Palin, who portrays herself as a fiscal conservative, racked up nearly $20 million in long-term debt as mayor of the tiny town of Wasilla — that amounts to $3,000 per resident.
Related
Documents Prove Again That Sarah Palin Was an Earmark Queen
Hiding Sarah
The Moron Sarah Palin Rears Her Head Again
Barry and his pal Ayers squandered motre than $160 million six year long Chicago Annenberg Challenge.
“being white is all the experience you need”-GOP
“Having a Y chromosome is all the experience you need” Democrat Party
Gee, this is easy…and fun!
But back to the main point….long term debt is not a bad thing in and of itself.
How do we (well, us rich republicans here) pay for our houses? Long term debt.
How do governments pay for schools? Long term debt
How do we build roads? Long term debt
How do we build hospitals? Long term debt
Solar power, wind power, geothermal power, carbon credits, Al Gore’s Giant Houseboat?
Long term debt (ok, I suppose the Goracle MAY have paid cash for the house boat, after all he is making a killing selling carbon indulgences to the soft-headed amongst you…)
‘Having a Y chromosome is all the experience you’ Democrat Party”
Gee, this is easy…and fun!”
And innacurate (Mondale-Ferrero in ‘84)!
Whoops, forgot to include the word “need” in what I quoted and the word is spelled “inaccurate”.
How do we (well, us rich republicans here) pay for our houses? Long term debt.
How do governments pay for schools? Long term debt
How do we build roads? Long term debt
How do we build hospitals? Long term debt
How do we pay 1.6 million for 100K land? Long term debt.
Duh, you do have a point that debt financing plays a huge role in our economy, but this was a case of screwing the pooch. Badly.
A simple read of the article demonstrates that A) It wasn’t all that simple and B)”That’s not a bad deal. Lundgren had valued the property at about $2.4 million, said Greg Miller, the attorney with Birch, Horton, Bittner and Cherot who has been arguing the case on behalf of the City of Wasilla since 2005.”
Soooo, perhaps that pooch is a bit unscrewed eh?
But more important, that wasn’t the argument that Oliver was making, he was trying to paint Gov Palin as a bad chief executive because she had long term debt, something that you agree is ridiculous.
Again, Oliver is flinging poo and hoping against all hope that some will stick. Pretty much par for the course around here.
OBTW,
Can anyone demonstrate The Obama managing an economy, anywhere? I mean, I am guessing that Michelle is balancing the checkbook in that household eh ?
At least we can argue about Gov Palin’s EXECUTIVE experience here, The Obama giving us the advantage of having NO EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE, which of course cuts down nicely on any criticism….
A lot of money raised by municipal governments is in the form of bonds that are held by common citizens as investments. So the interest on this “long term debt” ends up going into the college, retirement, and rainy-day funds of regular people. Furthermore, in the case of a city, the bonds are quite often sold following a ballot referendum by which the citizens agree to the sale. This is neither good nor bad, but the way government debt (including the U.S. Federal Government) is discussed usually makes it sound like the government just took out a loan and is making monthly payments to a bank.
The 2009 budget of Wasilla is $30M. So taking on $20M in debt is roughly equivalent to someone who makes $60,000 a year taking out a loan for $40,000…maybe for a home addition, for example.
duh, I love hearing the phrase, “it’s not that simple” coming from a Republican’s mouth. Hilarious. Let’s hear about the nuance, shall we?
Meanwhile, there’s much more important things going on.
This one is gonna be bad folks. If you or any of your relatives are anywhere near the Gulf Coast, Please: get out now.
I cannot believe that we are here talking about the finances of the village of Wasilla, AK. This is the level of discourse that the Republicans force us to consider.
What does she know about the constitution? What does she know about the branches of government or the separation of power? Can she name any of the agencies the executive branch is supposed to manage? Can she name a single world leader currently in power? How will our allies look upon this flyweight?
McCain might as well have just taken a dump in the middle of White House floor. They would be equally prepared for the office of Vice President.
I bet she knows the leader of Canada. Do you without looking it up?
JWG, there are really two points here:
1) if you want to get into a Jeopardy contest about world leaders, politics and history, I beg of you, make that call. I would love to wipe the floor with another ignorant Republican.
2) I am not running for VP but frankly do have more executive experience.
