Writing about the fact that Sarah Palin’s teen daughter is pregnant (I don’t care, to be frank, I care more about Palin being unqualified and unready for the job as well as her being an uninformed right-wing nutter), famed plagiarist Ben Domenech of Redstate.com writes an entry titled “Bristol Palin’s Brave Choice” where he says:
We thank her for making this choice now – her child will thank her forever.
Emphasis mine. A choice. A woman has the choice. Sarah Palin’s daughter was able to make a choice. Mrs. Palin was able to make a choice. Women across this nation have a right… to make a choice about their own god-damned bodies.
That girl needs her mom more now then she did before she was a pregnant teen. Just like her Down’s Syndrome child needs her more now then ever. WTF is wrong with the family values wing nuts?
This is also quite the feather in the cap of abstinence-only sex education, isn’t it?
Lets be clear. Sarah had the choice. Bristol didn’t. The right wing will go on and on about this is an example of Palin’s family values because she didnt kick her daughter out or disown her. If this was the daughter of a liberal you know they wouldnt hold any punches.
She also made a choice to ignore all that ‘abstinence only’ education she got as a teen in Alaska. Maybe, if she’d had some education about contraception, she could have made a more responsible ‘choice.’
Amen.
First, you gotta love the ‘publican balls to threaten the Dems with “backlash” if they try to make an issue out of this. Yeah, ’cause if the positions were reversed they would be models of restraint, piously expressing their sympathy while proxies like Limbaugh, Beck, Savage, et al. attack the family daily.
Second, the hypocrisy screams for itself. A perfect symbol for the failure of abstinence education and the notion that “christian” values are the bedrock of a healthy family.
Finally, I wonder what this will do to all the rumors that Trig Palin is really Bristol’s child?
I am uncomfortable with the privacy violation of this entire discussion. We liberals are the ones who parrot privacy, autonomy, etc., yet we are complicit in the use of this minor as a political prop/target.
Between the “___ILF” business, the speculation about Grandmaw Palin switching babies and now this, I feel like taking a vacation from discussing the sexuality of any other human being ever. Permanently.
I hear you Bruce, but Sarah Palin made it an issue when she put herself in front of the country as a moral arbiter, when she can’t even control her own kid. She put her family in front of the public. I feel bad for Bristol. It must have been tough to be a teenager with a vacant father and a mother who is climbing the political ladder.
Now her future is likely destroyed, all because her mother and father were more interested in snowmobile races and running for governor than being parents. It’s a tragedy.
I couldn’t care less about the sex life and reproductive adventures of Palin’s minor daughter. But…
…I’m with Enlightened Liberal. Teens get jiggy when Mom & Pop are too busy to raise ‘em. McCain researched and selected Palin; and Palin broached teh subject. Let them both squirm.
C
http://dumbassesingovernment.blogspot.com
This situation is also why we furnish youths with knowledge about and access to birth control. But apparently not in the Palin household.
Even if we assume that Trigonometry is Sarah’s child, we have the issue of someone (on her 5th child) having labor pains at 4am, going to a day of meetings (including a speech), then getting on a commercial jet (from Dallas, home of several world class hospitals for high risk children) to Alaska (with a stop) and passing the best hospitals Alaska has to offer in favor of a backwater hospital that likely doesn’t have the equipment for a high risk birth. What a parent.
Bruce,
Bristol Palin was outed by her mother. It was Palin’s duty and responsibility to protect her daughter’s privacy by telling McCain that she could not accept his offer because of family matters. It was her ego above the best interest of her child and grandchild or grandchildren.
Didn’t the McCain campaign in its meticulous vetting process see this as a problem?
I hear you Bruce, but Sarah Palin made it an issue when she put herself in front of the country as a moral arbiter
She did? What did I miss? Did she mention anything about morals or “family values” in her speech or anything subsequently?
It must have been tough to be a teenager with a vacant father and a mother who is climbing the political ladder.
This is unreal. Un-freaking-real.
The Kos Kool Aid works.
This conversation reminds me a bit of the great Joan Allen film “The Contender” (one of my personal favorites). I can’t help feeling that a lot of this conversation was inevitable when we started seeing younger (relatively, as in young relative to Madeline Albright and Dianne Feinstein) women – particularly mothers of young children – as candidates for high offices.
EL, I’m with you a lot – if not damn near most – of the time, but I just don’t see much in this. I’m willing to entertain the possibility that I’m overcomparmentalizing here, but a somewhat unusual family situation (even mildly dysfunctional) just isn’t indicative to me of an inability to perform in a high-level, high-pressure executive position. (Lord knows there are plenty of other reasons to believe Palin unqualified.) Look at Eagles Coach Andy Reid – one of the league’s best and his kids are, to put it politely, highly troubled, beyond anything a being a teen mother might entail. Render unto politics that which belongs there. There ought to be a wall between that and personal matters – a wall that should have been there for Bill Clinton, John Edwards, and all the other non-law breakers with unusual personal situations.
You may commence the rhetorical evisceration of my humbly offered opinion.
She definitely put her daughter out there when she accepted the VP position, forget the moral fiber. How can you not believe that?
I dont want to attack Bristol and I won’t. My “amusement” is at the conservatives who act like this is a great thing. I wish the GOP had the same restraint when they attacked the looks of a 13 year old girl named Chelsea.
