That is a quote from Joe Vogler, founder of the Alaska Independence Party, of which Sarah Palin was a member.
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September 2nd, 2008
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Wonder if the first time this nutjob felt “…proud of his country…” is when Palin was selected as a veep candidate? Who’s unpatriotic now- Obama for not wearing a lapel pin, Michelle O.- or Sarah Barracuda?
stop playing the guilt by association game. sigh.
And by “association” you mean “joined an organization of her own free will that advocates the secession of Alaska from the United States of America.”
Oh Republicans, it’s so cute when you get angry at the Rove playbook being used against you.
Man, Neocons are lame! And the MSM is worse! How come this isn’t getting any play?
… Wow. That’s…
At least he’s got a flair with language.
On a side note, if this was reversed and Sarah Palin was a Democrat, the media would be calling for her to step down and already writing off the Democrats chances in November.
I don’t like the Guilt By Association game either, but good for the goose…and unlike the Ayres thing it’s not Six Degrees of Seperation.
Huh? Vogler was dead before Palin was reported to be a member. You don’t even know if they even met.
Obama and Ayers have been friends and partners for years.
“Obama and Ayers have been friends and partners for years.”
Liar.
The only inaccurate thing about my post was that I misspelled separation.
Ayers? He did his dues (or time?) and did a hell of lot of good since then. This “leftist” bashing isn’t creative. Like all those abortion clinic bombers that Republicans like Joe Scarbough supports? Who killed more people: Right wingers or Left wingers? Timothy McVie did more than all the American leftist extremeists did in a hundred years.
I personally think Rev. Wright wasn’t a racist and also had some good things to say. But that’s just me. The Republican tendency to shut down debate and point fingers is so wrong IMO.
Not, Sarah Barracuda is already attacking Obama and ignoring her own family yet again. And that’s after Obama opposed the snark against her and showed sympathy for her family’s plight.
Barracuda!!
And Ayers. The connection with Obama, remember, being that Obama chaired a non-profit organisation which funded schools and promoted education and which Ayers helped found; and also was on the board of an anti-poverty organisation of which Ayers was also a supporter, and in the course of which the two actually met a few times in meetings.
Right wing translation: Bill Ayers is history’s greatest monster and Obama’s best friend in the whole wide world (apart from Bin Laden)
Palin, meanwhile, joined a far-right party dedicated to the secession of Alaska from the Union, no more than a year after the leader and founder, quoted above, whose ideas still essentially define the party, was murdered. Anyone want to give odds on how likely it is that a) she didn’t know the party existed before his death and b) she never actually agreed with anything he said anyway? Maybe she liked the sandwiches.
So another leftist on this site doesn’t have a problem with blowing up buildings. Big surprise.
Oh, hey, that’s a fantastic conclusion you’ve drawn there! Extra points for ignoring absoluely everything I typed bar six words. Six out of 152; that’s 99.96% of my post you’ve completely overlooked there. Good job!
One wouldn’t trust a member of PETA to run a slaughterhouse, so why would one trust a Republican to run the government?
Forget talking sense to a reactionary Republican, Nimrod. They are in a whole
lot of pain right now–and like an animal caught in a trap they tend to lash
out and bite the hell out of anyone or anything near them.
But we have to ask ourselves why they are so cranky.
And I guess the answer to that would be— EVERYTHING.
So, okay . . . nevermind.
Those arguing that Sen. Obama’s membership in a church whose pastor possessed some unusual ideas about religion and race was relevant to his fitness for a political office but that Gov. Palin’s membership in a somewhat extreme libertarian political party is not relevant to her fitness for a political office are exhibiting a rather herculean display of cognitive dissonance.
Obama belonged and actively participated for 20 years. He referred to the man as his mentor.
I don’t know yet how much Palin participated, but it doesn’t appear to be anywhere close to the association that Obama enjoyed. The dissonance would seem to be a tad less than “herculean.”
