It might be funny if he weren’t running for leader of the free world. Some forgot their Centrum Silver again.
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John McCain And The Mythical Iraq-Pakistan Border
July 21st, 2008
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NBC/NJ’s Adam Aigner-Treworgy, who has been traveling with the McCain campaign, notes that the candidate has until today danced around questions about increasing the troop commitment in Afghanistan. During yesterday’s press avail, McCain stepped up to the line, but backed off: “I think we need to do whatever is necessary, and that could entail more troops. We need to do a lot of things in Afghanistan. A lot of this has to do with Pakistan and the safe haven areas that I have visited in the Pakistan-Afghanistan
border.
http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2008/07/mccain_calls_fo.html
McCain just last week in a press conference with no notes talked about the pakistan-afghanistan border and how he has visited the region.
McCain was asked about afghanistan from diane sawyer.
You are making it like he doesn’t know the area. He had been talking about Iraq and had a slip up of words.
The new Iran foreign policy – pretend they aren’t there.
“Centrum Sliver”
Nice one Oliver:)
All those who have never uttered a malapropism, please stand up.
And BTW, I think it’s clear to anyone with two functioning brain cells, he confused Iraq with India.
57 States…
Easy gents, it’s a playful tease. I don’t take verbal miscues too seriously, not even Bush’s colorful lexicon.
8 to 10 years of his presidency…
Maybe Barry forgot to take his Flintstones chewables.
I’m with you, Parthenon, but like Robin Williams said when filming Mrs. Doubtfire, you can only dress up in women’s clothes so many times before it becomes a habit.
If you see what i mean.
Doesn’t it seem like the journalists never really question what the candidates say. The journalists ask their pre-printed questions, get some response from the candidates and then move right along. No actual thought required.
Arkansas is closer to Kentucky than Illinois…
A tornado killed 10,000 people in Kansas…
Obama’s parents were inspired by a Civil Rights march that happened four years after he was born…
Obama’s views on race were shaped by a nonexistent article from Life Magazine about a black man who scarred himself bleaching his skin…
Canada is governed by a president…
We need more Arabic translators in Afghanistan, and they’re all busy in Iraq…
His uncle helped liberate Auschwitz…
President Kennedy’s 1961 summit with Khrushchev was a good thing…
You know, Duros, you’re so right.
J.
Mr. McCain doesn’t misspeak. He says crazy stuff on purpose:
Bomb-bomb-bomb bomb-bomb Iran!
Make it a hundred!
John McCain confused the borders of Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
Barack Obama confused the borders of Illinois, Arkansas, and Kentucky.
Barack Obama represents Illinois in the US Senate.
J.
Fortunately, we’re not at war in Kentucky.
We’re not at war in Illinois either.
Quaker, are you so sure? After all, those Kentuckians are pretty bitter as they cling to their guns and religion…
J.
Old McCain might require a color-coded war (Sunnis in red and Shiites in blue.
….Oh snap! He doesn’t know the difference between these two groups anyway
….so I guess he will have to kill all “the Muslims who want to kill us.”
Why is McCain running for president? He’s pretty much hanging his hat on his qualifications to be commander-in-chief. And since that apparently is summed up by listening to the generals, why aren’t the generals running for president. And taking the generals out of the equation, I guess it would come down to who can hear better out of the main candidates.
Gentlemen, I am awaiting those hearing test results.
The difference is the frequency at which the two candidates make these errors. With Obama, it seems to happen at a pace typical for a presidential nominee, about once every couple weeks. With McCain, it seems to be happening 2-3 times a week.
mike, interesting correlation, but try comparing it to how many times the two candidates talk off the cuff, not from prepared remarks. Without his teleprompter, Obama tosses out a LOT more gaffes. On the other hand, McCain is off the teleprompter a hell of a lot more.
J.
“On the other hand, McCain is off the teleprompter a hell of a lot more.”
I’m not sure you can back that up with any evidence.
I’m pretty sure you are bullshitting right now.
I’m willing to be proven wrong, but that seems like a claim that is simply not verifiable.
Stroke, I’ve seen tons of videos of McCain just sitting around and shooting the breeze with reporters. He’s also held countless “town hall” meetings that are totally unscripted — witness the guy who asked him about “why did you call your wife a cunt” incident.
On the other hand, Obama shows up and gives speeches, keeps reporters at arms length (even the “sweethearts”), and carefully restricts his unscripted moments.
I don’t have Oliver’s access to Media Matters archives to give you a solid, statistical breakdown, but common sense (you might have heard of that at some point) says that McCain spends a hell of a lot more time off the TelePrompTer than Obama does.
J.
“I don’t have Oliver’s access to Media Matters archives to give you a solid, statistical breakdown, but common sense (you might have heard of that at some point) says that McCain spends a hell of a lot more time off the TelePrompTer than Obama does.”
Common sense sounds a lot like pulling facts out of your ass.
You are making claims on facts you can’t possibly have. In essence, you are lying by overstating your position.