Sarah Palin does not own her daughter’s reproductive system. Let me repeat for the slow class: Sarah Palin does not own her daughter’s uterus. Accordingly, for her to out the private (yes, I said PRIVATE) life of a minor in order to squelch some bats*** rumors to get her some extra political spliff is outrageous.
It is outrageous that she did this. It is outrageous that WE – the party (collectively) of sexual privacy and autonomy, would sanction this outing of a minor, let alone use it to advance our own agendas re: whatever.
The fact that Governor Palin hold arch-conservative public policy views about sexuality changes nothing, other than the prurient interest of some who should know better.
We do not have the right to know about Senator Bob Dole’s use of the old little blue pill to give Senator Liddy Dole a night to remember. And they are both adults, and he a paid huckster of the product.
Now her future is likely destroyed
This is an overstatement. As Sarah Palin has made the choice to stand by her daughter, Bristol Palin and her child will be just fine.
I’d like to know more about such Republican sympathy for other such teenagers having kids in other communities. I’m sure that they also feel blessed for the babies born to the high schoolers in lower-income communities, and none of them would ever say anything about “welfare queens.” After all, these young mothers could have chosen an abortion, but they chose life instead. We should all be proud.
Ok, Parthenon how about this? Knowing that her daughter would be exposed to crushing amounts of scrutiny and that her pregnancy would be exposed, Sarah Palin said “Yes, I’ll sign up my family for this because I want 9 weeks of fame.” It is VERY hard to expose kids to the spotlight that running for office entails, to do so when you’re own family is going through a crisis is irresponsible.
I agree that life is tough and a similar thing could happen to most teens, given that most are sexually active. Doesn’t matter who their parents are. But parents who have so little regard for their pregnant teenage child like this? It’s pretty easy to see that Mom comes first in that family. And the kids aren’t even on the radar.
Everything about that birth day makes you wonder. Why was it so important that the baby be born in a hometown clinic? Important enough that the mother fly all the way back from Texas in labor? Why would her husband not insist on getting her to a hospital in Dallas?
And why would a mother of four keep her FIFTH pregnancy secret for 7 months, not even letting her closest staff know? Did she keep her previous pregnancies secret until that late?
I know, Jay, I’m “dumb”, and “should be lobotomized”, but it still looks fishy to me.
“This is an overstatement. As Sarah Palin has made the choice to stand by her daughter, Bristol Palin and her child will be just fine.”
Sarah Palin is the one who destroyed her life to start with, by exposing the family to this. If she isn’t the VP candidate, no one cares about Bristol’s pregnancy, even in Alaska. Sarah knew about this and what damage it would cause Bristol and said “sign her up for this”.
“I’m sure that they also feel blessed for the babies born to the high schoolers in lower-income communities, and none of them would ever say anything about “welfare queens.” After all, these young mothers could have chosen an abortion, but they chose life instead. We should all be proud.”
Of course they do. Every time they vote to cut health and welfare benefits for single Moms. Some babies are less equal than others, after all.
From a purely political standpoint, you have to admit that this is fairly “interesting” if not potentially “explosive” news. Had this been a 17 year old daughter of a liberal candidate, all hell would be breaking loose, and the moral high-horse “Family Council” nutcases (Gary Bauer’s ilk) on the right would be having a field day with it.
I’m a firm believer that people no matter how smart, how well-raised, sometimes find themselves in circumstances they never planned they’d end up in. As Lennon once said, “life is what happens when you’re busy making other plans.”
But let’s no kid ourselves that this won’t be a political issue that gets some attention. After all, when Clinton was running, the argument was that “if he can’t be faithful to his wife,” etc. Well, translate that to..”if she can’t keep her kids from making life-changing mistakes.”
Just being the bad-guy advocate. Won’t change my vote…so far, I like what I see in Sarah Palin (and she’s hot, too!) but it sure will be interesting to see how this plays out.
JK
EL…
You do realize that you are criticizing Palin for not declining McCain’s offer in order to protect her daughter from exactly the kind of attack that you yourself are leveling? You and others speculating about whether her daughter was pregnant, then villifying her mother for not shielding her from that speculation is beyond words. Fortunately, it is clear that your way of thinking is a minority in the electorate.
“I have said before and I will repeat again: People’s families are off limits. And people’s children are especially off-limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics.”
– Barack Obama
Seriously, you libs really have no shame.
“I am uncomfortable with the privacy violation of this entire discussion.”
Yeah, well, you better get used to it. Bristol Palin’s situation is an entirely relevant subject of public scrutiny and discussion. It’s not a pleasant reality but it’s reality none the less.
Palin and McCain’s position on abortion are why. Palin has said that she’s proud of her daughter’s decision to have her baby. That is a decision, however, that Palin would deny every other American woman, regardless of age or situation.
It is Palin who wants the state involved in private family matters as she believes women should be forced by the state to carry unwanted pregnancies to term — including pregnancies that result from rape and incest.
If Palin were not running for national public office on a platform that includes opposition to abortion rights she and her daugher would be entitled to their privacy. But Palin isn’t. McCain has stated his opposition to Roe v Wade and his support of nominating judges who would overturn it. McCain and Palin, then, are committed to removing the choice that Palin’s daughter was able to make.
If Bristol Palin had a choice, a decision to make, why not the rest of American women? That’s a valid question and one Palin herself should have to answer. Indeed, she needs to explain to the nation what options the family discussed, whether abortion was ever considered and what counsel they offered to Bristol as she “made her decision.” If Palin doesn’t want to do that, she should withdraw from the ticket.
