Leave Sasha and Malia Obama alone.
That is all.
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Indeed. But good luck with that. If you’ve forgotten, Rush Limbaugh is an asshole.
He will attack the kids, this I am sure of. I think the only good that could come from this is if he goes too far and it costs him his job.
Let’s hope they are treated with the same deference and respect for their privacy as the Bush twins have been.
J.
Examples, Jay Tea? Thanks in advance. Anything worse than massive radio presence and Republican icon Rush Limbaugh’s family dog joke? No? Well, OK then.
Adding, Rush Limbaugh is still a big fat idiot.
The Bush Twins are adults.
Let’s hope they are treated with the same deference and respect for their privacy as the Bush twins have been.
Um, the Bush twins got deference and respect for their privacy when they were minors, like Malia and Sasha. Once Malia and Sasha start getting arrested for using fake IDs, I’m not going to be outraged if they’re getting criticized. An arrest is public record.
Jay Tea: “Let’s hope they are treated with the same deference and respect for their privacy as the Bush twins have been.”
Shut the fuck up, Jay Tea. The Bush Twins broke the law. They were practically thrown out of a country. And all that happened to them was they were the butt of a few jokes as a result. Chelsea was called a dog by Rush. If you can’t see the difference, you don’t deserved to be treated like a human being.
As far as I’m concerned, adult status is largely irrelevant. Unless and until they decide — on their own — to act as public figures, the children of politicians ought to be left the hell alone.
Personally, I never said one bad word about Chelsea Clinton until she started campaigning for her mother. I still stand by that decision.
But by the “arrest records” are the new standard, I’m curious to see how Al Gore III’s arrest for driving a Prius at over 100MPH while drunk and stoned was handled by some of the above parties…
J.
Personally, I never said one bad word about Chelsea Clinton until she started campaigning for her mother. I still stand by that decision.
Jay Tea – Good for you. OW’s message wasn’t to you, it was to Rush and his ilk, who are just one cranky day away from going after Sasha and Malia.
Keep talking Dumbaugh, keep talking. You and your friends have already helped lose the election, destroy your party and now you have a real opportunity to completely and totally become the irrelevant person you should have been from the outset.
Can this stuff get out to the public in a big way? Could affect his job with the unclear network, if enough people complain. Or is this just a pipe dream?
There’s nothing the Clear Channelites won’t stoop to in order to please their Michael Douglas in Falling Down fanboys
JT, I happen to agree with you that the Bush twins should have been left alone. But surely you can agree that it’s more heinous to go after an 11 year old who has done nothing than a 19 year old who has been arrested. Can’t you? Do you or do you not see a relevant difference there?
But by the “arrest records” are the new standard, I’m curious to see how Al Gore III’s arrest for driving a Prius at over 100MPH while drunk and stoned was handled by some of the above parties…
Personally, I criticized him, and the incident got lots of media coverage. Again, an adult who commits a crime is open to criticism unless one believes the law itself is unjust. (E.g. if the Bush twins had been getting arrested for providing medical marijuana to cancer patients, I would have praised rather than criticized.) I hadn’t noticed Republicans campaigning to change the drinking age to 18 or to decriminalize the use of fake identification (indeed, with the fury toward undocumented workers, my understanding was that y’all were ramping up penalties).
Heard Limbaugh briefly on Friday. As he spoke with disdain about the Obamas, he hissed like a snake.
“As far as I’m concerned…”
As far as you’re concerned? Your concerns don’t matter, because you don’t matter.
You want to compare what happened to Chelsea Clinton and the Bush Twin? Go ahead and give us concrete examples. Otherwise shut the fuck up.
Parthenon, I kept a grudge against Limbaugh for a long, LONG time over his treatment of Chelsea Clinton. I think I held it about a decade longer than the Clintons, and only let it go when he did something incredibly decent and compassionate — and didn’t talk about it at all. The only reason it came out was that the person he reached out to DID speak about it.
Ed Morrissey, now of Hot Air and then of Captain’s Quarters, underwent back surgery and was worried about the painkillers he was given. Limbaugh called Morrissey and spoke very openly with him about his own bouts with painkillers, making himself very available to Ed. And he was also very, VERY reluctant to grant Ed permission to mention the calls.
The Bush twins (who now are apparently living very decent lives — one went to Central America to teach, the other to Africa to work in a hospital) never did anything that would have been national news if they were not the daughters of the president. They have shown no interest in politics, as far as I know, and good for them.
I wrote a piece today over at Wizbang about the upcoming Obama family dog. In a nutshell, I said give them the dog they want and let it be their dog, not a political prop for their father. (Remember Buddy?) And I would be thrilled if we heard almost nothing about the Obama girls for the next few years.
Of course, this could be difficult. In July, President Elect Obama declared that his family would not be political fodder any more.
A couple of weeks later, the entire family posed for a cover story in People.
J.
“Leave Sasha and Malia Obama alone.”
Sorry… Your side should have thought about that before they went afer the Palin kids. As far as I’m concerned, all of the Obama’s are fair game.
Sorry… Your side should have thought about that before they went afer the Palin kids. As far as I’m concerned, all of the Obama’s are fair game.
Stay classy, william. By the way, did you bring a single example with you this time?
