That faggot Edward R. Murrow. Ernie Pyle too. Losers both!
If ed got this worked up over other “journalists” who didn’t pay their taxes, I’d respect him more.
If you guys were half as appalled when the MSM was cheerleading us into war you would be more credible.
Jay Tea: Google up “Zombietime Lebanon Reuters” and see indisputable proof of that particular mess. Or ask any doctor or EMT you know to critique the CPR technique of the Palestinian doctor in the CNN video.
It’s there if you’re willing to open your eyes. Is that too much to ask?
Yet in discussions, here and in other threads, you keep bringing up one or two examples and then then trumpet them as if they completely prove your case that the entire group you despise is corrupt and never does anything right.
“Google up “Wifflebat Babe Ruth” and see indisputable proof of that particular mess. Or ask any batting coach or manager you know to critique the swinging technique of Babe Ruth doctor in the CNN video.
Clearly since the guy completely missed the ball at one at bat and fouled out the next two times he’s a complete fake.”
And this from someone who unfailingly supports “Joe” the “Plumber” and his complaints about people who report but “don’t know the whole story behind it half the time”. Why don’t you tell the whole story, Jay?
Shorter SaveFarris: Look over there, something unrelated on Page 6!
Are there really people out there who would defend Toilet Joe–err Joe the Plumber–who is a walking lie? I weep for our future that this man–(who sadly lived very near me in Ohio) would be allowed out–let alone overseas to spread his idiocy.
Sorry ed, but *I* wasn’t the one who put forth the argument that a person’s 1040 should be in order before committing an act of journalism. If you don’t think it’s relevant, you shouldn’t have brought it up in the first place.
Sorry SaveFerris, **I** was merely responding to Jay Tea’s ridiculous assertion that Sam Who’s Not a Licensed Plumber was a shining example of clumsy honesty and not glib fakery. But hey, nice try, Sparky. Maybe next time.
Do you think I could get Diane Sawyer to come over and fix my water heater?
I mean, how hard could it be, amirite?
If you don’t think it’s relevant, you shouldn’t have brought it up in the first place.
This whole thing is irrelevant.
JayTea: “I dunno why he’d be unhappy with the press after that.”
Which is why, after he asked that famous question of Obama, Joe the Plumber was never heard from again. He refused all interviews, shunned the press, and went back to his quiet life of being a fake plumber.
Right on, JayTea.
Yes Joe makes an odd and rather unpolished reporter. However the level of outright propaganda in the more established press organizations has reached seemingly record high levels of stupid. I think most of us already know this or we wouldn’t be reading this blog. Like him or not Mr. Wurzelbacher is actually in a conflict zone giving reporting a go which is more than most of us can say.
Jay Tea: “Gee, Joe doesn’t like the media. And after how well they treated him, what a surprise. After all, he just asked a question of a guy who came into his neighborhood unannounced, and the next thing he’s getting a national exam that borders on the proctological, complete with state officials rooting around in his personal information looking for dirt. I dunno why he’d be unhappy with the press after that.”
Jay Tea, you are an idiot.
What Joe the Plumber did was, on camera, make several claims that didn’t stand up under the slightest scrutiny. It was only after his claims fell apart that the press did any real digging, which is part of their job.
SaveFarris: “Sorry ed, but *I* wasn’t the one who put forth the argument that a person’s 1040 should be in order before committing an act of journalism. If you don’t think it’s relevant, you shouldn’t have brought it up in the first place.”
No, but if you want to complain about how your tax dollars are being spent, you should probably pay your taxes first.
Like him or not Mr. Wurzelbacher is actually in a conflict zone giving reporting a go which is more than most of us can say.
How would he feel about a sixth tour, having seen a dozen buddies die during the first five, with a stop-loss that keeps him in country with no assurance that he will ever leave? While his or her kids grow up and his wife or her husband deal with another year of loneliness thousands of miles away?
If Joe wants the real experience, he can enlist. There are a LOT of people putting more on the line than not-Joe the Not-Plumber, and if they are doing so for a lie, then the media owe us that information. It shouldn’t be subject to filtering by people whose reputations ride on hiding the truth.
Do you think a soldier is MORE or LESS likely to commit an atrocity if he knows that there are reporters watching? Do you think we are MORE likely or LESS likely to get into a failed war for bogus reasons if the reasons for entering it are examined completely by skeptical people?