“Seriously, you libs really have no shame.”
Right. But it’s perfectly “honorable” for Palin to praise her daughter’s “choice” while arguing that no other woman in America should have the same choice. Palin’s private actions are in direct contradiction to the public policy she advocates. That kind of blatant hypocrisy is and should be fair fucking game in politics and the press.
If you don’t like it, I suggest you write Palin and ask her to the right thing by her family and either withdraw from the ticket or change her position on abortion. It’s Palin’s choice.
fafaroo…
That’s a very interesting position. Can I assume you’ve never heard similar language when praising young people for making the right choice when it comes to using drugs, staying in school, etc?
Oliver better flush this whole thread down the memory hole.
The Obama has said you just jumped the shark…..and you are off message.
Get with it….
duh is duh as usual. As I said above, I don’t care about Palin’s kids and what they do as long as its legal. My point is about con hypocrisy about abortion and Palin being unsuitable to the job.
You and others speculating about whether her daughter was pregnant, then villifying her mother for not shielding her from that speculation is beyond words.
I NEVER said that Palin’s 5th child was her daughter’s. I simply said that Palin stole her child from some poor Dallas mother.
I can’t help but wonder if Bristol Palin really had a choice.
Consider her mother’s position on reproductive rights, what political party and religious beliefs her mother is aligned with, and the fact that her mother is the Republicans’ Vice-Presidential candiate…
Palin’s private actions are in direct contradiction to the public policy she advocates.
Did Palin or her daughter have an abortion? That would be an action in contradiction to her public statements.
The stupidity continues.
The post-convention bounce is already gone. Poof! Dead fucking heat.
By all means, keep pushing these stories Oliver. I have no doubt they will really resonate with the average undecided voter and will spell the doom of McSame and his breeder sidekick.
“Can I assume you’ve never heard similar language when praising young people for making the right choice when it comes to using drugs, staying in school, etc.”
I’m assuming you recognize that both those instances still involve a choice: to use drugs or not, to drop out of school or not. We use the phrases we use to praise those young people who chose not to do drugs or drop out of school, precisely because they have a choice to make.
If it were possible to totally eradicate all access to drugs there would be no choice to make, and so no choice to praise, so different language.
If Palin is praising her daughter’s “decision to have her baby” it implies the option of not having it. Was this option weighed or considered? Did Palin and her husband offer counsel to their daughter as she weighed her options?
Why, in other words, are Palin and the McCain campaign both emphasizing that a “decision” was made? Their rhetoric on abortion policy suggests that they believe there is no choice, there is only one course of action.
Now either all options were weighed and considered or Palin and the McCain campaign are being disingenuous. If all options were truly weighed and considered then their being hypocritical too.
My point is precisely that the very language that Palin and McCain have used to explain this situation demand further explanation and they should be prepared to offer it up or Palin should withdraw from the ticket.
Because of Palin’s stated position on abortion, hiding behind privacy concerns at this point is completely hypocritical.
So she said it was her daughter’s ‘choice,’ in contrary to her own policy position.
Admirable, if you ask me. Hypocritical? Not a bit. Too many parents try to force their children to adopt the family’s beliefs, on everything from religion to policy.
If it were my position that X be illegal, but my child decided to engage in the insitutionally-sanctioned behavior of X, is it better for me to force the child to stop or let them make the choice for themselves? And if they make the choice that coincides with my policy position, am I a hypocrite for then saying that it pleases me that they have done so?
In my opinion, no. It does not.
Well, DUH, people are going to talk about Bristol Palin’s choice. You know why?
BECAUSE THAT’S THE FUCKING LAW.
No matter what her parents’ position on abortion, no matter what her own position on abortion, young Miss Palin has the legal right to choose whether or not to have an abortion. To not acknowledge that would be to deny the reality of the situation — she’s old enough, I presume, to seek and obtain an abortion without parental consent or even notification.
So yeah, pro-lifers should be glad that she chose life for the child, and not an abortion. Big whoopty shit.
And I’m glad someone beat me to my next point — thanks, Scratch, for pointing out that Enlightened Liberal’s argument boils down to “how dare Sarah Palin expose her duaghter to attacks like this one and the allegation that she was secretly the mother of Trig?”
(Oliver, I was impressed and relieved when you left that one alone.)
Bristol Palin is essentially used as a hostage here, a proxy for beating up her mother because people don’t like what the mother stands for, and Bristol for being dumb enough to choose Sarah Palin as her mother.
It was disgusting when it was the Bush twins, it was disgusting when it was Mary Cheney, it was disgusting when it as Al Gore III, it was disgusting when it was Chelsea Clinton, and it was disgusting when it was Amy Carter. This is one thing that does NOT get better with age.
You got issues with politicians? Have at it. They most likely deserve it.
But leave the kids the fuck alone. Especially when they haven’t done anything to show they want to be public figures, and even more especially when they’re minors.
Obama was right. Listen to him, will ya?
J.
This is not about Sarah Palin, Bristol Palin or even Palin’s pro-life, abstinence
agenda.
