You Fail
Tweet
If it wasn’t for you meddling kids…
Eric Boehlert dissects the latest right-wing blogosphere blundergate. This time, the brilliant mastermind was The Jawa Report.
54 Responses to “You Fail”
GOP Rep. Spencer Bachus Facing House Ethics Probe For Insider Trading
Jennifer Aniston Reportedly Pregnant With Twins
PHOTOS: Tamara Ecclestone At The Langham Hotel
Red Front? “Center For American Freedom” Logo Echoes Communist Style
Romney Calls For Defunding Planned Parenthood, Wife Was A Donor
GOP Fundraising Email Asks Supporters To “Knock Out” Obama
Romney Comes Up Limp In Nevada
Obama Opens Lead On Romney In New Poll
Latest Entries
Why Do Liberals Support Drone Strikes?
Weekly Standard Rolls Out The Iraq Argument For Iran
Equal Polarization, My Ass
Some Crazy Stuff That Happened In World War II
Maryland Republican Campaign Funds Used To Defend Voter Suppression
The Obama Jobs Record In One Graph
Martin O’Malley All In For Marriage Equality
Newt Gingrich, Filled With More Excrement Than Your Average Politician
New Year, Powerline Still Stupid
Thanks Again
Meta
Blogroll
Disclaimer
The views on this site are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the views of my employer, Media Matters for America
© 2000-2011 Oliver Willis
Wrong wingers only care about getting through today’s sale. Getting caught never occurs to them
Yes, we’re all aware of your blatant hypocrisy when it comes to advertising that contains proven lies such as Sarah Palin not belonging to the republican party. Who cares if the Obama campaign helps surrogates push a few lies under the media radar, right? What’s wrong with a little Obama astroturfing when the fate of all humanity is a stake?!
“Yes, we’re all aware …”
Sentence One: Sarcastic condemnation of hypocrisy for pushing “proven lies”.
Sentence Two: The pushing of a totally unproven assertion as if it were true.
Sentence three: Expanding and reinforcement of previously pushed unproven claim as if it were true.
Oh the irony.
But the question becomes–do we want all of humanity depending
on an intemperate, probably ill, oft confused man and a woman who believes
she knows foreign policy because she can see the Russian Island of Diomede
on a clear day from her window?
As you say—humanity is at stake–even George Will (who I never believed
I’d reference) is frightened.
Prety weak dissection, even by Boehlert’s standards. No one’s got nothing to hide because no one’s done nothing wrong, but everyone starts scrubbing right away. Ethan Winner in the middle of the night, all traces, GONE. You’d think he’d be proud of his work and still looking, especially now, for some credit and some return for his investment. So what if he gets a few prank calls;(dubious at best, his phone number wasn’t given out), just unplug the phone. And why did Daily Kos scrub all traces of the video too? I mean, it’s Kos, what reputation do they need to salvage? Oh, I forgot, they didn’t do anything wrong either, nor do they have anything to hide. Shoddy report by Boehlert.
So, it’s not Watergate. What it likely is is the work of a very sleazy man and a very sleazy campaign that used the same tactics to defeat Hillary Clinton. And a very benign media willing to look the other way while at the same time repeating the urban myth that is the left’s obsession with Karl Rove tactics.
Axelrod and Winner worked together making ads in the past. Winner just happens to make a professional ad using the same voice talent as other Obama ads with his own money and it gets spread around the leftosphere like wildfire. He pulls his multiple aliases off of YouTube within minutes of the report.
Nothing to see here folks. Move along.
There’s no way this ad was done by the Obama campaign and sent around the internet through a surrogate. Nope, it’s just not possible. All the connections are just a load of improbable coincidences all lined up together. Happens all the time…
It doesn’t take much to twist your panties, does it?
“There’s no way this ad was done by the Obama campaign and sent around the internet through a surrogate. Nope, it’s just not possible. All the connections are just a load of improbable coincidences all lined up together. Happens all the time…”
So you have no proof, merely a theory, and you consider it fact.
On that case, the McCain / Palin ticket is pro-Child Molestation. After all, McCain attacked Obama for support the Stranger Danger program, and Palin claims she fired that safety commissioner because he spent too much time and effort trying to stop sex predators.
McCain/Palin
Pro-predator.
So you have no proof, merely a theory, and you consider it fact.
CS Strowbridge
JWG, nor anyone for that matter, is saying they have proof, or is considering it fact. It is you, and Boehlert and Oliver that is declaring it hogwash. Boehlert to his credit, asks ‘Even if the Obama team was involved, so what?’ Well, the allegation that Sarah Palin was involved in the Alaska Independence Party was known to be untrue. Well known, even debunked by the New York Times. So the Obama campaign, and Axelrod in particular, would be at the center and a direct involvement in the making of a video they knew to be false, and therefore could not be aired by them, so passed it off to a media firm, and even then, off into web where it could not be traced to even the media firm. So what, you say? Not a 527, like the Swiftboaters were, but clearly something Axelrod wanted out there floating in the internet and email but not tied back to him.
