Think Progress: “Today, President Bush honored 24 recipients of this year’s award, including actor Gary Sinise and Teach for America founder Wendy Kopp. Also included in that mix was Chuck Colson, “the first member of the Nixon administration to serve prison time for Watergate-related offenses.””
>> Colson called abortion “the root of the” illegal immigration “problem”
>> Colson again blamed American “decadence” for inspiring radical Islamic terrorism
Only a little while left, but Bushy is still knocking ‘em out of the park.
(Tom Tomorrow art)
…you ARE familiar with what Colson has done with his life since he was released from prison, right?
He is tremendously repentant of his crimes, and has spent over 30 years in prison ministry. The man literally turned his life around, started a new life, and has done tremendous good works.
Colson has done far more good since Watergate than most of us do in our lifetimes. He deserves to be honored — he has, truly, redeemed himself of his crimes.
For fun, compare his repentance and penance with that of, say, Robert Byrd or Ted Kennedy or Bill Clinton or even Oliver North.
J.
And that still doesn’t mitigate the fact that he is a criminal. Kennedy, Clinton, and Byrd aren’t. Furthermore, they do have done much good in their lives… oh wait, they’re Democrats, so of course their works get ignored by the likes of you.
Ben: oh wait, they’re Democrats, so of course their works get ignored by the likes of you
But, of course, you’d never ignore the works of someone just because they are a Republican.
And that still doesn’t mitigate the fact that he is a criminal.
Oh. Never mind.
And that still doesn’t mitigate the fact that he is a criminal.
Right. Perhaps if he had been a cop killer like Mumia Abu-Jamal or a founding member of one of the most violent gangs in California like Tookie Williams, Colson could then enjoy the accolades of the left.
But to be a man truly repentant of what he did and then dedicating his life to bettering the lives of men in prison (you know, attempting to help actually REHABILITATE them) is something to be treated with scorn.
And what good has Robert Byrd done other than live off the public tit for the majority of his life?
The quotes I posted from Colson are after his supposed Jesus conversion. You righties will believe any bullshit, and I don’t know WTF Mumia or Tookie Williams have to do with anything. You certainly won’t find myself or CAP arguing in their favor anywhere in any archives. Straw, as usual.
For a guy whose bread and butter is the hasty generalization, it takes a brass pair to condemn a strawman.
You may not argue in favor of Mumia or Tookie, but that certainly is not true of your “standard issue progressive Democrat.”
Oliver, you –
not all black people, just you –
not all liberals, just you -
not all bloggers, just you –
are a joke.
For a guy whose bread and butter is the hasty generalization
Since it’s O-Will’s bread and butter, surely you could rattle off three of his most egregious hasty generalizations. Now hop to it!
Throwing kitschy awards at Chuck Colson smacks of the “pissing off liberals” bulljive, a bread-and-butter position devoid of any substance of many a wingnut (e.g., “drill baby drill”, opposition to gay marriage, Fox News, etc.). Commander Bunnypants didn’t come up with the idea for this (he doesn’t come up with any ideas–he’s a royal figurehead, as we all know). But who did? I’m just curious.
Let’s see… Colson, during Watergate, has a truly profound religious conversion. He throws aside a chance to walk and instead arranges to plead guilty to a crime he is not charged with — but believes he committed — and does his time in prison. Then he spends over 30 years working on helping prisoners by starting a prison-based evangelical program, literally “giving his life” to Jesus and his fellow man. Along the way, he says a few things that you don’t like (and I’m not to fond of) but are entirely legal and consistent with his religious and moral and political beliefs, so for that his literal decades of good works don’t count?
Oh, and while Byrd isn’t a convicted criminal, I’m fairly comfortable he broke a FEW laws while he was a Kleagle for the Klan. Bill Clinton had to give up his law license for lying under oath, and Ted Kennedy — thanks to being Edward Moore Kennedy and not just Edward Moore — lost his license for six months for killing Mary Jo Kopechne. Edward Moore would have been charged with at least leaving the scene of a fatal accident.
