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President-elect Obama gets to work on cleaning up the GOP’s mess with the Economic Recovery Act.
President-elect Barack Obama on Thursday urged Congress to act quickly to pass sweeping economic stimulus measures, including a tax cut and an infusion of as much as $800 billion, or face the likelihood that ‘this recession could linger for years.’
In making an unusually direct and pointed appeal in remarks at George Mason University in northern Virginia, Mr. Obama was building on a campaign for economic action that he has conducted for weeks now in ever-sharper terms.
Cleaning up the Republican economic mess? Dude, that’s hilarious!
Anyone with an ounce of honesty knows that the root of the problems we have today is sub-prime loans and their ramifications. To say that sub-prime loans were cause by Republicans is blatantly dishonest.
If there is fault, it is the total lack of oversight by Congress Banking Committees.
If there is fault, it is the total lack of oversight by Congress Banking Committees.
And who has run the gov’t for most of the last 8 years?
Like I said: Anyone with an ounce of honesty.
Come on O W, you’re better than that!
Anyone with an ounce of honesty knows…
…that any blog comment which begins “Anyone with an ounce of honesty knows…” is a big steaming pile of bullshit. Look it up, man.
Doesn’t it go back further than 8 years, OW? To the Reagan desire to get “gumment” off people’s backs and the rampant deregulatory climate he established? An always and overwhelmingly Republican syndrome, you betcha.
And which president spent years promoting “the Ownership Society” and bragging about the high rate of home ownership by lower-income Americans? And what party controlled the Congress’ banking committees for most of 12 years?
What do you mean, “You’re better than that”? Did the GOP control Congress from 1995-2007 or not? Did you hear ONE PEEP from President Bush warning of a sub-prime meltdown?
I’ve heard ad nauseum that this is not the GOP’s fault. Who the hell do you think was in charge? I’ve also heard how those dopey Dems “blocked” any attempt at reform. WTF? The freaking Reid-Pelosi Dems couldn’t block a sidewalk! If enough Republicans wanted to “reform” anything from 2001-2007, who was gonna stop ‘em? Harry Fucking Reid?
The lengths to which Republicans will go to make excuses for Bush, and to avoid the blame for their own misdeeds, is truly mind-blowing.
Wow! So much for a clear understanding of the last 4 years.
Here’s a clue guys: The loans that are, and have gone south in the last year and a half are loans that were written in the last 4 years. MAX!
You look awful foolish when you sit there and blame this sub-prime mess on anything that happened prior to 2003.
Oh and by the way, I’m the furthest thing from a BUSH BUTT BOY you’ll find, but I’m also not drinking the Obama economic Kool-aid.
Did you hear ONE PEEP from President Bush warning of a sub-prime meltdown?
Dateline September 11, 2003:
and further down…
The Wikipedia entry for Fannie Mae spells it out:
“The lengths to which
RepublicansDemocrats will go tomake excuses forblame everything on Bush, and to avoid the blame for their own misdeeds, is truly mind-blowing.”There, fixed it for you. Now it’s an accurate statement.
Did you hear ONE PEEP from President Bush warning of a sub-prime meltdown?
Actually, President Bush was warning of the consequences of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae acting as they were back in 2003.
It was Democrats like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and a host of others who were singing the praises of Franklin Raines and the wonderful job that he was doing. The claim that they weren’t blocking action from taking place is a bald-faced lie. It was very easy for Chris Dodd and other Democrats to easily tie up legislation in the Senate and they did, specifically in 2005 when legislation proposed by John McCain would prevented the GSE’s from speculating on the mortgage-based securities they put together. A good deal of their profits came from such speculation. It passed the Senate Banking Committee on a party-line vote signaling that there was no way Senate Democrats were going to allow it to even hit the floor for a vote.
The GOP is not blameless in this, but to claim Obama’s stimulus plan is the tonic needed to clean up a mess created wholly by the GOP is a steaming pile so large, the stench can’t be contained.
The sub-prime loans that have, and are going South, are loans that primarily were written in the last 4 years when all the loan qualifying rules were ‘thrown out’ and Congressional Banking Oversight evaporated.
Do your homework.
Uh – huh.
Notice I said “if ENOUGH Republicans” wanted to reform anything.
Let’s see, the Dems couldn’t block war funding, they couldn’t stop torture at Gitmo, they couldn’t stop warrantless wiretapping, or anything else the GOP wanted, but they diabolically schemed to effectively thwart reform of the GSEs, regardless of the risk to the economy.
And Dear Leader was so focused on GSE reform that he forgot all about his plan to gamble the SS fund on the stock market.
Well, at least you said “the GOP is not totally blameless in this.”
You go from an economics discussion right to torture, war-funding, and wiretaps.
PFFFT!
And who chaired the Banking committees for the first two of the last four years? And who was in charge of the executive branch agencies supervising the financial markets all four of those years?
No no no, dude, I only bring those things up to illustrate that the Dems have been unable to block anything the Republicans REALLY wanted to do, at least untill 2007.
Look, I know there are such things as parliamentary maneuvers, etc., that the minority party can employ. I don’t claim that this is solely a GOP mess, either.