What does Obama do with Axelrod? Mr. Change and New politics? Too late to dump him. So he’s stuck with the new Karl Rove, which is what he is, just now everyone knows it, and everyone knows there is nothing at all unique about Barack Obama.
Blundergate? What are the blunders?
You fail? What’s the failure in calling attention to sleaziness?
JWG, nor anyone for that matter, is saying they have proof, or is considering it fact.
But then again:
So the Obama campaign, and Axelrod in particular, would be at the center and a direct involvement in the making of a video they knew to be false, and therefore could not be aired by them, so passed it off to a media firm, and even then, off into web where it could not be traced to even the media firm.
You are doin it wrong.
Quaker with Cheetos in a Basement-
I prefaced it with Boehlert’s rhetorical question- ‘even if true, so what? So I was answering his question because he and the proud owner of this blog were mocking the people looking into it as tilting at windmills. Neither Rusty Shackleford nor Allahpundit declared they had the story of the campaign and they didn’t claim they had the goods on anyone. It’s just that the people involved in that ad are all acting suspiciously strange and extremely evasive for non-professionals, whereas Boehlert indicates they should have nothing to hide.
Dennis-
Does it bother you to support the pro-pedophilia “Nambla” John and Sarah “Rape iz tha funny” Palin?
“JWG, nor anyone for that matter, is saying they have proof, or is considering it fact.”
Right. They’re just writing stuff like this: “Who cares if the Obama campaign helps surrogates push a few lies under the media radar, right?” Did I miss something in this sentence that suggests JWG doesn’t believe that this is, indeed, what actually happened?
This entire thing comes down to the single belief that, well, all of these “facts” can’t simply be coincidences. The Obama campaign must have been behind it!!!
Um, you know, life is full of coincidences. Why is it so utterly impossible that this guy made the ad on his own? That, in my mind, is a whole lot more believable than the idea that the Obama campaign decided to put all this time and effort into secretly producing and distributing an attack ad on Palin that focused entirely on her relationship to some obscure Alaskan political party.
Do you really think that the Obama campaign sat down and decided that, of all the available legitimate attacks on Palin, they settled on this AIP thing as the bulls-eye torpedo to the Palin/McCain ticket? They decided that it would be such a death blow that it was worth the time, money and risk to get it out there somehow secretly? You really think that?
At the same time, we’re being told that this video was somehow crucial in getting the message out that Palin was a member of the AIP. The Jawa report refers to it as “the source of the smears.”
But wait a second. The Jawa Report post includes this:
So the video was posted on Sept 10 or 11? Well if that’s the case, what’s up with the MyDD post from Sept 2?
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/9/2/161954/0382
That post includes Palin’s video speech to the AIP convention but also says there’s no evidence suggesting Palin was a member of the AIP.
The Jawa Report makes a big deal about the video being posted on Democratic Underground “on the very day after it was created.” But there are DU posts about Palin and the AIP beginning as early as Sept 2, as well. Go search the site.
So what you also have to believe is that the Obama campaign went to all this trouble to astroturf a cheap commercial to the left wing blogosphere when the left wing blogosphere was already talking about AIP and linking to other videos.
You guys really think that makes sense? That the Obama campaign felt the AIP line was such a huge “smoking gun” issue that they needed to secretly stoke a discussion on left wing blogs that was already, actually, taking place?
Seriously?
In other words, you guys are not asking yourselves “why”? Why Palin and AIP? Why would the Obama campaign want to push this line of attack over others?
The AIP angle was already being discussed and disseminated on the left blogosphere before the ad was posted. Hell, Oliver first posted on it, with video, on Sept. 1:
http://www.oliverwillis.com/2008/09/01/sarah-palin-secessionist/
The left blogs were already talking about Palin and AIP. OF all the lines of attack on Palin that emerged in the days after her nomination, why would the Obama campaign chose to secretly push this particular one?
What possible benefit would out weigh the costs in terms of time, effort and risk?
The answer to that simple, basic question is none. So if you think they did anyway, why?
Why did he pull the ad? Perhaps it was because he was getting threating letters from right-wing terrorists?
Can I just point out one more bit of stupid in the whole pile of stupid that is the Jawa Report post?
The Jawa Report writes:
But then later we have the graph about the NY Times having to retract its initial report that Palin was a member of the party.
So how is it that this PR is both “most likely to have started and promulgated rumors” when one of the first sources on the story was the NY Times?
