Whether they’re on the public airwaves or on the senate floor, anyone with such influence over the public discourse should be held to the same standard.

At the same time, free speech is free speech and if McCain wants to call Bush a Stalinist he has a perfect right to do so.

Now was that so hard, Jay? Don’t you feel better now?

As you continue to build on this remarkable breakthrough might I suggest that the next time you write this sentence:

“It’s not right, but it cannot be compared to members of Congress (Robert Byrd, Pete Stark, Mahor Owens, etc)”

You replace the “etc.” with John McCain …

All in all, good work Jay. I knew you could do it.

Bzzzt! Wrong again. You’re talking one being “worse than the other.” I am saying that a member of Congress has more responsibility than a radio talk show host when it comes to using that kind of rhetoric.

Well for starters, you haven’t, yet. Indeed, you drew a distinction between Limbaugh and Byrd based on the fact that Byrd’s public office made his comments “irresponsible and reprehensible.”

Yes, because one is talk show host. The other is a United States Senator. You still cannot see the difference here and that’s pretty pathetic.

Oh christ. Really? Are you talking elected Republican officials or can we exclude the entirety of the right wing punditocracy and noise machine?

Yes Fafaroo because as I keep trying to get that through that thick head of yours, some pundit is not the same as an elected official.

You know I’m curious, Jay. Why did you feel the need to make up a scenario involving Sen Dole referring to Obama as a serial killer when there’s the perfectly apt and real example of McCain refering to the New York Republican Party and Bush’s supporters as Stalinists?

Here we go with your Ouija board again.

Could you address the McCain example, please? Was McCain being irresponsible and reprehensible? Yes or no.

Sure it was. But to you it’s no different than a pundit doing it.

No, Jay. It isn’t okay. You’ve once again singled out a liberal to call irresponsible. If Rhandi Rhodes is irresponsible, surely, Rush Limbaugh is by the same criteria.

Sure it is, but once again you fail to see the overall. And this is a major issue for you and it’s something you need to deal with. Saying that a talk show host is not different than a member of Congress is like saying some guy that works in the mail room of a major company has just as much responsibility for what he says and does as the CEO. Can you comprehend for a moment just how utterly IDIOTIC that way of thinking is?

Stop being such a hack. FOR ONCE. Nazi or Stalinist comparisons don’t belong in the public discourse. It is irresponsible for ANYBODY to make those comparisons. ANYBODY. Rush Limbaugh, John McCain, Oliver Willis, Joe Schmoe, Jay Caruso, etc.

That doesn’t change the fact that our elected officials should be held to a higher standard that bloggers, radio talk show hosts and pundits. And that’s something you can’t or won’t comprehend.

*cough cough* Prescott Bush *cough cough*

That’s just pitiful, Jay. Many? Is that like the same as “several”?

No, Jay. It isn’t okay. You’ve once again singled out a liberal to call irresponsible. If Rhandi Rhodes is irresponsible, surely, Rush Limbaugh is by the same criteria.

Is it so fucking hard for you to write the sentence: “Rush Limbaugh is irresponsible and reprehensible?”

This is also interesting. You criticize my logic separating legislative power from the power to sway public opinion. But here you conflate the two, comparing apples and oranges. Byrd can call anyone he wants a Nazis and still pass responsible and reasonable legislation, right? Unless you want to suggest that someone who calls someone a Nazi has no business writing legislation, I’d ask you, what business does someone who compares millions of American women to Nazis doing on the public airwaves?

Free speech is a defense for both Byrd and Limbaugh, Jay.

Could you address the McCain example, please? Was McCain being irresponsible and reprehensible? Yes or no.

No. That’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying if Rush Limbaugh compared Obama to a serial killer it would just as bad as if Sen. Dole did it. It’s your logic that leads you to conclude one is worse than the other.

Who said it’s not irresponsible?</i?

Show me Republicans who have routinely “regularly” call Democrats Stalinists and communists.

Oh christ. Really? Are you talking elected Republican officials or can we exclude the entirety of the right wing punditocracy and noise machine?

I’ll also just note for the record that you have no comment on McCain calling Bush’s supporters Stalinists in 2000. Why is that, Jay?

Horseshit. That’s an absurd line of reasoning. So what you’re saying is Senator Elizabeth Dole for instance, could compare Barack Obama to a serial killer but just as long as she’s not introducing legislation saying so, then it’s ok.

That’s some logic dude.

So whether Byrd is third in line to be president or not is entirely irrelevant to the kind of power we’re talking about which is the power to sway public opinion and perception.

Actually, we’re talking about power, period. But if you want to get technical, it still doesn’t matter. Limbaugh’s comments affect, what 1.6% of the total population? The legislation that Byrd signs on to affects the entire country and there’s just no place for a member of Congress to be comparing the President of the United States to Adolph Hitler.

You’ve already admitted that Limbaugh has more power in this arena and you hold him to a lower standard than you do Byrd.

Radio talk show host. United States Senator.