This is about the incredible idiocy of John McCain. This man tried to stick Karl
Rove in the eye for not letting him put Lieberman on the ticket. He and his non-vetting incompetent staff went off half cocked and chose a woman who was under investigation for abuse of power “Troopergate”, lied about wanting The Bridge to Nowhere, took down a website supporting Ted Stevens, laughed while shock jocks called a cancer surviving female opponent of Palins-a bitch, cancer and made fun of her weight, almost bankrupted the town of Wasilla with a sports complex they couldn’t afford–doesn’t believe rape or incest victims should be allowed abortions, doesn’t think global warming is manmade and is a Dominionist who doesn’t believe in the Constitution and thinks it should be obliterated.
It’s like him and his minions have never heard of “the google” or Youtube.
Damn!
John McCain is a moron. And no matter how many of the rethugs smile and say Palin was a good choice—they are secretly shitting themselves because this proves McCain couldn’t run a freakin’ barbecue (his staff does that for him).
BECAUSE THAT’S THE FUCKING LAW.
Yes, but not if McCain/Palin have their way.
Obama was right. Listen to him, will ya?
Forget it Jay. The faithful are scared. They’re lashing out. Not even the soothing words of Obama can calm their fears.
Oh, and that big, hypocritical secret the Palins were trying to keep? Apparently it wasn’t a secret after all:
In Wasilla, Pregnancy Was No Secret
Turns out all the locals knew. But the Palins were forced to make a formal public statement about it and push Bristol’s personal life into the limelight thanks to the douchebag left.
My point is about con hypocrisy about abortion and Palin being unsuitable to the job.
Speaking of hypocrisy, when are those of you who have been so concerned about the Bush administration crushing our freedoms going to address the Obama campaign’s efforts to silence Stanley Kurtz from talking about the results of his research into the Chicago Annenberg Challenge as well as the campaign’s lawsuit and request for criminal charges against the American Issues Project (and its founder) for airing an ad spotlighting Obama’s longtime working relationship with Bill Ayers?
We’re getting a sneak preview of an Obama administration.
a href=”http://pabloonpolitics.com/no_choice.htm”>Choice….choice…we don’t need no stinkin’ choice!
By all means, keep pushing these stories Oliver. I have no doubt they will really resonate with the average undecided voter and will spell the doom of McSame and his breeder sidekick.
You really think undecided voters support polygymy and kidnapping? What world do you live in?
I’ll try again
a href=”http://pabloonpolitics.com/no_choice.htm”>Choice….choice…we don’t need no stinkin’ choice!
“You got issues with politicians? Have at it. They most likely deserve it.”
My issue is with Sarah Palin, not with her daughter.
Palin’s stated position on abortion is indirect contradiction to allowing her daughter a “choice” in the matter. If Palin wants to argue that, well, the law is the law, what could I do as a parent, fine. That would only rank up there as one of the most hypocritical statements ever uttered by a politician.
Palin position on abortion is that law is wrong because there’s moral principle that transcends fallible human justice, which is the inherent sanctity of all human life. If Palin bent this eternal verity for the convenience of being able to say her daughter “made a decision” then what, exactly, does she really believe?
Palin’s daughter need never speak or appear in public at all to address any of these questions. She should be allowed to do whatever she wants. Palin, however, as a public official, has an obligation to explain herself to clear up the apparent contradictions between how she runs her family and how she would govern the country.
AArrugh!
http://pabloonpolitics.com/no_choice.htm
Yes, but not if McCain/Palin have their way.
Really? Please provide the quote where either McCain or Palin said that they support overturning Roe v. Wade.
Palin saying she doesn’t believe in abortion (and demonstrating that belief by choosing to have a Downs child) is not the same as pushing to end abortion for everyone else.
You really think undecided voters support polygamy and kidnapping? What world do you live in?
Polygamy and kidnapping? What fantasy world are YOU living in?
Really? Please provide the quote where either McCain or Palin said that they support overturning Roe v. Wade.
MCCAIN: I don’t think a constitutional amendment is probably going to take place, but I do believe that it’s very likely or possible that the Supreme Court should — could overturn Roe v. Wade, which would then return these decisions to the states, which I support.
Game, Set, Match.
So she said it was her daughter’s ‘choice,’ in contrary to her own policy position.
Actually, Palin never said the word ‘choice.’ That was the writer of the blog entry Oliver linked to and people like Fafaroo adopted it as Palin’s quote.
As I said, the only way they would be “hypocritical” is if they rushed Bristol off to have an abortion or if Palin had an abortion (BUT WAIT!! THAT’S NOT HER BABY!!!! – Zython, Enlightened Liberal, other dolts like those two) when she became pregnant for the fifth time. That would be in direct contradiction to the public point of view on the issue. Otherwise, it’s just more guttersniping from the guttersnipes.
Sen. McCain supports repealing Roe V. Wade:
Q: Would the day that Roe v. Wade is repealed be a good day for America?
ROMNEY: Absolutely.
BROWNBACK: It would be a glorious day of human liberty and freedom.
GILMORE: Yes, it was wrongly decided.
HUCKABEE: Most certainly.
HUNTER: Yes.
THOMPSON: Yes.
McCAIN: A repeal.
GIULIANI: It would be OK to repeal.
TANCREDO: After 40 million dead because we have aborted them in this country, that would be the greatest day in this country’s history when that, in fact, is overturned.
Gov. Palin doesn’t mention Roe v. Wade, but indirectly attacks it:
“Smith said Palin is opposed to abortion, but believes an exception should be made if the health of the mother is in danger.