Later the Jawa Report writes:
yeah, really? Why didn’t the Jawa Report look into the mysterious figure who goes by the cryptic username 1964dobson on you tube? He posted Palin’s videotaped greetings to the AIP convention on Aug 31. Who is this mysterious anti-Palin attack dog?
Oh, he posted a link to his personal homepage on his you tube account.
http://www.youtube.com/user/1984dobson
It’s this guy:
Hmmm. Has he ever composed music for an Obama campaign attack ad? On reading his bio we learn this:
“I was born in the late 1960′s…”
THE 1960s?!?!?!? OMFG!!!!! If that isn’t a dead give away I don’t know what is! This guy is obviously an Obama operative whose been under deep cover for 40 years just waiting for the right time to strike out at Palin with this viscious smear.
The point being, of course, that here’s a dude who posted a video of Palin linking her to AIP who has absolutely nothing to do with Obama and who posted the video weeks before the ad that Jawa Report says “most likely started and promulgated rumors” about Palin and the AIP.
Of course one could suggest that Winner was behind it all from the beginning incuding the NY Times piece but the source for that story and its subsequent correction was the AIP itself.
It’s all just so fucking stupid.
That’s right, she never was a member of AIG, just her husband…and 2006 campaign co-chair, Wally Hickel.
I’m sure all the wingnuts would let slide if it were Michelle Obama or a major player on Obama’s staff with ties to a radical group.
Ummm, yeah…
“It’s just that the people involved in that ad are all acting suspiciously strange and extremely evasive for non-professionals, whereas Boehlert indicates they should have nothing to hide.”
Dennis, how would you react if some weirdos on the internet took all your comments on this blog and wove together some weird conspiracy based on them, accused you of breaking federal election laws and revealed your place of work in the process?
If you started getting weirded out and emailed oliver to delate all your comments to protect yourself from further accusations, would that actually confirm the accusations levelled against you?
Winner’s reaction is actually, completely commensurate with someone who did the work on his own time only to find his company dragged into a wingnut feeding frenzy as a result of it. It is completely commensurate with someone who started receiving weird and threatening phone calls and emails, probably at work.
In conclusion, I’m obviously up way too late and totally bored. No doubt the same combination that drove the Jawa morons to waste so much time “researching” some guy on you tube.
I was going to respond to this in detail here, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized that a thorough debunking of the Media Matters bullshit wouldn’t fit here — so I did it over at Wizbang.
http://wizbangblog.com/content/2008/09/24/some-enquiring-minds-dont-want-to-know.php
But I have to point out one thing: Ethan Winner pulled the videos within MINUTES of the Jawa Report publishing its story — and they published late on Sunday night. That is hardly enough time for ANYONE to track down contact info to get hold of Winner around midnight on a Sunday, but just enough time for someone to panic and say “oh, shit, I better start covering my ass!”
Oh, and it’s the LIES that make this story so strong. The video does not discuss Sarah Palin’s “ties” to the AIP, it asserts as fact that she was a member — and that has been conclusively disproven. Newsweek does an article on the cars of the candidates, notes that John McCain owns one and his wife twelve — and Oliver fabricates that into “John McCain owns 13 cars.” A reporter asks John McCain how many homes he and his wife own — knowing full well that the McCains keep their finances separate. He answers, in essence, saying that he doesn’t monitor his wife’s finances that closely, but he’ll get the answer. Oliver and crew twist that into “John McCain doesn’t even know how many homes he owns,” which was NOT the question asked.
Why do the “progressives” need to keep making up shit? Why can’t they just rely on the facts? Could it be because the facts don’t fit their narrative? Could it be that reality regularly contradicts their world view?
J.
fafaroo-
All your points have been discussed at length at the two main blogs covering this story. This one, Ome Enquiring Mind Want Don’t Want to Know, addresses the Media Matters article dismissing it.
I don’t think Ethan Winner’s behavior is commensurate with someone who did the work on his own time. His use of his father’s name ‘cnwinner’ on Youtube shows he’s not too worried about hiding the company’s name, either. The issue of his getting phone calls a few minutes after the story’s posting is not at all believable. But better for you to read for yourself if you’d really like to know about it.
’m sure all the wingnuts would let slide if it were Michelle Obama or a major player on Obama’s staff with ties to a radical group.
Bill L
The issue isn’t that wingnuts would or wouldn’t let that slide. The issue is whether the McCain camp would surreptitiously peddle a professionally made video they knew to be absolutely untrue about Michelle Obama’s radical ties.
Shorter Jay Tea: I’m too dumb to argue here, so come check out my rant on my shitty blog!
Longer Jaim: I’m too dumb to notice that Jay Tea actually did present one argument here, but saved the other 1,500 words for his own site, so I’ll just pretend that he didn’t say anything about just how fast Ethan Winner took down his videos once he was busted.
