Well, now we know why he doesn’t like taxes and social security.
“Joe the plumber,” the Toledo, Ohio, man whose complaints about Barack Obama’s tax plan were featured in the final presidential debate, owes the state of Ohio almost $1,200 in back income taxes.
According to records on file with the Lucas County Court of Common Pleas, the state filed a tax lien against Samuel J. Wurzelbacher for $1,182.98 on Jan. 26, 2007, that is still active.
Wurzelbacher was thrust into the national spotlight this week when he told Obama he worried that the Illinois senator’s proposals to roll back Bush administration tax breaks for Americans earning more than $250,000 would prevent him from buying a plumbing business that would earn between $250,000 and $280,000 a year.
Republicans really haven’t been too good with the vetting this year. First the Sarah Palin Disaster and now this. Egads.
Bircher astroturf
Ha, as a LAWFULLY licensed Architect, I find it humorous that “Joe” is really named “Sam Joseph”, and that he is not a licensed plumber EITHER. WTF ??
I understand the Plumbers Union wasn’t too happy about Joe pretending to be a Plumber either. I don’t know about the legal jeopardy about falsifying being a licensed trade (other than being fined if caught), but people pretending to be an Architect can be charged with a FELONY!
See [my] people, lying contractors, mortgage brokers, lying developers etc., is exactly why you have over valued housing. (If you want to read more about why I KNOW this is true, read shantyworld[dot]com.)
Also, as an architect, I find it ironic that in the middle of this crazy housing crisis, one of the GOP “Stars” is a charlatan tradesman. Except, the reality in HOUSING, is that PEOPLE PRETENDING TO HAVE TRADE CREDENTIALS (masons, electricians, plumbers, etc.) IS an EXTREMELY COMMON occurrence. In fact, it’s one of the leading reasons why so many NEWER middle class homes are so poorly built— because workers with fake credentials are working on projects unlawfully (and the Building Dept., the Banks, and developers look the other way.)
But my primary reason for wanting to comment on DumbAss Joe’s silly comments is the following:
1. Joe, if you were a small business man, you wouldn’t be taxed on the supplies you buy for jobs. Reinstalling products makes you a RESELLER, and you generally have the legal right NOT to have to pay taxes on supplies/items you resell to others. You’d only be taxed on the profits your company makes.
2. Joe, generally there is a TAX ADVANTAGE to being a small business person versus being Joe EMPLOYEE. An EMPLOYEE making $100K will generally NET LESS MONEY after taxes than a small BUSINESS OWNER who grosses $80K. AND THAT is NOT likely to CHANGE UNDER OBAMA.
Bc Joe– dumbass Joe, as a business owner you get to deduct your truck expenses, your tools, your clothes, your insurances, your supplies, etc. And that is why it is more advantageous financially to be the OWNER/BOSS than to be a worker bee (in the USA).
But alas, dumbass Joe, because you so CLEARLY don’t understand NOR follow US Tax Law (as evidenced by your tax scofflaw status), you seem to WRONGLY THINK McCain will help your finances. When the truth is, as a small business person, you are far more likely to do better under Obama’s plan.
Dumbass plumber…
People in the Architecture profession predicted and WARNED against this housing crisis years ago. If you want to learn how I KNOW the American public was duped by Housing Builders, Developers, Realtors & Mortgage brokers, you can read my blog at shantyworld[dot]com.
Guess who’s got her pompons in a twist about people trying to dig up dirt of Joe Plumber?
Democrats on a mission from the Messiah to destroy Joe the Plumber.
Newsflash, guys. It’s not what Joe the Plumber said; it’s what Barack the Socialist said to him.
I’m tired of “Socialist” being a dirty word. We live in a society where we must all help one another. If you don’t like it, move to the mountains.
There’s a reason why the best, brightest, richest, healthiest nations have socialist attributes.
Also, Joe you make 40k a year and aren’t licensed. How you gonna buy shit?
All the plummers associations endorse Obama.
Yeah, but Joe’s maveriky!
If the MSM would spend half as much time investigating Barack Obama as they do Joe the Plumber, conservatives wouldn’t be able to complain about media bias.
But they don’t. So we can. And do.
Also, let this be a lesson to ANYONE who dares speak out about Obama during his presidency. Your dirty laundry will be aired and your character will be assassinated. One mustn’t speak ill of THE ONE.