Amazing, after this bit of news it’s a wonder that Palin still got elected governor in Alaska and has an 80% approval rating there. Either that or OW is really reaching for the goalposts with this one.
But more important, that wasn’t the argument that Oliver was making, he was trying to paint Gov Palin as a bad chief executive because she had long term debt, something that you agree is ridiculous.
No, I meant that debt financing can be good, but in this case, this was just wasting money.
At least we can argue about Gov Palin’s EXECUTIVE experience here, The Obama giving us the advantage of having NO EXECUTIVE EXPERIENCE, which of course cuts down nicely on any criticism….
1. This is funny, how first, it was about “experience”, then it’s “executive experience”, talk about moving the goalposts.
2. I’d rather take someone with little experience, than someone who has experience in screwing things up.
This is the level of discourse that the Republicans force us to consider.
Excuse me? Which Republican brought up the subject?
You asked a question and I gave the answer. You started the contest and got it thrown back in your face. Too bad.
its always been about executive experience, The Obama would like to be chief executive of a country and we don’t have evidence that he has ever been personally responsible for anything…
I believe Palin might also have a passing familiarity with the leaders of Russia, whose coast is within 35 miles of her own state…
Oh, and she’s also chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission, which has affiliates in Canada, Egypt, Georgia (the nation currently being crushed by Russia, not the state of Zell Miller), and Venezuela.
If she’s held a single meeting of that group, it would be one more than Obama has held of his Senate Subcommittee on Europe that he chairs.
J.
Venezuela? OMG! She’s a demislamunistofascist!
Why is it not surprising that a Republican racked up debt and ran deficit spending? Isn’t that the mantra of the party?
And who actually believes that a “hockey mom” has more foreign affairs experience than Obama? Seriously? You’re comparing someone who aspired to be an ESPN sports reporter to a law professor? If she did meet with a Canadian, she probably talked about the NHL.
McCain is obviously a dirty old man. Heck, she’s a babe. I don’t blame him.
So am I to understand that the Republican qualifications for Vice President is to learn the location of the world nations and know the names of the world leaders. That’s it. I think a lot of the kids on “Do You Know More Than a Fifth Grader” qualify to be on the Republican ticket as a Vice President running mate to grandfather John.
I bet she knows the leader of Canada. Do you without looking it up?
Ben Harper?
(I know it’s Stephen Harper and he might not be PM for much longer.)
its always been about executive experience, The Obama would like to be chief executive of a country and we don’t have evidence that he has ever been personally responsible for anything…
And what executive experience does Cranky McSame have?
I believe Palin might also have a passing familiarity with the leaders of Russia, whose coast is within 35 miles of her own state…
Going all Faux Noise on us now? Putin must be laughing his ass off right now.
Oh, and she’s also chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission, which has affiliates in Canada, Egypt, Georgia (the nation currently being crushed by Russia, not the state of Zell Miller), and Venezuela.
Your point? She was the chair. She isn’t anymore. She never took a foreign trip in that role. In fact she only got a passport last year due to her trip to Kuwait(so she didn’t even go to Iraq).
I believe Palin might also have a passing familiarity with the leaders of Russia, whose coast is within 35 miles of her own state…
Oh, come on Jay Tea. Even your usual horribly wrong positions are better argued than that. You guys picked an attractive Harriet Miers, someone without the depth and breadth of knowledge for the job chosen because she appeals to the religious far right Republican base.
Senator Obama does not have a lot of Washington experience, but did and does have the judgment so many of the old hands in D.C. don’t. If something were to happen to happen to him, Joe Biden is more than capable of being commander-in-chief.
This kind of pick for McCain shows us once again his impulse control problem that would make him a lousy preaident, and if something were to happen to him, we don’t even know if Palin knows what the job entails.
So am I to understand that the Republican qualifications for Vice President is to learn the location of the world nations and know the names of the world leaders.
Republican qualifications? If McCain had named a mangy beagle as his running mate, the republican dead-enders would be here telling us that the ability to lick one’s own balls is an indispensable qualification for president, and the fact that Obama cannot lick his own balls (or at least refuses to do so in public) means that he is obviously unfit for the position.
It’s all about winning for these guys. Truth, consistency, integrity, country be damned.
I believe Palin might also have a passing familiarity with the leaders of Russia, whose coast is within 35 miles of her own state…
Well sure! There was that one time when ol’ Pooty Poot stopped in for mooseburgers at the Wasilla volunteer fire department!
its always been about executive experience,
No it hasn’t.