Parthenon, I kept a grudge against Limbaugh for a long, LONG time over his treatment of Chelsea Clinton.
I’d be more impressed if you would include a link to your website to help prove you held such a grudge.
And he was also very, VERY reluctant to grant Ed permission to mention the calls.
Right. I can imagine how the conversation went:
I call bullshit. This is Rush Limbaugh we’re talking about.
I wrote a piece today over at Wizbang about the upcoming Obama family dog.
Alert the Pulitzer Committee!!
William,
The Obama girls haven’t gotten themselves pregnant out of wedlock like Bristol Palin did.
The furor over Bristol the Slut was mainly over GOP hypocrisy: after years of railing against bastardy and single-parenthood (see: Murphy Brown), the wingnuts flip-flopped frantically when one of their own got “in trouble.” Double standards, you fool.
OW: your lead should have finished with, “…or we will fuck you up!”
I think the only good that could come from this is if he goes too far and it costs him his job.
If Michael Savage is any indication, there is no “too far.”
As far as I’m concerned, all of the Obama’s are fair game.
Yeah, but that’s because you’re a dick.
Also, Trig was Bristol’s too. Admit it, Wingnuts, it’s true. Pathetic.
ed, please don’t keep going with that silly story about Trig. It’s pathetic and just demonstrates how little the people pushing it know about human biology.
And he was also very, VERY reluctant to grant Ed permission to mention the calls.
Well, yeah, I wouldn’t want people to be reminded that I broke the law to feed my addiction to painkillers either. It’s nice that Limbaugh reached out to a fellow conservative in the media, but I’m frankly unclear on what kind of reassurance of “don’t worry about using painkillers” one would get from a guy who got addicted to painkillers. It’d be like having Hillary Clinton call Elizabeth Edwards to reassure her that surely it was just a one-time infidelity.
I’d like to see the day when all politician’s children are off limits until they become adults and can decide for themselves if they want to be in the public eye.
But then, I’d like to return to a time when civil discourse was the norm rather than the exception.
Incidentally, does that story about Limbaugh mean that conservatives will stop giving Ted Kennedy a hard time, since he reached out to Bob Novak — someone who isn’t on Kennedy’s side, and has been very critical of him — when Novak found out about his brain tumor? Or are one’s sins forgiven for an act of kindness only when one is a Republican?
ed, please don’t keep going with that silly story about Trig.
Oh come on, it’s a little cute!
ed, the apology will be accepted at any time:
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2006/06/20/giving-credit-where-credit-is.php
And I am kicking myself for not mentioning the Palin children. Where was Oliver’s outrage over the treatment Bristol and Trig Palin got? Andrew Sullivan, that deranged asshole, is STILL beating the drum demanding that Sarah Palin “prove” that she is Trig’s biological mother.
And how many times did we hear about Dick Cheney’s daughter being a LESBIAN!!!1!!!11!
No, I sincerely hope that the Obama girls stay out of the public limelight as much as possible, and get to live as normal lives as possible.
Until, that is, their parents decide that Daddy could really use the boost generated by another cover feature in People Magazine…
J.
ed, the apology will be accepted at any time:
Excellent! Will comply on August 2, 2027.
And how many times did we hear about Dick Cheney’s daughter being a LESBIAN!!!1!!!11!
Certainly none from the modern Republican party. They don’t believe in LESBIANS. Just Jesus. The Jesus who viciously hates queers. That Jesus.
I guess Jay Tea has decided that while Limbaugh is redeemed for providing comfort to a fellow conservative, Kennedy is not redeemed for doing the same across the aisle.
And Jay, your link doesn’t have any links to where you actually criticized Limbaugh prior to his help to Morrissey; you merely state as fact “I’ve stated several times my dislike for Rush Limbaugh” without giving evidence. Your only link in the link you provided is to a post where you attack Patrick Kennedy as inferior to Limbaugh.
Incidentally, Patrick Kennedy (born in July 1967, and thus not quite 39 when you wrote your May 2006 post) is old enough to be a grandfather only in a social realm where people have children at the age of 19. The oh-so-irresponsible Kennedy, when asked if he expected any special treatment from authorities, Kennedy expressed that he hoped they would treat him as if he “were an African-American in Anacostia.” In contrast, Limbaugh’s attorney said, “Rush Limbaugh was singled out for prosecution because of who he is. We believe the state attorney’s office is applying a double standard.”
Sorry, J, I forgot to thank you for the link. I’ll get around to clicking on that never. But thanks anyway for digging it up.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to pray. To Jesus. You know which one.
And how many times did we hear about Dick Cheney’s daughter being a LESBIAN!!!1!!!11!
Twice, that I can recall, but nobody said it quite like that.
Dick Cheney’s lesbian daughter was working for his campaign and serving as the Coors gay outreach liaison – all the while the Bush administration (the one she campaigned to help get elected) was working to deny all gays and lesbians equal rights.
Yeah sure – writing about that is JUST like attacking grammar school kids ..
… in some universe, somewhere.
ed, please don’t keep going with that silly story about Trig.
