Here’s what the mainstream media won’t tell you when they’re busying parroting the Republican line on how what William Ayers did when Barack Obama was 8 actually having any relevance.
As Media Matters for America has noted, Liddy served four and a half years in prison in connection with his conviction for his role in the Watergate break-in and the break-in at the office of the psychiatrist of Daniel Ellsberg, the military analyst who leaked the Pentagon Papers. Liddy has acknowledged preparing to kill someone during the Ellsberg break-in “if necessary”; plotting to murder journalist Jack Anderson; plotting with a “gangland figure” to murder Howard Hunt to stop him from cooperating with investigators; plotting to firebomb the Brookings Institution; and plotting to kidnap “leftist guerillas” at the 1972 Republican National Convention — a plan he outlined to the Nixon administration using terminology borrowed from the Nazis. (The murder, firebombing, and kidnapping plots were never carried out; the break-ins were.) During the 1990s, Liddy reportedly instructed his radio audience on multiple occasions on how to shoot Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms agents and also reportedly said he had named his shooting targets after Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Liddy has donated $5,000 to McCain’s campaigns since 1998, including $1,000 in February 2008. In addition, McCain has appeared on Liddy’s radio show during the presidential campaign, including as recently as May. An online video labeled “John McCain On The G. Gordon Liddy Show 11/8/07″ includes a discussion between Liddy and McCain, whom Liddy described as an “old friend.” During the segment, McCain praised Liddy’s “adherence to the principles and philosophies that keep our nation great,” said he was “proud” of Liddy, and said that “it’s always a pleasure for me to come on your program.”
Liddy called for the murder of federal agents, served time in jail, plotted murder – and after that, John McCain applauded him and took his money.
There’s also that matter of Todd Palin being a member of a separatist party.
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Nice preemptive strike on McCain’s upcoming campaign of smear. What’s that about glass houses and stones? I think McCain’s about to find out.
But Liddy’s a Republican, so he’s not allowed to be a terrorist.
BUT, But, but …..
That’s different!
I
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But Liddy’s a Republican, so he’s not allowed to be a terrorist.
Jaim, I think you mean “…he’s allowed to be a terrorist.” Right?
And anyway, Republicans call their terrorists “Freedom Fighters.” Also, keep in mind that the would-be Vice Dingbat has called for “fighting the freedom of the press.”
Bwahahahahahaha……
Bill Ayers – Unrepentant terrorist and radical left wing associate of Barack Obama and the failed CAC which wasted $160 million on “improving” education only to use the money to indoctrinate kids with bullshit about “social justice.”
“Bbb…but…but……but…….Todd Palin! G. Gordon Liddy!”
The media, after nearly two years of ignoring this story, are finally writing about it and this is the best the left can come up with? Hilarious. It’s no wonder Media Matters is such a joke.
I love too, the pathetic excuse that because what Ayers did was so long ago, it washes away the stench of Obama being involved with the guy (and that goes for anybody so if you want to bring up anybody else they can kiss it). I can imagine if McCain was friendly throughout the 90’s with somebody who had once coordinated the bombing of an abortion clinic 20-25 years earlier but had ‘redeemed’ himself as a “reformer” of education. The left wouldn’t be able to untwist their panties.
Whitewashing Obama’s substantial working and social ties to a known an unrepentant terrorist like WIlliam Ayers by highlighting this weak rebuttal from a website created for this very purpose is a very poor example of intellectual honesty.
What it is, is a prime example of the true hope and change we can expect to see.
Tim McVeigh was a conservative. He bombed Oklahoma City with the hope that white people would rise up in a race war against blacks.
Nothing more in keeping with conservative ideology (identity determines legitimacy) than that belief.
Jaim, I think you mean “…he’s allowed to be a terrorist.” Right?
Actually, I think it’s “he’s not allowed to be called a terrorist.” Because Liddy’s status as a conservative means that the conservative Liddy is never wrong because of his identity as an awesome conservative who sincerely would love to tell you how conservative he is.
Convicted. Felon. And bald headed prick.
Cameos on Al Franken’s sitcom don’t make up for it, although they help.
And closer to McCain than Ayers ever was to Obama to boot.