A comment from swampland–
Rove has some harsh words for McCain and Palin. Oh wait.
“I think [Obama's] going to make an intensely political choice, not a governing choice,” Rove said. “He’s going to view this through the prism of a candidate, not through the prism of president; that is to say, he’s going to pick somebody that he thinks will on the margin help him in a state like Indiana or Missouri or Virginia. He’s not going to be thinking big and broad about the responsibilities of president.”
Rove singled out Virginia governor Tim Kaine, also a Face The Nation guest, as an example of such a pick.
“With all due respect again to Governor Kaine, he’s been a governor for three years, he’s been able but undistinguished,” Rove said. “I don’t think people could really name a big, important thing that he’s done. He was mayor of the 105th largest city in America.”
Calvin: McCain served as commanding officer of a Navy training squadron and led it to win its very first Meritorious Unit Commendation — which gives him one year more in an executive, leadership position than Obama.
Oh, I’m sorry, we’re using derogatory nicknames in this little sub-chat, so that would be “Obambi” or “Obamassiah.”
And Oliver, YOU come on. Unlike you, I live in a state that borders Canada, and every now and then our governor has to deal directly with either the Quebecois or Canadian government. THey’ve also made trips with trade delegations to Canada. And New Hampshire has a TINY border with Canada, not a couple thousand miles’ worth. Also, considering that the only land lines of communication between Canada and the rest of the US go through Canada, it’s only logical for the governor of Alaska to have at least a courteous passing familiarity with Canadian officials.
As far as Russia goes… take a look at a map. The only sea access to Alaska’s northern half is through the Bering Strait, and that’s only accessible part of the year. Again, common sense dictates that Alaska’s governor would occasionally glance at a map and find it prudent to know what’s going on with the nation just on the other side of that body of water/ice.
And while this one is a bit of a stretch, recent events show it to not be completely unthinkable: Russia looks like it’s trying to reassemble its imperial territory (witness their assault on Georgia, their attempts to intimidate Poland and the rest of Eastern Europe, and their brutal suppression of Chechnya). The United States bought Alaska from Russia. And ultra-nationalist leader Vladimir Zhirinovsky has called for the return of Alaska to Russia — I remember the pictures of him with his map of “Greater Russia” showing Alaska back in Russian hands.
If I can remember that, I’m sure a lot of Alaskans just might, too.
But as I recall, the question was whether or not Palin could name the leader of at least one foreign country. I think it’s pretty clear that the answer to that is highly likely yes to at least two — Canada and Russia.
And that would be based on the one thing she alone brings to the national ticket: political experience in an executive position.
Oh, and Oliver, the “Harriet Myers” thing ought to be beneath you. It was the outpouring of contempt from the Right over the Myers nomination that got that one withdrawn, and I have no problems saying I was one of many, many people who opposed that one.
Palin has an actual record of accomplishments, that she’s used her office to achieve — unlike Obama, who ran for a six-year term in the Senate and started his presidential bid after one of them.
OK, what’s the next stupid point that needs to be batted down?
J.
Jay Tea, if McCain did such a great job with that squadron in Jacksonville, as you keep insisting, why didn’t he get that promotion to Admiral he so desperately wanted? I don’t have anything up my sleeve, just asking the question. Because it is my understanding that, in the Navy, if you don’t get promoted, you get forced out. Which happened to McCain.
Wilbur, your observation about a beagle as McCain’s running mate was too funny!
“OK, what’s the next stupid point that needs to be batted down?”
Ah, yes, Jay Tea, you’re doing God’s work. After reading your posts, full of rapier wit and impeccable logic, hundreds of rabid lefties find themselves stunned. “Oh my God,” they are saying to themselves. “What the hell was I thinking? I’ve been wrong all along! If only I had discovered Jay Tea’s political wisdom before, I wouldn’t have espoused these ridiculous bleeding-heart positions all these years!”
So, I’m sure I speak for all fomerly liberal Americans when I say, “Thank you, Jay Tea, for showing us the error of our ways.”
I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m ROFLMAO reading these Republicans trying to twist Palin’s “resume” into something that shows any kind of interest or experience with world affairs.
On the other hand, Dan Quayle is looking quite good right now.
