’)As John McCain grows increasingly desperate and morphs into the Mean McCain his close associates and wives know, he has attacked Sen. Obama as a celebrity and used Paris Hilton and Britney Spears in his latest ad designed for the media to run over and over again for him. The problem here is it is John McCain who hobnobbed with Britney Spears and Co. at the MTV awards. It is his daughter who pals around with reality TV stars. And it he’s the one who does all this while walking around in $500+ dollar loafers.
I haven’t seen the ad. But is it claiming that Obama is hanging out with celebrities, or is it claiming that the press is treating Obama like Brittany Spears and Paris Hilton?
Because 1) Obama has hung out with celebrities (what top notch politician hasn’t?) and 2) why is it wrong to point out the cult-like treatment Obama receives — he’s not called the Messiah for nothing.
I should also ask if only a democrat can post a picture of a celebrity’s love for Obama? Because you seem distressed that McCain is linking celebrities to Obama.
Shorter JWG: “Honestly, I just think we should trust our president [Bush, Jr.] in every decision that he makes, and we should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens.”
Outside of the Kennedys, the only other presidential candidate in my lifetime whose followers treated (still treat) as the Messiah was Ronald Reagan.
he’s not called the Messiah for nothing.
Actually, he’s only called the Messiah by his opponents, who can’t understand why people would feel so passionately about him…even though many of these opponents, without irony, can’t stop singing the praises of our double-plusgood leader. A leader who, I’d point out, has admitted that God speaks to him, but doesn’t get disparaged for his “arrogance” the same way Obama does.
Oh many kids does he have?!?! “Among others…” and then lists 4 kids… holy shit.
I don’t even know how to address JWG. I don’t understand what you don’t get.
Back in 2000, when I still lived in DC, I worked in a small office. There were 4 of us. They were all Republicans (in the 80’s Reagan mold) and all worked in the Reagan Administration. To a man (and one woman) – they LOATHED John McCain. “Phony” was the word they usually used.
I’m not sure how this got to be about Bush, so I won’t even address those idiotic strawmen.
Lots of conservatives see McCain’s politics as “phony.” However, that doesn’t address the alleged desperation of the ad.
The ad implies that Obama has a cult-like following. Oliver wants to counter this by saying that McCain has been seen with celebrities. Whoop-dee-doo. That doesn’t have anything to do with the tingling that reporters get while in Obama’s presence.
cult and willful blindness
McCain needs to get away from these types of ads. This one in particular I think is terrible.
So what if the press tingles about Obama? It would be one thing if that complaint was about highlighting an unfair bias in reporting by the press. That would be a fair criticism. However, the complaint that the press likes Obama is used to say that people are blindly supporting the guy. That is a ridiculous criticism: “Don’t vote for him because he’s photogenic and popular.” “Don’t like him because his following is enthusiastic.” Opponents keep saying this as if it should make the guy a less desirable candidate, despite the fact that it’s a very American trait to like the coolest guy in the class.
I’d rather hear opponents talk about Obama’s qualifications or the lack thereof than hear them complain that the guy is popular. It sounds very much like Hillary’s sour grapes “Give me attention, too” tactics that were equally pitiful and ineffective. That’s why I’m similarly not impressed by the “John McCain has Hollywood qualities so he shouldn’t throw stones from his glass house” argument. There’s plenty to criticize both candidates about besides arguing over who’s too star-like.
cult and willful blindness
Exaggeration and ad hominem.
And Bush got brought into this because it’s completely disingenuous for anybody who supports Bush to complain about a “cultlike” following. The 28% who still insist that Bush is Doing Everything Right is practically the definition of a “cult.”
Look out Cindy! Britney is wealthy, blond, and younger than you; all things your husband looks for in a new wife. She also shares his devoted and absolute trust in President Bush. Could romance be in the air?
Fine. Find a comment made by me supporting Bush as doing everything right and you’ll have proved me a disingenuous cult member.
In the meantime, keep bowing at the alter of the Obamessiah.
JWG: Find a comment made by me supporting Bush as doing everything right and you’ll have proved me a disingenuous cult member.
Find a comment made by an Obama supporter calling him the Messiah.
I never said supporters call him the Messiah.
Which well-loved potential president made this comment?
I for one condemn such comparisons. How about you?
Shorter JWG: This billboard? Never heard of it?
This billboard? Never heard of it?
One almost feels the ‘our’ ought to be replaced by ‘dear.’
Again with Bush? I don’t get it.
Again with Bush? I don’t get it.
Shorter JWG: Bush? Never liked the guy. Voted against him every chance I got. Worst. Administration. Ever.
JWG, I couldn’t agree with you more.
One almost feels the ‘our’ ought to be replaced by ‘dear.’
From you mouth to Monica Goodling’s, Alberto “Fredo” Gonzales’s, et al ears.
it’s completely disingenuous for anybody who supports Bush to complain about a “cultlike” following
“Honestly, I just think we should trust our president [Bush, Jr.] in every decision that he makes, and we should just support that, you know, and be faithful in what happens.”