J.
Wow, this story keeps getting better. Turns out McCain made lots of money from the firm Winner works for doing PR work for a bill a bunch of lobbyists wanted:
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Three's a crowd: how Arizona’s complex three-way casino campaign was…-a0107423478
Mefi post on how this whole attempt at another nutter conspiracy has backired on McSame:
http://www.metafilter.com/75113/EPIC-FAIL-The-Astroturf-is-always-greener-on-the-other-side
Great job Republicans! Another boomerang in your asses! Keep it up!
(Hey O-dub, am I missing something re: hot-linking? Is there a way to do it short of typing all the code in myself? I’m a lazy git.)
Jay Tea,
Shit, didn’t put two and two together to know that was your blog. My bad, sorry.
Apology accepted, Dennis, but we’re hardly one of the “main blogs” covering this. I’ve just been looking at what others say, connecting things together, and applying my own analysis to the situation. The real work is being done by The Jawa Report. Ace Of Spades HQ, Patterico’s Pontifications, and Riehl World.
I’d post links, but whenever I post more than one link, I seem to trigger the Moderation Monster. So I’ll just give their names, and if you’re interested, you can test your Net Fu in tracking them down directly.
Yes, the story started out entirely on circumstantial evidence. But the string of coincidences it would have required put the odds, in my estimation, in the neighborhood of me winning the lottery, being struck by lightning, spontaneously combusting, and getting hit by a meteor — all on the same day. And within hours, Ethan Winner admitted that the first part of the story was 100% true — that he was the “eswinner” who had posted the video, that he had used professionals to help him produce it, and that he had done a great deal to promote it around the Nutroots.
The rest of his story just doesn’t stand any sort of critical analysis. It’s about as likely as him getting harassing e-mails and phone calls at midnight on a Sunday, mere minutes after the Jawa Report was released — which did NOT contain his personal contact info.
However, both Jawa and Ace “teased” the story early, specifically citing “astroturfing” as their big scoop. They were hoping that the guilty parties would recognize themselves in the warnings and react in a guilty way — such as destroying evidence as soon as the story broke, before any real reaction could set in.
Kind of like what happened.
No, EXACTLY like what happened.
Ethan Winner has already admitted his involvement. Next up — will Charles Winner and Jared Liu-Klein of Winner & Associates admit that they were also part of the effort, as implicated by the Jawa Report, or will they say that Ethan Winner impersonated them as part of his sock-puppeting? And if Winner Senior and Liu-Klein do fess up, then the firm itself is implicated — Winner Senior is the president as well as Ethan’s father, and Liu-Klein has no familial relationship to Ethan whatsoever.
Then we have a PR firm engaging in an “in-kind” contribution to the Obama campaign by spreading lies about one of Obama’s opponents. That is a major no-no.
And if it turns out — as it seems very likely — that the video’s voiceover artist is the same artist who is David Axelrod’s very favorite female voiceover artist, then the question arises — just how did Winner get in touch with this woman? Through Axelrod directly, or through Axelrod’s agency? Winner is in California; Axelrod’s agency is in Chicago. Why would a California PR firm recruit a voiceover artist half the country away?
These are the questions that Media Matters not only won’t answer, but doesn’t want anyone else to ask, either.
J.
These are the questions that Media Matters not only won’t answer, but doesn’t want anyone else to ask, either.
Or more likely, doesn’t give a rat’s patoot about, because even if the allegations are 100% true they don’t hold a candle to the lies, distortion and general sleaziness of what the Palin/McCain campaign does on a daily basis.
Showing your desperation, guys.
If they didn’t give a rat’s patoot, Wilbur, why would they even deign to address? Especially in such a shoddy way that overlooks the major points of the story — the lie that Palin was a member of the AIP, that the Jawa Report nailed Ethan Winner as the source so absolutely that he never even tried to deny it, and that there appear — APPEAR — to be some connections between the video and David Axelrod, Barack Obama’s Chief Media Strategist?
This is not “distortion.” This is not “disputable.” This is not “misrepresented.” This is not “taken out of context.”
This is FRAUD. This is FRAUD, and if it does lead back to Axelrod, then it’s fraud committed by one of the top members of Obama’s staff, who tried to conceal his involvement.
THAT is what is so important. I can understand how you missed it, though — it’s just the kind of thing Media Matters didn’t bring up.
Whether that omission was through malice or incompetence, I will leave up to the individual reader to decide.
J.
Jt spends a lot of words spewing his version of the Chewbacca defense, but in the end it has about as much logic.
If it’s too complicated for you, EL, lemme simplify:
1) PR professional with long professional, personal, and familial ties to Democratic politics starts plugging video with provable lies about Republican politician all over the Netroots.