I don’t want to be overconfident. We should remember that the Bush/Quayle ticket WON in 1988.
True, true. Times are different now though. And, as our Republican fellow Americans might remind us, Dan Quayle had NO executive experience at the time he was selected VP candidate.
Hey, Oliver, you’ve got a good website for commenters going here including a few persistant Republcans. That’s good! Debate is a good thing.
Now, I think this attack on Sarah Palin might not be appropriate as many communities have to pass bonds and be in debt to finance needed facilities. Bond issues are almost universal for school building and thus every town or city is indebted to some extent.
But it does show inconsistency in that she’s an antiTAX, pro-Oil revenue Alaskan. Alaskan’s practically live off big Oil. Her husband does p/t work for BP. Rebates are given all Alaskans….and to top it off the Federal outlays are skewed towards Alaskans more than any other citizen of any other state. This puts Alaskan reality in a different perspective than us in larger populated states w/o the massive landmass they have. (I had relatives there and you could literally ‘live off the land’ at months at a time w/o seeing anyone…or paying taxes.) Military expenditures are also a big facet in a small economy there. Govt. supports the Alaskan economy more than any other. So she’s a hypocrite on cutting taxes…she’s a bit unrealistic about what the rest of America needs although probably a fresh face of Republicanism in Alaska.
Barry squanders 8 times more money than Oliver suggests Palin did and…crickets.
OK, what’s the next stupid point that needs to be batted down?
yeah, el stupidio, you can’t refrain from the usual nasty Republican talking points. Obama’s overcome racial stereotypes, single parenting, relative poverty and never came close to winning a beauty contest. He’s well educated in the top universities, acquired major reputations as writer, educator, politician including losing overwhelmingly in the initial electorial debut against Bobby Rush. (Republicans always ignore his 20 years of experience in the big second city while ms. palin was still running for beauty contests_).
Let’s talk about McCain and Cindy’s attachment to Keating’s money. He was the only Senator actually with Money to be gained from her assets invested with Keating. And yet Bob Bennett, the official investigator, gave him a pass on that. Of course, major insider Bennett is a republican rainmaker, the ultimate insider. This is while Obama was a community organizer helping both white and black workers regain lost jobs and gain a chance at the American dream. The obscenely inherited wealthy Cindy McCain with Charles Keating’s unregulated shenanighans which cost the American taxpayer billions (the same Cindy who broke up McCain’s first marriage as McCain was put off with his first wife’s injuries from a car accident).
McCain and Keating had become personal friends following their initial contacts in 1981.[8] Between 1982 and 1987, McCain had received $112,000 in political contributions from Keating and his associates.[14] In addition, McCain’s wife Cindy McCain and her father Jim Hensley had invested $359,100 in a Keating shopping center in April 1986, a year before McCain met with the regulators. McCain, his family, and their baby-sitter had made nine trips at Keating’s expense, sometimes aboard Keating’s jet. Three of the trips were made during vacations to Keating’s opulent Bahamas retreat at Cat Cay. McCain did not pay Keating (in the amount of $13,433) for some of the trips until years after they were taken, when he learned that Keating was in trouble over Lincoln.[6][15]
from wiki (to be sure, McCain also was the one to curtail his relationship w/ Keating first of the Keating 5. IMO, I think others were far more guilty in the S and L fiasco esp. President Reagan’s deregulation of the S and Ls (and even chuck shumer of ny btw_). The 5 mostly honorable Senators were ‘thrown under the bus’ to take the heat of what conservatives in general had caused in their beliefs in deregulation of the financial markets. )
However, by McCain’s own admission he has a longing to be with the high-rollers of finance…witness his second marriage that ala Senataor Kerry is used to finance his campaigns….
Obama married for love, not for money. A beautiful First Family. Can’t wait to see them in the White House.
And Sarah Palin will pale in comparison with the public’s exposure to her ill informed giggles and oblivious provincialism.
I don’t want to be overconfident. We should remember that the Bush/Quayle ticket WON in 1988.
Obama ain’t Dukakis, and Bush II ain’t Reagan, and McCain ain’t Bush I, and Palin ain’t even Quayle, but you’re right that overconfidence is not a good thing. Never underestimate the damage to the political process that the republican Rovian ratfucking machine is capable of engineering. Never underestimate the investment the bobbleheaded punditocracy has in making McCain look – against all evidence – like a serious statesman. Don’t sit there chuckling at your Sunday news shows while all the Brookses and Grahamses assure you with their shit-eating grins that yes, living 600 miles from the cold nose of Siberia does make you ready to take on the world’s problems – get out there and fight!
