Comments on: Proposition 8 & California

By: There’s a Blog in my Soup » Making sense of the California Propositions. Your Complete Primer for the California Propositions!

Tue, 04 Nov 2008 08:18:40 +0000

[...] Proposition 8 & California [...]

By: Parthenon

Parthenon — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:27:47 +0000

And yes, there’s a serious problem with the system, in that if it’s a controversial issue, it’s going to turn out 100% of the people who are zealots about it, and quite a bit less of the people who are sorta lukewarm about it one way or the other.

By: Parthenon

Parthenon — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 23:25:49 +0000

Most Californians I know (most of my family lives there) and most Oregonians I know, for that matter, find the state referendums to be something of a nuisance. The general consensus seems to be people either don’t vote on them because they don’t have the time to read the bible they send along, they begrudgingly read through all the material and make an informed decision, or they sort of wing it with the brief little descriptions they send out.

By: thebewilderness

thebewilderness — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 03:20:04 +0000

I agree that it is odd to permit the amendment of a state constitution by a simple majority, but that is a separate issue from the question of the utility of referendum or proposition.
Sometimes the legislature takes an authoritarian attitude and overrides the good of the people for the good of the legislature.
In WA the people made it very clear that they did not wish a state sales tax to be applied to food. It was considered to be just plain wrong by most citizens of the state.
The people offered a referendum to remove it. The referendum won by a landslide.
A few years later the legislature instituted a state sales tax on food.
Yet another referendum to remove it received a landslide victory.
Shall I tell you about what happened when we voted to have a lottery, the proceeds of which were supposed to go to education? We have widespread gambling now, and the schools are still dependent on special levys. Or the sports stadium that we voted not to use state funds to build. It stands in Seattle.

The people should not have to legislate, but sometimes they do have to, for all the good it does them. It is also true that sometimes it does harm.

By: ed

ed — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 00:07:38 +0000

Shorter SaveFarris: Fags ‘re goin’ down!! (heh-heh)

By: Oliver Willis

Oliver Willis — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:44:14 +0000

We must let our betters decide what issues are important to us.

So lets get rid of the House, Senate, President, Governors, State Houses & Senates. Come on.

By: PG

PG — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 22:30:28 +0000

The U.S. Constitution doesn’t guarantee direct democracy in states. It would be pretty bizarre if it did, since the only part of the federal government that was directly elected by the people was the House of Representatives (President & VP – Electoral College; Senate – state legislatures). The Constitution does guarantee each state a republican form of government (Art. IV, Sec. IV), i.e. one in which laws are made by people who have in some way been chosen by voters.

By: PG

PG — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:39:18 +0000

Phil,

Letting people amend a constitution on a simple majority vote defies the whole purpose of constitutions, which is to bar action based on the easily-roused passions of a majority. Note that the U.S. Constitution has a higher bar for amendment than for a statute, and while hundreds of statutes have been walked back later, only one amendment (Prohibition) has been. If California’s proposition system required a 3/4 vote on a referendum to amend its constitution, I’d have more respect for it, but the current system is silly.

By: SaveFarris's iPhone

SaveFarris's iPhone — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:34:00 +0000

yeah, you gotta hate that whole “democracy” thing.

By: Phil

Phil — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:32:22 +0000

Yeah, Oliver. Because never in the history of Democracy have legislators ignored the will of the populace.

We must let our betters decide what issues are important to us. Like banning squirt guns and making sure we have an official State Mollusk.

Prop 8 is as dumb as they get, but if it is as important as it seems to be among nearly half the citizenry, then why not let the citizens directly address the issue?

Letting people show their bigotry is an American right.

By: MobiusKlein

MobiusKlein — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:31:50 +0000

why? we don’t have a choice.

The status quo is so busted, with 2/3 of voters approving needed to mess with taxes, stopping the initiatives would leave things busted too, and unfixable.

By: xian

xian — Fri, 31 Oct 2008 21:31:03 +0000

Oliver, we hate it, but it’s a legacy of the progressive reforms of the early 20th century and it will take a consitutional amendment to reform it…. First we need redistricting reform, using… uh, the referendum system.