That’s the only exception Palin would make, though, Smith said.
“She doesn’t make exception for rape and incest, only for health of the mother,” he said.”
Speaking of hypocrisy, when are those of you who have been so concerned about the Bush administration crushing our freedoms going to address the Obama campaign’s efforts to silence Stanley Kurtz from talking about the results of his research into the Chicago Annenberg Challenge as well as the campaign’s lawsuit and request for criminal charges against the American Issues Project (and its founder) for airing an ad spotlighting Obama’s longtime working relationship with Bill Ayers?
Some of us are being illegally detained in Minneapolis because we might look like we may possibly make some paper mache puppets that offend the Republican’ts in town for their week of hookers and blow.
Funny – you don’t seem to notice that actual example of actual police engaging in actual intimidation in your hurry to blame Democrats for using a common Republican’t tactic. Why, it’s almost as if you have no problem when the freedoms being crushed are those of the Democrats, and instead want more of the authorities abusing their power in support of the Republican’ts…
“Actually, Palin never said the word ‘choice.’ That was the writer of the blog entry Oliver linked to and people like Fafaroo adopted it as Palin’s quote.”
Yeah, she said: “We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents.”
The McCain campaign, according to Reuters, followed up with this:
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, the aides said.
Now if you want to parse the semantics of “choice” and “decision” have at it. But there’s only way to read these statements: Bristol decided to have her baby over not having it.
What’s hypocritical here, Jay, is the emphasis on Bristol’s “decision.” According to McCain and Palin’s positions on abortion, there is no decision to make.
It would have been completely in keeping with Palin’s position if she had said: “Bristol is having her baby. There was never a decision to be made.” My only guess as to why they didn’t phrase it this way because it sounds more than a little authoritarian.
But, of course, that’s exactly what Palin’s abortion position is.
BECAUSE THAT’S THE FUCKING LAW.
Yes, but not if McCain/Palin have their way.
And that affects the law as it stands today exactly how?
By the way, one need not be some raving pro-lifer to want to overturn Roe v. Wade. I’m squishily pro-choice, and I want it overturned because it was an absolutely abysmal ruling, fabricating “rights” and a federal interest in a matter that ought to be left to the states, in accordance with the 10th Amendment. The justices had to invent a “right to privacy,” then force abortion into the “penumbra” of the Constitution.
But that’s just diversionary. Under Alaskan law, which Palin swore to uphold as governor, her daughter could have sought an abortion without her parents’ consent and knowledge — and CHOSE not to. Instead, she CHOSE to tell them, CHOSE to have the baby, CHOSE to keep it, and CHOSE to marry the father.
(They also seem to disagree with Barack Obama’s statement that in such situations, the child is a “punishment.” Good thing he isn’t her father.)
That’s the law, that’s the reality, and that’s what matters here.
Period.
J.
It affects what happens today because under McCain/Palin, women would not have the choice that Palin and her daughter were able to exercise. Under McCain/Palin the choice would be made for them.
What’s hypocritical here, Jay, is the emphasis on Bristol’s “decision.” According to McCain and Palin’s positions on abortion, there is no decision to make.
Well it’s also possible that the “decision to keep the baby” differs from “decision to HAVE the baby” in that another decision she could have made was to give the baby up for adoption.
It’s a possibility that could have been their line of thought when issuing their statement.
But I imagine you wouldn’t stop to even consider that because it might force to take a step off the left-wing knee jerk soapbox you’re standing on.
It affects what happens today because under McCain/Palin, women would not have the choice that Palin and her daughter were able to exercise. Under McCain/Palin the choice would be made for them.
No, not true as Jay points out.
The STATES can choose to make abortion legal or illegal without Roe v. Wade. Overturning it simply means the choice returns to the states.
Do you lefties truly not understand this simple point, or is it just conveniently scary enough that you refuse to understand it?
By the way, one need not be some raving pro-lifer to want to overturn Roe v. Wade. I’m squishily pro-choice, and I want it overturned because it was an absolutely abysmal ruling, fabricating “rights” and a federal interest in a matter that ought to be left to the states, in accordance with the 10th Amendment. The justices had to invent a “right to privacy,” then force abortion into the “penumbra” of the Constitution.
So South Carolina has the wrong elevation for abortion?
Cons love using “pro life” as the hood ornament for supple side economics. If they really cared about the babies they wouldn’t try and cut SCHIP, Medicaid and other programs that help the kids they pretend to care about
Call me crazy, I don’t think the abortion issue is about states’ rights, somehow.
You people are all clowns.
Has it NOT occurred to you that the “choice” she made was to raise the baby by herself with her family’s help rather than give the baby up for adoption?
Rabid idiot dems.
“But I imagine you wouldn’t stop to even consider that because it might force to take a step off the left-wing knee jerk soapbox you’re standing on.”
I also imagine you stopped to think that these were carefully thought out and prepared statements and that they mean exactly what they say: Bristol decided to “have” her baby, which can only mean one thing.
“Under Alaskan law, which Palin swore to uphold as governor, her daughter could have sought an abortion without her parents’ consent and knowledge — and CHOSE not to.”
So now Alaskan law is forcing people to consider having abortions, is that you’re argument?
Oh the tremendous conflict pro-life Alaskans must feel being forced by the state to make such a personal decision. If only abortion were illegal in Alaska, Bristol Palin would never have had to even consider the option of not having her child.