What really doesn’t make sense: He says he might not buy the business because the tax rate would go up 3% (from 36% to 39%) once he crosses the $250,000 mark. If the business makes $280,000 that 3% difference on the additional $30k is a whopping $900.
So he doesn’t want to increase his income by $30,000 because it means he takes on an additional expense of $900.
Yeah. Joe’s a purty bright fella.
Dissent will not be tolerated by the liberal fascists. No one questions The One.
If the business makes $280,000 that 3% difference on the additional $30k is a whopping $900.
So he doesn’t want to increase his income by $30,000 because it means he takes on an additional expense of $900.
Yeah. Joe’s a purty bright fella.
Sean, your math is off. With $280K at a 36% rate, the tax bill is $100,800. At a 39% rate, the tax bill is $109,200, so he’s looking at a difference of almost $10,000 not $900.
Of course, this tax lien has no bearing on what he thinks about tax rates, but this is par for the course for those who worship at the altar of The One. Can’t say anything negative about him without his Bots and the helping hand media crawling up that person’s ass with a microscope. The NY Times did a piece on the guy and they reported more background information on him than they have about Obama.
Just to be clear, he doesn’t pay the 3% on the difference, but has the additional 3% tacked on to the ENTIRE AMOUNT.
Don’t forget that Obama wants to take additional Social Security taxes on money earned after $200K. And since Joe is self-employed, he has to pay both shares. Which means 51 cents of every dollar Joe earns after $250K will go to the Feds. And he hasn’t paid state or local taxes yet. Or bought equipment or supplies. Or hired anyone.
Heck of a plan, BHO.
What are you talking about?
Businesses don’t get taxed as if they are employees–which are the tax rates you are using above in your examples. US Businesses don’t pay 36% percent in taxes. Are you freaking crazy?
First off, BUSINESSES (including sole proprietors) get to deduct expenses, like trucks, clothes/uniforms, tools, travel, advertising, LICENSES, legal/tax help (which Joe moron will obviously need),insurances, medical etc. and a whole slew of other crap BEFORE his TAXABLE income is figured. So he could expense it down to as little as $40K taxable probably– if that.
The majority of entrepreneurs manage to pay as little as 5-10% of gross income in taxes. And the REALLY smart guys/gals pay even less LEGALLY. The IRS’ own records show that a considerable portion of larger US corporations PAY NO TAXES WHATSOEVER. Even using Turbo Tax or some program like that, “JOE” could easily get his tax exposure down to 15% MAX of his gross.
Please people. Taxes are NOT a problem for ANY business grossing around $250K. It still is more advantageous owning a business than being an employee– even if you make $300k/year.
I’ll say it again, Joe is either an idiot or a tool.
The purchase price of the business is $280,000. There’s no way in hell the net income from that business is going to top $250,000 (or $200,000 for that matter, Farris). Joe is going to have to make payroll, and keep an inventory and pay real estate taxes (which are deductible) and at least purchase liability insurance. (We know he doesn’t intend to purchase health insurance for his employees.)
So tell me again that he is going to be one of the 5% of business owners who are subject to the increased rate. Bullshit.
So tell me again that he is going to be one of the 5% of business owners who are subject to the increased rate. Bullshit.
Actually, the line that 95% of small businesses make less than $250,000 is bullshit.
Oh wait, now it’s 98%.
By next week, it will be 99.999999999%
Dissent will not be tolerated by the liberal fascists. No one questions The One.
Actually, Joe did, in person, at a rally, and Obama gave him five minutes of his campaign time even though it was clear that “Joe” was not an Obama voter.
Then a few days later, McCain knows all about this conversation, which turns out to be a scripted fabrication, and increasingly like a setup to get McCain a sound bite to use against Obama later.
Unfortunately, Obama was up to the challenge, and the Joe the Plumber story of the noble blue-collar worker who aspires to own a company.
I’m sorry, last line should end with “…fell apart.”
McCain knows all about this conversation, which turns out to be a scripted fabrication, and increasingly like a setup to get McCain a sound bite to use against Obama later.
Oh right. The “He’s a McCain plant” theory. God you’re a moron.
Obama in a moment of not memorizing lines and reading off teleprompters, made a big mistake when he said, “Spreading the wealth” as a large majority of Americans don’t like tax policies that are used as a measure of income redistribution.