2) PR professional, when caught, insists that he did the whole thing, with no help from anyone.
3) Confession of PR professional doesn’t hold up — doesn’t even begin to address the strong possibility that he was helped not only by his firm, but by a top Obama campaign official.
4) The confession of the PR professional has enough loopholes and weaseling in it to drive an oil tanker through.
5) The denial by the Obama campaign also contains loopholes and weasel words, as well as an utterly unsupported accusation that the McCain campaign was behind the expose’ of the video and outing of the PR professional.
6) Said Obama campaign official has a lengthy history of involvement in just this sort of activity, to the point of being known as “the king of astroturfing.”
7) Media Matters, that notorious watchdog, demonstrates its toothlessness by not only ignoring the “meat” of the story, but heaps derision and denigration on the folks who first brought the matter to light.
Clear enough, or did I use too many big words?
J.
It’s Jamal Hussein and 1000 other wingnut mocktroversies all over again. Sell crazy somewhere else. In case that is too hard for you to understand, I am dismissing you.
Enlightened Liberal is neither.
If it was “nothing,” they’d treat it like the Obama birth certificate story — ignore it, say nothing, and let the nuts work themselves into a frenzy before bursting their bubble. Instead, they’re going on the aggressive — making up accusations that the McCain camp is behind it and the like, siccing their lapdogs at Media Matters on the mess, and having Kos and the rest purge all the evidence that they were ever pushing the video.
Methinks they doth protest too much…
J.
“ignoring the “meat” of the story,”
About as much “meat” as Tofurkey.
Winner made the video. Then you insinuate that Winner was instructed by Axelrod to produce a suckfest video as commanded by the Dark Lord Obama -without any proof. “if it does lead back to Axelrod”, please. Go get worked up over a scarf.
Again, FAIL.
Whats with the spike in activity here Jay? You’re that onfident to leave V-Dare For Dummies in the capable hands of Cassy Fiano?
Dennis,
“All your points have been discussed at length at the two main blogs covering this story.”
Oh thank god. I was hoping the right wing blogs would start turning their attention to actually important things .. and oh look, the blog you link to is Jay Tea’s. Awesome. He’s always a good source of “facts” and “reason.”
His use of his father’s name ‘cnwinner’ on Youtube shows he’s not too worried about hiding the company’s name, either.
Right. He’s not too worried about hiding his company’s name even though he’s trying to push a secret astroturfing operation funded by Obama. That makes sense.
The issue of his getting phone calls a few minutes after the story’s posting is not at all believable.
And I suppose the good, pure hearts at Jawa Report who were doing the “story” couldn’t possibly have contacted or harassed him for information. My favorite part of the Jawa Reports discretion is when they report Winner’s user name and that he has a Picasa account but say they aren’t linking to the page because it contains family photos. How truly honorable.
As for Jay Tea:
Oh, and it’s the LIES that make this story so strong.
Right. But when the JAwa Report actually lies about this you tube video being “the source of the smears” against Palin that actually bolsters their argument.
From Jay Tea’s blog:
Yup, the Jawa Report’s story was completely circumstantial. Big whoop.
There’s is no surer proof that your crack pot theory is true than drawing attention to the fact that you haven’t actually proven anything and that you don’t care if you haven’t.
They said up front they had no smoking gun, just an incredibly long chain of events and evidence and facts that, put together, represented either exactly what they alleged or the biggest series of coincidences the world has ever seen — by far.
I also always find that woeful exaggeration of one possibility can make other wild claims seem more reasonable by comparison. Lies and exaggeration, are apparently the two key components of any right wing argument.
The “somebody” in question is a professional in the field of public relations, and works for a firm that has a record of producing such political videos. Ethan Winner is no amateur, but a professional — and, as such, has access to resources that the average person would have to pay through the nose to get.
OMG! What a surprising coincidence that the guy who made this political ad also happens to make a living doing political ads and so has access to what he’d need to make political ads, things that ordinary people, who don’t make political ads, wouldn’t have access to if they wanted to make a political ad. I mean, a guy who makes political ads making a political ad? It’s like the worlds biggest coincidence ever. Unprecedented in its coincidentiality.
As for as “may or may not have had indirect relations with the Obama campaign,” that would be through Obama’s Chief Media Strategist, David Axelrod. Axelrod worked with the firm’s founder back in the 1990′s.
So a political strategist worked for a company that makes political ads some number of years ago? I mean really what are the chances of that ever happening?
The voiceover artist’s voice bears a striking resemblance to a woman whom Axelrod has employed for at least one Obama ad. And that same woman seems to be Axelrod’s agency’s main female voice artist.