And by the way, I’m with Sully on this one. Medical records, like every other candidate for P or VP, please. I think that baby was Bristol’s. I just do. Sue me.
limbaugh’s words and belly shaking were a boost to the Dems in 2006 when he helped McCaskill win a close senate race in Missouri. He will likely pull another act of stupidity before the inauguration — can’t help himself.
limbaugh’s words and belly shaking were a boost to the Dems in 2006 when he helped McCaskill win a close senate race in Missouri
What an awful person Rush Limbaugh is.
ed,
Palin did issue the same “medical records” as Obama — a letter from her doctor. They’re both healthy people in their 40s with no prior history of significant medical problems. (Contrast with McCain’s cancer, Biden’s clots.) And while I can’t sue you for thinking Trig was Bristol’s, I can shake my head at the stubborn ignorance of reproductive science, just as I do with Republicans.
PG:
If Palin’s taught us anything, it’s that she’s a congenital liar. With so much circumstantial evidence, after so much lying, the burden of proof is on Teh ‘Cuda as far as I’m concerned. Take the quotes off “medical records,” and perhaps I’ll come around.
And he was also very, VERY reluctant to grant Ed permission to mention the calls.”
Please just shoot me.
As for this:
Personally, I never said one bad word about Chelsea Clinton until she started campaigning for her mother. I still stand by that decision.
Just shoot me and throw me in a ditch.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Jay Tea, you are the biggest horse’s ass on the internet.
I wonder if they’ll got to Sidwell Friends like Chelsea did (my alma mater).
Just a quick question: could just ONE PERSON who thinks that the Obama children are off the table kindly reconcile that position with those here so eager to go after Bristol Palin (who is also under 18)? I’m willing to call Randy Brown and ed as major assholes for their using the Palin children as weapons against their mother — will I be alone?
PG, I was born the same year as Patrick Kennedy and my best friend (one year older) has a step-grandchild who’s two years old. And he’s no exception. “Old enough to be a grandfather” was simple rhetoric to show that he’s certainly old enough to know better — but apparently doesn’t.
J.
“Also, Trig was Bristol’s too. Admit it, Wingnuts, it’s true. Pathetic.”
I’m thinking that’s why she refused to release her medical records.
“Just a quick question: could just ONE PERSON who thinks that the Obama children are off the table kindly reconcile that position with those here so eager to go after Bristol Palin (who is also under 18)?”
Because Sarah Palin ran under a banner of ‘family values’ that includes no abortions, abstinence only sex education, etc.
“And how many times did we hear about Dick Cheney’s daughter being a LESBIAN!!!1!!!11!”
I first heard about Dick Cheney’s daughter being a lesbian from Dick Cheney.
And according to your logical, since she was working for his campaign, she’s fair game.
Fucking hypocrite.
If god forbid Palin had won, would at any point she have had to make her medical records available?
Because it was genuinely strange that she wouldn’t just release them.
As for Sasha and Malia, as others have said, if they drive 100 MPH and get busted, fine — go after them. But for now they’re young girls who are more interested in a new dog and Barbies (I assume).
And yes, the slime-merchants that constitute the last throes of the Republican Party. Not much decent people can do about it other than point fingers at Limbaugh, Hannity, etc., and remind them that their listeners/viewers are constituting an ever-dwindling percentage of Americans who are trying to rebuild this great country and take it int the future.
There will always be dead-enders like Jay around. Just like there will always be a KKK chapter in states like Virginia and North Carolina. They just simply don’t matter any longer. I’d suggest ignoring them.
Hey, Jaim:
FUCK YOU.
I’ve actually met white supremacists face-to-face. I am sickened and outraged at what they do, ESPECIALLY since they claim to be doing it on my behalf. I am a white male of European ancestry, mainly northern and western, and I hold a special hatred for them precisely BECAUSE they claim to be acting on my behalf and in my interests. I hate them MORE than I do people like William Ayers and Ted Kaczynski, precisely because they try to “represent” me.
They don’t. They never have. They never will. And I will remain an implacable opponent to them until my dying breath.
So don’t even THINK of lumping me in with them. I don’t take that from them, and I won’t take that from you.
J.
JT: Just a quick question: could just ONE PERSON who thinks that the Obama children are off the table kindly reconcile that position with those here so eager to go after Bristol Palin (who is also under 18)? I’m willing to call Randy Brown and ed as major assholes for their using the Palin children as weapons against their mother — will I be alone?
Can anyone reconcile the irresistible force with the immovable object? No. Those who think the Obama kids are off limits but the Palin kids are not are using a double standard.
But I don’t think that’s what is being done. The criticisms are leveled at Momma Palin and her hypocrisy and character. Yes, Bristol gets tangentially pulled into it. But I haven’t seen anyone saying “She should be ashamed for what she did” while I have seen many along the lines of “Sarah Palin can’t make her abstinence policies work at home so why should anyone expect they would work in the larger world?”
Imagine Obama said children should not be bribed to get good grades, and then it comes out that he does just that. Is that a story that should not be told? His daughters would be unavoidably mentioned in the story , but it would still be a story about HIM and his hypocrisy.
“So don’t even THINK of lumping me in with them. I don’t take that from them, and I won’t take that from you.”
As long as you vote Republican, and the Republicans continue to use the Southern Strategy, you will be connected to the KKK whether you like it or not.