I don’t really know all the details of what Ayers did in the 1960s or since. I am more familiar with Liddy and what he did. His acts were directed against the Constitution and the rule of law itself. Like Ollie North, it was his “philosophy” that the Constitution did not matter if his acts were called for to achieve a “higher good.”
I’ve never understood how conservatives could loudly proclaim their own patriotism while embracing these two thugs.
Regardless of what you think about Obama and Ayers, you so-called conservatives should be man enough to admit this: Liddy was and is a traitor. Ollie North was and is a traitor. Especially if you claim that Ayers was.
Regardless of what you think about Obama and Ayers, you so-called conservatives should be man enough to admit this: Liddy was and is a traitor. Ollie North was and is a traitor. Especially if you claim that Ayers was.
Well, exactly. You can’t have it both ways. Either it’s okay for Sen. Obama not to point and shout ‘VILE FIEND!’ when he crosses paths with Bill Ayers or it’s wrong for Sen. McCain not to do the same with Liddy. Either it’s okay for Sen. Obama to not make a cross with his fingers when he sees Jeremiah Wright or it’s wrong for Sen. McCain to not do the same with John Hagee.
You can’t have it both ways. No amount of hair-splitting over irrelevant cosmetic differences in the situations will change that.
FWIW, I wish Sen. Obama hadn’t worked with Ayers. The protests did absolutely nothing to end the Vietnam war, so Ayers both did nothing constructive and (incompetently, thankfully) tried to hurt/kill innocent people. But the Senator has – repeatedly, for the benefit of those who are trying to score a cheap political point – condemned Ayers’ actions from his weathermen days. I’m not sure what the conservative idea is of how to treat this man – not allow him to anything constructive the rest of his life, just wear a big scarlet ‘T’ in his shack at the edge of town?
In re: Watergate
One of the “questions swirling” about it, is “What were they doing in there in the first place?”
One of the rumors circulating at the time was that there was a list of people actively working in the Democrats’s (McGovern’s) campaign who were weatherman (another variant = they had helped harvest sugar in Castro’s Cuba) , or other student radicals…
The radicals in McGovern’s campaign proved to be quite an albatross… As they well could for Obama. The friends, neighbors and relatives of people killed by their activities are still alive and voting.
As are the Viet Nam veterans who fought to defend a country left to rot and die in totalitarian hell.
Funny how the past can used and pooh – poohed by the Left at the same time.
Who has put a bigger hurt on America? William Ayers or George Bush? A fair question, I would think.
Mr. Frank “I’vebeenaconservativesince1960butnotaracist” Di Salle:
WTF are you talking about? You are showing some decidedly McCain-like symptoms with that comment.
Liddy and North were/are traitors. See, that’s the point we were talking about here. Not why Liddy broke into DNC headquarters. I don’t care why he did it.
You know Cons don’t care for the law!
Unless it is used AGAINST someone they don’t like!
Or a Black buy…
(Isn’t that the same thing?)
Cnn & Msnbc, were yelled at by the obama camp on
They are not allowed to report Rezko & Ayers,,
Only fox will report on it, Barack obama called and said, if you report on these issues he can lose the election,
Palin is not Lying about barack obama,
Just MSM refuse to report obama and Ayers, & Rezko CNN & Msnbc refuse to, report any negative issues about Obama, Both CNN and MSNBC , or on the obama campaign, just like Kieth Oberman & chris mathews
I can imagine if McCain was friendly throughout the 90’s with somebody who had once coordinated the bombing of an abortion clinic 20-25 years earlier but had ‘redeemed’ himself as a “reformer” of education.
No, but he WAS friendly with people who coordinated the destruction of our economy. Republicans are masters at economic terrorism.
“Whitewashing Obama’s substantial working and social ties to a known an unrepentant terrorist like WIlliam Ayers by highlighting this weak rebuttal …”
Oh, please. “Substantial working and social ties”? Not even close. The New York Times article on Obama’s connection to Ayers reported that their relationship was passing and tangential at best.
That you, Jay and the rest of the idiot hard right are still pushing this “guilt by association” game reveals the pure desperation of your side.
That you could put “substantial working and social ties” and “intellectual honesty” in the same sentence is just a joke.