And we don’t know her name but we’ll publish the names and wesbites of any female voiceover artist who we think fits the bill so weirdos off the internet can contact them about it. Awesome.
And that video is not merely an “anti-Palin video.” It asserts as fact something that has been definitively proven as false. To the average person, that is called a “lie.”
Um, what exactly is your point here? The ad contained a lie? And that proves what?
This lie was debunked over a week before the ad was posted, and it’s simply not credible that anyone so obsessed with Palin’s alleged involvement with the AIP would not know about the public release of the voter registration records.
Oh. So this proves that the lie in the video was a lie? Hard hitting stuff, Jay Tea, although completely unrelated to what you’re actually trying to prove.
the Jawas got it right. They said Ethan Winner was involved in the video. And he stated that he created it himself, paid for it, and spread it around all on his own. Do we believe his confession? I don’t.
The JAwas got what right? That a guy with the username “eswinner” produced and posted the video? To suggest that the Jawa Report isn’t insinuating that Obama was involved, even though it hasn’t been proven that at all, is simply bullshit, Jay Tea. Without the insinuation of Obama’s involvement the entire story boils down to discovering that a guy with a you tube account posted a video to you tube. If i can quote you, big whoop.
Of course, why don’t you believe Winner when he says he made the video himself without any support from anyone? You never really say.
He was busted because he used the user name “eswinner” to plug the video — it was that kind of arrogant stupidity that made the Jawa’s job so easy.
I’ll bet arrogant stupidity makes Jawa’s job easy.
So, Ethan on his own whipped up identities based on his father and one of his colleagues to spread his video? In particular, one of his colleagues with lengthy and strong ties to Democratic politics? Again, it strains credibility.
What also strains credibility is that this team of professional political marketers lead by the evil mastermind David Axelrod would use their own identities to launch a secret astroturf campaign.
As far as the part where Ethan Winner “did it himself and paid for it himself,” we have only his word for it. He clearly didn’t do it all himself. The voiceover was by a professional voice artist, not him (unless he has an extremely feminine voice).So, who was the artist? … Could that be because identifying the voiceover artist COULD unlock the whole story? Because if she is the same woman who seems to be an exclusive “property” of David Axelrod, then we have our linkage to Obama’s Chief Media Strategist — who has made a very successful career out of this kind of “astroturfing.”
Um, Jay Tea, Winner said he hired a voiceover artist so emphasizing the fact that he hired a voiceover artist doesn’t really refute anything Winner has said. And how do we know this particular voiceover artist is the “exclusive property” of David Axelrod? Oh wait, we don’t. It would also just to be beyond belief to think that the same voiceover artist would do a voiceover for two different guys who both make political ads for a living. I mean seriously, what are the chances of that?
Winner pulled the video MINUTES after the Jawa Report story was published. And that story was published at 11:32 last Sunday night — a very odd time for a professional like Ethan Winner to be awake and surfing right-wing websites like the Jawa Report.
You know, Jay Tea, that is an odd time for Winner to be awake and surfing right wing blogs but somehow this coincidence actually strengthens your belief that Winner is lying about receiving calls. Oh right, that’s because of Jawa and Ace’s deft rope a dope strategy which sucked Winner in. Of course, we’d shouldn’t suspect at all that Jawa or Ace contacted Winner directly or threatened him with “exposure” unless he “came clean”. Oh no. They were totally respectful the whole time, I bet.
Yes, the story started out entirely on circumstantial evidence. But the string of coincidences it would have required put the odds, in my estimation, in the neighborhood of me winning the lottery, being struck by lightning, spontaneously combusting, and getting hit by a meteor — all on the same day.
Jesus, exaggerate much, Jay Yea? And BTW the story didn’t “start out” on circumstantial evidence. That’s ALL the story is.
…just how did Winner get in touch with this woman? Through Axelrod directly, or through Axelrod’s agency? Winner is in California; Axelrod’s agency is in Chicago. Why would a California PR firm recruit a voiceover artist half the country away?
Jay Tea, please think this through. You don’t know how Winner contacted the voiceover artist that he used and you have no idea if she is actually the same woman that Axelrod has used in the past. But you still go on to question Winner’s credibility based on facts you haven’t even proven yet. Why would a California PR firm recruit a vo artist in Chicago? Why would you even ask this question when you have no idea if that’s how Winner found the artist. Second, how do you know the VO artist doesn’t live in California? You think Axelrod, a professional media producer, would only use talent who lives in Chicago? Really? You think Axelrod’s resources are so tight he can’t afford to bring in talent or produce his videos in Los Angeles? He’s so strapped for cash he has to rely on finding the best talent he can find in Chicago? Really?