So, Sean, by your reasoning, we ought to watch the Obama girls very, very carefully to make certain that they don’t do anything that would conflict with their parents’ public stances and positions? And if they do, then we should not condemn them, but simply use them to expose their parents’ failings?
I think not.
When Bristol Palin’s pregnancy suddenly became national news, the only people who wanted obsessively to talk about it were those who were eager to tear down Sarah Palin. Most everyone else simply said it was a private family matter, and they were encouraged that the family was apparently dealing with the situation in a mature, responsible, and accepting fashion. Especially some very devout born-again Christians of my personal acquaintance.
It was only assholes like Randy Brown who ranted about “Bristol the slut.”
I agree wholeheartedly with Oliver that Obama’s daughters should be left alone. I only wish he’d come to that same position earlier, when he was reveling in the slamming of the Bush twins and the Palin children.
Hell, he openly advocated drafting the Bush twins and sending them to Iraq — and, when I challenged him, agreed that Chelsea Clinton should have been drafted and sent to the Balkans to serve in her father’s conflict.
That was wrong, what was done to the Palin children was wrong, and if anything like that is done to the Obama children, it will be just as wrong.
I shouldn’t be surprised. One of the accepted antonyms for “consistency” is “Change,” after all.
J.
Gee, Strowbridge, and here I thought that “guilt by association” was no more, in the aftermath of Tony Rezko, Jeremiah Wright, William Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, James Johnson, Franklin Raines, Saul Alinsky, and the whole host of people who helped Barack Obama shape his political career.
J.
Curses!
You win this time, Jay Tea…….
But we’ll be back!
This has been another edition of “Right Wingers Impervious To Reason, Inelligence Or Reality Itself.”
I am a white male of European ancestry,
Shocker.
I’m willing to call Randy Brown and ed as major assholes for their using the Palin children as weapons against their mother — will I be alone?
J-Dawg, I’m gonna type this slowly so’s you’re sure to understand it:
I know you are,
But what am I?
No backsies.
In
fin
i
ty
!
Jay writes: “I’ve actually met white supremacists face-to-face.”
This is my surprised face.
Listen up, Jay-bronie: “Denial” is not a river in Africa. However, “Denali” IS a state park in Alaska – and I wish to hell you’d take your sorry ass there, and stay there.
Sally Palin is an unfit mother. Period. Same will apply to Bristol and her redneck husband. White Trash with Money, all of ‘em. Losers, just like yourself.
So if you feel such a great need to protect them from the big bad media, go and work for them! You will not be missed here.
You know something, and this doesn’t happen every day, Jay’s right. Tarring all conservatives as racist is roughly equivalent to ‘tarring’ all liberals as socialist. And kids of politicians – adult or not – ought to be just flat out left the hell alone. Being a very visible member of the campaign staff seems to me a decent standard for when they’re fair game.
NOT whether they’ve been on the cover of people. That’s a terrible standard.
Randy, I’ve seen stupid, but you are pure distilled dumb with the high beams on.
“Sally Palin?” “White Trash with Money?”
The Palins EARNED their money, they didn’t pull a Kennedy and inherit it or a Kerry and marry it. They don’t have a FRACTION of the wealth of the average Democrat in Congress. And SARAH Palin did something Barack Obama has NOT ONCE shown the balls to do — she took on corruption in her own party and TOOK THEM DOWN.
They don’t need my protection. I don’t do this because I feel compelled to defend them. I do it because I feel morally compelled to confront assholes (of all persuasions) and call them on their assholeness.
Oh, and thanks for the support, Parthenon — I know it must have been painful. But the reason I brought up the People cover was that mere weeks after Barack Obama said he didn’t want his family exploited and used for publicity, the whole group of them posed for a cover feature on People. I guess he meant he was tired of his wife and kids getting publicity that he couldn’t control.
As I’ve said all along, pending extraordinary circumstances, Obama’s children should be left alone as much as possible. And that means both from those who want to use them to attack him, and those who want to use them to boost him. They’re kids, goddammit, not props.
J.
I wouldn’t put it past Limbaugh to go after the Malia and Sasha. Of course he will.
I simply hope Obama invites him to the White House for Sunday lunch after he does. A nice discussion about the coarseness of our political discourse with the man who has “talent on loan from God” might go a long way toward mellowing his message.
ed,
If Palin’s taught us anything, it’s that she’s a congenital liar. With so much circumstantial evidence, after so much lying, the burden of proof is on Teh ‘Cuda as far as I’m concerned. Take the quotes off “medical records,” and perhaps I’ll come around.
OK, that’s just dumb. Sorry. At what point has Palin lied about her reproductive history? The burden of proof for a claim that flies in the face of science always is on the person who is going against the statistical probability.
A freshly-written letter from your doctor doesn’t qualify as much of a “medical record.” I’m younger than Palin and Obama, but I have actual medical records that I could turn over: immunizations, dental records, the assessment of my vision before and after surgery, the trend in my cholesterol levels (which always have been high) since age 11. Again, McCain and Biden released real records; Obama and Palin didn’t. Because Obama and Palin are young people with no known history of significant medical issues, I think the letters suffice, but it’s bullshit to hold Palin to a higher standard there.
