So does George W. Bush. What’s your point?

How did Biden win? By showing that he is a foreign policy expert? We knew that.

Translation:

“WHAAAAAAA!!!! It’s not fair. Biden had an advantage over Palin by being smart.”

Few people, if any, could substantively win a debate against Biden on foreign policy and military issues.

Few people are also running for the office of the VP.

She appears extremely composed and sure of herself which again, we were led to believe would not be the case.

I don’t know who led you to believe that. We’ve been saying that she’s just an idiot.

Bottom line is if you are a die-hard Democrat there is nothing you saw or could have seen to convince you (at least not publicly) that Biden didn’t win.

That would be because Palin’s a loser.

Biden could have drooled for an hour and a half and Olbermann, etc. would still gush about how great he did.

Project much?

And if you are a die-hard Republican the same holds true for Palin (except it wouldn’t be Olbermann doing the gushing).

Fair enough.

The Democrat-leaning are wowed about Biden and the Republican-leaning are wowed about Palin.

Not for the same reasons, mind you.

Moreover, just because you are the smartest person in the room doesn’t mean you have a lick of judgment or common sense.

Granted, but the stupidest person is LESS likely to have those. Gotta go with the odds.

If he had, and I think we can all agree he could have, we’d be hearing nonstop whining about how mean he was to the girl.

I don’t think that’s true. Palin’s appeal seems to be more of the “I’m folksy and one of you” nice-to-have-a-bear-with variety. Obama’s is also “connected to the common people” but with more of an and-he-impresses-me aspect.

Being sure of oneself means nothing. I’ve met many idiots who are positively, certainly convinced they were right.

It’s all about party lines as it always is

Got that absolutely right. But one can move beyond that and apply objective criteria. Put aside “expectations” and whether one side did better or worse than was expected, for example. Look at whether someone provided specifics or generalities. Whether a candidate answered questions or spouted unrelated talking points.

If a transcript of the debate were shown to folks where the identities of the speaker were hidden, I’m sure the majority of people would say that candidate A was not as knowledgeable or as qualified as candidate B. And B would be Biden.

Bottom line is if you are a die-hard Democrat there is nothing you saw or could have seen to convince you (at least not publicly) that Biden didn’t win. Biden could have drooled for an hour and a half and Olbermann, etc. would still gush about how great he did. And if you are a die-hard Republican the same holds true for Palin (except it wouldn’t be Olbermann doing the gushing). It’s all about party lines as it always is. Just look at the commentators all over. The Democrat-leaning are wowed about Biden and the Republican-leaning are wowed about Palin.

For people in the middle though don’t underestimate her appeal. In theory the smartest most experienced person should always win. But if experience and substance was so important, Obama wouldn’t be the Democrat’s nominee, probably Biden or Richardson would. In fact, neither would likely have picked Obama to be their VP. Moreover, just because you are the smartest person in the room doesn’t mean you have a lick of judgment or common sense.

Obama’s appeal is no different than Palin’s — just that Obama uses bigger words. Both can give a great speech (McCain surely cannot) and both are very eloquent in their own way and can effectively resonate with an audience.

Bosniac people
Main

Aspects of this topic are discussed in the following places at Britannica.
Assorted References

* Bosnia and Herzegovina ( in Bosnia and Herzegovina: Bosnia in communist Yugoslavia )

…emigrated. In the 1991 census Muslims made up more than two-fifths of the Bosnian population, while Serbs made up slightly less than one-third and Croats one-sixth. From the mid-1990s, the term Bosniac had replaced Muslim as the name for this group.

As you can see, Biden was accurate in his statement.

Like Kryptonite to stupid indeed!

The election will be decided in Nevada, New Mexico, Colorado, Virginia, Florida, North Carolina and Ohio. If Obama wins two of those, Palin will be off the political radar until 2012.

Yeah, she totally did not answer that at all.

Of course the ‘Bush debate effect’ needs to be factored in – the Governor didn’t hold up a ‘hi mom’ sign, so she’s spotted ten points right there.

Pretty close, though.

“Big shout out to Ms. ______’s class for watching this debate, you all get extra credit.”

*Easily Confused Voters of America

The Democrats would do well to soberly remember that for a depressingly and no-longer-surprisingly large group of voters, a command of the facts and policy comes off as arrogant and elitist. I see it as the American contradiction; we want presidents to be like us until we need them to be better than us (with regard to political knowledge, at least). I caught a snip of Sean Hannity the other day basically arguing that since most people didn’t know anything about past supreme court cases, that made it okay that Gov. Palin didn’t.

If you have trouble wrapping your mind around that one, congratulations. Your brain is still in good working order.

She almost invariably prefaces any remarks that are going to be unresponsive boilerplate to questions she won’t answer wit “Again…”

I didn’t listen/watch/care. If I’m wrong, let me know…

Jesus, Dennis, are you attacking people for supporting their chosen political candidates? Is there a bebate going back to Reagan that you thought a Republican lost? Care to name ‘em?

If you want to lay out your criteria for determining who won the debate and then explain how Palin met those criteria and Biden failed to, please feel free. Otherwise, what the hell is your point? That people for Obama/Biden felt Biden did a good job? Hard hitting stuff, Dennis.

I for one felt Biden was thrown off his game by Palin’s incessant stream of populist-style (note style) chattering, especially at the beginning. He seemed truly disarmed by it. I think he rallied at the end but on style, again, listening on the radio, Palin came off as overall in command of, at least, her personal persona.

Now if you want to talk command of facts and policy, Palin clearly blew it. Not only did she repeat a number of outright lies, she couldn’t even get her party or her running mates positions right on a number of issues.

No, you didn’t answer half the questions, PERIOD.

For those who though Palin won, could you please explain her answers on the following for me:
1) Did she think the bailout was the worst or best of Washington?

2) What would she do as VP to combat political polarization?

3) If she doesn’t know whether humans helped cause global warming, why does she want to “clean up this planet”?

4) What should the plan for the exit strategy from Iraq be?

5) What should be the trigger on nuclear weapons use?

6) Is there a line that should be drawn before the US goes into areas like Kosovo or Darfur?

7) What is her “real” achilles heel, if not lack of experience?
Are there any policy views she has been forced to change due to changing circumstances?

9) Did the “mainstream media” edit out all the Supreme Court cases and newspapers she mentioned in her interview with Katie Couric, or did she not answer those questions, either?

There were more questions that she answered with a yes or no, without expanding, but I won’t include those here, as at least I have an answer, if not any details.

Thanks in advance for anyone who can answer these for me.

But did the McCain/Palin ticket gain any ground? I don’t think so.

There’s a shocker.

You all’s opinion of last night’ debate is a shocker too. Can anyone here tell me of any debate going back to Reagan that the Democrat didn’t win, or that the next day the media declared the Republican the winner?

There’s a shocker.