Comments on: The Ultimate (This Week) In Conservative Straw-mannery http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/ Like Kryptonite To Stupid Fri, 12 Mar 2010 00:24:11 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: The Reality-Based Dave http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-130058 The Reality-Based Dave Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:56:51 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-130058 Want to work a 12-16hr day instead of 8? Blame the unions. Want to work 6 1/2 days per week instead of 5? Blame the untons. Want to compete with children for a job? Blame the unions. Want to get paid whatever the company says, even if it is $5 per day? Blame the unions. Want to do any & all dangerous jobs, without regards to your own safety? Blame the unions. Want to pay for medical insurance by yourself? blame the unions. Want to work every day without any vacation? Blame the unions. Want to not get any compensation for getting hurt on the job? Blame the unions. Want to not get paid when sick? Blame the unions. And those were off the top of my head. Olliver: I agree that some unions were/are corrupt, but unions are neccessary until the workers have the same power as management. Want to work a 12-16hr day instead of 8?
Blame the unions.
Want to work 6 1/2 days per week instead of 5?
Blame the untons.
Want to compete with children for a job?
Blame the unions.
Want to get paid whatever the company says, even if it is $5 per day?
Blame the unions.
Want to do any & all dangerous jobs, without regards to your own safety?
Blame the unions.
Want to pay for medical insurance by yourself?
blame the unions.
Want to work every day without any vacation?
Blame the unions.
Want to not get any compensation for getting hurt on the job?
Blame the unions.
Want to not get paid when sick?
Blame the unions.

And those were off the top of my head.
Olliver: I agree that some unions were/are corrupt, but unions are neccessary until the workers have the same power as management.

]]> By: Parthenon http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-129923 Parthenon Sun, 14 Dec 2008 16:42:00 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-129923 Every time one of those panzer tank SUVs passes me on the highway carrying one or two people, I take a little childish joy in the big three's problems, I'll admit it. Of course I don't want them to sink, but still... <i>For conservatives, this is a central tenet of their failed ideology: mythmaking about small and efficient things, even when it isn’t practical in the real world.</i> Mythology is definitely the right word here. Every time one of those panzer tank SUVs passes me on the highway carrying one or two people, I take a little childish joy in the big three’s problems, I’ll admit it. Of course I don’t want them to sink, but still…

For conservatives, this is a central tenet of their failed ideology: mythmaking about small and efficient things, even when it isn’t practical in the real world.

Mythology is definitely the right word here.

]]> By: Oliver Willis http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-129901 Oliver Willis Sun, 14 Dec 2008 05:48:09 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-129901 Unions have too much corruption in their past and are regularly so anti-innovation that I will likely never be a knee-jerk supporter. Unions have too much corruption in their past and are regularly so anti-innovation that I will likely never be a knee-jerk supporter.

]]> By: Sean D. Martin http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-129884 Sean D. Martin Sun, 14 Dec 2008 01:06:07 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-129884 Tim Fuller: <i>The government could buy all the stock in Ford, GM and Chrysler (effectively buying the companies)and it would only cost three billion dollars.</i> I haven't checked the latest market capitalization figures, but I'd be very surprised to find the combined value of the "Big 3" is that low. Ford alone was larger than that not so long ago. But in any event, it is a nice idea. Why give them $25 billion if we could just buy the entire companies for less than that? Yeah, I known. "Socialism". Tim Fuller: The government could buy all the stock in Ford, GM and Chrysler (effectively buying the companies)and it would only cost three billion dollars.

I haven’t checked the latest market capitalization figures, but I’d be very surprised to find the combined value of the “Big 3″ is that low. Ford alone was larger than that not so long ago.

But in any event, it is a nice idea. Why give them $25 billion if we could just buy the entire companies for less than that? Yeah, I known. “Socialism”.

]]> By: Tim Fuller http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-129865 Tim Fuller Sat, 13 Dec 2008 21:17:04 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-129865 Sweet Jeebus, I am a knee jerk supporter of unions,as the alternative currently being shown is incoherently worse (as well as evil). Come on board OW. The government could buy all the stock in Ford, GM and Chrysler (effectively buying the companies)and it would only cost three billion dollars. Then let the unions hire the new management. Sweet. Enjoy. Sweet Jeebus, I am a knee jerk supporter of unions,as the alternative currently being shown is incoherently worse (as well as evil). Come on board OW.