As for Jay Tea’s remarks on white supremacists:
I hate them MORE than I do people like William Ayers and Ted Kaczynski, precisely because they try to “represent” me.
Anyone want to run a comparison of how many times Jay Tea has posted in protest against actions by white supremacists still being done today, versus how many times he’s posted about stuff Ayers did 30 years ago?
PG, that’s a pointless comparison. I tend to write reactively, to developments and news stories and events. Ayers has been far, far more prominent than any Neo-Nazis have been.
If you wanna compare vitriol levels, though, then I’ll gladly stand by that. I’ve been far, far more hostile to the Nazis than Ayers.
J.
“Gee, Strowbridge, and here I thought…”
No you did think, and that’s the problem. You don’t think, you just reach for the nearest talking point.
Unless you can show those people had a direct effect on Obama, there is no association.
On the other hand, the Republicans are courting the KKK and other racists through the Southern Strategy. And by voting for them, you are directly supporting them.
“PG, that’s a pointless comparison. I tend to write reactively, to developments and news stories and events. Ayers has been far, far more prominent than any Neo-Nazis have been.”
What has Ayers done recently that is politically noteworthy?
As I’ve said all along, pending extraordinary circumstances, Obama’s children should be left alone as much as possible. And that means both from those who want to use them to attack him, and those who want to use them to boost him. They’re kids, goddammit, not props.
Jay Tea, does the purchase of a family dog constitute extraordinary circumstances?:
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/11/08/a-dogs-breakfast.php
In the above post you write this:
So you come here and proclaim that Obama’s children are not “props” while back your own blog your arguing that Obama’s choice of dog will reveal how he really feels about his children and that you know what’s best for Sasha and Malia.
Jesus. Where to even start? Could you please just STFU and go away?
Ayers’ actions weren’t the recent developments.
The slow, constantly-evolving story of his years and years of associations with Obama were the recent developments.
First, he was “some guy in my neighborhood.”
Then, he was “some guy I served on a board with.”
Then it was “some guy who hired me to run this board.”
Then it was “some guy who hired me for one board, and served with me on another.”
Then it was “the guy who hosted the party where I made my political ‘coming-out.’”
Then the revelations of just how much money Obama oversaw went to Ayers’ cronies from the CAC, and how little actual “improvement” in the schools they were working with there was…
With Ayers, Obama actually pulled off the “modified limited hang-out” routine and made the “previous statements are no longer operative” stunt work. Nixon would be proud.
With Ayers, the constant re-definitions of his relationship with Obama were the new developments. (Well, that and Ayers dedicating his Weather Underground book to Sirhan Sirhan, among others.) With Neo-Nazis, they really haven’t gotten too much attention in a while. I think the last one was probably the 18-year-old Masshole Neo-Nazi who shot up a gay bar, then fled halfway across the country before getting doing everyone a favor and blowing his brains out in Arkansas. Unfortunately, the asshole killed two (including a cop) and wounded three more before he did the world that favor.
J.
fafaroo, that was in RESPONSE to the stupid-ass arguments about the dog. In a nutshell, what I said was “everyone should just shut up about the dog and the kids and let the Obamas do what they think is best for the kids.”
Personally, I don’t give a rat’s ass if they get a dog or don’t. Obama announced it in his victory speech and idiots started speculating wildly, and I got sick of hearing about it.
I’m more interested in hearing about Obama’s appointments — will all the left-wing nuts who raved about the “neocons and Likudniks” in Bush’s administration throw the same charges at Rahm Emanuel, who holds dual citizenship with Israel and volunteered for service in the IDF during the first Gulf War? Will Obama be nuts enough to even THINK of putting Robert F. Kennedy Jr. as head of the EPA or Secretary of the Interior? Why in god’s name is John Kerry — JOHN KERRY! — being talked about as a possible Secretary of State?
Hmm… there’s enough about Emanuel for a full posting. I might have to look into that one…
J.
In a nutshell, what I said was “everyone should just shut up about the dog and the kids and let the Obamas do what they think is best for the kids.”
Jay Tea, I think anyone who reads that post will see the above statement for what it is.
No where in that post did you say that people should just shut up and let the Obama’s make this decisions in private.
You didn’t just say that the Obama’s should do what is best for their kids.
You actually said what you thought the Obama’s ought to do, as if you knew what was best for their children. Hell, you even offered a diagnosis of one of their allergy conditions as if you knew something about their medical conditions. What kind of an asshole does that?
You’re a fucking hack, Jay Tea. A complete hack.
I’m willing to call Randy Brown and ed as major assholes for their using the Palin children as weapons against their mother — will I be alone?
And why does this make me an asshole? I just happen to believe that The Trigmeister is Bristol’s. That’s it, that’s all. Lots of people believe in lots of things. I also believe in the Aquatic Ape Theory. Is that so wrong?
Whoa, PG, I just now clicked on the “human biology” link you posted (way) above. That doesn’t disprove ANYTHING.
Yeah, the first thing I thought (and posted here) was that it wasn’t very probable, considering Bristol’s youth. But the inexplicable hours-long flight back to Alaska while in labor, plus the “gag order” at the local clinics (yeah, yeah, I know, doctor-patient confidentiality and all that, but come on), plus the non-release of the Governor’s medical records……..I smell cover-up.