Bruce, sounds like you oughta have an issue with z_adura, who first inquired:
What does she know about the constitution? What does she know about the branches of government or the separation of power? Can she name any of the agencies the executive branch is supposed to manage? Can she name a single world leader currently in power? How will our allies look upon this flyweight?
Well, to address the other points: she knows enough about the Constitution to know that the vice-presidency means almost NOTHING (”bucket of warm spit” is a common phrase) unless the president chooses to entrust the veep with power and authority, and said she wouldn’t be interested in it without those reassurances months and months ago. She knows about the branches of government and separation of power because Alaska, like the other states, parallels the federal system of three branches and heads one while dealing with the other two. She is probably intimately familiar with several of the branches of the federal executive; having a very, very long foreign border means State, Commerce, and ICE have presences, and Interior and Defense own large portions of her state. We already batted around naming world leaders, and how will our allies view her? With the respect she and the office are due, I trust.
And if not, she can take them on that time-honored tradition of the vice-presidential hunting party. Ms. Palin is an accomplished hunter, and uses weapons considerably more potent than a shotgun filled with birdshot.
Seriously… women leaders shouldn’t be that much of a problem. Gandhi, Thatcher, Bhutto, Merkel, Meir… the precedent has been set, the taboo broken. They can deal with it and get over it, or not. I don’t recall ever giving any other nation veto power over who we elect, and don’t feel any particular compunction to start now.
J.
correction: bob s. bennett is a ‘democrat’, his brother ‘bill bennett’ is a ‘republican’. none the less, a powerfull inside-the-beltway family …
datadave spouts:
Obama’s overcome racial stereotypes, single parenting, relative poverty and never came close to winning a beauty contest. He’s well educated in the top universities, acquired major reputations as writer, educator, politician including losing overwhelmingly in the initial electorial debut against Bobby Rush. (Republicans always ignore his 20 years of experience in the big second city while ms. palin was still running for beauty contests_).
Yeah, but what has he DONE with all that? Where are his list of accomplishments?
He’s a law professor who wrote NO scholarly articles.
He’s a state senator with NO major legislative record.
He’s a first-term senator who started running for president within a year or so into his six-year term.
“He married for love” and “has a beautiful family?” I think it was George Carlin who commented on politicians posing with their wives and children — “Hey, great! His dick works! I’ll vote for him!”
He rose to power and prominence in Chicago, one of the most corrupt cities in the country (although New Orleans might give it a run for its money) and did SQUAT about reforming or cleaning up things. He ran for the Senate on an implicit promise — “elect me, and I’ll serve you for six years” — and tossed that one right out the window barely a year later. And when asked to speak without a telepromter, goes right off the rails in a way that makes Dan Quayle look like Jack Kennedy.
Yeah, he’s got a great resume’. Big whoop. I feel better with someone who’s DONE things in their life, who’s made tough decisions and taken strong, principled stands and faced adversity AND STILL ACHIEVED THINGS, not merely weathered them.
J.
Jay Tea, I don’t know why you addressed your post to me, and then quibbled with z_adura, but whatever.
Now please tell me: Why, if McCain did such a bang-up job in his last assignment in Jacksonville, wasn’t he promoted? Why was he forced out? Could it be that it was because his Dad wasn’t around to rub interference for him anymore? Is that why he needed a new sugardaddy in the form of Jim Hensley?
Oh, and in the debates, we’ll see which candidate goes “off the rails”.
He wasn’t forced out. He wasn’t on active duty anymore, so he couldn’t be promoted.
Another liberal canard shot down…
“McCain decided to leave the Navy. It was doubtful whether he would ever be promoted to the rank of full admiral, as he had poor annual physicals and had been given no major sea command.[62] His chances of being promoted to rear admiral were better, but McCain declined that prospect, as he had already made plans to run for Congress and said he could “do more good there.”[63]”
Wikipedia, ref 63 is the New York Times
“McCain decided to leave the Navy” (According to McCain.)
“His chances of being promoted to rear admiral were better, but McCain declined that prospect…” (According to McCain.)