What a relief that would have been to her to be freed from such personal responsibility!
Zython, I have NO idea what you mean by that South Carolina reference.
Nimrod, it’s not so much as “state’s rights,” but not wanting to entrust all power in the hands of the federal government. There is no compelling federal interest in regulating abortion; I think it would be best handled at the state level, with the people through their legislators deciding what they find acceptable and what they find unacceptable. It would turn our decades-old debate from being political masturbation into actual meaningful discussion, and perhaps actually settle the matter.
But all this is irrelevant to the actual topic — young Ms. Palin had numerous choices, under current law, and made ones that her parents welcomed and lauded. Everything else is irrelevant and shameless political exploitation of what ought to be a private family matter.
Period.
J.
“….young Ms. Palin had numerous choices, under current law, and made ones that her parents welcomed and lauded. Everything else is irrelevant and shameless political exploitation of what ought to be a private family matter.”
“Under current law.” Jesus. It’s like abortion opponents haven’t the last three decades telling everyone that an unborn child has a right to life that transcends man-made laws. If Sarah Palin felt that in this instance, her hands were tied by Alaskan law and there was nothing for her to do but let her daughter decide between having the child and aborting it, her reasoning flies in the face of everything the pro-life movement has been arguing for the last three plus decades.
“Everything else is irrelevant and shameless political exploitation of what ought to be a private family matter.”
Let me also try to explain, again, why this isn’t just a private family matter. If Palin was pro-choice, I would be arguing just that, whether her daughter decided to have the baby or not. But Palin isn’t pro-choice. She’s pro-life. But even more, she’s so pro-life, she doesn’t even think a rape victim should be given the right to decide between keeping her rapists child or not.
And yet, in her own personal life, Palin left it up to her daughter to decide what to do. That is, without question, a pro-choice position.
Palin has an obligation to explain the contradiction between her public policy position and how she acts within her own family, because her public policy position could have a direct impact on millions of American women. That’s why this isn’t simply a private family matter.
Bristol decided to “have” her baby, which can only mean one thing.
But they didn’t say “have.” They said “keep.”
Palin has an obligation to explain the contradiction between her public policy position and how she acts within her own family,
Except there is no contradiction.
The mind boggles and the inanity.
I’m fine with choice, so long as it’s done early. Just saw some pics of a late term abortion and almost vomited. (unless mother’s life is in danger of course)
It’s murder, and anyone that says otherwise is sick in the head.
I have said for years that we should stop referring to these folks as pro-lifers. They are absolutists who believe in compulsory pregnancy.
Jaty: “This is unreal. Un-freaking-real.
The Kos Kool Aid works.”
Really? I read nearly the exact same thing on a Christian values website. Something about mothers need to stay home and raise their kids.
Why do 17 year old girls have sex? My guess is it’s pressure to please, attention, curiosity or a lack of affection and attention at home.
I am a working mother. I am friends with other working mothers. We range in careers from lawyers, to secretaries, to clerks, to doctors, to veterinarians, to salespeople, etc.
All of us wanted to be home with our children. A few have to work fulltime. Some of us switched careers to give us more time to be with our children. Others stopped working and cut back on luxuries. There are moms who work part-time.
All of us have an innate connection to our children. We feel the need to take responsibility to make our child feel loved, secure and wanted. We are there to help them become honest, kind, productive,. . .adults.
Dad’s of this group wanted what’s best for their child: The child’s mother to be with the child. They encouraged their wives to stay home with the children.
Palin has 5 children whom she doesn’t spend time with.
Running for V.P. of the U.S. puts her children squarely on the backburner.
By running for any office she chose to put her children in the public eye. Right or wrong it happens and Palin aparently finds politics more important than the needs and privacy of her children.
Good grief, one of the children is only 4 months old how will that child bond with his mother? I think there’s a piece of heart missing when a mom puts work above children. That doesn’t mean, don’t work. It means don’t work too much.
“And yet, in her own personal life, Palin left it up to her daughter to decide what to do. That is, without question, a pro-choice position.”
And that is why, despite Jay’s insistence to the contrary, is why there IS a contradiction. You can say crap like, “the mind boggles” all you like (what are you, Arthur Conan Doyle?), but fafaroo’s point is still valid.
Bruce, the next time Fafaroo makes a valid point would be the first time.
There’s a clear contradiction, Jay. Palin’s daughter chose what she wanted to do – she wasn’t compelled by the state one way or the other. That’s the whole frigging point.
“But they didn’t say ‘have.’ They said ‘keep.’”
Dude, they said “have” as in:
“We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents.”
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/ab547fc8-d96d-4f87-aa8a-2e52be2b66fc.htm
OK, Jay. Saying something repeatedly does, indeed, make it true.
I thought you had clocked out now that Jay Tea and jmccann had clocked in.
“But they didn’t say ‘have.’ They said ‘keep.’”
Jay, where did you read that they said ‘keep’ in their official statement? I’m interested to know where you get your “facts” from.
Funny how libs love to move the goalposts on what is a pols “right to privacy”. Rumors surround John Edwards, while campaigning to be Democratic nominee, cheating on his cancer-stricken wife: NONE OF OUR BUSINESS! Rumors surround Bubba cheating and cheating and cheating and cheating on Hillary while POTUS, then he lies about dalliances with Monica under oath: NONE OF OUR BUSINESS! What 17yo Bristol Palin does with her uterus? SARAH PALIN MUST RESIGN!!!