I can imagine if McCain was friendly throughout the 90’s with somebody who had once coordinated the bombing of an abortion clinic 20-25 years earlier but had ‘redeemed’ himself as a “reformer” of education.
In other words, while Jay normally decries the horrid practice of guilt by association politics it’s okay for the right to play that card because evul libruls would do it too if they had a chance — and this is proven by the librul reaction to the right’s guilt by association politics.
Yup, the intellectual honesty of conservatives marches on!
if the new York times spun it that way, it must be true!
We are seeing terrorism from with-in the White House. Our country is run so far down into the abyss and sold to foreign owners it’s scary
..
I don’t know how those people got in there, but they need to get routed out and we need to vote in some REAL AMERICANS with constitutional principles.
I am sure McCain is one of the terrorist and I don’t know about Obama..But he’s not what the founders invisioned either.
What I do know is Ron Paul is a true American Statesman and would really put America first and he REALLY believes in the REPUBLIC.
I pledg allegence..and to to the Republic for which it stands.
Both, the Dems and the RINO in Washington is selling you and our country out. Two wings on the same bird.
Go thrid party this election year and let all the goons that we are on to them and that we want our country back!!
I can imagine if McCain was friendly throughout the 90’s with somebody who had once coordinated the bombing of an abortion clinic 20-25 years earlier but had ‘redeemed’ himself as a “reformer” of education.
And you’d be perfectly okay with that, right?
As are the Viet Nam veterans who fought to defend a country left to rot and die in totalitarian hell.
And some are still there and McCain isn’t interested in finding them.
Just check out Oliver’s first page — it’s ALL ABOUT “guilt by association.”
But the Obama-Ayers relattionship isn’t about mere acquaintance. It’s over a decade of working together on various social causes, about money going back and forth, about Ayers helping Obama launch his political career.
And it’s about Obama’s ongoing “evolution” of his explanation. From “some guy in my neighborhood” to the guy who hired Obama for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge… which, oddly enough, Obama spent seven years working for (four as its head) and he never talks about. That would be actual executive experience, why doesn’t he mention it?
How about it would require him to explain how he helped spend $150 million dollars to improve Chicago’s schools, and in the end achieved exactly nothing?
Just asking questions…
J.
It’s over a decade of working together on various social causes, about money going back and forth, about Ayers helping Obama launch his political career.
How does one (working together on social causes) have anything to do with the other (Ayers past, shall we say, misconduct)?
This is the part I don’t get. I really don’t think that Obama and Ayers sat around and plotted the downfall of the US, or even Chicago for that matter.
As for CAC and the “missing” $150M, sometimes good plans don’t work.
Did we ever find that semi- truck filled with pallets of cash in Iraq?
the reason it matters is because Ayers was/(is?) a member of Obama’s inner circle: someone who Obama turns to for judgement and guidance. In 2000, that description would have applied to Karl Rove, Andy Card, Condi, Karen Hughes, Don Evans…
Lets also not forget that McCain’s friend Liddy was also responsible for the killing fields of Cambodia. His breakin at the DNC headquarters lead to the downfall of Nixon witch lead to a cascade of catastrophic events that lead to thew rise of Pot Pol and the killings of millions and millions killed in his genocide. Not my logic. Peggy Noonan’s
And none of the so-called conservatives on this thread have addressed the fact that Liddy and North are traitors to the Constitution and the Rule of Law, yet are embraced by the Right. And both have got rich as hell after committing their treason.
All they want to talk about is Ayers. Their willful hypocrisy is obvious.
That’s because Liddy and North are folk heroes to the right, even though they’re venal, treasonous bellends.
Farris, typing something doesn’t make it true.
(or more likely because of same)
I’m on record, several times, expressing my loathing of Oliver North. He reminds me a bit of Bill Clinton — both men lied, under oath, for their own purposes, and are excused by their ideological colleagues for their offenses — North, becauee of his ideology; Clinton, because… um… er… well, because it’s OK to lie about sex and it’s none of our business and NEWTGINGRICHCHEATEDONHISWIFETOO!
Or something.
Liddy… I don’t recall Liddy actually being involved in any violence or trying to inspire terror in people. He was a criminal of a different sort than Ayers, who led an organization that set bombs intended to kill people for political gain — the classic definition of a terrorist.