See, duh, you say at first that he “couldn’t be promoted” because he “wasn’t on active duty”. Then, just THREE SENTENCES LATER, you say “his chances of being promoted to rear admiral were better.”
Which is it?
Another liberal canard (not yet) shot down. And I was asking Jay Tea. What are you guys, joined at the hip?
Bruce, I’m sorry, but you are an idiot. And let me guess, you never spent any time in the military?
I am speaking after the fact (of his leaving the navy), the ARTICLE is speaking as McCain is considering leaving the navy.
You get in a battle of wits Bruce, and you don’t bring a weapon…..
Bruce, I was just trying to give an accurate account of how things developed, for those too dense to actually read the thread of comments.
z_adura, Aug 30th, 2008 at 6:51 pm:
What does she know about the constitution? What does she know about the branches of government or the separation of power? Can she name any of the agencies the executive branch is supposed to manage? Can she name a single world leader currently in power? How will our allies look upon this flyweight?
This was answered several times, including me at Aug 31st, 2008 at 4:44 am, where I asked, rhetorically, “OK, what’s the next stupid point that needs to be batted down?”
You seemed to take exception at that, so I thought I would point out that it was z_adura’s “stupid point” that I was answering. So if you don’t like my condescending answer to his stupid question, then you probably should take exception to the stupid question that triggered it.
Unless, of course, you think z_adura’s questions were not actually stupid ones, easily batted down with the slightest effort…
J.
You got me there, duh. No, I never served. I was one of those dirty hippies who protested the Vietnam War, although I try not to see the world through that prism 40 years later.
And I did say I had nothing up my sleeve, just asking the question. Of Jay Tea. What are you, his research assistant? And you still have nothing but McCain’s word that he WASN’T forced out.
I must say it cuts me to the quick to be called an idiot by a guy named duh.
It shouldn’t bother you a bit to be called an idiot by the likes of me. However, you should be very concerned that you have DEMONSTRATED yourself to be an idiot.
But you make a great point. All we have is McCains word he wasn’t forced out. But it seems to me the onus is on you to PROVE he was forced out. Currently people aren’t “forced out” when they fail to make Flag Rank, they simply hang out until they retire, which does have some age limits, limits that McCain never reached.
Should you require further evidence of this, please check this outstanding sophoric, the Navy BUPERS website.
http://www.npc.navy.mil/Npc/Templates/FourColumnSummary.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID={C532B89A-CED8-4CF6-97F1-7BE4AC0B3AA2}&NRORIGINALURL=/ReferenceLibrary/Instructions/BUPERSInstructions/&NRCACHEHINT=Guest
“Yeah, but what has he DONE with all that? Where are his list of accomplishments?”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×4678548
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×4027627
In other words, Jay Tea, one Obama supporter fumbles a question on Hardball and suddenly it’s no longer you’re responsibility to actually investigate Obama’s record. All you have to do is repeat that Obama has no accomplishments or that he hadn’t done anything with the opportunities, which you apparently think, we’re just handed to him because he’s such a nice guy.
I shouldn’t expect anything less. Conservative’s remain deliberately ignorant of Obama’s record so they keep repeating the same soundbites over and over that Obama has no record.
Sure he may have been lawyer, but what did he do as a lawyer? Shit, Jay Tea, WTF do you think he did as a lawyer? He did lawyer shit.
Whether or not Obama wrote any scholarly articles on the law, I don’t know, but if he didn’t that’s no reason to say he didn’t didn’t DO anything when he was a senior lecturer at UofC. You know what he probably doing while he was there? How about fucking teaching his classes!
There are research oriented institutions and professors and their are teaching institutions and professors. Obama clearly had other goals in mind besides becoming a career academic. If you want to be a career academic you have published scholarly articles. If you don’t, you don’t. At the same time:
The other links above cover Obama’s legislative record.
Now will you continue to suggest that Obama has “done nothing” or will you now say he has not “done enough”? Or, as I suspect, will just turn a blind eye to anything presented to you about Obama’s record so you can maintain the ignorance conservatives so covet because it keeps them from having to actually think?
Bruce, I didn’t say anything about the circumstances of McCain’s honorable retirement from the Navy. So I’m going to ignore your trying to rope me into it.
Fafaroo, two things: first, you’re actually DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND as a source of information? Just how nucking futs are you?
