Would the Minnesota senate race have been much further apart and in favor of the Democrat if they hadn’t nominated a celebrity like Franken? I’m pretty cold on the idea of nominating celebrities for positions like this, even ones who clearly have a strong grasp of the issues like Franken does. This election doesn’t do much to sway me away from that position.
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I’m not so sure, O, remember how well hyper-experienced politician Walter Mondale ran replacing Wellstone in 2002 (and yes, I do remember the ridiculous press coverage of the Wellstone memorial). Also note that Franken’s challenger for the Dem nom was Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer, not exactly an experienced candidate who would’ve sent fear through the GOP…
Please. Franken earned his shot at the title by winning the primary. It’s not like he was “selected” from on high.
He started working on his bid very early, he is as qualified as anyone to be a first time senator. Most important, he is on record with his books as exposing all the crap we are so tired of in government and media. Now he has a bully pulpit, and he’s a guy who knows how to use it.
He’s also a much better actor than Reagan or Schwarzenneger, or even George Murphy.
He ran for office, he was on the ballot. TV-star Fred Thompson failed at the same game.
Granted name recognition is Franken’s greatest asset but he put himself in front of the voters and they liked what they saw. Something Caroline Kennedy hasn’t done.
There is no requirement to be a county commissioner before running for a higher office. In fact that was kinda the system pre-imperial, republican Rome had: aedil, praetor, tribune, consul each step taken in order. Didn’t work out so well for the Republic.
IMHO – The fact that he made this a dog fight against a relative shoo-in says a lot about his appeal to the voters.
Despite the increasing number of entertainers who have run for office (Reagan, Schwarzenegger, Ventura, Sonny Bono, Fred Grandy, Franken, even Eastwood as mayor of Carmel) I don’t see anything inherently objectionable in it. I suppose being a “celeb” could turn some folks off, but probably fewer than those who are drawn to vote for a person because of their celebrity. Schwarzenegger certainly garnered a lot of votes from those who just liked the idea of electing “The Governator”.
Anyway, as long as they can do the job I don’t see why past profession should be any kind of major factor. Fred Grandy once said something like “Sure, folks may be more likely to come see me because they want to see Gopher, but they’re going to hear about farm price supports.”
To Franken’s enduring credit, he did write what may be the best piece of sketch comedy ever: The Pepsi Syndrome.
Coleman’s never ever ever done anything that cool. Plus he’s an ignorant asshole.
Yeah, remember how awful it was when that Paul Wellstone guy ran for the Minnesota senate seat with no prior elected experience?
Jesus, man. Franken has more ties to Minnesota than Hillary Clinton ever had to New York. He campaigned in the state, ran in the primary, and won the DFL nomination. Franken’s “celebrity” making the race close is something you should blame on Norm Coleman, since harping about Franken’s “naughty language” as a comedian was all he could talk about given his own dismal record and upcoming ethics charges.
Debating Franken’s previous career in the context of his political campaign is as stupid as the “Shut Up and Sing” right-wingers. Being famous doesn’t somehow magically rob you of the ability to be good at politics. For godssakes, the most well-liked Republican president did buddy movies with a fucking chimpanzee.
I’m right there with you on the celebrity thing. I would have had a very hard time voting for Franken. And if Matthews goes against Specter here in PA, well–I’ll go for the single bullet theory man.
You may be right that Al’s previous career directed votes away from him. If so, that’s a shame, because I think he’ll be a great senator. Probably hasn’t been one like him since- well, Paul Wellstone.
Rob McMonigal: I’m right there with you on the celebrity thing. I would have had a very hard time voting for Franken.
I’m honestly curious. Can you explain more as to why you would have a very hard time voting for Franken? Is there some position of his you disagree with? Some reason you don’t think he would be represent the interests of his constituents?
Or is it just as simplistic as “He was an entertainer therefore he can’t be a politician.”
Sure–I don’t think anyone should be a US Senator without holding prior elective office. That’s just a personal belief of mine.
Sure–I don’t think anyone should be a US Senator without holding prior elective office.
So no jumping from high school to the pros, gotta go to college first.
But why?
Franken was the only candidate running who was going to have a chance of raising enough money to compete with Coleman, who entered the race with an insanely large war chest. Mike Ciresi talked about self-funding, but couldn’t have done it on that scale, and Nelson-Pallmeyer was at his best an underwhelming candidate.
Rob: Sure–I don’t think anyone should be a US Senator without holding prior elective office. That’s just a personal belief of mine.
To echo Parthenon, but why? I’m not trying to argue with your personal belief here, I just trying to understand it. I’m sure folks could cite several examples of people who never held elective office before becoming Senator but who still served well, and several examples of people who held many other elective offices first but did very badly in the US Senate.
So why do you believe prior office is necessary? What essential ingredient would a person elected directly to the Senate lack? And is elective office the only way to get it?
Is it that some executive or legislative experience is needed? What of the CEO or lobbyist or jurist who chooses to run? Certainly they would have experience running things, working with people to craft and pass legislation, etc. Disqualified just because they didn’t run for a smaller office first?