And let’s head off one comparison right now: Chappaquiddick was 1969, Colson’s conversion was in 1974, so they’re not so far apart historically.
Colson did some vile things in his life, right up until he had his literal “come to Jesus” moment.” And since then, he’s been nothing but an exemplary citizen and an outstanding human being. He has achieved some truly great things, and has never denied or hid from his past. But because he has some opinions on some matters that Oliver doesn’t like, everything else is irrelevant.
Heck of a double standard you got there, Ollie.
J.
“Colson did some vile things in his life,…”
Like uttering some pretty disgusting things (and quite recently, at that) that Oliver highlighted.
Why should an American-basher (check out the second quote that Oliver highlighted) be given such a prominent award?
But because he has some opinions on some matters that Oliver doesn’t like, everything else is irrelevant.
When people have a platform and spew vile hateful crap like Colson has, no, I ain’t dancing in the street. Colson was a crook and a contributor to one of the worst blights on American history. Bill Clinton got some on the side.
Hmm… let’s look at that quote a bit more fully, shall we?
Sounds to me like it was pretty accurate. The West is “decadent” in a lot of ways, especially to the religious of any bent, and a “brilliant but paranoid” Islamist could easily spin that as part of some grand screed against us. Hell, if you pay any attention to what the Islamists say, it’s a very common occurrence.
Overall, what Colson said is a bit out there, but nowhere near as “out there” as the words of someone like Jeremiah Wright. And Colson has done a tremendous amount of good since his conversion — which took place BEFORE he went to prison, and was a large part of the reason he went to prison.
J.
For a minute there I thought the Jays were talking about Bill Ayers, but I realize that would take some intellectual consistency that they never have.
EL, some of the differences between Colson and Ayers:
1) Colson fully admitted his crimes and served his sentence.
2) Colson has never denied what he did, and the wrongness of it.
3) Colson is ashamed of his past, not proud of it.
4) Nobody died from Watergate.
Other than that, yeah, they’re practically brothers.
J.
Ed,
Do me a favor –
Scroll back up to your comment.
Then scroll up two more comments
Read the portion that Oliver chose to put in boldface type.
You can probably guess what I’d tell you to do next, right?
he has, truly, redeemed himself of his crimes.
By preaching to a captive audience? Oh yeah, a real saint.
Man, the little Jays’ obsession with Kennedy and Byrd continues to be hilarious.
Hm. Never heard of this guy before now. People are complicated, I suppose, and few people we venerate in history were saints. I don’t really see a problem with him getting an award for the good things he has done, so long as he hasn’t killed or seriously hurt anybody. Then again, I think Pete Rose ought to be in the hall of fame, so…
Would Jay Tea and Wankee Jay or any other sub-intelligent, crypto-fascist double-dildo, double-wetsuited fat sack of shit care to tell which of their “liberal” examples were ever given a Presidential Citizen Medal?
Thank you. You may now shut your flan-holes.
Nobody hated Nixon more than me. Nobody thought that the acts of Colson, Haldeman, Ehrlichman, et al, were more despicable than I did.
I laugh at so-called “born-again Christians.” I think they are ALL lying, if only to themselves.
That said, being nice to folks in prison is a rare and good thing, and should be commended. So I have no problem with Colson getting this award. I find it a hell of a lot less objectionable than Tenet getting the Medal of Freedom.
Jay Tea politely points out facts and the ad hominem attacks begin. JT, my hat is off to your patience with the ankle-biters.
The West is “decadent” in a lot of ways, especially to the religious of any bent, and a “brilliant but paranoid” Islamist could easily spin that as part of some grand screed against us.
But Jay Tea, Colson is arguing that the Islamists have a point! He thinks we should base domestic policy decisions on how it will be perceived by terrorists. You do understand this don’t you?