Stroke, I cited one concrete example of McCain being hit with an unscripted question — not the only one, certainly, but the most obvious. He also holds regular conference calls with bloggers, which are NEVER scripted. Can you cite a single recent Obama event where folks were NOT heavily screened and he was protected from unpleasant surprises? Someone asking him a similarly impertinent question — about his birth certificate, whether he is secretly a Muslim, his ties to scumbag Tony Rezko, why he’s so buddy-buddy with unreformed terrorists, why his wife hates America, is he a Communist, or any of that stuff?
I’m not saying he SHOULD be asked those things, and he certainly shouldn’t have to answer any of them (well, apart from the Rezko and the terrorists bit), but the mere fact taht he’s been protected from having to face them speaks volumes about which candidate is comfortable about facing nasty questions from the unwashed masses, and which needs to hide behind the fawning press and his legions of enablers and apologists.
If can cite a an example or two of Obama being this open to being questioned by the general public, or risking a hostile questioning, I’d be delighted to hear about it.
Otherwise, print out this page, fold it into about seventeen sharp corners, and shove it up your ass.
J.
Without his teleprompter, Obama tosses out a LOT more gaffes. On the other hand, McCain is off the teleprompter a hell of a lot more.
I have seen no evidence to back this statement up. I have, however, seen quite a bit of evidence that would point to this statement as a steaming pile of Republican’t propaganda being catapulted.
His regular conference calls to bloggers are not scripted? The callers are not pre-screened based on what questions they would be asking Johnathon Sidney McCain the Third? I would ask that you provide proof of this statement, too.
I do seem to recall a 62 year old librarian being arrested when she showed up at a McClueless town hall as a less-than-enthusiastic McTheuselah spokesweasel, though. And a deer-in-the-headlight un-telepromptered video about when Depends-Man was asked about birth control. Funny how that shows that Obama is less-scripted and more willing to censor his audiences when you listen to a Republican’t talk about the situation…
And who can forget when he was asked about gay marriage on Ellen. And his actions when Ellen had the temerity to disagree with his “stance”.
“Someone asking him a similarly impertinent question — about his birth certificate, whether he is secretly a Muslim, his ties to scumbag Tony Rezko, why he’s so buddy-buddy with unreformed terrorists, why his wife hates America, is he a Communist, or any of that stuff?”
Like how Obama took up with his current wife while he was married to the old one? Like how Obama made propoganda videos for N. Vietnam? Like how Obama changed churches from a mainstream church to an evangelical church just in time for the 2000 campaign? Like his support for John Hagee and Rod Parsley? Like the drilling Obama has gotten from the press on the Keating 5 scandal? Oh wait, that’s another presidential candidate.
Enlightened, you might want to read the very next paragraph I wrote. I specifically said that Obama should NOT have to face such questions, but the mere fact that he has not as yet had to face them indicates that he’s being protected from them.
Or, if you like, you can argue that the right-wing nuts are politer and more considerate and more respectful than the left-wing nuts. If you wanna say your crazies are crazier than our crazies, that’s fine with me.
J.
“Someone asking him a similarly impertinent question — about his birth certificate, whether he is secretly a Muslim…”
What about the time he was called Osama by someone asking a question. Does that count?
Regardless, the matter is still the same. You made a claim that you can’t back up. And you think I should be the one to provide evidence to discredit a claim with no substantial evidence to begin with.
What you think is ‘common sense’ if meaningless if you can’t back it up with hard evidence. Don’t like that? Don’t care. That’s the way reality works.
“Otherwise, print out this page, fold it into about seventeen sharp corners, and shove it up your ass.”
And to think, you keep calling me Stroke cause I get worked up.
The hypocrisy is sickening.
I’ll give you an easy one, Stroke:
“Senator Obama, you were a strong supporter of the DC gun ban. Then, when the Supreme Court struck that ban down, you said you supported the Court’s filing. Could you please reconcile these two positions, because it appears that you, a former professor of Constitutional law, are saying that you enthusiastically supported — and still support — an unconstitutional law?”
I’d bet that the first reporter who asks Obama that question gets tossed off the Obama airplane — kinda like Ryan Lizza, the reporter from the New Yorker was bounced after it was discovered he’d written a very embarrassing story about Obama’s early days as a Chicago politician.
Thus to all heretics!
J.
j, did you hear that sound? That’s the point going over your head.
You’re quite right, EL. Perhaps you could clarify it for me:
When John McCain says something loopy, it’s because he’s old. (And, presumably, decrepit, senile, and unfit to be president.)
When Barack Obama says something loopy, it’s because…
That’s where the point goes right past me. Give a guy a hand?
J.
Oh, and Stroke, that doesn’t count. It seems everyone’s made the Obama/Osama slip. Hell, a talk show host around here plays a clip of Ted Kennedy saying “Why don’t we ask Senator Osama Bin… Senator Osama… Senator Obama” over and over and over again.
I see it as the verbal equivalent of people mistyping Iraq and Iran. Both very prominent names in similar contexts (global figures vs. Mideast nations) with extremely similar names — saying one for the other is mildly embarrassing for the speaker, but not that big a deal. So no, someone bobbling Obama’s name while asking him a question doesn’t mean a damned thing.
J.