Second, according to DU, he sat on committees, took trips, and put his name on legislation with other Senators. Big whoop. Not a single citation where he actually took leadership on an issue.
Third, I rather like this one:
Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said “shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans.”
Obama thought it was a good idea to pad veterans’ benefits on a program intended to help poor children get health insurance? That’s crass politics at best.
Fourth, DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND? You GOTTA be shitting me.
Fifth, I’ll give Obama credit for the videotaping police questioning in capital cases law. That is a damned good law, and it’s one accomplishment that he ought to be touting at every opportunity. I suspect he doesn’t, though, because it leads to the very logical questions of “what did you do before then, and what have you done since?”
Back to the actual law: I would love to see that law passed in all 50 states and on the federal level.
Sixth, DU?
Oh, and no, I don’t think that “Obama has no accomplishments or that he hadn’t done anything with the opportunities, which you apparently think, we’re just handed to him because he’s such a nice guy.” I think that he’s been handed those opportunities because he is good-looking, has a very unusual and compelling personal story, and gives great speeches when he has a teleprompter handy.
He’s all style and very little substance — and that is apparently all that is needed for the Democratic party these days.
J.
And I give McCain credit for being a POW, although his tiresome habit of bringing it up at every opportunity might lead one to the question of “what did you do before then, and what have you done since?”
While I might be wrong about McCain’s naval career, I still might not let it go. After all, just because the US Navy gives you medals and awards, that doesn’t mean you earned them, right? We learned how to play this game in 2004. So, enjoy, Republicans. As ye sow, so shall ye reap.
Obama thought it was a good idea to pad veterans’ benefits on a program intended to help poor children get health insurance? That’s crass politics at best.
Translation: I hate veterans and children.
He’s all style and very little substance — and that is apparently all that is needed for the Democratic party these days.
Yeah, style over substance, that’s never worked before.
Fourth, DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND? You GOTTA be shitting me.
You don’t hear me whining when you r-tards cite TNR, WND, and Powerline.
Jay (Tea), I asked this before, and you ran with your tail between your legs, so I’ll ask it again. Can you name one major accomplishment Bush made as governor? Before you answer, no, killing retarded people doesn’t count.
Obama thought it was a good idea to pad veterans’ benefits on a program intended to help poor children get health insurance? That’s crass politics at best.
Translation: I hate veterans and children.
Fourth, DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND? You GOTTA be shitting me.
You don’t hear me whining when you r-tards cite TNR, WND, and Powerline.
Jay (Tea), I asked this before, and you ran with your tail between your legs, so I’ll ask it again. Can you name one major accomplishment Bush made as governor? Before you answer, no, killing retarded people doesn’t count.
“First, you’re actually DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND as a source of information? Just how nucking futs are you?”
Is any of the information about Obama posted at those links untrue? Yes or no?
And, Jay Tea, please tell me five things that you think should be at the top of McCain’s list of accomplishments. I;d love hear ‘em.
(and no, being a POW doesn’t count as an accomplishment.)
Sounds like a fair challenge, fafaroo. And while I disagree with the premise of your rider — it wasn’t that he was a POW, but how he conducted himself that is relevant — I’ll abide by it and skip it.
1) Bronze Star For Valor, Navy pilot:
“Although his aircraft was severely damaged, he continued his bomb delivery pass and released his bombs on the target. When the aircraft would not recover from the dive, Commander McCain was forced to eject over the target.”
His plane could have blown up or spun out of control at any instant after being struck by that anti-aircraft missile, but he kept on target and completed his bombing run before taking any action that would save his own life.
2) Took command of a mediocre-at-best training squadron and led it to earn its very first Meritorious Unit Citation.
3) Was a key figure in finally normalizing diplomatic relations with Vietnam in the 1990’s. Similar to how “only Nixon could go to China,” his status as a former POW gave draft-evading Bill Clinton the political cover he needed to achieve the right thing and re-establish relations.
4) Consistently refused to accept any “earmarks” for Arizona, and has been a leader in trying to put an end to that corrupt practice.
5) Has fought political corruption (possibly motivated by his near-brush with the law over the Keating scandal), including (unfortunately) the well-intentioned but horribly miswritten McCain-Feingold Law.
6) Was on record calling for added troops in Iraq long before the term “surge” was first applied.
