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Proposition 8 & California

October 31st, 2008 12 Comments

Prop. 8 is just the latest stupid proposition up for a vote in California. It is by far the worst system in the country for deciding on important issues. I don’t understand why people in California put up with the proposition system, where the state legislature abdicates its responsibility and millions of dollars on both sides of an issue flood the state. It is ridiculous.

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12 Responses to “Proposition 8 & California”

  1. xian says:
    October 31, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    Oliver, we hate it, but it’s a legacy of the progressive reforms of the early 20th century and it will take a consitutional amendment to reform it…. First we need redistricting reform, using… uh, the referendum system.

  2. MobiusKlein says:
    October 31, 2008 at 4:31 pm

    why? we don’t have a choice.

    The status quo is so busted, with 2/3 of voters approving needed to mess with taxes, stopping the initiatives would leave things busted too, and unfixable.

  3. Phil says:
    October 31, 2008 at 4:32 pm

    Yeah, Oliver. Because never in the history of Democracy have legislators ignored the will of the populace.

    We must let our betters decide what issues are important to us. Like banning squirt guns and making sure we have an official State Mollusk.

    Prop 8 is as dumb as they get, but if it is as important as it seems to be among nearly half the citizenry, then why not let the citizens directly address the issue?

    Letting people show their bigotry is an American right.

  4. SaveFarris's iPhone says:
    October 31, 2008 at 4:34 pm

    yeah, you gotta hate that whole “democracy” thing.

  5. PG says:
    October 31, 2008 at 4:39 pm

    Phil,

    Letting people amend a constitution on a simple majority vote defies the whole purpose of constitutions, which is to bar action based on the easily-roused passions of a majority. Note that the U.S. Constitution has a higher bar for amendment than for a statute, and while hundreds of statutes have been walked back later, only one amendment (Prohibition) has been. If California’s proposition system required a 3/4 vote on a referendum to amend its constitution, I’d have more respect for it, but the current system is silly.

  6. PG says:
    October 31, 2008 at 5:30 pm

    The U.S. Constitution doesn’t guarantee direct democracy in states. It would be pretty bizarre if it did, since the only part of the federal government that was directly elected by the people was the House of Representatives (President & VP – Electoral College; Senate – state legislatures). The Constitution does guarantee each state a republican form of government (Art. IV, Sec. IV), i.e. one in which laws are made by people who have in some way been chosen by voters.

  7. Oliver Willis says:
    October 31, 2008 at 5:44 pm

    We must let our betters decide what issues are important to us.

    So lets get rid of the House, Senate, President, Governors, State Houses & Senates. Come on.

  8. ed says:
    October 31, 2008 at 7:07 pm

    Shorter SaveFarris: Fags ‘re goin’ down!! (heh-heh)

  9. thebewilderness says:
    October 31, 2008 at 10:20 pm

    I agree that it is odd to permit the amendment of a state constitution by a simple majority, but that is a separate issue from the question of the utility of referendum or proposition.
    Sometimes the legislature takes an authoritarian attitude and overrides the good of the people for the good of the legislature.
    In WA the people made it very clear that they did not wish a state sales tax to be applied to food. It was considered to be just plain wrong by most citizens of the state.
    The people offered a referendum to remove it. The referendum won by a landslide.
    A few years later the legislature instituted a state sales tax on food.
    Yet another referendum to remove it received a landslide victory.
    Shall I tell you about what happened when we voted to have a lottery, the proceeds of which were supposed to go to education? We have widespread gambling now, and the schools are still dependent on special levys. Or the sports stadium that we voted not to use state funds to build. It stands in Seattle.

    The people should not have to legislate, but sometimes they do have to, for all the good it does them. It is also true that sometimes it does harm.

  10. Parthenon says:
    November 1, 2008 at 6:25 pm

    Most Californians I know (most of my family lives there) and most Oregonians I know, for that matter, find the state referendums to be something of a nuisance. The general consensus seems to be people either don’t vote on them because they don’t have the time to read the bible they send along, they begrudgingly read through all the material and make an informed decision, or they sort of wing it with the brief little descriptions they send out.

  11. Parthenon says:
    November 1, 2008 at 6:27 pm

    And yes, there’s a serious problem with the system, in that if it’s a controversial issue, it’s going to turn out 100% of the people who are zealots about it, and quite a bit less of the people who are sorta lukewarm about it one way or the other.

  12. There’s a Blog in my Soup » Making sense of the California Propositions. Your Complete Primer for the California Propositions! says:
    November 4, 2008 at 3:18 am

    [...] Proposition 8 & California [...]