How about her membership in the Assembly of God movement, and her strong and evident Dominionist beliefs? When talking about the Pledge of Allegiance earlier, it should be noted that Palin’s pledge would also insert the word “my” in there, as in “One Nation, under MY God,…
Obama belonged and actively participated for 20 years. He referred to the man as his mentor.
Sure. And during that time, Mr. Wright was a well-known figure in Chicago. He was even invited to the White House. You guys keep pointing to the same 30-second clip that gives you fainting spells (and which you badly misinterpret) and you keep pretending that it represents the entire 20 years that Mr. Obama belonged to a well-established mainstream church.
Give it up.
To be fair, I’ve had some people giving me spiritual guidance who were monarchists, some who believed creating a massive government-run public health and medical system that also banned abortion, and others who advised us to be careful with forming personal relationships outside the faith because they were “not like us.” That is why I went to them for spiritual advice, rather than asking them to make policy decisions (I can see, of course, how Republicans might be confused about this issue).
Never, however, did I ever join any political party which advocated secession from the USA. Thus, as you can imagine, I have a lot less sympathy for Palin on this one. Palin being a member of the AIP would be like finding out a candidate was a neo-Confederate or a member of the Black Panthers.
I don’t know yet how much Palin participated, but it doesn’t appear to be anywhere close to the association that Obama enjoyed.
You don’t know how much Palin participated.
You also don’t know anything about Mr. Wright other than what you see on Fox News.
There’ll be time for facts later. Let’s get on with the opinionating.
Yeah, just like Ayers is mainstream. When will we be seeing the commercial talking about Obama’s “mainstream” connections? Anytime soon?
Tyro beat me to it. Sen. Obama was castigated for his church membership, while we are supposed to ignore Gov. Palin’s membership in a political party. Each possessed some views outside the mainstream of their respective arenas, but as we’re discussing fitness for a political office here…
Their platform does not advocate secession. Many of their famous members advocate the exact opposite. Belonging to this organization does not automatically confer secessionist beliefs. It’s quite possible that Palin joined out of interest in the constitutionalist nature of the platform, but found too many members at the time to be too radical for her tastes and backed away from full participation.
How does that compare to Obama’s time in his church?
Also, we have an issue of what is the purpose of the organization. A church is there to provide a community to worship the god of choice. Politics are just a small part of the mix. How many parishoners of fundie churchs roll their eyes when the pastor speaks about controversial subjects? A good many.
On the other hand, the sole purpose of this Alaska seperatist organization is to lobby for Alaska seperation. It is a political organization by design and by charter. And Sarah Palin joined willingly.
Yeah, just like Ayers is mainstream.
You really don’t know anything, do you?
Do you deny that people are calling Ayers “mainstream”?
sez who?
Then you don’t know anything about the “social justice” movement or “black liberation theology.”
Then you don’t know anything about the “social justice” movement or “black liberation theology.”
Neither of which is in anyway comparable to joining a secessionist political party.
Churches have certain dogmas. You must believe certain things to be members of the church. In Christianity, this usually refers to certain Christological formulations and certain beliefs about the nature of religious sacraments. It’s possible to differ on issues of, say, methods of achieving social justice within one’s church and still remain a member.
Similarly, I’m sure that the AIP has members of are Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, and atheist. However, they are all unified by their belief in Alaskan secession.
Catholics wouldn’t elect a Pope who was known to have ties to Protestant organizations, unless he were thoroughly vetted as someone who had disavowed Protestant dogmas. Similarly, having been a former member of the AIP and having taped an address for their convention as governor does raise a few red flags when picking a vice president.
Really? You know this for a fact? Did this come to you in a vision, or do you have some sort of evidence — like their written platform?
Did you guys see this bit? Two tabs below the platform tab?
…
“Goals
Until we as Alaskans receive our Ultimate Goal, the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.
———————————————————————
The Alaskan Independence Party’s goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party’s founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.”
…
What do you suppose that ‘ultimate goal’ might be?
Well, I was going to say 2), but you made me paranoid.
To vote. They said it quite explicitly.
From the site’s FAQs, emphasis mine.
“Q: What is the Alaskan Independence Party?