–JWG et al
“cult and willful blindness”
When conservative write shit like this about Obama it’s like they think we all didn’t just live through the last eight years. Can I just put out there a brief run down of titles at Amazon about our Dear Leader:
George W. Bush: Portrait of a Leader
The Faith of George W. Bush
A Charge to Keep
George W. Bush on God and Country: The President Speaks Out About Faith, Principle, and Patriotism
A Man Of Faith : The Spiritual Journey of George W. Bush
Rebel in Chief: Inside the Bold and Controversial Presidency of George W. Bush
Misunderestimated : The President Battles Terrorism, Media Bias, and the Bush Haters
The Evangelical President: George Bush’s Struggle to Spread a Moral Democracy Throughout the World
Bush Country: How George W. Bush Became the First Great Leader of the 21st Century—While Driving Liberals Insane
The Leadership Genius of George W. Bush: 10 Common Sense Lessons from the Commander-in-Chief
This is why it’s about Bush, JWG. There is, without a doubt a conservative cult of Bush that knows no shame in heaping mountain’s of praise on this guy. Just contemplate some of those titles. Yes, there are a lot of anti-Bush books out there. But as cottage industries go, I don’t think I’ve seen such a hagiographic pile on as i have for Bush.
To fafaroo’s list, I would add the hand-picked audiences and questions like, “Thank you for answereing the call.”
How much of your “hagiographic pile on” took place before Bush was even elected?
In the meantime, keep bowing at the alter of the Obamessiah.
I never said supporters call him the Messiah.
Which was my point–it’s yahoos like you who keep this “Messiah” thing going, not his supporters. I don’t bow at the “altar” and I don’t consider him a Messiah. But it serves your purposes to pretend that this actually exists.
But then, pretending things exist is characteristic of the Bush years.
Which was my point–it’s yahoos like you who keep this “Messiah” thing going, not his supporters.
Spider, this is something you’re just going to have to deal with. Bush supporters have been subject to the same nonsense (note Fafaroo’s reference to “Dear Leader”), so you’re going to have to sit back and deal with Obama being referred to as “The One”, “The Messiah”, etc. More than a few times Oliver has pointed out something controversial a conservative has said or done and said that such a person was one of “their Gods” – “their” being other conservatives.
So thicken the skin up a little friend and just deal with it — until November.
How much of your “hagiographic pile on” took place before Bush was even elected?
I’d guess a lot, given that Bush Jr.’s only qualificaiton for President (or anything else) was that he was the son of–hell, had the same name as–a President.
Hey, if it were just about me I could deal with it. But it extends beyond his supporters being told they venerate Obama in ways that they don’t–it’s used as a false foundation to proclaim that Obama thinks of himself as a Messiah. If he bought into the hype of his supporters, that’s something, but if the hype of his supporters doesn’t actually achieve “cult” status, then this fails a logic test.
It’s a baseless and insidious attack, and I find it hilarious that anybody who looked the other way while Bush claimed God Almighty was personally guiding his decisions can then turn around and start sneering about Obama’s “arrogance.”
“arrogance.”
Which is code for “uppity.”
If he bought into the hype of his supporters, that’s something, but if the hype of his supporters doesn’t actually achieve “cult” status, then this fails a logic test.
Well unfortunately, what he says is what creates the hype and that stirs up supporters, many of whom don’t even know what the guy stands for other than “hope” and “change.” However, if you’re critical of him in any way, those same ignorant supporters will react with a fury to defend him in a way that is only reserved for those with a cult like following.
Don’t get me wrong. The same kind of attitude exists for people like Ronald Reagan and President Bush, but to deny that it is exists is to deny reality.
It’s a baseless and insidious attack, and I find it hilarious that anybody who looked the other way while Bush claimed God Almighty was personally guiding his decisions can then turn around and start sneering about Obama’s “arrogance.”
Well what’s arrogant about seeking guidance for decisions in prayer to God? Bush certainly isn’t the first President to say he does that.
Only the Messiah would say he’s not the messiah.
The Republicans and the press just can’t understand that a lot of Obama supporters like myself don’t think he’s the second coming. With clear-eyed introspection, I simply think he’s the best guy for the job. The perfect guy? Of course not. There’s no such think in American politics.
More simply — Bush II and the Republican party have done a ton of damage to my country. I want to elect someone who can fix at least some of it. That man, given the current choice, is Obama.
McCain? No thank you. Eight years of Bush II was eight years too many. We don’t need four more. (Actually, I’m not sure if our country could survive four more.)
But please — someone tell me how I have a Messiah-worship complex when it comes to Barack.
Well what’s arrogant about seeking guidance for decisions in prayer to God? Bush certainly isn’t the first President to say he does that.
Let’s see what President Obama has to say:
An Instrument of God’s Will? Sounds like one of those hick, unhinged, bible-thumping theocrats that those on the left (and here) like to sneer derisively at.
Well what’s arrogant about seeking guidance for decisions in prayer to God? Bush certainly isn’t the first President to say he does that.