This kind of denial was common in the US of the 1950s and 1960s. Since so-called “Christian Conservatives” still live in that era, it’s not unreasonable, dumb, or inappropriate to wonder if Palin’s story is true. I had the same kind of stuff happening in my big old whitetrash family back in the day.
Call me a snoop and a busybody, but I’ll bet it’s Bristol’s child.
PG, you’re probably the smartest guy posting here, but you haven’t convinced me that Trig is Palin’s son and not her grandson.
Also the fact that she said NOT WORD ONE to her staff until the seventh month? And nobody could tell???????
I never met a mother who wanted to keep her child who didn’t talk about her pregnancy DAILY with her co-workers and the people she interacted with every day.
Yup, it’s Bristol’s. Sorry, but them’s the facts. Just how it is.
Jay plays the Ayers card long, long after it’s relevancy. Pitiful.
Yippie-ki-yay, sucka. Go back to Jizzwank with the other losers.
Don’t expect Rush, the scumbag that he is to comply….
Jay, I hope you’re taking some sort of heart medication, because Obama isn’t even POTUS yet and you’re freaking the fuck out.
And I’m laughing my ass off every time you post more of your ridiculous gibberish.
Please continue to dance for me. But pace yourself, okay? I’d hate to think what life would be like without my favorite token wingnut.
Then it was “some guy who hired me to run this board.”
Jay Tea, please offer proof that Ayers hired Obama to run this board. In particular, please specify that you are calling Ms. Deborah Leff and Ms. Patricia Graham liars, because they have said that Leff originated the idea of bringing on Obama, and that Ms. Graham met with him and extended the invitation for him to be chairman. Please also specify how Ayers had the authority to “hire” board members.
Then the revelations of just how much money Obama oversaw went to Ayers’ cronies from the CAC, and how little actual “improvement” in the schools they were working with there was…
The lack of a differential in improvement in standardized test scores for CAC schools relative to non-CAC schools (i.e., the fact that scores didn’t go up more at CAC school than non) was only a “revelation” to people like Jay Tea and much of the rightwing blogosphere. People who actually give a shit about Chicago kids’ education read the Ed Department report on the CAC that was published in 2003, when Obama was preparing his run for the Senate.
But the inexplicable hours-long flight back to Alaska while in labor, plus the “gag order” at the local clinics (yeah, yeah, I know, doctor-patient confidentiality and all that, but come on), plus the non-release of the Governor’s medical records……..I smell cover-up. … Also the fact that she said NOT WORD ONE to her staff until the seventh month? And nobody could tell??????? I never met a mother who wanted to keep her child who didn’t talk about her pregnancy DAILY with her co-workers and the people she interacted with every day.
Um, I guess you’ve never met a mother who was conflicted about her pregnancy. Palin (whether deliberately or accidentally) got pregnant at 43, an age at which the likelihood of a variety of birth defects goes up exponentially compared even to 37, when she had Piper. I am not criticizing her when I say that she had legitimate reasons not to want to expose herself to potential criticism or advice to terminate the pregnancy.
In my opinion the scientific statistical differential between a woman Palin’s age having a Down’s baby, and a girl Bristol’s age doing so, is much larger than the probability that Palin, rather than being unwilling to tell people about a late-in-life baby with Down’s and being reckless enough with her and her baby’s health to get on a plane while leaking amniotic fluid, actually went through a lengthy charade and cover-up of the baby’s true origins. One can see photos of Palin from the time of her pregnancy where she’s wearing bulky clothes to disguise it. (See, e.g., the Vogue article where Palin wears clothes that obscure her body as much as possible; contrast with the clothes you see her wearing in pretty much every post-pregnancy pic.) Are there photos of Bristol from the same time where she’s got a big belly?
And more importantly, how the hell is it possible for Bristol to be due for her current pregnancy in December (which would require her to have gotten knocked up by the end of March) and have Trig on April 18? Does she have some kind of miracle uterus that can gestate a near-term fetus simultaneously with an embryo? Seriously, someone needs to walk me through how this works out plausibly, just like the people who were screaming about voter fraud from ACORN need to walk through an explanation of how they’ve thought it through beyond:
1. Register Mickey Mouse as a first time voter who under HAVA would need to show ID to vote.
2. ???
3. Steal the election!
I think people should be embarrassed to put forward a theory unless they can explain how it actually would work if true. Simply saying “here’s stuff that ‘raises questions’” doesn’t suffice. Same goes for the fools claiming that Obama was born in Kenya. How and why would this have happened?
Are there photos of Bristol from the same time where she’s got a big belly?
Of course not, silly, she was home from school for six months with “mono.” There are not photos of Bristol from that same time–big belly or no big belly.
Does she have some kind of miracle uterus that can gestate a near-term fetus simultaneously with an embryo?
Apparently.
Admit it dude, life’s much better when Trig is Bristol’s baby. Which he totally is.
PG, that’s a pointless comparison. I tend to write reactively, to developments and news stories and events. Ayers has been far, far more prominent than any Neo-Nazis have been.
It depends on when and where you’re looking.