But there is more to this trainwreck than sub-prime. Running a hugely expensive war “off the books” and on borrowed money wasn’t helpful. Cutting taxes AT THE START OF A WAR, a stunt that has never been pulled by ANY nation’s leader in fucking history as far as I know, was stupid too. Any number of cases can be made for why this is, mostly, “the GOP’s mess” that Obama has to now clean up.
You have to remember the rules:
It’s the Republicans’ fault for not fighting hard enough to head off the crisis.
It’s not the Democrats’ fault that they fought off the Republicans’ attempts to head off the crisis.
And for god’s sake, don’t bring up Barney Frank’s long-term relationship with a Fannie Mae exec, Chris Dodd’s sweetheart mortgage from Countrywide, the other Democrats who got “Friends of Angel” sweetheart deals, Deval Patrick’s tenure on the board of Countrywide, two Fannie Mae CEOs who advised the Obama campaign, Dodd and Obama getting the most money from Fannie and Freddie, Clinton’s expansion of the subprime market in the 1990s… those are all IRRELEVANT. And probably hateful.
J.
Yep, it’s all Bush’s fault…
Perhaps more to the point I wonder about the implications of the trillian dollar increase in the money supply and inflation. I know nobodies said trillion yet but is there any doubt they won’t push through that number? But back to economic questions.
We have a case where a traditional hedge against inflation, real estate, is still overvalued by say a third. If inflation kicks in like it has every other time a government has made money out of thin air that will make for an interesting situation. Historically inflation has been beneficial for people willing to assume debt. Will the positive yield from inflation making debt cheaper to repay exceed the negative numbers of real estate dropping to its corrected value.
As this is going on, it looks like shrinking global output is reducing demand and bringing the price of most commodities down. Global output capacity has never been greater. Interesting times.
It will be amusing to observe the economic theories bandied about by some of the usual liberal suspects here in OllieLand.
>It will be amusing to observe the economic theories bandied about by some of the usual liberal suspects here in OllieLand.
Hah! When is the last time you’ve seen Oliver talk about anything resembling an economic theory? This blog is very simple – D good, R bad. If anything is bad, R must somehow be the cause. If you want partisan finger pointing, you go to ow.com. If you want analysis, insightful discussion and/or reference material, you go elsewhere.
The economic collapse of America happened under George W. Bush.
So did 9/11.
But I see the lame attempts at revisionist history have begun on, of all places, a liberal blog.
You guys realize you got trounced in November, correct? Because Americans no longer trust Republicans with leading our country?
Just checking.
Also, “I’m the furthest thing from a BUSH BUTT BOY”
Your words, not mine. They fit perfectly, however.
Haplo,
Yeah I know you’re right , but it’s a guilty pleasure to watch the kids that can’t swim drift into the deep end of the pool.
The economic collapse of America happened under George W. Bush.
So did 9/11.
But I see the lame attempts at revisionist history have begun on, of all places, a liberal blog.
One of the longest and greatest economic expansions in history occurred under Ronald Reagan.
The USSR collapsed under Reagan as well.
Your logic dictates he gets full credit for those events happening.
Oh wait. You’re a leftist. Objectivity, reason and critical thinking are foreign to people like you.
“One of the longest and greatest economic expansions in history occurred under Ronald Reagan.”
I don’t think you can back that up with facts.
“Yeah I know you’re right , but it’s a guilty pleasure to watch the kids that can’t swim drift into the deep end of the pool.”
One word: Scoreboard.
Hold your breath CS. You’re in way over your head.
I give AO all the credit in the world for not saying, “Your inn way over you’re head.”
You’re doing great.
Especially this time of night. (‘Cause AO has him a few belts of an evenin’.)
“One of the longest and greatest economic expansions in history occurred under Ronald Reagan.”
Citations, please? Facts? Although I’ll admit he had the good sense to raise taxes in his second term to help stem the defecit. The greatest economic expansion by far in the past decades was under your friend Bill Clinton. Don’t believe me? Ask the American electorate.
I actually give Reagan some credit, especially in light of what a disaster George W. Bush has been. Honestly, Nixon was a far better president than Chimpy.
But you don’t really have a point, do you? I stated that under Bush II a) the greatest act of domestic terrorism was allowed to happen and b) arguably the worst economic crisis in American history (in dollar terms, it actually is much worse than the Great Depression) has taken place.
And you respond with Reagan? Oh but I forgot, you don’t know how to argue so all you can do is change the subject.
Go upstairs and ask mom for another PB and J with the crusts cut off, Jay.
I stated that under Bush II a) the greatest act of domestic terrorism was allowed to happen and b) arguably the worst economic crisis in American history (in dollar terms, it actually is much worse than the Great Depression) has taken place.
So you’re saying that regardless of the root causes or any events that occurred prior to Bush being in office, or that were beyond his control (i.e. Congress)… it doesn’t matter, since they happened on his watch, they’re his fault.
Gotcha.
So if a terrorist attack happens in the next 4 years… we know it will be Obama’s fault.
If the economic crisis continues or even deepens, or if a new problem surfaces in the next 4 years… we know it will be Obama’s fault.
