At least in the primetime speeches anybody notice that the GOP seems to have forgotten all about the killer issue that was supposed to revive the party? That is, immigration? Or perhaps they decided the bleeding among hispanic voters was getting out of control. My guess is thats a genie they can’t put back in the bottle and they may have lost out on a killer demographic for a decade.
Immigration has never been an important issue for the GOP mainstream. It’s the nativist radicals within the party who want to kick all the brown folks out.
The big money in the GOP realizes that illegal immigrants are an exploitable source of cheap labor.
They’re obsessed with “sanctuary cities” now
They’re obsessed with “sanctuary cities” now
Yeah, I know. My city is a target.
Wasn’t McCain in opposition to the GOP on the issue of immigration reform? If he or others had articulated his actual beliefs at the convention, the Republican base would have been alienated. And if other speakers had shared the mainstream GOP positions it would have scared off Hispanics.
Yep. Sanctuary cities is an easy political target because virtually every city of any size 1. is run by liberals and 2. is run by Democrats. Part of the “blame the Democrats” plank of the RNC platform. Problem is, that’s the only plank in the RNC platform.
This is such a simple issue.
1) If you are here illegally, regardless of where your from, you should receive nothing. No job, no entitlements. Nothing. Deportation only. If you take away the incentive for people to sneak in here, the vast majority will not bother.
2) If you are here legally, god bless. Welcome to America.
What is so hard to understand about that?
Illegal immigration is and has been out of control for decades, and both parties are equally at fault. One because they want cheap labor, the other because they want to buy their votes with entitlements.
It disgusts me.
If the US was a Third World country, and my kids were condemned to a future of grinding poverty, and I heard that I could sneak across the border into Canada and raise their living standard 200%, I would do it in a heartbeat. And so would any father worth the name.
Any man who wouldn’t do that isn’t a man at all.
That’s simplicity for you, mccann.
But conservatives have a hole in their soul where their empathy should be.
Being personally familiar and friendly with several hispanics whose citizenship is of dubious nature (at least to me, and I’m not going to ask), I concur with Bruce. This issue will exist until the living standard improves substantially in much of the southern hemisphere. Waste money on a fence, it won’t work.
Going beyond a fence is what kinda freaks me out. None of us wants to live in lockdown-land, I assume (unless OW has any Israeli readers).
Bruce, you miss the point…
Look, I don’t blame them either. But the truth is that we aren’t responsible for the rest of the world’s social ills, and it would be nice if our hacks in congress would show a little empathy for the people they’re supposed to represent, *us,* and not try to make a buck off of desperate people or keep their jobs by using illegals to get votes.
You fail to understand the purpose of borders and immigration laws. No other country on earth would let the type of shit that has gone on here in regards to illegal immigration go on in their countries. And neither should we.
So what do you propose, Bruce?
You may accuse me of “having a hole in my soul where empathy would be,” but you have a hole in your brain where well thought out immigration policy should be. We do not have unlimited resources in this country, and as sad (boohoo) as it may make you, it’s about time we start forcing these countries that have used us as an ATM machine with endless funds and a boarding house for their undesirables to deal with their own problems. Again, NOT OUR RESPONSIBILITY! Last I heard, 1/3 of all inmates in California aren’t even US citizens. Who is paying for that? Mexico? Guatemala? Nope….US taxpayers are. Really compassionate, isn’t it Bruce.
It’s mind over emotion.
But conservatives have a hole in their soul where their empathy should be.
I see you’re a faithful liberal, Bruce. You want to salve your conscience with everyone else’s money. And anyone who doesn’t want to play along is just a big meanie.
The next time a California or Arizona hospital is in danger of closing under the deluge of illegal immigrants seeking free (to them) healthcare, you can pull out your personal checkbook and show us all just how compassionate a liberal can be.
Dave, I may be reading him wrong but I don’t think Bruce was saying that the situation ought to be allowed to run as it currently does. I – also a faithful, card-carrying liberal – would argue that what we’re really seeing here is a free market at work.