Sure. And if Bush had merely said, “I pray for guidance,” then there’s nothing for me to harp about. Plenty of people speak to God; some even believe that God answers their prayers through actions and occurrences, or other “mysterious ways.”
Bush, however, doesn’t just talk to God; God talks back to him. Bush doesn’t just receive guidance from the higher power, he receives, quite literally, marching orders.
Bush, however, doesn’t just talk to God; God talks back to him. Bush doesn’t just receive guidance from the higher power, he receives, quite literally, marching orders.
I had a feeling you were going to bring that up. That conversation has never been confirmed (in fact Bush denied it) and even Shaath said the context was far different. I expect more from you than this kind of dreck.
many of whom don’t even know what the guy stands for other than “hope” and “change.”
Hmm. Now why would you write that? What evidence do you have for this statement? Hmm….
I expect more than your word that Shaath now denies the efficacy of the story, which was vetted by both the BBC and Ha’aretz…link, please? I also consider that the White House denial is little more than a denial, especially considering it was delivered from the mouth of Scott McClellan, whom neither side can really trust to be speaking the truth these days.
While you’re debunking my dreck, feel free to debunk the below as well.
“I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can’t explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen… I know it won’t be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it.”
–George W. Bush commenting to Texas evangelist James Robinson in the run-up to his presidential campaign
“I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job.”
–Statement made during campaign visit to Amish community, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, Jul. 9, 2004
God also told Bush, Jr. to ignore al-Queda threats and to lie us into an invasion of Iraq. What a horrible God it is which guides our [technical] President.
link, please?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4320586.stm
While you’re debunking my dreck, feel free to debunk the below as well.
As to the first comment by Bush, so what? People talk all the time of doing what they feel is God’s will. Again, how is it personifying arrogance by saying this? If he had said, “God wants me to win the Presidency” then I could see your point.
The second comment is another one that cannot be verified. It appeared in one newspaper article in some small Lancaster newspaper and it was written that Bush “reportedly” said it, but who reported it is not known and it was never verified.
I appreciate the BBC link. I’ll avoid bringing up the Shaath quote again.
As to the second quote, I can’t see how you can read that as anything but “God wants me to win the Presidency.” Are you claiming that God wanted George W. Bush to run for the office and fail? That this was the way his country would need him?
As to the third, fair enough, although it’s also not denied anywhere that I can tell.
As to the second quote, I can’t see how you can read that as anything but “God wants me to win the Presidency.” Are you claiming that God wanted George W. Bush to run for the office and fail? That this was the way his country would need him?
It’s easy to see how you may not understand. Please. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying it that way with a nasty tone. But there are times when people of faith (in this case Christianity) dwell on doing something, pray about it and feel it is something that God is leading them to do. Are people always right? No. People often times convince themselves that whatever it is they’re doing is what God wants them to do.
I’ll give you an example. I have good friends of mine who opened a Christian bookstore about 2 years ago. The husband worked for the postal service and had it pretty good there. His wife worked in the school system. She continued to work full time while he opened this store. He was convinced this was his calling and convinced it was what God wanted him to do. To make a long story short, the store went out of business, and they had to file for bankruptcy. Unfortunately, while being a great guy and all, he wasn’t a very good business person. So, people can often convince themselves that what they’re doing is what God wants for them, but we’re often fooling ourselves.
So, did Bush feel God wanted him to run? Sure. As for winning, who knows? Life’s lessons doesn’t always involve winning. Remember, Bush said, “I sense my country is going to need me” not, “God said my country needs me.”
As for the arrogance factor, certainly it is there. There isn’t a politician around that doesn’t suffer from it and there are times when Bush has displayed hefty doses of it.
“Only the Messiah would say he’s not the messiah.”
Awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krb2OdQksMc
Jay,
Well what’s arrogant about seeking guidance for decisions in prayer to God?
Telling everyone about it, according to the Gospel. Matthew 6:5
RR, if you’re going to refer to scripture, at least know what you’re talking about. Matthew 6:5 addresses praying in public (and doing so not in way that is not glorifying God but engaging in self-righteousness), not telling people you pray to help guide your decisions.
Jay,
Telling people that God guides his actions suggests that God told Bush to invade Iraq. Why did God lie to Bush about the WMD?
Jay,
One more thing. Any god who is guiding President Bush’s actions is not worthy of worship. The only explanation that seems to fit the result of W’s prayer is that Bush worships Satan by mistake.
Hey RR, don’t get snippy with me because you decided to put your ignorance of an issue on full display for people to see. If the best retort you can come up with is the nonsense you provided, then it’s best that you don’t say anything.
Now please don’t growl at me.
Jay, if there isn’t s#!t running down your leg, then I must not have growled at you. Say, when are YOU going to enlist in the war you wanted so badly? I served even when I didn’t agree with the war.
And I notice that you avoided the issue of whether God lied to Bush about the WMD when Mr. Bush apparently prayed for divine guidance.
I stick by Matthew 6:5. Mr. Bush saying that God guides him doesn’t say much for his god, and it says a lot about Mr. Bush’s hypocrisy as defined by St. Matthew.