And his opinion of that? “We didn’t do enough.”
Thank god the Weathermen only killed themselves. As has been noted, the major difference between Ayers and Timothy McVeigh is their areas of competence — Ayers the more intellectual academic, McVeigh the better bomber.
J.
Liddy… I don’t recall Liddy actually being involved in any violence or trying to inspire terror in people
Bullshit, you don’t have to kill people to be a terrorist. I mean, right now, there are a bunch of ultra-cons that are threatening to destroy our economy if we don’t give them $700 billion. How is that NOT terrorism? If we can have eco-terrorism, why not econ-terrorism?
I will confess that I am not quite sure what the difference is between a “breaker of laws” as I define it, and a “traitor to the Constitution” as you define it.
That is why I am not answering “that question” which no one asked…
But thanks for raising a few more questions:
Is there any connection between Oliver North now and John McCain?
Is there any connection now between McCain and Liddy?
The important question is this : What ideology do those men have in common?
Is it a ideology that we are comfortable with?
Is it an ideology that is KNOWN to us ?
Now, ask yourself :
Are Ayers and Obama connected NOW?
What ideology do those men have in common?
Is it a ideology that we are comfortable with?
Is it an ideology that is KNOWN to us ?
Once the American people have the answers to those questions, then you can say it doesn’t matter …
And speaking of not answering questions, why is no one refuting my prediction with evidence ?
Except Oliver North lied about selling arms to America’s enemies in order to fund a terrorist group in a country that was none of America’s business in the first place, and Clinton lied about his penis.
Oh, and in answer to Frank, because you are making absolutely no sense/.
Except Oliver North lied about selling arms to America’s enemies in order to fund a terrorist group in a country that was none of America’s business in the first place, and Clinton lied about his penis.
Oh, and in answer to Frank, because you are making absolutely no sense/.
the reason it matters is because Ayers was/(is?) a member of Obama’s inner circle: someone who Obama turns to for judgement and guidance. In 2000, that description would have applied to Karl Rove, Andy Card, Condi, Karen Hughes, Don Evans…
So?
That is why I am not answering “that question” which no one asked…
Well, that’s a relief.
Just MSM refuse to report obama and Ayers, & Rezko CNN & Msnbc refuse to, report any negative issues about Obama, Both CNN and MSNBC , or on the obama campaign, just like Kieth Oberman & chris mathews
What? You are rambling.
I just saw a report on CNN this morning saying the connections between Ayers and Obama were tenuous at best.
Would the inner circle thing matter that much even if it was true?
Are Ayers and Obama connected NOW?
No.
What ideology do those men have in common?
I’m not going to answer this one, as doing so could take a few hours. In short, the main difference is degree.
Is it a ideology that we are comfortable with?
Obama? Yes. Ayers? Varies.
Is it an ideology that is KNOWN to us ?
Not to you, no. But what you don’t know could fill a warehouse.
Duros, I’m shocked — SHOCKED — that CNN faithfully reported Obama’s official denial.
Of course, that does tend to fly in the face of reality — which points out that Obama and Ayers probably first met in 1988; that Obama’s first major political event was held in Ayers’ home; that Obama’s only executive experience was the four years he spent running the Chicago Annenberg Foundation, set up by Ayers; that Obama’s seven years (four as head, three as board member) were carefully omitted from his biography; and a host of other pesky little facts that inconveniently contradict the official history crafted by the Obama campaign and cheerfully echoed by the lapdogs at CNN.
Shocking, indeed.
J.
In response to the question “is there any connection between McCain and Liddy now?” The answers is yes, Last November McCain appeared on Liddy’s radio show. McCain greeted him as my good friend and went on to say he was proud of him. Liddy has donated 1000 dollars to Mccain’s campain. In 1998 a McCain fund raiser was held in Liddy’s home.
if the new York times spun it that way, it must be true!”
Right, save, because there’s so much evidence for spinning it this way:
the reason it matters is because Ayers was/(is?) a member of Obama’s inner circle:
Please keep running with the Ayers, thing, guys. Please. I think this could be a real winner for you. It won’t make you or McCain appear desperate and out of touch at all.
Liddy may be a “Republican” at heart, but I’m pretty sure felons can’t vote.