Mr.Wurzelbacher chooses to eschew his given first name and go by his middle name. Big whoop, he prefers “Joe” over “Sam.” I’d be willing to bet that most of the people here who mock him over that had hissy fits over people referring to “Barack Hussein Obama.”
He got thrust into the spotlight because Obama made an unscheduled stop in Wurzelbacher’s neighborhood and took unscreened questions — and Obama didn’t answer as glibly as he normally does when he has pre-screened questions, softball questions, or a teleprompter at hand. That meant that Wurzelbacher had to be punished for putting Obama in an uncomfortable position. Every single detail of his life had to be scrutinized so he could be discredited and his impertinence buried.
Remember, a state official went digging into his public records to see if she could find anything embarrassing on him — she was suspended, and should have been fired. And I hear he has filed a lawsuit against the state for invasion of privacy — which should be a slam dunk.
So he’s looking to pull a Joseph Wilson/Valerie Plame and convert his sudden, unexpected prominence into a bit of fame and cashing in. Big whoop. As poor a job as he does, I doubt he can cause as much damage as the so-called “professionals” have been doing.
J.
Jay I Tea once again distorts reality.
“Joe” was the moniker given by the McCain campaign–it wasn’t a name Wurzelbacher preferred.
Second, Wurzelbacher lied when he claimed he was about to buy a plumbing business. He could no more afford to buy a business than Jay ID Tea can be counted on for the truth. In fact, Wurzelbacher was not a plumber and couldn’t (legally) provide plumbing services.
Nor did Obama stumble in his answers to Wurzelbacher. Obama took the time to explain his plan–in detail– to Wurzelbacher–something many pols wouldn’t do.
I’m flashing on the Mike Myers character on “Coffee Talk”. No big whoop.
Wurzelbacher was “thrust into the spotlight” because John McCain thrust him there in the next debate after the original “confrontation.”
Weren’t you watching the news, Tea?
Just as he thrust another retard into a a position she was wholly unequipped to deal with.
Actually, Bruce, Obama was the one who put Biden into the limelight — and you might want to fix “she” to “he.”
Oh, and Bruce? “Joe” met up with Obama on October 12, and the debate was three days later. In the internet age, three days is an eon. The video was all over the internet in those two days before the debate.
Personally, I’m not that impressed with Joe The Plumber. He reminds me of quite a few people I’ve known — a bit louder than they need to be, a bit too proud of their less-than-fully-thought-out opinions, too quick to use simplistic labels for political disagreements.
But in a couple areas, he really impressed me.
First off, he “pisses off the right people.” Witness Oliver’s fixation on the guy. It’s kind of like how Oliver thought that the arrest of Sarah Palin’s daughter’s fiance’s mother was worthy of an article — but I don’t recall him discussing Barack Obama’s destitute half-brother or illegal alien aunt.
Second, his little sojourn into Israel has garnered plenty of criticism of his journalistic credentials and abilities — which has, in turn, put increased scrutiny on the “real” reporters and the jobs they are doing.
For that, I find myself saying “Yo, Joe!”
J.
I don’t think it’s Joe himself who pisses people off, it’s how he’s used. He mine as well be called Joe the Puppet. Part of me hates to pick on the guy because he may have a decent head on his shoulders where other topics are concerned… Like, for example, plumbing. But the right not only claims him as a political symbol, but insists on shoving a camera in his face so he can opine about everything — while the rest of the nation cringes.
Another thing to be pissed off about is seeing Joe get the opportunity to do something that, quite frankly, he doesn’t deserve to do. There are plenty of people sitting in my Arabic classes who put actual thought, effort, and hard work into learning about the Middle East… But who gets sent there? Joe the Fucking Plumber. It’s kind of tough not to be pissed off.
tas, Joe was sent by Pajamas Media because they thought it would be to their benefit to do so. I suggest your friends do the same — find an organization that would benefit by their going there and see if they’re willing to do so.
That’s how the system works.
J.
he “pisses off the right people.”
Oliver BEGGED Not-Joe to stick around to continue to expose what passes for thinking on the right. Sounds like O-Dub is the complete opposite of pissed off.
