Comments on: Half Empty Brigade

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:05:34 +0000

Thank you, Bruce.. You might be kidding about Math courses, but didn’t we all sit in geometry and think “What in the hell am I gonna do with a hypotenuse?”
=;-}

By: Bruce Henry

Bruce Henry — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:48:45 +0000

You, sir, are a reasonable man.

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:45:34 +0000

I believe that any institutional effort to end racism is helpful, whether it be led by the Churches , any level of government , or corporations
That is why I was careful to exclude “affirmative action” in hiring which can, and often does :
1) Give blacks a chance to work alongside whites, indicating that they are competent;
2) Does tend to make stereotypes fuzzy; and
3) Will increase, in one way or another, black – white socialization.

I am not so sure that this transfers to school corridors , anywhere beyond Middle School …

By: Bruce Henry

Bruce Henry — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:44:02 +0000

Math courses have not ended arithmetic mistakes, either. We should probably just forget it and stop trying.

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:38:46 +0000

Law enforcement sensitivity and “multicultural” training

Do you think we don’t need those things anymore?

They may have their uses,but they have not ended “selective enforcement by race” or, for example, being stopped for “driving while black”

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:25:55 +0000

speaking of educational achievement — “there”, above , should be “their”

-;-}

By: Bruce Henry

Bruce Henry — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:25:47 +0000

Also, my point was that those legal measures had the effect, intended or not, of lessening the number of people who are racists. They were not the sole cause of progress on that front, but they helped.

By: Duros Hussein 62

Duros Hussein 62 — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:21:36 +0000

Law enforcement sensitivity and “multicultural” training …

Do you think we don’t need those things anymore?

By: Bruce Henry

Bruce Henry — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:16:27 +0000

Maybe some of the affirmative action programs go a little too far, but I gotta quibble about the “busing for integration” thing. Throughout my elementary and junior-high years in the Old South, it was common to hear the N-word on a daily basis, even from teachers. This in all-white schools.
Then came “forced busing.”
My little brother, 12 years younger, despite going to school alongside black children, NEVER HEARD THE WORD until the 4th grade.He never used it himself, even in anger, because he didn’t see the world that way.
Anecdotal, I know, but I think illustrative.

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:14:13 +0000

“Also, hell yes. That should be obvious to any observer.”

Sorry, but it is simply “Yes” and it is not obvious to this observer that yanking kids of one race out of a school, and substituting kids of another race — whichever race you choose — has substantially enhanced either the educational achievements or there employment prospects …

By: Duros Hussein 62

Duros Hussein 62 — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:10:53 +0000

TV’s Frank is in the hizzouse!!!

I’ll just say what I said upthread. No one believes that electing Obama is going to end racism, but it shows that racism as an institution is eroding, slowly and with the force of rivers. Perhaps America is ready to grow up.

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:09:59 +0000

I am not sure what you think Obama’s symbolism is…
I think he was considered a worthy and valuable candidate for people of the “liberal persuasion” , and that his candidacy , as a black man, per se, was never questioned…
I think only a handful of pundits think he can’t win simple because he is black [if you remember, may more thought this was case during Jesse Jackson's ill fated run].

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:06:22 +0000

Minority set asides … Busing for integration … affirmative action in College …
Law enforcement sensitivity and “multicultural” training …

By: mambochicken23

mambochicken23 — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:00:30 +0000

Frank! MY BUDDY!

What governmental programs are you talking about?

Also, I don’t think that Obama’s a symbol in the way that you mean.

By: Bruce Henry

Bruce Henry — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:59:23 +0000

I reread.
The 13th amendment ended SLAVERY.
The 14th and 15th amendments made former slaves CITIZENS and supposedly LEGAL EQUALITY.
The Civil Rights and Voting Rights acts outlawed DISCRIMINATION.
I don’t think any of those measures were supposed to outlaw RACISM. But if you lived in the Old South before they were enacted, they sure as hell helped.
I grew up in the Old South. My high school wasn’t integrated until my sophomore year. The two Civil Rights acts, and so-called “forced busing”, were the best things to ever happen to this country.
Are a lot of people still racist in this country? Hell, yes. Are FEWER people racists than would be the case if those laws had not been enacted? Also, hell yes. That should be obvious to any observer.

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:52:10 +0000

My point is that Barack Obama is not a symbol that racism is dead == agreed.
But he is a symbol that government programs to “end racism” are complete and utter failures …
IF was not clearer than that before , I apologize …

By: Bruce Henry

Bruce Henry — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:41:04 +0000

So what’s your point? Kinda cryptic, arntcha?

By: Parthenon

Parthenon — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:29:57 +0000

Hey, the famous Frank is back.

By: Frank DiSalle

Frank DiSalle — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:19:46 +0000

Instead of discussing what Oliver wants you to discuss, why not discuss a slightly different question: If a black Presidential candidate can be nominated and /or possibly win; and , still, institutionalized racism, as well as personal racial animosity still exists, then by what standard can any Governmental “anti-racism” program, policy or legislation be said to be successful?
A black man is almost President, and two black teenagers can’t walk down the street without being stopped and frisked by the police …
The number of black men in prison continues to slowly, but surely, to increase each year …
Black on black crime continues to increase …
It should be clear, by now, over 140 years after the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendment; and over 40 years after two “Civil Rights Acts” , the Government has failed to stop racism.
No surprise to me …

By: Bruce Henry

Bruce Henry — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:05:41 +0000

You the man, Quaker.