The “felons can’t vote” thing is ancient history. In a majority of US states, at least some felons can vote after serving their sentences, and in two (Maine and Vermont), they can vote while still imprisoned.
What about McCain’s meeting with ex-terrorists Menachem Begin, who bombed the King David Hotel and Yitzhak Shamir, who ordered the assassination of the UN representative?
And how about those nun-killing, school-bombing Contras? McCain gave of his own personal cash while they were engaged in deliberate targeting of civilians for the purpose of instilling fear in the general population. That would be long for ‘terrorists’.
I hope this path doesn’t go very far, but if it has to go all the way, this Straight Talk Express will run right over McCain.
Liddy was a traitor to the Constitution when he broke into the DNC in an attempt to subvert the electoral process. He was a traitor to the rule of law when he broke into Ellsberg’s office on orders from the executive branch, the very branch charged with ENFORCING the law. He was a taitor to the Constitution when he plotted to kill the ferocious investigative journalist Jack Anderson to stifle Freedom of the Press.
North was a traitor to the rule of law when he helped Reagan send arms and money to the Contras, paid for by arms sales to Iran, in DIRECT VIOLATION of laws passed by Congress and signed by Reagan. He violated his oath of office at Congressional hearings into the matter.
Now, do you see, Frank, what the difference is between “breaker of laws” and “traitor”?
Obama and Ayers probably first met in 1988; that Obama’s first major political event was held in Ayers’ home; that Obama’s only executive experience was the four years he spent running the Chicago Annenberg Foundation, set up by Ayers;
Again, so?
This discussion is serving McCain’s purposes — getting us to talk about anything other than the economy where he is utterly at sea.
But if he wants to play that game, fine. His trouble with Charles Keating is fair game. And G. Gordon Liddy? Unlike Obama, who served on two non-profit boards with Ayers (remember, the Annenbergs were friends of Ronald Reagan), and for whom Ayers hosted a small get-to-know-the-candidate gathering and and donated $200, John McCain is in bed with Liddy.
G. Gordon Liddy is an “old friend” of John McCain’s. McCain said he was proud of Liddy. He planned murders though wasn’t able to execute them. He recommended killing federal agents.
To me, McCain’s association with Liddy is far more damning than even Keating — and Ayers is nothing compared to either.
Of course, it would be best to just get back to the issues we care about. Economy anyone?
I’m beginning to think that I can reliably measure someone’s ignorance on a whole range of topics by what they say about the Ayers-Obama connection.
“the guy who hired Obama for the Chicago Annenberg Challenge”
1) Ayers didn’t hire Obama for the CAC. The CAC was a nonprofit enterprise with a board of directors, of which Obama was chairman from 1995–1999. A director is not the same as an employee; independent directors specifically are chosen because they are NOT employees and therefore will monitor what is done by hired management. This is as true for non-profits as it is for conventional corporations.
2) There is no evidence that Ayers suggested Obama as a director or as chairman. Despite the wild hypothesizing that Obama met Ayers when they were both students at Columbia (Obama undergrad, Ayers Ed school) or when Obama was doing his community organizing in Chicago (which would have to have been in the 1 year window between Ayers’s finishing his PhD in NY and Obama heading to Harvard Law), Deborah Leff has said that she suggested Obama based on her service with him at the Joyce Foundation.
“How about it would require him to explain how he helped spend $150 million dollars to improve Chicago’s schools, and in the end achieved exactly nothing?”
3) School reform is incredibly difficult and while money helps, it is by no means a cure all. (Something that conservatives usually know but conveniently forget with regard to the CAC.) People who are interested in a non-partisan assessment of the CAC should read the UChicago and Ed Department reports, although it’s tragically devoid of communism, terrorism, radicalism, etc. One pretty much has to have a genuine interest in the issue of helping kids learn to get through them. The CAC schools during Obama’s time as president of the board did not improve in test scores more than comparable non-CAC schools, but there was test score advantage after 1999.