For the next 4 years, while Obama’s at the helm, ANYTHING bad that happens in the country… all Obama’s fault.
Thanks for clarifying the rules.
Thanks for clarifying the rules.
Dude, we all know Teh Rules: IOKIYAR.
I don’t think you can back that up with facts.
Yeah, kind of like how people here have, so far, been unable to back up any of the claims thrown around about “Obama has to clean up the GOP’s mess” or “mostly, the GOP’s mess” with any facts either.
Just a lot of the usual Bush/GOP=Bad, Obama/Dems=Good.
Dude, we all know Teh Rules: IOKIYAR.
Apparently not, dude.
Actually, the post-WWII economic expansion under Truman/Eisenhower and the Clinton expansion were both a lot larger than Reagan’s and unlike Reagan’s some of those gains actually went to the middle class in those years.
And yes, “it’s the Democrats fault” about the banking crisis is the silliest argument ever. Not actually backup aside from facts with less legitimate sources than your average Ann Coulter book.
I thought Republicans were all about personal responsibility? Turns out, they’re actually whiny little cry-babies. Eight years of a Republican presidency, six years of Republican-controlled Congress, and the country is a complete mess. Iraq was a costly failure that we’re still paying for. America has gone from the lone superpower to being a global laughing-stock. Simply put: Republicans fucked up my country.
Don’t believe me? Just ask the majority of Americans — they’ve thrown your sorry asses to the curb.
“So if a terrorist attack happens in the next 4 years… we know it will be Obama’s fault.”
Of course it would be his fault. If something as brutal yet preventable as 9/11 occurred on his watch, you’re damn right I’d blame him.
What part of “Bin Laden determined to strike within US” don’t you guys understand?
And yes, “it’s the Democrats fault” about the banking crisis is the silliest argument ever.
And yet you offer no facts to dispute this or to back up the assertion that it was all the Republicans’ fault.
I think it’s pretty clear that you can find both Democrats AND Republicans who contributed to this mess. However, the difference between them is that the only ones on record as trying to actually do something to stop the train before it jumps the tracks are Republicans:
In 2003, Bush proposes the most significant regulatory overhaul in the housing finance industry since the savings and loan crisis in the 1990’s. Democrats, led by Barney Frank, push back.
In 2004, during hearings on the illegal bookkeeping uncovered at Fannie & Freddie, House Republicans push for increased scrutiny of Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac. They are pushed back by Democrats, who argue “Crisis? What crisis?”.
In 2005, John McCain and other Republicans sponsored a bill requiring greater Fannie Mae / Freddie Mac regulation in 2005. It was blocked procedurally by Democrats.
Hell, as recent as September of 2008, Democratic Congressman Artur Davis (one of the Congressmen pushing back against the Republicans in 2004 in the video above) admits that Democrats dropped the ball on reigning in the failed institutions and calls on fellow Democrats to do the same.
There. You see what I did above? I backed up my claim about the Democrats’ culpability in the current economic crisis with actual facts and links. Feel free to do the same.
Not actually backup aside from facts with less legitimate sources than your average Ann Coulter book.
You may want to take another shot at crafting this sentence. You obviously spent so much time working in an Ann Coulter insult that you forgot to make it a coherent statement.
If your claim is that the facts backing up the “it’s the Democrats fault” assertion are from illegitimate sources, you may want to look again. Or do you not consider the New York Times a legitimate source? How about video of the actual people arguing for and against increased scrutiny and oversight of Fannie & Freddie, as I provided above?
So the Republican argument is now, “We were in charge of all branches of government but we failed to keep those pesky Democrats from ruining the housing industry.”
Uh-huh. Nice try Cons. By this logic, your party is far too weak-minded to ever run the country again.
But thanks for playing!
Let’s see here. 2003/2004/2005, what do all these years have in common? Oh yes, complete control of the legislative and executive branch by the Republican Party. So, if the GOP really wanted to do something, they could have.
I’m not even getting into the fact that when you look at the actual numbers, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac actually had a pretty decent record on subprime mortgages (much better than the private much less regulated than Fannie and Freddie mortgage market) and that the problem with FM and FF is that they were converted from fully public institutions to quasi-private institutions looking at profit instead of principle.
Or for that matter, the fact the GOP was pushing idea that their was nothing, nothing I say wrong with the economy (“the fundamentals of the economy are sound!”) until the bottom fell completely out.
It’s no surprise that the party that boldly claims “Government is the enemy” turns out to be completely incapable of running the government.
Indeed the perpetually annoyed Jaim has a point. The Republicans greatest failure was in not shrinking the govt. while they had the chance. It is a shallow consolation that as bad as the growth under Bush was it would have been worse with Gore or Kerry.
Amused Observer, Jan 10th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
It is a shallow consolation that as bad as the growth under Bush was it would have been worse with Gore or Kerry.
It is a source of endless mirth that Republican’ts can somehow convince themselves that anyone could have been worse than WPE. I love the way that they couldn’t even wait until his sorry ass hit the door on the way out to start revising history to cover up all of the crimes that the Republican’t junta has been engaging in for (at least) the last eight years. Good luck with that, sparky…