A: An Alaskan political party whose members advocate a range of solutions to the conflicts between federal and local authority; from advocacy for state’s rights, through a return to territorial status, all the way to complete independence and nationhood status for Alaska.”
But to be perfectly fair…
“Although it is widely thought to be a secessionist movement, the Party makes great effort to emphasize that its primary goal is merely a vote on secession, something that Party advocates say Alaskans were denied during the founding of the state.”
(Link is stuck in moderation. This is also from their website.)
But to be perfectly fair…
“Although it is widely thought to be a secessionist movement, the Party makes great effort to emphasize that its primary goal is merely a vote on secession, something that Party advocates say Alaskans were denied during the founding of the state.”
A: An Alaskan political party whose members advocate a range of solutions to the conflicts between federal and local authority; from advocacy for state’s rights, through a return to territorial status, all the way to complete independence and nationhood status for Alaska.
In other words:
state’s rights secession
Well, it didn’t show my arrows separating the two ends of the continuum between state’s rights and secession.
So it’s not enough to suggest a rather extreme libertarian streak that she was a member of a party that wants its state to vote on whether to remain in the union.
Alrighty.
You liberals better cool it. First you try to tie her to the Alaskan Independence Party; soon you’ll be saying she’s a Republican, unfairly trying to link her to support of Bush and McCain. The American people aren’t going to like that. She’s a hockey mom and eats mooseburgers, and that’s all!
Two final points, Parthenon:
1) I don’t know what the environment of the AIP was in the 90’s except that the party was much more popular then. I don’t know what their platform was at that point in time.
2) The McCain campaign is denying that she belonged to the party, so it may not matter anyway.
2) The McCain campaign is denying that she belonged to the party, so it may not matter anyway.
HA HA HA ha haha HA hahhahahahahahaa, fantastic, totally do that.
Is there some proof that she was a member?
Well, there’s a video of her addressing the convention and giving a message of support, but what does that prove amirite
I, for one, am eager to hear from Ms. Palin herself.
I mean, it’s only been like five days since she was named as McCain’s running mate, so I’m sure she’ll be getting around to giving some press availabilities in the very near future.
Wow. She addressed a convention. So now every politician who addresses a convention must hold every belief of every member as her own? Sweet!
Are you being this dense deliberately or what
Provide some proof that she ever supported secession. How hard can that be?
She was a member of the AIP and continued to support them as Governor, as demonstrated by the video I already mentioned. Ta and da.
Where in the video is this stated?
Where in the video does she say “Also, disregard everything I just said about supporting you and keeping up the good work”? Because that’s more important.
OK, so now we’re at the point where we don’t have any proof that she was a member.
So we just need to look at what it means when a politician speaks at a convention. Got it.
She’s a dominionist, she thinks her church should be running everything. If that happens one state at a time, I’m sure she’s fine with that.
And we’re back at “Are you being this dense deliberately or what”.
Did she or did she not say she supported them in that video? What, was it opposite day?
And what exactly was she supporting? Give us the quote so we can all see how she was supporting an Alaskan secession.
Pardon me for injecting something utterly and completely irrelevant, but the McCain/Palin campaign has released Palin’s complete voter registration, from 1982 to present;
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/02/mccain-campaign-palin-a-republican-since-1982/
And in that record, she has been a Republican since then — the only things that she has EVER changed were her name and her addresses. NOT ONCE did she EVER register as a member of any other party; the PDFs show page after page after page of “R – No change in PA” or words to that effect.
So the REALITY is that Palin registered as a Republican in 1982, is a Republican today, and not once did she ever re-register as a Republican — meaning she never left the party and declared herself a part of another.
Whoops…
Oh, and Zython, funny you should mention PETA. PETA does run a slaughterhouse, of sorts — their shelter has about a 95% kill rate of the animals it takes in. Look it up.
J.
If I posted what I was thinking you’d just say “AH-HA, you are WRONG WRONG WRONG cos my head is not literally stored in that particular area, nor is it capable of such. YOU LOSE 10000 XP”
If you just posted an actual quote or a piece of evidence to show Palin’s interest in secession, then you could just point and laugh at me.