Colson did some vile things in his life, right up until he had his literal “come to Jesus” moment.”
Hey, Jay Tea, did you finally look this word up? Good for you.
No, fafaroo, there is a difference between EXPLAINING the rationale of a nutjob and ENDORSING it. Exploring “why they hate us” is not necessarily about blaming the victim; sometimes it’s to get inside the pathology of the attacker to figure out what they might do next. It’s part of the reason the publication of the Unabomber manifesto was so useful; it led to his capture. It’s why cops use profilers and the like.
And yes, we should take the potential responses of crazies into account when we set policy. Not necessarily to cater to their craziness, but to brace ourselves to their response.
You want an example? Newsweek’s bullshit story about the Koran flushed down the toilet at Guantanamo. Newsweek shoulda said “you know, this is gonna cause riots around the world if we publish it. Maybe we ought to make certain of the facts before running it.” If they had, maybe one person would have had a lick of common sense and said “how the hell are you going to get a book down a toilet? It won’t fit!” and some people who died might not have.
In the case of the Islamist crazies, look at some of the things that drive them the most bonkers and keep that in mind. The Mumbai terrorists went out of the way to find the one tiny little Jewish center in the whole Indian city so they could torture and kill Jews. Another crazed Islamist shot up a Jewish center in the Pacific Northwest. What does that tell you? If you get a report of terrorism, send some forces to the Jewish centers and you’ll have a good chance of catching the terrorists.
Here’s a better one: in 1993, Al Qaeda tried to take down the World Trade Centers. In 2000, they struck at the USS Cole, a warship. Then on 2001, they attacked the towers a second time and hit the Pentagon.
Simply saying “they’re nuts” is not enough. You have to grasp the elements of their insanity if you’re going to be prepared for their attacks.
Back to the subject at hand… before he went to prison, Colson had a life-changing experience. He CHOSE to go to prison as part of his atonement for his past sins and crimes, and has spent the rest of his life trying to finish that atonement. He long ago paid his debt to society, and he’s continued his good works. He doesn’t seem to want a pardon (although he did petition for his right to vote back), so this kind of recognition is entirely appropriate.
J.
No, fafaroo, there is a difference between EXPLAINING the rationale of a nutjob and ENDORSING it.
There’s also a pretty big difference between being correct and one hundred percent wrong. Jay Tea, meet Chuck Colson:
http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/october/18.152.html
And the rousing conclusion from that article:
What Colson is essentially saying here is that if all Americans don’t start doing what Christians like him are calling for, then the Islamists will win because its our decadence that fuels their hatred. He is, in short, asking us to do what the terrorists want.
Link: http://agonyin8fits.blogspot.com/2008/12/flotsam-jetsam.html
Ed and Fafaroo, do either of you feel that Colson’s comments somehow negate the work he’s done in prisons, such that he shouldn’t be eligible for awards? Or is it just awards of a certain caliber?
There’s a case to make there, I guess. The President represents all Americans, and to award somebody that makes fairly loathsome comments about vast sectors of Americans perhaps ought not be receiving an award from the representative of all the people. I don’t necessarily agree with that, but I can see the point.
Classic case of IOKIYAD.
Somehow this guy is a terror who should be shunned among polite society, much less be recognized by the President. But when it’s George McGovern, Jesse “Hymie-town” Jackson, or William Fullbright receiving the same award, there’s narry a lick of outrage from the left.
Typical.
I find it a hell of a lot less objectionable than Tenet getting the Medal of Freedom.
Yeah, there’s always that.
If William Ayers taught us anything its that there can be no redemption in partisan politics.
Tell me why I should be outraged by George McGovern?
Then tell me why Carlson hates America.
What the hell has McGovern ever done to deserve condemnation from anybody?
Just curious; what is the stature of limitations on outrage? How long am I supposed to be upset about what Sen. Byrd did almost 3/4s of a century ago?