The government could buy all the stock in Ford, GM and Chrysler (effectively buying the companies)and it would only cost three billion dollars. Then let the unions hire the new management. Sweet.

Enjoy.

]]> By: Republicans Discover The Relativity Law of Contracts « The Long Goodbye http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-129845 Republicans Discover The Relativity Law of Contracts « The Long Goodbye Sat, 13 Dec 2008 15:59:37 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-129845 [...] Corporate lawyers and Republican lobbyist Rick Berman has put up a little political astro-turf site called “LaborPains” on which he has inconvertible proof ( the Google link shows lots of right-wing echoes of this absurdity) that unions are responsible for the collapse of the domestic auto industry. That proof consists of  pictures of stacks of documents. One with a can of cola and one with a ruler, so that viewers might see the proof for themselves. If the chemists that work in quality control at Coke-Cola used the same logic to do their jobs, Berman would be dead now. H/T to Oliver Willis -The Ultimate (This Week) In Conservative Straw-mannery [...] [...] Corporate lawyers and Republican lobbyist Rick Berman has put up a little political astro-turf site called “LaborPains” on which he has inconvertible proof ( the Google link shows lots of right-wing echoes of this absurdity) that unions are responsible for the collapse of the domestic auto industry. That proof consists of  pictures of stacks of documents. One with a can of cola and one with a ruler, so that viewers might see the proof for themselves. If the chemists that work in quality control at Coke-Cola used the same logic to do their jobs, Berman would be dead now. H/T to Oliver Willis -The Ultimate (This Week) In Conservative Straw-mannery [...]

]]> By: LibraryMark http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-129838 LibraryMark Sat, 13 Dec 2008 14:00:00 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-129838 Leave it to the cons to gauge whether a union contract is good or bad by using a ruler. Makes it much easier for the stupid among the republicans to understand. Leave it to the cons to gauge whether a union contract is good or bad by using a ruler. Makes it much easier for the stupid among the republicans to understand.

]]> By: Mylegacy http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/12/12/the-ultimate-this-week-in-conservative-straw-mannery/#comment-129815 Mylegacy Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:32:58 +0000 http://www.oliverwillis.com/?p=11851#comment-129815 "GM pays more than a thousand dollars per vehicle for their 'legacy health care costs.'" In Canada, Europe and Japan these costs are picked up by all businesses and individuals in their taxes. Wikipedia says the US pays 15.2% of its GDP on "health care" and that "45.7 million Americans have no health insurance." France (which has a GOLD plated - Doctor comes to your house - amazing system) pays 10.5% of its GDP with zero people not covered. Sweden pays 9.1% of GDP with zero uncovered. Canada pays 10.0% of GDP with zero uncovered...you get the idea. Also according to Wikipedia in, France, Canada and Sweden people can expect to live to "over 80." The US is "77.5 to 80." You pay approximately 50% more for less. Why? Because on this issue - and many, many others the American working class and middle class vote AGAINST their own interest. Approximately 50% of Americans CONSISTENTLY vote against their own interest. Why bother wasting Democracy on them? “GM pays more than a thousand dollars per vehicle for their ‘legacy health care costs.’” In Canada, Europe and Japan these costs are picked up by all businesses and individuals in their taxes.

Wikipedia says the US pays 15.2% of its GDP on “health care” and that “45.7 million Americans have no health insurance.” France (which has a GOLD plated – Doctor comes to your house – amazing system) pays 10.5% of its GDP with zero people not covered. Sweden pays 9.1% of GDP with zero uncovered. Canada pays 10.0% of GDP with zero uncovered…you get the idea. Also according to Wikipedia in, France, Canada and Sweden people can expect to live to “over 80.” The US is “77.5 to 80.”

You pay approximately 50% more for less.

Why?

Because on this issue – and many, many others the American working class and middle class vote AGAINST their own interest. Approximately 50% of Americans CONSISTENTLY vote against their own interest. Why bother wasting Democracy on them?

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