You guys crack me up.
GreyGhost, I kinda missed it when Bristol Palin ran for public office. Could you provide us with the details? Especially since she’s not yet even old enough to vote…
J.
I don’t know which liberals “moved the goalpost” regarding Edwards, but I didn’t notice us circling the wagons. Actually, I didn’t see ANY liberal claiming that Edwards’ behavior was anything but the worst kind of hypocrisy.
Fuck Edwards, and I say that as a former supporter and contributor. He let all of his supporters down–hard–and I, for one, will never forgive him. When you base your campaign partly on “family values’, you’re fair game when it is revealed that you don’t necessarily practice what you preach.
And I, as the father of teenage daughters, would have declined the offer of the Vice Presidency if it meant that my daughter would be put through a meatgrinder. I have more sympathy, and respect, for my daughter than that. Apparently Palin doesn’t.
“Funny how libs love to move the goalposts on what is a pols ‘right to privacy’.”
Yeah, I don’t seem to remember either Edwards or Clinton advocating legislation or the appointment of judges which would make extra-marital affairs illegal and punishable by law for all Americans.
MrGreyGhost: Funny how libs love to move the goalposts on what is a pols ‘right to privacy’.”
Right to privacy ends when you try and strip away that very right from others. That’s exactly what you are trying to do when you want to overturn Roe vs. Wade.
I find it appalling — if I read Palin’s position accurately — that abortion would not be allowed if a child or woman was raped or incested, but only if “the mother’s health is affected.”
RAPE AND INCEST DON’T AFFECT A WOMAN’S HEALTH, YOU SAY???
Like Obama, I believe children and candidate’s families are off limits. I can only imagine how Obama must have felt when the Daily Show looped his daughter’s innocent childlike interruptions and the commentator say. “Can anyone get this kid to SHUT UP!”
Palin is willing to lose her daughter’s rights to privacy in order to win a campaign.
Questions that need to be asked especially about the timing.
1) Why didn’t Palin and McCain make this announcement on Day One and ask that Palin’s family matters were private?
2) Why did Palin make a public announcement about her daughter’s pregnancy when the internet rumors were not about her being pregnant. The internet rumors were about Palin and if she was Trig’s mother, why was she so reckless with her health and the health of her child.
3) Did Palin and McCain plan to make an announcement after they were elected on November 4?
What makes this situation obscene is that Sarah Palin’s decisions as a mother not putting the interest of her five month old pregnant unwed daughter first, but last. Her interests are to further her own ego.
(BUT WAIT!! THAT’S NOT HER BABY!!!! – Zython, Enlightened Liberal, other dolts like those two)
So the poor Dallas mother who’s baby she kidnapped has no rights? Finders keepers?
Zython, I have NO idea what you mean by that South Carolina reference.
*sigh* I have to spell out EVERYTHING for you people. My point was, what makes red states so special that they have the right to deny women control over their own bodies?
“I find it appalling — if I read Palin’s position accurately — that abortion would not be allowed if a child or woman was raped or incested, but only if “the mother’s health is affected.”
RAPE AND INCEST DON’T AFFECT A WOMAN’S HEALTH, YOU SAY???”
Her position on abortion is extreme. To the right of 70% to 90% of the population, and not enough people know.
Oliver, you like Obama, have taken the high road on this.
My sister became pregnant with her Mexican-American boyfriend at 16, (we’re ‘white’) and my other sister became pregnant with her African-American boyfriend at 17. Hell, my dad was only slightly more liberal than ‘archie bunker’ (back in the late 60’s ‘all in the family) but he did ok by them. Said, don’t get married ’til after the kid’s born so my insurance will pay for it. They got married, one marriage lasted ’til now and both kids are upstanding citizens doing fine.
However, it’s unrealistic that the Palin’s should have tried to keep both pregnancies out of the limelight ’til now. It also seems insensitive that she’d take on the VP contest in midst of some family turmoil when she hasn’t even mastered the governorship yet. (only 20 months and she doesn’t even know the US constitution or much US history apparently)
and it’s the Republican hypocrisy that’s so revealing with Sarah Palin’s arrogance of bearing.
no one’s defending Edwards here. He lost. I always suspected him as being a phony. He didn’t help Kerry in the least did he?
The high-minded principles hare are SO inspiring. Lessons I have learned from this thread:
– Sarah Palin forfeited her minor daughter’s right to privacy by choosing to run for vice president, so it’s all right for us to use the daughter to attack the mother.
– Bristol Palin, a 17-year-old girl, should be held to the very same standard as John Edwards when it comes to public exposure of their failings.
– By choosing to declare candidates’ families, especially minor children, off limits for political attacks, Barack Obama has proven himself hopelessly naive and out of touch and unworthy of the support of such fine, upstanding, moral, principled people such as post here.
– People who oppose abortion have no business even recognizing that the law currently says that it is legal, and should not make public statements that acknowledge that reality. Instead, they should talk and act as if it was illegal, as if their wishes had the force of law, because to recognize that the right to have an abortion is tantamount to recognizing that it is moral as well.
Did I miss anything? I’d hate for my education to be incomplete.
J.
You had an education? Couldn’t tell.
Thank you, Jay Tea, for that summary of the liberal posts on this thread. And by “summary”, I mean “deliberate misstatement.”
“Did I miss anything?”