So now of course, Joe Wurzelbacher must now be destroyed.
You people make me want to puke.
Jay: Sean, your math is off. With $280K at a 36% rate, the tax bill is $100,800. At a 39% rate, the tax bill is $109,200, so he’s looking at a difference of almost $10,000 not $900.
…
Just to be clear, he doesn’t pay the 3% on the difference, but has the additional 3% tacked on to the ENTIRE AMOUNT.
Yes, he does pay the 3% on just the difference. The 39% rate only applies to the amount over $250,000.
If there was no increase in the tax rate at that point he would be paying 36% on the amount over $250,000. With the increase in the tax rate he’d be paying 39% on the amount over $250,000. So the difference he’s complaining about, the higher tax rate for anything over the $250,000 threshold, is 3%.
If he makes $280,000 that additional $30,000 would be taxed at a 3% higher rate.
So instead of paying $10,800 in taxes (36% x 30k) on that additional $30 of income he’d pay $11,700 (39% x 30k). A $900 increase.
SDM:
So instead of paying $10,800 in taxes (36% x 30k) on that additional $30,000 of income he’d pay $11,700 (39% x 30k). A $900 increase.
Fixed typo
It’s called the “marginal tax rate“, Jay.
Sheesh.
Sigh. Dennis, SF, William:
Joe decided to put himself in front of a camera, and then to go on all the morning talk shows. He’s compared himself to Britney. Now that Palin is no longer the new new thing, you guys have a new celebrity. The idea that he is some private figure whose privacy has been invaded is bullshit. He voluntarily thrust himself onto the public stage. Moreover, none of the information thus far has come from anyone going through his trash or even talking to his ex-wife. Unlike Michelle Malkin in the Graeme Frost incident, no left wing blogger has gone to his house to peer through his windows and interview the neighbors. It’s all public record.
Also, please get the facts straight. Joe isn’t self-employed; he works for Newell Plumbing & Heating Co. In 2006, he made less than $50k, and he has custody of a minor, so unless he is doing better than everyone else in this economy, he’ll benefit more from Obama’s tax plan than McCain’s.
Why don’t y’all find a plumber who actually will benefit from McCain’s plan before you start talking about how socialist the progressive income tax system, which we’ve had in America since the 16th Amendment passed, suddenly has become now that Barack Hussein Obama is advocating it?
SF, Obama is planning to take away all deductions for business expenses — including employees’ salaries? You’re right, simplifying the tax code, if it costs anyone money, IS socialist. I hope someone told Reagan that about the ‘86 reform before the GOP’s Great White Hope passed away.
This whole “we now know more about Joe than we do about Obama” is especially ludicrous. Tell me, where did Joe go to high school? Who are his maternal grandparents? Where does he go to church? What’s the name of his father? his father’s father? Where’s his income tax return for 2007? Has Joe ever done drugs? What’s Joe’s stance on the D&X abortion procedure? Has he ever been out of the country, and if so, what foreign locales did he visit? Where’s a copy of his birth certificate?
Jay: ..as a large majority of Americans don’t like tax policies that are used as a measure of income redistribution.
Sure they do. They just want it spread in their direction.
Republicans really haven’t been too good with the vetting this year. First the Sarah Palin Disaster and now this. Egads.
I wasn’t aware that it was the McCain/Palin/Wurzelbacher ticket, so that Joe needed to be vetted. Maybe jr can explain to us how the guy who asked McCain about calling his wife a c*nt at one of the rallies was properly “vetted” by the MSM.
Sure they do. They just want it spread in their direction.
Yes, they’re called “Obama supporters”.
Maybe one of you geniuses can explain the exact justification behind Obama asking for someone making over $250K, who is already paying a higher tax rate (and therefore, more taxes), to pay even more.
And if you’re going to trot out the lame “it’s only fair” argument, be prepared to explain exactly how it’s “fair” that some people already pay a high percentage of their income in taxes while others pay NONE AT ALL. Please define “fair”.
And don’t forget, Joe Biden tells us that paying taxes is patriotic. Doesn’t that mean that people making over $250K are already more patriotic than all those Americans making less? How much more patriotic do you want them to be?
And using Joe’s logic, doesn’t that make the 40% of Americans who currently pay ZERO income tax (all of whom will receive a bonus “tax refund” check under the Obama plan) NOT patriotic?