How many other elective offices at what level would they have to hold? Only governors should run for Senate? Would several terms in a state legislature be sufficient? What about just one term? Is being Student Council President be sufficient?
I can’t find a link, but there was a cartoon (Bill Mauldin, I think) with Ted Kennedy talking to JFK and explaining that he WAS starting out at the bottom. “I’m running for the Senate.”
“Franken was the only candidate running who was going to have a chance of raising enough money to compete with Coleman, who entered the race with an insanely large war chest. Mike Ciresi talked about self-funding, but couldn’t have done it on that scale, and Nelson-Pallmeyer was at his best an underwhelming candidate.”
YES. YES. YES.
If the MN DFL put up their normal, bland, DFL’r, Normie would have stomped him/her (anyone remember Ann Wynia?*). Franken had the cash, name recognition, & chutzpah to take on Normie. The positives for Franken far outweighed the negatives.
*= She was beat 49-44% by a former local teevee news reader turned one term extreme right comgressman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Grams
Parthenon;
It also has to be said that Franken was able to raise the necessary funds to defeat Coleman due to his name. Would Ciresi have been able to raise the same funds? Nelson-Pallmeyer?
Franken has better progressive credentials than most Democrats these days. I admit, he celebrity past made the race harder than it should have been. However, that’s partially due to a poor campaign. Franken should have hit Norm Coleman hard the first time he tried that shit.
He deserves to win, and the country will benefit when he does.
Franken being aware issues puts him way ahead of the majority of the republicans where is being obtuse is mandatory.
That his job was entertainment is immaterial. We have plenty of big business elites and lawyers that way more clueless.
“That his job was entertainment is immaterial.”
I disagree.
Way back during the early days of SNL Franken wrote a skit where Jimmy Carter was irradiated and grew into a giant. In the skit there was a press conference, which went something like this…
Reporter 1,: Is is true that the president has grown to more than 70 feet tall?
White House Press Secretary: No, that is absolutely untrue and it is irresponsible for the press to be spreading that scandalous lie.
Reporter 2,: Is is true that the president has grown to more than 60 feet tall?
White House Press Secretary: …. No comment.
In that 4-line bit, Franken summed up politics better than most pundits could in a 400 page book.
For me, his work as an entertaining has shown he has true political awareness and that’s a selling point for me.
Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer would have been the absolutely perfect candidate to run against Norm Coleman. Jack is principled, articulate, courageous, visionary, moral. In other words, JNP would have been the antithesis to Coleman and, in fact, the entire corruption of the Bush administration and their enablers. Instead of getting sucked into the mud-slinging, we might actually have had a chance at debating the issues. Unfortunately, the state party convention decided to go with the celebrity who had a lot of outside money. It didn’t do much good. Even with an imploding economy and a huge Minnesota Obama win, Franken is still not a clear winner nearly 7 weeks after the election. Not picking Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer was a tragic mistake that will haunt us all for many years to come.
Franken’s celebrity is why he is in a deadlock with Coleman in an Obama landslide in traditionally Democratic Minnesota. People didn’t see him as someone who had done enough of significance with his life before he ran for office to think of him as a serious choice for the Senate. That is part of the reason why a third party candidate, Dean Barkley, got 14% of the vote.
I was a state delegate for the Democratic Party. While Franken won the endorsement, the majority of the endorsing Convention Delegates had come to the conclusion that Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer was the superior candidate. Enough Franken pledged delegates were ready to switch to Nelson-Pallmeyer if there was a second round of voting that we were quite sure that Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer would have been the candidate had he survived the first round of votes. There were so many Franken pledged delegates because Franken was in the race early, which a rich and famous man can do.
a friend who voted Barkley is convinced, as I am, that Nelson-Pallmeyer would have been elected Senator in Minnesota had the Democratic Party endorsed him.
Nelson-Pallmeyer almost took the party endorsement on a fractiion of Franken’s money. Had he been endorsed, sufficient money would have flowed in. Voters do not look to see who had the most money to decide who to vote for. Dean Barkley got 14% in Minnesota on around $300,000 raised. Voters vote for who has the authenticity, the message, the personal qualities they like. We had a fantastic candidate with a fantastic message in Jack Nelson-Pallmeyer. The biggest tragedy of this 2008 electiion is what the Senate is missing in not getting Jack onto the National political stage.
I’ve never understood the appeal of Nelson-Pallmeyer, and think he would have been toast in a general election. This is a guy who, when asked a question about global warming, said that he cried for an hour after seeing “An Inconvenient Truth.” Imagine what he would have done after seeing a negative ad about himself.
“Franken’s celebrity is why he is in a deadlock with Coleman in an Obama landslide in traditionally Democratic Minnesota. People didn’t see him as someone who had done enough of significance with his life before he ran for office to think of him as a serious choice for the Senate.”
I agree here, however, if he wins (and that looks relatively safe at this point) then next time that won’t be a problem and we will have a progressive in the Senate that will win with ease. (Assuming the national party doesn’t fuck things up.)
Coleman is only this close because Franken wasn’t aggressive enough defending his entertainer past while attacking Coleman’s record on the issues and ethic charges.
CSS: (Assuming the national party doesn’t fuck things up.)
Never a safe bet, alas.