So, PG, all these assertions about probability are opinion, not fact. So saying “that’s just dumb” or “silly” actually IS in dispute. Maybe the baby is actually due in January, and the claim will be that it’s “late.” Maybe it is due in February and labor will be induced early. That’s no more risky than an hours-long in-labor flight, is it?
In my extended N. FL family, a trick like this was done as recently as 1974. Everybody in the family knew, of course, but still the charade was attempted. Recently here in NC, a murder-suicide was the result of something like this being revealed when the child in question became an adult and learned the truth. This kind of thing has happened many times in so-called “Christian conservative” families.
Is the juicy story likely? I don’t know. By the way, wearing bulky clothes IN ALASKA is, I’ll bet, kinda common.
The burden of proof for a claim that flies in the face of science always is on the person who is going against the statistical probability.
which always makes me wonder why Intelligent Design gets any traction at all.
So, PG, all these assertions about probability are opinion, not fact. So saying “that’s just dumb” or “silly” actually IS in dispute.
Only inasmuch as there is a “dispute” about whether evolution occurred, since none of us were around to watch it happen. The accumulated scientific evidence weighs overwhelmingly in favor of evolution. The accumulated evidence regarding whether Sarah Palin or Bristol Palin was pregnant during the period October 2007 – April 2008 weighs in favor of Gov. Palin’s being pregnant. Your theory that it *could* be Bristol’s baby would require that everyone present in that hospital, including people who saw Gov. Palin walking up and down the corridor in hospital gown and the entire medical team assisting her delivery (as well as that assisting Bristol’s) is lying about what happened. The big difference between your family in 1974 and Sarah Palin in 2008 is that I bet no one really gave a damn whose baby it was in your family, whereas anyone in that hospital who is willing to swear that Gov. Palin was not pregnant that day would be able to collect a ton of money from National Enquirer et al.
Palin wasn’t in labor during her flight. There’s a difference between a leak of amniotic fluid and being in labor. That’s what I find frustrating about discussing this with the “it’s Bristol’s baby” folks — they don’t seem to know much about pregnancy and delivery. It is not a good idea to get on a flight without going to see a doctor first if you are leaking amniotic fluid, but it’s not the same as being in labor.
By the way, wearing bulky clothes IN ALASKA is, I’ll bet, kinda common.
Sigh. As I already said, look at photos of Palin from, say, January 2007 when she was coming into the governor’s office. Even in winter in Alaska, she doesn’t normally pose for photos in bulky clothes; like most women who are in shape and not religiously prohibited from doing so, she wants to show a fit body. This should be even more true when she’s appearing in VOGUE.
Duros 62,
Intelligent design gets traction because:
1) It fits into some people’s ideological preferences;
2) It focuses on a few parts of the scientific record that haven’t yet been fully explained by evolutionary theory to undermine that theory, even though it is supported by the overwhelming bulk of the scientific record;
3) None of us were eyewitnesses to evolution, so we can’t say based on personal knowledge that God didn’t intercede in the process. We only can say, “That seems less plausible than evolution.”
ed,
Admit it dude, life’s much better when Trig is Bristol’s baby. Which he totally is.
No, my elitism drives me to want to be better than Republicans, and one way I indicate that I am better than Republicans is by pointing and laughing at their conspiracy theories (like Obama’s having been born outside the U.S.) while policing the ones that come out of Democrats.
PG, that’s a pointless comparison. I tend to write reactively, to developments and news stories and events. Ayers has been far, far more prominent than any Neo-Nazis have been.
Which is fine, but what has he done that’s been prominent and noteworthy? Ayers hasn’t done anything worth taking notice of since Fugitive Days was published in 2001. White supremacists were conspiring to assassinate Obama just a few weeks ago. Which has been mentioned more on JT’s blog?
I’m hoping for someone to finally pull a
“Have you no decency, sir? At long last, have
you no decency left?” on Limbaugh.
Michael “I’m a Weiner” Savage and Ann “I’m Demented”
Coulter – not so much. We all KNOW they have
no decency left. Or right, or center.
The accumulated evidence regarding whether Sarah Palin or Bristol Palin was pregnant during the period October 2007 – April 2008 weighs in favor of Gov. Palin’s being pregnant.
Huh? What accumulated evidence, besides Sarah’s denials, I mean?
I admit it’s not that likely, but the statistical likelihood of it being true increases with the weird confluence (congruence? conflation?) of the suspicious-looking stuff. The flight, the “mononucleosis”, the non-release of medical records, the fact her staff didn’t know, the fact that their subculture demands chastity of its teens and that they often fail to meet that demand, and just the general hypocrisy and untrustworthiness Palin displayed in the campaign, all lead me to doubt her story.
While it’s admirable of you to take her story at face value, I’m more skeptical. I’ve known too many of these churchlady types to trust their word.
And it would be much more fun if the allegations were true.