“I wasn’t aware that it was the McCain/Palin/Wurzelbacher ticket…”
Did you not watch the debate?
I am so fucking sick and tired of Republican Retards who think they know what they are talking about.
If you thought the Iraq war would go smoothly because Americans would be treated as liberators, shut the fuck up.
If you didn’t see the credit crunch coming, shut the fuck up.
If you don’t know Obama’s tax increase only applies to the amount above $250,000, shut the fuck up.
“And using Joe’s logic, doesn’t that make the 40% of Americans who currently pay ZERO income tax (all of whom will receive a bonus “tax refund” check under the Obama plan) NOT patriotic?”
No. You need to take a course in logic, or you need to shut the fuck up.
Wow!
I had always got the impression that the “small businesses” that keep getting mentioned would be S-Corps & taxed at personal rates, not corporate rates. The tax increase would be marginal.
Obama plans to raise the top rates to where they were during the Clinton years. We heard what a bad idea it was in 1992. And we remember how it turned out too.
I doubted that a Toledo plumber would be making over $250K. Now it semms as if it is so.
And since joe hasn’t paid his taxes, how patriotic can he be?
So now of course, Joe Wurzelbacher must now be destroyed.
I have no sympathy for Joe, since he lied in his “question” for Obama and obviously participated in a setup attempt to sting Obama, whose natural ability to respond as an unscripted and intelligent human being turned it into a joke.
Maybe Joe didn’t realize he was being used by the McCain campaign, but if you have a problem with people scrutinizing him, take it up with McCain, who made a lot of claims for “Joe” that turned out to be fiction. Once the first lie is exposed by a two minute Google search, people start looking for and finding more.
Maybe you noticed that Obama doesn’t refer to fictional people. It’s one of this strengths.
When McCain lies blatantly, apparently in the belief that no one out of the millions watching is going to do any homework on what he said, he deserves what he gets. McCain said that “Joe” was a lot of things he turned out not to be. Joe willingly took part in a hoax that has unraveled. Bummer for you, and an opportunity for me to celebrate Karma by raising a glass.
A dry Chianti sounds nice. BTW, I love the smell of your brains melting at Chez Odub in the morning.
Smells like…ahhh!
Victory.
Heck of a plan, BHO.
YEAH! If McCain had his way, Social Security would be worthless by now!
I’m sorry, I had thought about pointing out how thunderously stupid and inane the wingers are, but I’m still laughing at Jay’s liberal tax conspiracy to destroy small business(”$280K at a 36% rate, the tax bill is $100,800. At a 39% rate, the tax bill is $109,200″). Corporate taxes only apply to net profits, as has been pointed out multiple times. For good ‘ole not-a-plumber-at-all Joe, that would require a ginormous gross profit to realize a 250k net. Since I develop software with a couple of other friends though a small LLC, I might kow a tiny bit more about this than Jay. On one product, a simple sports game made several years ago, the company made something like 330k or so (initially, with more later through royalties). After expenses (hardware, contractor fees, render engine licenses, audio licenses, and so on), we wound paying something like only $16k in taxes on the remaining profit.
But don’t let me and my actual real world experience get in the way of a good winger meltdown.
“Actually, the line that 95% of small businesses make less than $250,000 is bullshit.”
Well, Jay, since you’ve done so remarkably well on the question of tax policy so far, perhaps you’d like to go for broke and provide us with some kind of evidence to support this rather emphatic claim.
So now of course, Joe Wurzelbacher must now be destroyed.
Simmer, drama queen. How exactly has Joe Wurzelbacher been “destroyed” here? He’s been examined. His story lacks consistency. His “Joe The Plumber” persona lacks the credential to even accurately call him a plumber. He complains about a possible tax hike and he neglects to pay what he already owes.
And that got pointed out, is all.
If that low bar is what amounts to being “destroyed,” then do tell me, what exactly happened to Valerie Plame Wilson?
JOE_SCAB@PLUMBER.COM
JOE THE UNLISCENSED “SCAB” PLUMBER
JOE THE NON-UNION, UNLISCENED, SCAB PLUMBER gives a bad name for Unionized Journeymen plumbers.
Using McCain’s 6-Day 10hr shifts Joe could have made in excess of $250,000.00 WITHOUT EVEN OWNING THE BUSINESS!