7) Saw and stated that he was concerned about Vladimir Putin and a resurgent Russia attempting to re-establish its hegemony.
Has shown, repeatedly, that he is a firm believer in bipartisanship and “reaching across the aisle” on such key issues as judicial appointments (he voted for Clinton’s nominees even though he disagreed with them, saying that the President has the right to name those he wants as long as they are qualified, later with the “Gang of Fourteen” to extend the courtesy to Bush), campaign finance reform, re-establishing relations with Vietnam, and a host of other issues.
9) It was under his chairmanship that the Senate Indian Affairs Committee helped expose the corruption of the Jack Abramoff scandal.
10) Has completely owned up to his failures and shortcomings in his life, and offers no excuses or attempts to pass on the blame. He is the best source for information on his poor academic record at Annapolis, wildcatting around before his Vietnam assignment, cheating on and divorcing his wife after his return, and numerous other failings that he freely acknowledges and discusses what finally got him to get his act together.
There. That’s your five, and five more.
By the way, McCain was not my first choice for support. He wasn’t even on my top three list — I was going Thompson, Romney, Giuliani. At one point, I even put him and Obama on the same level of consideration.
But as my preferred candidates fell by the wayside, and I learned more and more about Obama, I fell into the “oh, fuck it — McCain” kind of support. I still found myself feeling extremely lackluster — right up until he chose Palin.
As I’ve noted several times, Palin actually embodies a lot of the things Obama claims to represent. In other words, Obama’s talked the talk — she’s walked that walk. And that just KILLS so many Obamabots.
J.
Damn, I hate smileys. That one should be an “8″ and a closed-parenthesis.
J.
I have a feeling that nearly all of the support for your 4th choice candidate is of the “oh, fuck it–McCain” variety.
Here’s hoping for a cold, drizzly rain throughout the South on Election Day!
By the way, the “fuck it — McCain!” is from Jackie and Dunlap at http://www.redstateupdate.com/ — two of the best political commentators around.
And yeah, I was glad to back (and vote for) Thompson, thought Romney and Giuliani could do a good job, and was very lackluster about any others — but decided very quickly that Huckabee, Kucinich, Paul, and Clinton would be disasters. As things developed, Obama went down and Clinton went up, while McCain rose simply through attrition — all the ones above him bailed out.
Palin, though… her, I like.
J.
Sarah Palin mismanaged the City of Wasilla during the tenture as a two term Mayor. She hired Republican Party associates and relatives to staff the departments vacated by the former administration employees she fired. Mayor Palin mishandled the land acquisition for the Wasilla Sports Complex costing the taxpapers of Wasilla millions more (2 million and counting more ever day).
Is this really the best we can do in nominating a potential President of the United States ? A woman who’s profession skills are being a basketball player, a beauity queen and Mayor of Wasilla a town of 5,000. She was in over-her-head as Mayor of Wasilla and made a lot of BIG mistakes. She had the chance (for one year) to by the land from Nature Conservancy for $125,000 and choose to allow another buyer to buy it then litigate the landowner at a cost to the City of more than $2,000,000 (to date) through two separate lawsuits.
While the debt may not be totally out of line, (seems like a lot for a small town) getting so much earmark funding bothers me a little. She had to have connections, probably with Stevens.
Jay Tea:
Palin is absolutely nothing like Obama; you have to see that, because you have actually used intelligence in some of your other posts. She is almost radical in her abortion views; she is a fundamentalist Christian who wants Creatinism equally represented in schools; she supports aerial hunting, extensive oil drilling in protected areas, and complained when the polar bear was ruled “threatened” because it hurt oil or natural gas exploration (talk about a tree-hugger); she tried to censor Wasilla libraries; she fired an employee because she felt “intimidated”; she is far right, whereas, if you hadn’t noticed, Obama is left.
Also, for everyone: Do you think Obama used a teleprompter as a Senior Lecturer at the University of Chicago? Maybe all he demonstrates is an lack of agility when facing questions he lacks information to accurately answer. We all know that Republicans (and a few Democrats too) have found it all too easy recently to pretend they have knowledge they do not.
Does not the same argument about Palins “executive” experience cut both ways? Palin is more qualified than Obama because she has executive experience….Does that not also apply to McCain? Does he the same or equivalent executive experience? I think not. So is he anymore qualified by that reasoning?