I’m not taking it at face value. I’m weighing probabilities, and the likelihood of Down’s Syndrome in a 16-year-old’s baby versus a 44-year-old’s baby requires a lot more to balance it out than Palin’s just not wanting to tell people that she was pregnant. Also, why is Palin’s not telling people for a while somehow adding to the evidence that it was Bristol who was pregnant? Is your hypothesis that they faked Bristol’s having mono but didn’t think through the plan enough to tell people Gov. Palin was pregnant? Again, walk me through a plausible version of this theory instead of just pointing to random facts. And I’m fighting about this because to me, it’s comparable to the “Obama wasn’t born in the U.S.” theory.
“Ayers’ actions weren’t the recent developments.
The slow, constantly-evolving story of his years and years of associations with Obama were the recent developments.”
You are a fucking liar, Jay Tea. A liar or a moron, take your pick.
Your timeline is fucking wrong.
“Is your hypothesis that they faked Bristol’s having mono but didn’t think through the plan enough to tell people Gov. Palin was pregnant?”
Yes.
I think it is entirely possible that the whole family was in denial about this, that Bristol hid it as long as she could, and they cobbled together a story they hoped wouldn’t get much scrutiny. And it might not have, had Sarah Palin had the sense to turn down McCain’s offer. After all, it’s plain that Gov. Palin is not real bright. She could easily be stupid enough to come up with a “plan” like that.
After all, they didn’t “think through” the possibility that she would be asked tough questions by Katie Couric.
PG, I think you assume that other people are as smart as you. We’re not. Most people just go through life hoping others don’t discover how dumb they really are.
Me, I don’t give a shit.
Bruce,
Under your theory of how the Palin family thinks, they could have avoided the whole problem by having Bristol have the baby quietly while at home with “mono” and then put it up for adoption. No abortion necessary, and if they were in denial about Bristol’s having gotten pregnant, why not get rid of the evidence as quickly as possible? Even Down’s babies, so long as they’re white newborns and otherwise healthy, are in demand as adopted kids in America. Keeping an *unwanted* baby around doesn’t make much sense.
Gov. Palin came off as presumptuous about her abilities because she has led a pretty sheltered life, intellectually speaking. Judging by her parents, siblings, spouse, schools and places of residence, she may very well be one of the smartest people she knows simply because she has a good memory and is capable of some degree of abstract analysis when required to make a decision. (I’m not even among the top three smartest people in my immediate family, and was at best average at the college and grad school I attended, which may be why the idea of “not blinking” and feeling certain one is ready to become president of the U.S. kind of blows my mind — I know way too many people who are more capable than I am.)
Palin is not clever, but she is shrewd. For example, when running for mayor of Wasilla, she saw that the area was becoming more socially conservative and abandoning the old frontier libertarianism, and she tuned her campaign to match even though she couldn’t do much about abortion or gun control as mayor. Until she became McCain’s running mate, she probably didn’t encounter many really bright people, so I’m sure the questioning from Couric came as a shock. But I don’t think it indicates that Palin is too dumb to figure out, at the time she’s pulling her daughter out of school, that they had better decide what they’re going to do when this baby appears.
PG,
I’m not really arguing here that Trig is, in fact, Bristol’s child and not Gov. Palin’s. I’m just saying that it’s not necessarily “silly”, “dumb”, or “just like those crazy wingnuts” to think it possible.
Again to use another example from my own whitetrash family: In 1966, my older sister found herself knocked up, and the guy responsible disappeared. My mom told me, my little sister, and all the neighbors that Kathy had been “secretly married” and that the father had gone to Atlanta to find a job. Obviously he never returned, and my nephew was born in my mom’s house, where he lived until Kathy finally married a great guy when my nephew was 8 years old. It was pretty obvious, even at the time, that the “secret marriage” was a lie, but it was the best my mom (who was no dummy) could come up with, in her panic and embarrassment, at short notice.
People do all kinds of irrational things when in the grip of peer pressure.
My mom was at least as smart as Sarah Palin. She just had, at the time, that kind of prudish mentality about sexual matters that made it impossible NOT to lie about it.
Bruce Henry,
So your plausible explanation for how this happened requires that:
- the entire Palin family lie about these events;
- the staff, visitors and patients at the hospital where Trig was born lie about it;
- Palin makes up a lengthy, elaborate story about her fluid leaking but deciding to get on a plane anyway (even though this story doesn’t make her look good at all);
- this story is backed up by her physician;
- no one who saw Bristol during the time Gov. Palin was pregnant is willing to tattle to the media about how Bristol was looking pregnant;
- the Palins and Johnsons are lying about Bristol’s delivery date, because it would be impossible for her current pregnancy to end in December if she’d delivered a baby on April 18 (even if the due date is Dec. 31, the latest she could have conceived was April 13);
- Bristol Palin is the 1 in 2000 chance of a 16-year-old’s having a Down’s baby, rather than Sarah Palin being the 1 in 50 chance of a 44 year old’s having a Down’s baby…
Sorry, nothing that’s been put forward makes this sound much less silly than the “Obama wasn’t born in Hawaii” theorists. How much peer presure could Gov. Palin have been under to pretend that her daughter wasn’t pregnant a year ago, but suddenly she’s willing to reveal that Bristol is currently pregnant and unmarried — moreover, that Bristol won’t be getting married until next summer, after the baby is already born and technically “illegitimate”? None of your theory about how this could work is internally consistent.
It’s 99.99% likely that you are right, of course. I’m just fuckin’ with ya.