In the meantime, you’re just going to stick out your bottom lip and pout that no one will believe you after you crossed your heart and pledged needles in your eye.
Oh, well then the Republicans released something. THAT clears it up. I mean, her pandering to and attending the convention of secessionists must also be a figment of imagination as well!
Because providing actual documentation means nothing when you have one guy claiming something happened 14 years ago! Now THAT’S proof!
I never said she was a secessionist, she could just be a commonwealthist. But she’s certainly an AIP supporter, and generally speaking, to be an AIP supporter and want the state to remain in the USA is like being a socialist and joining the GOP.
You’re the one denying any connection to the AIP and any of its positions, despite tangible evidence to the contrary.
Well, except for the actual evidence I posted about how many of their members oppose secession and use the group to support state’s rights. I guess if you ignore that important and documented part of the group, then yeah, you’re right, I’m ignoring “tangible” (i.e. she spoke to them once at a convention) evidence to the contrary.
Lemme guess, Oliver: you ran into Dan Rather at the DNC last week, and he promised to fax you Sarah Palin’s REAL voter registration records from a Kinko’s in Texas, right?
Oliver, if you have proof that those records Palin released are fake, notify the authorities. Forging voter records is a serious crime — just look at Obama’s old buddies in ACORN, who keep having people go to jail for faking voter registrations.
Or are you content to just call them fakes, with nothing to back that up?
J.
Awesome link, Mr. Tea:
So, Quaker, you got one person who is willing to go on TV and say the governor was a member of their fringe group, versus legal documents that say she wasn’t. Odd how Ms. Clark didn’t have any documentation of her own (say, a membership check, mailing list sign-up, registration slip, or ANYTHING) to back it up…
J.
Barracky supports the Native Hawaiian Government Reorganization Act (Akaka Bill).
What do you think the native Hwaiians ultimate goals are?
Obama…Hawaiian secessionist!
To be recognised as people the way that the Native Americans and Inuit Tribes are (now). Clearly the same thing as publicly supporting a party that basically wants to secede from the Union.
Nimrod,
The Office of Hawaiian Affairs Web site “Hawaiian Governance FAQ” regarding the Akaka bill has the following posted on the site:
“What form of government will be established? The ultimate form of government — be it total independence, nation-within-a-nation or free association — must be decided upon and ratified by the Native Hawaiian people.
“What’s the difference between Independence, nation-within-a-nation, and free association? Independence: The model would mean complete legal and territorial separation from the United States and the re-establishment of the Hawaiian nation-state.”
Furthermore, U.S. Senator Daniel Akaka, D-Hawaii, himself acknowledged his bill could lead to total independence. When asked during a National Public Radio interview whether the bill “could eventually go further, perhaps even leading to outright independence.” he replied, “That could be. That could be. As far as what’s going to happen at the other end, I’m leaving it up to my grandchildren and great-grandchildren.”
Nimrod,
I believe the Akaka quote speaks for itself.
Obama is a Hawaiian secessionist.
Be more childish. I dare you.
So, Quaker, you got one person who is willing to go on TV and say the governor was a member of their fringe group,
No, YOU do. It was there in that nice story you linked for us. Thanks, Mr. Tea!
So, Quaker, THAT part of the story is valid to you, but the actual DOCUMENTS that show Palin’s actual party registration for over 20 years doesn’t count?
Interesting standard there… “if it supports me, it’s true; if it shows me wrong, it’s bogus.”
I have no problems believing the woman quoted said what she said. What I would like to see is the slightest evidence to back it up — the evidence pointing to it being bullshit is pretty damned solid.
Lying to a reporter is no big deal. Forging voter registration documents is a felony.
J.
Hey, don’t ask me, man. It’s your cite. One of the leaders of the party says Ms. Palin used to hang with them. I’m glad you let us know that.
I have no problems believing the woman quoted said what she said.
There you go. We agree on that.
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