Byrd can call someone a Nazi on CSPAN and he’s being “irresponsible and reprehensible.” Limbaugh can do the same thing daily with an audience of millions and he’s wrong but not irresponsible? Really?

Who said it’s not irresponsible? But again. Radio talk show host. United States Senator. When Randi Rhodes decided it would be ‘witty’ to play sounds of gunfire while comparing President Bush to Fredo Corleone and saying somebody should take him fishing, it was irresponsible. Ok? But are you going to tell me it wouldn’t be worse for a member of Congress to say the same thing?

It just ASTOUNDS me dude that you don’t see the difference here. It proves you really are nothing but a partisan hack.

And, Jay, if you want to find the equivalent of Dems calling someone a Nazi, try looking for Republicans who regularly refer to Democrats and other American citizens as Stalinists, communists or socialists.

Where? Show me Republicans who have routinely “regularly” call Democrats Stalinists and communists. And tough with the socialists. Many Democrats are supportive of a socialist form of democracy. In a system where government pretty much controls everything, that’s socialism.

Try replacing the term “Liberal” with “Jew” on every broadcast of Rush et al and would sound like what Hitler spouted on the radio in Germany during the 30s.

But he’s not saying ‘Jew’ so that’s irrelevant. And Rush Limbaugh has been nationally syndicated for nearly TWENTY YEARS. If the man was as dangerous as you claim, something would have happened already. As usual, liberals elevate Limbaugh to a status that just doesn’t exist.

I am glad you flavor this place. And Oliver, thanks again for keeping an open mind and comments section. We suspect we’re all bored of just hearing our own ‘types of people’.

Jay, if you couldn’t tell, I was just doing the ‘over-the-top’ generalizing I’ve met in most of the right’wing wedsites I’ve visited. You seem to agree somewhat the maybe Bork was too extreme, but maybe haven’t read Mein Kampf (or some portion of it in translation). I admit I am not an expert, but reading Bork did it for me like Mein Kampf did and Hitler didn’t even focus on the Jews as much as Bork did upon the evil that Liberals do to our Nation.

Does, ’surrender monkey’ ring a bell? Or Traitors? Or who lost the Vietnam war?

If you tried listening to Rush Limbaugh more closely you’d see why “liberals” have much to worry about the Right. Try replacing the term “Liberal” with “Jew” on every broadcast of Rush et al and would sound like what Hitler spouted on the radio in Germany during the 30s. A recent friendly interview of Rush by the NYTimes actually revealed more than Rushmo would have liked…as his racist fanatically right-wing Lawyer father totally initiated Rush into the Far Right’s dogma and Rush, being ill-educated and incredibly lazy (as his mom said), just picked up on it and added his trademark (and admittedly ‘genius’) humor to it.

Oh, just a radio host? Like the German propaganda machine (backed with armed thugs) didn’t work then? Just what happened to those “Jews” (and “liberals”) btw? The only difference here is that the ‘armed thugs’ aren’t worried enough to do anything so violent as it’s opposition is so mild in America.

Invoking images of Communist repression, Senator John McCain called today on Gov. George W. Bush to stop Bush supporters in New York State from challenging Mr. McCain’s petition to appear on New York presidential primary ballots.

”Let’s not have the kind of Stalinist politics that the state of New York, the Republican Party, has been practicing,” he told reporters after a speech to the State Legislature in Concord, N.H.”

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D04EEDA123AF937A25752C0A9669C8B63

So McCain evoked Stalinism and communist repression when referring to Bush supporters in 2000. He was, obviously, a Senator at the time and while not in line for the presidency, he was running for it. Irresponsible and reprehensible? Or whatever?

Jay, if Sen. Byrd ever tried to push through legislation branding this or that group of American citizens Nazis, you might have a point. we’re not talking about political power here. But, of course, he’s never done that and never would.

So whether Byrd is third in line to be president or not is entirely irrelevant to the kind of power we’re talking about which is the power to sway public opinion and perception.

You’ve already admitted that Limbaugh has more power in this arena and you hold him to a lower standard than you do Byrd.

Byrd can call someone a Nazi on CSPAN and he’s being “irresponsible and reprehensible.” Limbaugh can do the same thing daily with an audience of millions and he’s wrong but not irresponsible? Really?

And, Jay, if you want to find the equivalent of Dems calling someone a Nazi, try looking for Republicans who regularly refer to Democrats and other American citizens as Stalinists, communists or socialists. In the conservative mind, this is even worse than calling someone a Nazi, afterall, because the communists killed more people. Or am I wrong on that front? Is calling someone a communist, when you consider communism the most heinous ideology the world has ever know, no big deal?

True, but the same thing applies to the generic head of the NAACP (unless he/she is also a member of Congress, which Julian Bond is not), and yet you lumped the person holding that title in with Stark, Owens, and Byrd. If anything, Rush Limbaugh is probably a more iconic and influential figure on the right than Julian Bond is on the left. Kind of takes away your “Well, it’s worse when elected officials do it” argument, doesn’t it?