“Obama’s only executive experience was the four years he spent running the Chicago Annenberg Foundation”
4) No, it wasn’t. He ran a famously successful voter registration drive in 1993, and registered more new voters in Chicago than Alaska’s population at that time. And before I hear “well, I don’t consider that an accomplishment,” I don’t consider selling lottery tickets in poor neighborhoods an accomplishment, but if a company has that as its goal and an executive gets it done, then he is a successful executive even if I disapprove of what he’s done. Similarly, though Republicans literally laugh at community organizing, from 1985 to 1988 Obama was Director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland on Chicago’s South Side. While director he grew the DCP staff from 1 to 13 and their budget from $70,000 to $400,000.
5) Obama’s biography on his campaign site doesn’t include any of the boards on which he sat. OMG! what is he hiding? Probably the same thing I’m hiding when I don’t include every single work and research experience I’ve had on my resume: I’m keeping it short and to the point. Nobody cares that I spent a summer selling knives door to door for Cutco.
PG, can we please tattoo your post on the inside of Jay Tea’s eyelids?
Political reality is that Obama has to atleast pay lip service to influential constituents in his district of wich Ayers and Wright are both very influential. McCain isn’t any different when he puckers up for his far right base.
You don’t get elected if you don’t take money from anyone who will give it and talk out of both sides of your mouth. It’s too bad but thats the way it is. Both these guys have questionable ties.
So why isn’t the media talking about this? The Republicans have been running nothing but a smear campaign bringing up Ayers and Obama so why isn’t this being brought up when the relationship been Liddy and McCain is one of real friendship and one that has gone on for MANY years.
I guess people who live in 7 glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
What part of hubris over terrorist bombings expressed as recently as 2001 equals sadistic, ironic, and obviously veiled attempts at political humor by someone who may or may not have committed a violent act while crusading for his political beliefs? Stop me if I’m wrong, but both camps continue to tell partial truths. Please someone tell me what Ayers did; how was it equalled by North or Liddy; how close were Ayers and Obama; WHY ARE YOU WASTING OUR VALUABLE TIME WITH EIGHTEEN DAYS LEFT??????
John McCain turned against America and made a propoganda film for the Vietnamese while he was a prisoner. There were many other U.S. soldiers being held captive who suffered torture like McCain but didn’t turn into a traitor like McCain. The press won’t show that video. That would destroy McCains’ modern-day pseudo-maverick persona.
I believe that “IF” everything that has been said about McCain, Obama, Ayers, Litty, etc. is anywhere near true, (to some degree it all probably is), then the only thing we have really proved is NOBODY is qualified to be president. The real truth is that all the mudslinging mearly proves that we can sling mud at anybody, and that they are really equal as men. This brings us to the point that the nation seems to be so concerned with which is the economy. Again no one person can control what the economy does. If anyone believes that Obama or McCain can create global economical growth, you area a fool. I all starts at home. Not until we (as men) are able to control what is happening in our own homes, will we have any hope in America or any other part of the world. Regardless what the general public believes or wants everyone to believe, God has blessed this nation and that is the ONLY reason it has been so productive. We have the uncanny ability to completely screw up a good thing. Our only hope is to repent, and pray for wisdom and vote for the one who we believe most wants what God wants from us.
I’m glad Sen. Obama decided to run a relatively clean campaign, but just for a minute—imagine what it would have been like if the Obama campaign had decided to use McCain’s low standards. Imagine the ‘associations’ McCain has had over the years, Liddy, Randy Cunningham, Keating 5, Central American dictators and death squad participants (through his board activities); Palin with her witchcraft-banning preacher, her secessionist-leaning husband, two drop-out kids, blah blah blah. I’m glad Obama didn’t go there, but the Republicans are such freakin’ hypocrits.
11-7-08:
Well kiddies it’s all history now. Omama won by a landslide. McCain will be age 80 in 8 years. So we won’t be hearing or seeing him run anymore. Perhaps Sarah, (the $150,000 wardrobe diva), Palin will be back with her expensive duds. That is if she hasen’t already pawned them.
G. Gordon Liddy,(convicted felon and ex-con), and McCain, (the spoiled brat since birth, and a guy who like GWB has never held a real job in his life), can go to the bar and cry over some beers, and share memories of the ‘good ole days.’ They can take ‘Curious George’ aka ‘King George’ with them.
What goes around comes around.
Been nice knowing you McCain. Write if you get work. That is a ‘real job.’ Not on the tax dole where you’ve been for the past 30 years.