Midder, there can be redemption… but there has to be repentance first. Colson repented. Ayers never has. Indeed, he’s still proud of what he did.
J.
Byrd feels remorse. Kennedy feels remorse.
I’ll bet even George McGovern feels remorse.
I cn haz redemption naow? kthxbye.
Midder, there can be redemption… but there has to be repentance first.”
Which means there’s still hope for your dumb, wrong ass, Jay Tea.
Jay Tea obviously has no problem with an America-basher receiving such a prestigious award as long he/she is a CONSERVATIVE America-basher.
Also, as awful as his behavior was, Bill Ayers never killed anybody despite Jay Tea’s implying that he did (”Nobody dies from Watergate”).
Rotter, I’ll say it explicitly: the Weather Underground killed people. Three of them were, thank heavens, their own members when a nail bomb (that a bomb loaded with nails to maximize death and maiming) they were preparing for an enlisted men’s dance for the troops at Fort Dix went off prematurely. Also, in 1981, members of the WU were involved in the Brinks armored car robbery that left two police and a Brinks guard dead.
They also tried to blow up the home of New York State Supreme Court Justice Murtaugh with three gasoline firebombs, while Murtaugh, his wife, and their children slept.
Duros, we know that Colson is repentant because he says so, and he has lived his life to show that. Could you cite examples of Kennedy and Byrd showing actual, sincere, deep remorse (and not mere “regret”) and taking actions to attempt to redeem their actions? Hell, Byrd still tosses around the “n-word” on occasion.
I don’t worry about Ayers getting any kind of award from Obama, though. If there’s one thing Obama has shown, it is that he has no problems tossing former associates aside when they prove embarrassing.
J.
“…the Weather Underground killed people”.
But Ayers specifically didn’t. You’re “Nobody died at Watergate” line was designed to show the difference between Colson and Ayers, not Colson and the Weather Undergound in general.
“their own members when a nail bomb…”
These scumbags were not acting at the direction of Ayers.
“Also, in 1981, members of the WU were involved in the Brinks armored car robbery…”
Wrong. They were FORMER members of the WU at the time of this incident.
“They also tried to blow up the home of New York State Supreme Cout Justice Murtaugh…”
Never proven that the WU was responsible for this, and even if they were, no one was killed (again negating, but in a different way this time, the “Nobody died at Watergate” line).
If there’s one thing Obama has shown, it is that he has no problems tossing former associates aside when they prove embarrassing.
…written by someone who is clearly beyond embarrassment.
“He is, in short, asking us to do what the terrorists want.”
Absolutely. Colson is an appeaser…but he’s a CONSERVATIVE appeaser, so that’s okay with Jay Tea.
No, fafaroo, there is a difference between EXPLAINING the rationale of a nutjob and ENDORSING it. Exploring “why they hate us” is not necessarily about blaming the victim; sometimes it’s to get inside the pathology of the attacker to figure out what they might do next. It’s part of the reason the publication of the Unabomber manifesto was so useful; it led to his capture. It’s why cops use profilers and the like.
Funny, you didn’t seem to think this 7 years ago. So what happened? Oh, that’s right, you got people killed for no good reason.
I’m not going to get too worked up over this award. Bush gave it to Gary Sinise too. Can you imagine that conversation?
“It’s a great honor, Mr President.”
“Well, you gave so much to this country, losin’ a leg in Nam and what not.”
“Uh, I didn’t fight in Vietnam, sir.”
“Oh stop – I saw it on the teevee lootenant Dan. Say, why’s everyone callin’ you Gary?”
“Gary’s my name.”
“Ya know, when I got to the White House, I musta had me about 20 Dr Peppers too. That made me laugh! Hehehehe”
“That was a funny scene…”
“Say – do you still own that fruit company?”
“I never actually owned Apple.”
“Hehehehehe. I gotta pee. Hehehehe.”
“It’s a great honor sir. Thank you.”