Your reading comprehension may vary, but is asking a guy to stick around an example of being pissed off at him?
his little sojourn into Israel has garnered plenty of criticism of his journalistic credentials and abilities — which has, in turn, put increased scrutiny on the “real” reporters and the jobs they are doing.
You mean like when millions of American marched in the streets because they new W was lying about the WMD, but the media fell for the lie? AFAIK the left blogosphere has been pissed off at the media for being in the tank for W for the last 8 years, so are you now saying that Not-Joe now agrees with Kos?
Daily Kos, Media Matters and Josh Marshall have been doing a much better job of criticizing current journalistic failures than Not-Joe has done with his first and only exposure of his “intellect.” If I was going to say something on TV, I wouldn’t stumble on my words, I would know what I was about to say, and when I said it, IT WOULD MAKE SENSE.
Jay Tea: Obama didn’t answer as glibly as he normally does when he has pre-screened questions, softball questions, or a teleprompter at hand. That meant that Wurzelbacher had to be punished for putting Obama in an uncomfortable position.
Isn’t amazing how JT can work two of his favorite myths into just about any discussion?
Over the course of the campaign Obama has been asked many impromptu and hard questions and has done fine without a telepromptr. What happened to “Joe” after Obama answered his question was not at all due to Obama being “uncomfortable”.
Still looking for that tape of McCain spending 6 minutes to provide a thoughtful answer to someone’s question, BTW. (Not suprising it’s hard to find, I suppose, given Republicans can watch a 6 minute answer and only follow 3 words of it (”spread the wealth”) and even get the meaning of those wrong.)
Jay, I don’t think my friends will ever be lucky enough to find themselves as political pawns which a media group (or other organization) can use to their advantage to get some cheap attention. Which may sound harsh, but let’s be honest here… There’s no system in place here where others can play into fairly. Joe the Plumber is Joe the Lucky.
Yes we need newspapers and television and radio news stations. I don’t think regular news outlets are going away anytime soon. Like it or not we now have blogs and citizen reporters.
Joe is a reporter not a soldiers. Six tours is too many, sounds like it’s time for you to come home. We could pack up and bring everyone within a year or so but I’m not sure that would leave us better off in the long run. If we don’t help the Afghanistanis no one else is going to. We owe those people a great deal from when they fought the Soviets in the eighties. Let’s not forget that.
Yes reporters and news organizations can provide valuable information about conflicts and other related newsworthy events. Yes reporters should be allowed to report. In recent years though they have had some difficulties in not becoming part of the story. Things have gotten too violent.
“Personally, I’m not that impressed with Joe The Plumber.”
But you seem to be emotionally invested in defending him here.
“But in a couple areas, he really impressed me.
First off, he ‘pisses off the right people.’”
Welcome to your permanent minority status.
Seriously. If that’s what it takes to impress you, your party will never recover.
Joe the Plumber pisses us off because he is the Sanjaya of American politics. He was a flash in the pan who became the butt of late night talk show hosts, and some how managed to turn that into a political career.
Jay tea, add to the list “extraordinarily lacking in self awareness” and you’ve just described yourself.
First off, he ‘pisses off the right people.’”
Your modern Republican party. Charming as ever. (Gee, I wonder who else would piss off liberals?)
“the Sanjaya of American politics”
Hehe. I think of him as the Palin of journalism myself (steady stream of pure illogicality flowing from his mouth, e.g., “Journalists shouldn’t cover war like I’m doing”) but the joke would be lost on someone as mentally limited as Jay.
Jay tea, here’s a little assignment for you. Watch this 3 min video by Nic Robertson at CNN.com and tell me how Joe the Plumber’s 17 minutes on PJTV presents a critique of it and the kind of work it represents:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/12/31/robertson.gaza.mideast.latest.cnn?iref=videosearch
I’ve watched both and I’m curious if you’re actually able to articulate how it is that Joe the Plumber’s reporting represents a critique of “real” reporters.
I think there’s a spot for JTP over at wiz bang. Should be top guy in no time.
Obama took the time to explain his plan–in detail– to Wurzelbacher–something many pols wouldn’t do.
And Joe still didn’t get it. “Tap dancing like Sammy Davis, Jr.” indeed.
Joe the Plumber is Joe the Tool.
Fixd.