And you may as well ask why would a Chicago agency recruit another agency half the country away to produce its astroturf campaign? To cover its tracks, perhaps? Really? Well if Axelrod hired Winner specifically to cover his tracks why would he loan Winner a voiceover artist he uses all the time? It’s one thing to suggest that Winner was stupid in using his real name on the you tube account, but are you suggesting that astroturfing mastermind Axelrod would be so stupid as to give Winner access to his regular artists and personnel when he was trying to mask his involvement in the operation? Really?
Ultimately, Jay Tea, nothing you have written actually refutes the MM article whatsoever. All you’ve done it repeat the Jawa Reports assertions and innuendos. That’s it. I guess repeating the same thing over and over is what passes for refutation in your book.
If you wanted to bring something new to the argument, maybe you could explain why the Obama campaign would go to so much trouble as to start an astroturf campaign around the AIP story when the left wing blogosphere was already talking about it and had been talking about it for WEEKS before the ad was posted.
What, in other words, would be the Obama’s reason for doing this in this way? I haven’t seen anyone actually address this question. f
Wow. That’s believable! How did he even know the midnight report was going to be about him in order to be prepared to suspend multiple accounts just after midnight? The pre-released promotion was about Axelrod and astroturfing.
Do you seriously believe he was getting “threatening letters” around midnight less than an hour after the report and he was on his computer receiving them? He was so intimidated by some emails that he immediately started canceling his multiple accounts on YouTube?
And why would removing the ads stop a “right-wing terrorist” from sending letters?
“The pre-released promotion was about Axelrod and astroturfing.”
So what you’re suggesting is that Winner was actually paying attention to the Jawa Report all along? That he was monitoring right wing blogs the whole time looking for signs of possible blowback?
Winner saw this post http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/194050.php on Sept 12 and left his account up for ten more days to see if he’d be found out? Really?
Interestingly enough, I don’t see Axelrod’s name mentioned in that post, although it is noted that some material was edited out of that post later in the day. Is there some other “pre-release promotion” post on Jawa Report? Care to to link to it?
What, in other words, would be the Obama’s reason for doing this in this way? I haven’t seen anyone actually address this question.
fafaroo
Allah Pundit addressed it. Go read what he thinks. In short, likely Axelrod produced it, and had to ditch it between the production and the completion when the NY Times debunked the charge. So he gave it to Winner & Associates to get it circulated. Sloppy? Maybe, but it’s not like Axelrod has a history of always covering his tracks.
Neither Rusty Shackleford nor Allahpundit declared they had the story of the campaign and they didn’t claim they had the goods on anyone.
OH MY GOD WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?
I’ve never seen so much nothing discussed here. You guys wanna play Hardy Boys, go look for the $200 billion that went missing from Iraq.
I read that theory yesterday. It doesn’t answer the why question. Of all the possible attacks on Palin why AIP?
1) Why would Axelrod produce the video? You think Axelrod believed the AIP story was the best line of attack of all the possibilities?
2) Even if it was the strongest line of attack, why would Axelrod push a story that was already being discussed and covered by the left blogosphere as well as the NY Times? Why create a fake grassroots push when a real grassroots push was already underway? If the idea was to push the story into the mainstream media, the mainstream media in the form of the New York Times was already pushing it?
32) Why would Axelrod give it to a different company to distribute when all he had to do was create a fake identity to post it on You tube? Because he wanted to cover his tracks? But it’s not like he has a history of always covering his tracks so why give it to someone else?
Nothing you guys have floated so far makes anywhere near as sense as: Winner made the video himself.
In short, likely Axelrod produced it, and had to ditch it between the production and the completion when the NY Times debunked the charge. So he gave it to Winner & Associates to get it circulated. Sloppy? Maybe, but it’s not like Axelrod has a history of always covering his tracks.
Way to go, Columbo. Any word on the Mystery of Who Let the Dogs Out?
Doubtful. The promotion for the report was posted on a few popular right-wing blogs hours before the release (link that others linked to in promoting the report). This was after JAWA had done the investigation to answer the question in your cite.
It is unlikely that Winner was monitoring right-wing blogs himself just hours before the release and noticed Axelrod’s name in relation to astroturfing. But who does have an organization that monitors the major blogs and would have known who the ads belonged to and to alert him (since his name wasn’t mentioned) to the midnight release? Hmmmm… certainly not any part of the Obama campaign!
Also. perhaps Winner has evidence of these midnight terrorist phone calls and emails (made by people without immediate knowledge of his phone number or email address) that alerted him to the need to delete multiple accounts related to his efforts within minutes of the report?
Duros, if you have nothing to say or add, just say, “I have nothing to say or add.”
Or the easier thing to do is just not type at all; we’d understand.