You say how? An PRIMARY “A” DIVISION JOURNEYMEN in LOCAL #1 makes $80.26 per hr (including benefits) X 6 days a week 10 hrs a day = $3,210.40 Regular Time 20 hrs OT @ $120.29 = $2405.80 = $5616.20 x 52= $292,042.40!
So JOE THE “SCAB” PLUMBER could pay his TAXES and get a new van if he was a PROUD AMERICAN “A” DIVISION JOURNEYMEN in LOCAL #1.
Don’t believe the numbers? Call the Joint board and check!
(718) 752-9630 or I can post a link to the wages.
Good Luck JOE THE UNLISCENSED “SCAB” PLUMBER”
Vote Union Today = OBAMA 2008!
John McCain brings up Joe the Plumber. Democrats do a little investigation, realize his story is full of holes. Republicans scream “ZOMG LEAVE JOE THE PLUMBER ALONE!!!”
You guys do realize why you’re going to get hammered in the November elections right? Rhymes with the phrase “Brama Breens.”
“You guys do realize why you’re going to get hammered in the November elections right? Rhymes with the phrase ‘Brama Breens.’”
Llama beans?
Jay? Dennis? william? Hello?
Now where did they all go?
All the people saying Joe doesn’t have a right to complain about taxes while he still owes some are strangely silent when the shoe is on the other foot.
Jay? Dennis? william? Hello?
Now where did they all go?
Sorry we’re not here to address your inanities at 4:30 in the morning, Sean D.
Good grief.
Did you not watch the debate?
Yes I did. So what? McCain brought this guy up to illustrate Obama’s “spread the wealth” philosophy. How does that make him part of the campaign and require vetting on the part of McCain? Idiot.
If you thought the Iraq war would go smoothly because Americans would be treated as liberators, shut the fuck up.
If you didn’t see the credit crunch coming, shut the fuck up.
WTF does Iraq and the mortgage/credit crisis have to do with the question on paying taxes?
In other words, you’ve got nothing. Why didn’t you just say so?
If you don’t know Obama’s tax increase only applies to the amount above $250,000, shut the fuck up.
It’s still a tax increase, right? Do you not understand basic math? Moron.
No. You need to take a course in logic, or you need to shut the fuck up.
If you don’t like the logic, take it up with Joey Botox. It’s his. Maybe he got the idea from watching FDR on TV back in 1929.
I am so fucking sick and tired of Republican Retards who think they know what they are talking about.
Says the retard who can’t answer the question but instead writes a lengthy reply illustrating his stupidity.
If the shoe were truly on the other foot, as you say, then Olbermann would be complaining about his taxes, not just failing to pay them.
Which he should do, of course, but your attempt at a clever rejoinder fails on the concept of equivalent.
All the people saying Joe doesn’t have a right to complain about taxes while he still owes some are strangely silent when the shoe is on the other foot.
Nuance, Ferris, nuance. Whether it’s good or bad depends on whether they have a (D) or (R) after their name.
For example:
Dissent against a Bush administration = Patriotic
Dissent against an Obama administration = Racist
I’m sure that once Chairman Obama’s Little Red Book is published and distributed after the inauguration this will all be made clear.
McCain brought this guy up to illustrate Obama’s “spread the wealth” philosophy. How does that make him part of the campaign and require vetting on the part of McCain?
It doesn’t make him “part of the campaign,” but doing a quick check on examples you intend to bring up should be SOP.
If McCain decides to talk about “Jimmy Smith, the independent small-business owner” and he turns out to be a heroin dealer…?
And speaking of tax liens:
Yep, that’s some fiscal responsibility you can believe in.
If McCain decides to talk about “Jimmy Smith, the independent small-business owner” and he turns out to be a heroin dealer…?
And that would invalidate Jimmy’s question ““Your new tax plan is going to tax me more. Isn’t it?”” exactly how…?
Or is Obama now requiring a background check on anyone who asks him a question before he deigns to provide an answer?
Dissent against a Bush administration = Patriotic
Dissent against an Obama administration = Racist
I’m sure that once Chairman Obama’s Little Red Book is published and distributed after the inauguration this will all be made clear.
Wow, Dennis not only manages to mangle context but also throws in an unrelated historical anecdote to drive his point. Not exactly a success, more like a Vegas buffet of stupid.
You know who else doesn’t like taxes?