Consumers are flocking to a region where they can vastly improve the living standards of themselves and their families for relatively very little cost, legal barrier between be damned. I don’t think a fence will work; it will still make perfect economic sense for those same folks to find other avenues to get across, even if they’re more expensive. The return is high enough, in other words. So coyotes buy boats instead of trucks. And can you really tell me even an enhanced border patrol will unload every truck crossing the border to check the entire cargo?
In other words, cross-cultural and cross-national pollination has a way of ignoring legal borders, unless we’re willing to impose really drastic draconian measures on illegal immigrants, which I imagine only the most radical nationalists would endorse. Absent those draconian measures for which in the United States there would be scant political support, I see essentially two rational options – reform and rationalize the citizenship process so as to decrease the incentive to step outside the system, or hope that the living standard in Mexico improves such that the economics start saying ’stay’ instead of ‘go.’
That’s how I see it, anyhow. I don’t pretend to be an expert.
A fence would just be part of it. Other parts would include hammering employers, immediate deportation, and the refusal of any and all benefits at the taxpayer’s expense.
This is real mess, and we can no longer afford to be naively compassionate with this issue. It’s draining this country.
I had to go back to work, sorry for stirring the pot and then leaving.
Leaving aside the emotional, here’s another problem I have with jmccann’s position: if you are GM, and own a factory, the government has no problem with you CLOSING your factory, opening one in Mexico, and hiring a jillion Mexicans. Indeed, they’ll give you a tax break for doing so! If you own a pizza parlor, or a dry cleaners,or a landscaping service that you can’t pick up and move across the border, the government has a HUGE problem with you hiring Mexicans.
I’ve known many “illegal aliens” and I very much prefer them as neighbors to the dittohead knuckledragging motherfuckers who hate them so much.
And it’s about time you recognize that we don’t have unlimited resources in this country. Now can we stop spending 10 billion a month in Iraq?
I’ve known many “illegal aliens” and I very much prefer them as neighbors to the dittohead knuckledragging motherfuckers who hate them so much.
I personally don’t hate them or anyone else. I’m just tired of paying more and more taxes in order to subsidize and prop up the failed economic policies of countries south of the border. Who now have no incentive to do anything about it.
The US (both government and private donations) is already the world leader in aid contributions. But apparently, even that isn’t enough.
Dave, for the rational arguments, Parthenon says it better than I could.
You personally might not hate “illegal immigrants”, but millions of dittoheads do, even though they don’t want to eat $12 cheeseburgers or pay $800 a month to get their lawns mowed, or $50K for a new roof. There are benefits to having these guys around, too, you know.
I’m sick of my tax money going to Iraq when Iraq is running a surplus, too. We don’t get to pay taxes ala carte.
And the last time I was at an emergency room I certainly didn’t see any more immigrants than are proportional to the population around here. I would guesstimate we have about 10-15%.
mccann, I see your points regarding the specifics of your policy position on illegal immigration. I can’t say I disagree with them vehemently, either… maybe a quibble here or there, but there’s little question in my mind that we could definitely find a common ground.
The one thing that really bothers me though… conservatives clamor on and on about how illegal immigration is harmful, and costs jobs, and costs American taxpayers money… but then, support sending billions and billions of dollars over to Iraq. That makes no sense. It is nucking futs.
“If the US was a Third World country, and my kids were condemned to a future of grinding poverty, and I heard that I could sneak across the border into Canada and raise their living standard 200%, I would do it in a heartbeat. And so would any father worth the name.
Any man who wouldn’t do that isn’t a man at all.
That’s simplicity for you, mccann.
But conservatives have a hole in their soul where their empathy should be.”
Bruce Henry
Sep 9th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Nice story Bruce but let me give you a more accurate one. Imagine you’re child is in a lifeboat, and the life boat is full, but there are still people in the water. Will you allow you’re lifeboat to be swamped, or will you defend your boat and save your child?
You need to realize that the way things work in the U.S. is not the norm, but it is the exception. The norm outside of western nations is crushing poverty, and violence. You need to realize we’re on a lifeboat and it’s called Western Civilization. We have a moral obligation to help but we don’t have a moral obligation to commit suicide.
P.S. I realize this is an old post, but I don’t care.