===========
fafaroo- This is just me, but if I’m Ethan Winner and I have the expertise to make this video, why do I go out and hire a professional vo person? I don’t know what that costs and I don’t know how much Ethan’s dad has given him, but I’m guessing it’s not cheap for that service. This woman must have a lot of faith in this person too, because she’s invoicing a guy not affiliated with any business- unusual but not outside the realm of possibility. But why the need for professionalism in a voice over for a video you are only going to put out on Yahoo? “When the bill comes in I will be paying for it” he said. Who talks like that? No one in my business. You’d just say, I paid for the video myself and I’m paying for the voice over. End of story. Strange response, to say the least.
Why did they make a video about McCain not using a computer? Are you wanting to argue that was “the best line of attack of all the possibilities” against McCain?
This makes no sense — why wouldn’t the Obama campaign want to push a popular (at the time) meme? Oliver thought it was a spectacular problem for Palin.
Are you wanting to argue that Axelrod is so stupid that he would post a known lie with his own account? If he had quickly produced an ad (using the same voice talent he had used before) and later learned that the statements were false, he had three options:
1) destroy the ad and lose the money
2) run the ad and face the charges of “pants on fire”
3) pass the ad off to an associate to push as a “grassroots” effort
Lots of theories. Still no proof.
Clearly the Bradys are in Axelrod’s pocket.
Duros, if you have nothing to say or add, just say, “I have nothing to say or add.”
Dude, you’ve had nothing to say since you got here.
Fail harder
We’re all waiting with baited breath for the tin foil hat brigade’s rebuttal video, directed by Oliver Stone
–
Had to sneak in a JR impression.
Just lots of coincidences. But I’m sure we’d all agree that multiple coincidences are very common, at least when it comes to the actions of leftists.
“Just lots of coincidences. But I’m sure we’d all agree that multiple coincidences are very common, at least when it comes to the actions of leftists.
Ah, the imagined characteristics that idiot conspiracy theorists has given to “leftists”. In the case of Wizcrank Jay and you, reality is no obstacle. In fact, it just makes you double down. If anything, the number of words spent on a non-issue is directly proportional to the sweatshop-grade sophistry that wingnuts belch.
Are you wanting to argue that Axelrod is so stupid that he would post a known lie with his own account?
Gee, I guess Axelrod is so stupid that he didn’t realize he could create a fake account on you tube on a computer outside his office. I guess the mastermind of astroturfing campaigns isn’t the mastermind he’s made out to be.
If he had quickly produced an ad (using the same voice talent he had used before) and later learned that the statements were false, he had three options:
Before you go listing off your options, why don’t you try to actually prove that Axelrod made the ad in the first place. The only “link” to Axelrod is that the VO sounds like someone who once did work for Axelrod. That’s pretty weak. At the same time, even if it was the same person, that person is probably a freelance VO artist with her own agent who isn’t Axelrod. Axelrod produces media using talent. He isn’t a talent manager. Anyone who wants to hire this person probably could. If she had a resume that includes political ads that probably increases the likelihood that other political ad producers would consider her for the job. This scenario is whole lot more reality-based than any of the conspiracy theories so far advanced.
As for the why of it, dude, you’ve made my point. The left blogsphere was and still is rampant with all kinds of attacks on Palin. The AIP story was one of the first out of the box and was doing quite nicely on its own. It didn’t need any kind of push.
And I’ll note, no one has yet to address Jawa Reports claims that this particular you tube ad was “the source of the smear.” It clearly wasn’t which makes the Jawa morons, by their own standard, total liars. They know it wasn’t the first word on the AIP scandal because they linked to multiple MSM reports and blogs that were discussing it beforehand.
As to the computer literacy ad, McCain’s ability to use a computer was one of three criticism in that ad painting McCain as out of touch. It wasn’t the sole focus. This ad makes the AIP story its sole focus for no real reason.
“This is just me …”
Yeah, it is just you. You’re just speculating wildly across the board.
Winner hired a professional voiceover person because he’s a professional, or would like to be considered one. He wants to professional ads. There are all kinds of other motives that could be considered here as a possible explanation for him doing it himself, on his own time, with his own money.
How old is he? Is he trying to make a name for himself? Was he interested in seeing if he could pull off an astroturf campaign? Was this simply a way to test out how a “viral” campaign might get started? The whole thing could have been a spec campaign to get paid work later. The web is full of self-produced entertainment and, eys, political ads, by people looking to get attention for themselves and their talents.
The actual issue he chose – Palin and AIP – may have been completely irrelevant to him if his focus was on being able to point to the ad and the marketing of it after the fact and say, see I did this.
Those are all perfectly reasonable explanations for why Winner would have done it on his own and as professionally as possible. You have no idea what kind of deal Winner struck with this VO actress. Maybe he’s paying he full rate, maybe he’s paying scale.
You guys are just seeing what you want to believe. That’s it.