Obama’s campaign treasurer.
http://webofdeception.com/obama.html#nesbitt
And, his companies don’t like taxes either..
And joe the plumbers tax lien doesn’t change a fucking thing. Obama was exosed as a socialist by a normal, down-to-earth guy that asked him a direct quesiton. And Obama’s own words are what did the trick. “Spread the wealth around.” Right, right, you socialist scum.
None of you bullshit changes that.
Socialists respond right now.
Typical Fafaroo. Obama makes a bullshit claim, yet I am the one who has to provide evidence the claim is false.
Fafaroo, 98.75% of all small businesses have employees that don’t eat lima beans. Prove me wrong.
But since it’s Friday and I’m in a good mood, I’ll give your atypical intellectual dishonesty and asininity a break and provide you with this link:
http://patgray.com/home/?p=2489
Sean, you’re right about the marginal rates. However, Joe’s taxes would still go up nearly $10,000 under Obama if he were to buy that business. Oh and to the idiots who think people who own plumbing businesses don’t make good money, you have no clue what you’re talking about. Of course, that would also include Obama who stupidly asked, “How many plumbers do you know that make $250,000 a year?”
Read this:
http://friendsofatr.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-plumbers-new-tax-bill-is-10000.html
Yeah Spider. The guy deserved to have the media and left wing blogs all over him because instead of falling down at the feet of The One and asking to have his photo taken with him, he asked a tough question and Obama fucked up with his answer. So explain please, exactly how the guy not having a license and owing a tax bill makes his question irrelevant? Of course, there was also the lie being spread by left wing blogs that he was related to Charles Keating. And perhaps you can also explain why posting the man’s address, the bulk of his social security number and other personal info is relevant too.
How does that make him part of the campaign and require vetting on the part of McCain? Idiot.
Considering that McCain introduced him personally, I’d say at least a Google search worth. On the other hand, if he can’t be bothered to vet his own running mate, what were the odds of him even doing a check on this guy?
WTF does Iraq and the mortgage/credit crisis have to do with the question on paying taxes?
Considering that our taxes are PAYING for those disasters, I’d say quite a bit.
Dissent against a Bush administration = Patriotic
Dissent against an Obama administration = Racist
Translation: “I don’t like my own medicine! WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!”
And that would invalidate Jimmy’s question ““Your new tax plan is going to tax me more. Isn’t it?”” exactly how…?
Well, I would imagine most of Jimmy’s income goes unreported for obvious reasons, so he probably doesn’t know how much he SHOULD be paying in taxes.
What I find funny is that whenever we bring up examples of people being hurt under our current healthcare system, we’re accused of “personalizing the issue”. Whatever happened to that?
And Obama’s own words are what did the trick. “Spread the wealth around.” Right, right, you socialist scum.
Someone needs to explain to me how concentrating our country’s wealth into fewer and fewer hands helps the rest of us.
As for “socialist,” Mr, Bush has socialized the banking industry. Did you have a problem with that?
Someone needs to explain to me how concentrating our country’s wealth into fewer and fewer hands helps the rest of us.
Good luck with that. I’m still waiting for someone to explain the justification for someone already paying a higher tax rate than most being asked to pay even more (and with much of that given as “tax refund” checks to people who currently pay ZERO tax).
As for “socialist,” Mr, Bush has socialized the banking industry. Did you have a problem with that?
I do. Bush and his idiot lapdog Paulson both suck. Along with Congress.
Considering that our taxes are PAYING for those disasters, I’d say quite a bit.
Nice try, but it still has nothing to do with the reason WHY people in an already high tax rate should be expected to pay even more.
But you knew that.
I’m sure that once Chairman Obama’s Little Red Book is published and distributed after the inauguration this will all be made clear.
Yes, and I’m sure once Gov. Palin publishes “My struggle” from her prison cell, all will be made clear for her acolytes.
Isn’t ridiculous hyperbole FUN?
You guys are getting loonier by the day…
“Right, right, you socialist scum.”
Yeah fuck socialism. Do it the
wingnut welfare‘Murican way and ask for a handout when capitalism fails you.“But since it’s Friday and I’m in a good mood, I’ll give your atypical intellectual dishonesty and asininity a break and provide you with this link …”
And since it’s Friday I just have to ask if your brain is taking a three day weekend and didn’t let you know.