Jay Tea… Lying or stupid?
You be the judge.
Jay Tea, you’re such a hypocrite. Let’s see how Republicans treat the private lives of Democrats. Blue Dress? Two years of a special prosecutor who was supposed to be inspecting a Savings and Loan deal (whitewater) who then delved into an personal private affair between adults and then we and our kids had to subjected to 2 years of Republican-broadcast Porn about Clinton?
That two years of Porn on the Media opened up the dialog didn’t it? The Phony Holier than Thou attitude of people like Palin surely needs to be examined in such a light. She’s against public support for contraception, opposes sexual education, and wants Religious dogma to be taught in schools. You bet her parenting needs to be spotlighted.
However as Oliver has shown, there are lots of other more pertinent things to examine. McCain probably picked Sarah Palin in order to entertain and distract us from the REAL damage Republicans have done to America. Perhaps a very clever distraction?
datadave, I missed the part where Ken Starr took a deposition from Chelsea Clinton.
The only way to attack Sarah Palin on this is by going through her daughter. By shouting from the rooftops the intimate details of a seventeen-year-old girl who is going through what has to be the toughest time of her life.
And I see the standard pack of howling gibbons here have absolutely no problem doing that.
Channeling my inner Strowbridge… “you fucking subhumans make me sick.”
Sorry it’s probably not up to his usual vitriol, but he’s got far more practice at it than I do.
J.
“Jay Tea… Lying or stupid?”
OR stupid? It can’t be both?
Keep up the debate…but you don’t see Obama or Biden biting on this one do you? We, the public, can say what we want as Sarah’s held herself up as a moral compass condemning those who are proChoice as lesser parents. Maybe it’s obviously the opposite. Chelsea was well educated and cared for. I am not sure I can say the same for Sarah’s family. And she could be President dictating how we live our lives. Giving us Barracuda Talk about abortion as a sin and how we should eliminate contraception and sex education.
But, as you persist in focusing on her family…..it is perhaps a Rovian ploy to keep us from discussing what the McCain/Palin administration would do for our paychecks, our future..(like having a couple of Rapture Believers with fingers on the nuclear option against Russia for example….seems she has Experience with Russians off the Coast of Alaska according to Cindy McCain).
eh? Once again Oliver and Obama take us to the High Road. We’re just typing otherwise. Gotta go to work.
On another thread let’s talk about the Bush/McCain economic policies will ya?
Jay Tea,
Sarah, the Bitch of a Mother, threw her daughter in front of her as a shield to the attacked about her incredulous story about water breaking in Texas, passing by numerous Texas hospitals, boarding a plane disgusing that she was pregnant and in labor, passing by numerous Alaskan hospital driving 45 minutes to Wasilla, where her old friend, Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson, delivered baby Trig.
She could have squashed everything by bring Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson to take a oath in public that the mother of the child she delivered was 44 year old Sarah Palin, end of story.
Why didn’t she bring out an adult, Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson instead of her seventeen year old daughter. Because she was using the shield of her daughter’s youth and the fact that she was a minor and her daughter’s privacy should be protected.
How is she not worst than a terrorist using a human shield?
Ahhhh…more leftist beliefs coming to light.
Fine, only leftists would protect their child with their life. I would not take any job or any amount of money that would in any way subject my daughter to public scrutiny.
I love my daughter more than I love myself and if that makes me leftist – I on way as left as possible for the ones I love.
I didn’t think it was possible, but juhar makes my points for me better than I thought they could be.
“Sarah, the Bitch of a Mother…”
“She could have squashed everything by bring Dr. Cathy Baldwin-Johnson to take a oath in public that the mother of the child she delivered was 44 year old Sarah Palin, end of story.”
Oh, bullshit. That wouldn’t have stopped anything. NOTHING would kill this story short of something even more sordid. And look — instead of a possible fake pregnancy covering for a teen pregnancy (gee, I guess I wasn’t the only one watching “Desperate Housewives” last season), here’s a REAL LIVE TEEN PREGNANCY!!!!!
You want an example? Fine. “OF COURSE the doctor is lying to cover for Palin. Isn’t this the same doctor who told her it would be OK to fly home from Texas? Either she’s covering for her incompetence in advising that, OR she knew there was no real pregnancy to risk!”
This is all about one thing: winning in November. If there was a shred of honesty among those glorying in the Palin family’s situation, they’d admit it. But honesty and decency go hand-in-hand, and the latter has already been shown to be absent.
J.
JWG
Who are you anyway?
Who are you to categorize people and human emotions and put your labels on them as if you are “Jehovah W. God.”
You need to get over yourself.
Juhar part 1:
Juhar part 2:
Wow.
And the gender card appears again.
How is she not worst than a terrorist using a human shield?
Well a terrorist is going to get somebody blowed up or shot. Let’s watch the hyperbole here.
Do we even know for sure whether Bristol gave momma the go-ahead to make her pregnancy public? Are we right to assume either way? If she did, does that kabash the whole ‘She used her as a human shield’ idea? If not, why not?
Evidently, Enlightened “casting couch” liberal would yell “race card” if someone condemned the use of a racial epithet. What a pathetic POS you are.
Songbird/Dingo ‘08!
The story about Bristol’s 5-,month pregnancy sure seems to tie off the rumor about Sarah faking her own pregnancy. It’s remarkable what a crack team of McCain legal experts can cook up in a couple of days up in Alaska.