The information at that link does not in any way prove your statement or disprove Obama’s. What you have there is the list of “the maximum average annual receipts by industry that a business can have and still be classified as a small business for Federal Government programs.” That is not a list of actual business receipts or a breakdown of receipts as a percentage of small businesses in the United States.
In other words Jay, you linked to someone who confused government definitions of small business with actual small businesses. You cannot determine anything about the number of small businesses making $250,000 a year or more based solely on the fact that the government says that all business that make under $750,000 are to be considered small businesses.
Are you really so stupid as to think so?
Here’s a fact that disproves both your statements:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/15/smallbusiness/small_biz_taxes_factcheck.smb/index.htm?postversion=2008101612
Jay: Sean, you’re right about the marginal rates. However, Joe’s taxes would still go up nearly $10,000 under Obama if he were to buy that business.
Yeah. And his income would go up $30,000. So what’s your point?
That the more money you make the more you pay in taxes? That $10,000 more in taxes is enough of a burden that he’d turn down the opportunity to make $30,000 more in income?
Jay, I’ll give you $3 if you give 1 of them back. You going to walk away from the two bucks because you don’t get all three?
“If the MSM would spend half as much time investigating Barack Obama as they do Joe the Plumber, conservatives wouldn’t be able to complain about media bias.”
They have and you guys still complain, because you guys are stupid.
Jay: Read this:
http://friendsofatr.blogspot.com/2008/10/joe-plumbers-new-tax-bill-is-10000.html
You mean including the parts where it says:
In other words, where it tries to stack the deck and then flat out states that, like you, it doesn’t understand the basic concept of marginal taxe rates.
But even there they end up somewhere near the truth: “Joe can expect to pay almost $10,000 more under the Obama tax hike under a worst case scenario.” when he makes $30,000 more in income.
Again, you going to turn down $3 just because you have to give 1 back?
Jay: “Typical Fafaroo. Obama makes a bullshit claim, yet I am the one who has to provide evidence the claim is false.”
Hey Jay, I’ll let you in on a little secret. Obama’s not debating here. If you want to claim Obama is wrong, you will have to back it up.
“But since it’s Friday and I’m in a good mood, I’ll give your atypical intellectual dishonesty and asininity a break and provide you with this link:
http://patgray.com/home/?p=2489”
God damn it, Jay. You are such a fucking retard, you need to put away in a home.
That list was for gross, not net. You pay taxes on net.
Secondly, there’s no fucking evidence presented there that contradict Obama’s claim. It doesn’t mention how many business are under $250,000, just the maximum they could bring in and still be called a small business.
In fact, if you read the comment, you would have seen this link…
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/809/
Obama is right. You are a fucking moron.
You have proven yourself to be a fucking moron, again. Yet you insist on posting here like you are an actual human being with a functioning brain stem.
I’m still waiting for someone to explain the justification for someone already paying a higher tax rate than most being asked to pay even more
I know, patriotism and gratitude for a system that allows you to get rich is overrated.
Please tell me what happens to society when there are only very rich and very poor people, with no middle class and the very rich outnumbered hundreds to one by the poor.
Marx thought the poor would storm the castle and kill the rich, but this is a democracy, and the poor people vote.
Do the math.
$80 an hour? I’m in the wrong fucking business.
If the shoe were truly on the other foot, as you say, then Olbermann would be complaining about his taxes, not just failing to pay them.
Which he should do, of course, but your attempt at a clever rejoinder fails on the concept of equivalent.
He did. That story’s old news.
Jay, I’ll give you $3 if you give 1 of them back. You going to walk away from the two bucks because you don’t get all three?
Yes. It’s not FAAAAAAIIIIRRRRR!!!
“Jay, I’ll give you $3 if you give 1 of them back. You going to walk away from the two bucks because you don’t get all three?”
I’ve actually never understood this part of the conservative argument that taxes dampen the incentive to make more money.
I regularly take on freelance gigs in addition to my regular day job because by doing those jobs I can make a little extra money and further my career. At no point have I every thought, well, I’ll have to pay more in taxes at the end of the year so maybe I’ll pass on the extra money or career enhancement. Who thinks that way? I would guess no one, except conservative strawmen.
Oh and jay, following up on the other responses to your “proof” simply citing people who are making the same argument as you does not constitute proof if the argument itself is still wrong. Unless, of course, you are trying to prove that conservatives will fall for anything.
following up on the other responses to your “proof” simply citing people who are making the same argument as you does not constitute proof if the argument itself is still wrong.
Exactly. And as for proof the argument is wrong (If we’re going to require you prove it’s right, you should be able to require we prove it’s wrong.) one doesn’t have to look much further than the “we’re assuming Obama would raise Joe’s income taxes from dollar one, not simply from dollar $250,001″ line.
If you start by making assumptions that have nothing to do with what’s actually been proposed just because you need those assumptions to “prove” the conclusion you want to reach, your argument falls apart pretty quick.
I know, patriotism and gratitude for a system that allows you to get rich is overrated.
Gee, and all this time I thought it was my HARD WORK (you know, long hours, sacrifices, going without, being fiscally responsible, etc.) that was helping me move up the economic ladder. I had no idea it was our economic system graciously “allowing” me to better myself.
Thanks for clarifying things.
And according to Joe Biden, I’m already more patriotic than half of the country. Jeez, what more does he want from me?
Please tell me what happens to society when there are only very rich and very poor people, with no middle class and the very rich outnumbered hundreds to one by the poor.
This might be relevant if the argument was that rich people should pay less. Unfortunately, the actual question being asked is why should people in a higher tax bracket, already paying more than half of the country, be asked to give even more of their income to the government so that it can be given as basically free money to those currently paying NO taxes.
I think that part of the problem is that Obama has arbitrarily drawn a line at $250K and said “if you make more than this, you are rich and must therefore share your wealth with those making less”. I have shocking news for Obama, in many parts of the country making $250K puts you solidly in the middle class. Living here in Southern California (where we also pay hefty state income taxes on top of federal income tax) is a perfect example. How did this suddenly get to be “rich”?
but this is a democracy, and the poor people vote.
And those poor people will vote for whoever is going to throw the most money at them. Which appears to be Obama.
Dave: I have shocking news for Obama, in many parts of the country making $250K puts you solidly in the middle class.
Why, in Beverly Hills those making that little have to live on the street!
Something over 90% of the people in the US make less than $250k/year. Any line would be “arbitrary”, but I think drawing a line that less than 10% of the people are above is a pretty good reasonable place to start saying those above the line are “rich”.
Especially when you also consider those above the line have a combined wealth several times that of those below the line.
Interesting that the Right wingers can’t take any criticism.
Go on a Right Wing blog like proteinwisdom or FreeRepublic and if you even attempt to contradict the lies and bias there…you’ll get attacked and bullied and if you sustain an argument…you’ll get banned. Not so here at Oliver’s place. Apparently the wingnuts just can’t keep up a good argument.
Obama’s been investigated over and over and over again. Keep trying to make up shit is the only Right Wing attack left and they do it over and over again: he’s a Muslim, A communist, etc, etc.
“Gee, and all this time I thought it was my HARD WORK (you know, long hours, sacrifices, going without, being fiscally responsible, etc.) that was helping me move up the economic ladder. I had no idea it was our economic system graciously “allowing” me to better myself.”
As usual, you were wrong. Without the system put in place by the government, you couldn’t get ahead. Without safety nets in place, economic mobility is extremely limited. You would know this if you were educated in the topic at hand, but you are a Republican, and knowledge is your enemy.
Obama’s been investigated over and over and over again. Keep trying to make up shit is the only Right Wing attack left and they do it over and over again: he’s a Muslim, A communist, etc, etc.
Ah yes, the halcyon days of the never-ending Whitewater Investigation.
Good times, good times.
all this time I thought it was my HARD WORK (you know, long hours, sacrifices, going without, being fiscally responsible, etc.) that was helping me move up the economic ladder.
Let me update you on that. All that good stuff in the wrong country is worth diddly. Take all those qualities to Chad and see how well you do.
Hard to believe you think just working hard and being honest is all anyone needs to succeed. You should travel to a few other countries sometime. It will make you appreciate your own a little more, perhaps even enough to give something back without crying about it.
Wow. Jay posts a link that proves he was wrong, and then he runs away.
This is why you should never respond to him with anything more than, “Shut the fuck up, Jay.”
so, what i want to know is if the GOP or MCcain paid off Joe the Douchebags back taxes??? I would love to know, he earned it with his performance on foreign policy etc,,,,,,,,,,,,,