“I’d bet that the first reporter who asks Obama that question gets tossed off the Obama airplane — kinda like Ryan Lizza, the reporter from the New Yorker was bounced after it was discovered he’d written a very embarrassing story about Obama’s early days as a Chicago politician.”
Surely it was all about that nasty article and not about THE NEW YORKER COVER..
Lizza did indeed get “bounced” from the Obama overseas trip -along with 159 other reporters. 40 members of the press were chosen out of 200.
FOX also didnt make the trip. Jeff Gannon didn’t either. Nor did Brent Bozell or the 101st Fighting Keyboarders or the 77th Stateside-Deferred Wailing Banana-slugs… there’s a pattern here, I just know it..
No you freaking idiot, the point is that the depth of questions that are asked of McSame are the exact level (or weaker) of the questions asked/not asked of Obama. There was a book about it you know. I don’t think you have the inquisitiveness to read it since it wasn’t published by Regnery.
I have a few opinions to offer up for rhetorical evisceration, having skimmed the generally well-written and thought-out comments on this thread…
These lines of attacks, taken even remotely seriously and not for a laugh, are dumb, dumb, dumb. They don’t convince anybody, nor should they. Sen. Obama freaking knows that there are 50 states, and Sen. McCain freaking knows that Iran exists and is between Iraq and Pakistan. Contrary to popular belief one can’t be both a blithering idiot and function as a United States Senator (or, for that matter, a Governor, much less a President). I’ve laughed as much as anybody at President Bush mangling the language, but if you haven’t spoken to him or actually studied his grasp of policy in depth, you are not well-placed to claim he or anyone else is legitimately intellectually challenged.
If one can not win on the issues and has to resort to viral campaigns of snark regarding patriotism or verbal gaffes, one deserves to lose. Though his experience is a mark in his favor, McCain’s age is an altogether different issue. For all the credible reports of how President Reagan was disinterested or detached in his second term, his relatively advanced age does make me wonder.
Finally, these campaigns are generally run by the ad people, right? As in, the people whose job it is to not provide information? Doesn’t that render any pissing contest about which candidate is more genuine pretty much moot?
“Oh, and Stroke, that doesn’t count.”
Of course not. It only counts when McCain is in front of a ‘town hall’ with his carefully screened group of supporters.
“I’d bet that the first reporter who asks Obama that question gets tossed off the Obama airplane — kinda like Ryan Lizza, the reporter from the New Yorker was bounced after it was discovered he’d written a very embarrassing story about Obama’s early days as a Chicago politician.”
Prove it. Prove Lizza was bounced because of that article. You can’t, because most of the reporters that follow Obama around didn’t go because of space restrictions.
But you decided to make a claim that you must know if impossible to back up. And by doing so, you lied.
veteran network correspondent Mitchell described on “Hardball” as an unprecedented level of press restriction and manipulation.
“He (Obama)didn’t have reporters with him, he didn’t have a press pool, he didn’t do a press conference while he was on the ground in either Afghanistan or Iraq. What you’re seeing is not reporters brought in. You’re seeing selected pictures taken by the military, questions by the military, and what some would call fake interviews, because they’re not interviews from a journalist. So, there’s a real press issue here. Politically it’s smart as can be. But we’ve not seen a presidential candidate do this, in my recollection, ever before.”
Christie, don’t be naive. That’s all part of the Hope And Change agenda. Don’t you DARE question it!
J.
like Robin Williams said when filming Mrs. Doubtfire, you can only dress up in women’s clothes so many times before it becomes a habit.
If you see what i mean.
That’s a good point, but in theory, even if McCain thought Iraq shared a border with Pakistan, one of his gaggle of advisors would clue him in before too long. They won’t get far on the Baghdad-Islamabad highway before realizing they’re forgetting something.
So J I guess proof that she was booted off the plane because of that article isn’t forthcoming. Disappointing, but not surprising.
“and what some would call fake interviews, because they’re not interviews from a journalist.”
And that’s concerning, of course, because we all know journalists never have fake interviews and only ever ask the truly probing questions.
But we’ve not seen a presidential candidate do this, in my recollection, ever before
Really? Haven’t been paying attention much, have you?
Andrea Mitchell is getting the 72 pt type with blink tag and “OMG” smiley treatment in the wingnut nebula today.
Too bad for Mitchell and the re-outraged mouthbreathers that Obama is doing nothing worse than what Commander Guy does on a regular basis with both the troops and the press
Funny how Mitchell described how Maliki’s office said there was a translation issue with the Der Spiegel, referring to the language in question as “Iraqi”. Too bad they speak in Arabic. Now thats journalism.
Seems like Obama took notice of Mitchell a little while ago during a press conference in Jordan:
“How many questions is that, Andrea?”
I can tell you that GW Bush ISN’T stupid. He’s “educated”, for what that is worth. However, I will say that he is intellectually lazy and inflexible, and morally bankrupt, though I didn’t always believe that. Many liberal Texans will tell you that even though they disagreed with him, he never seemed to be THAT bad a guy. He was fairly bipartisan in those days. But he never should have been a candidate for President, let alone sat in the office for 8 years.
By the way, I sincerely hope that everyone else is as reassured as I am to hear that “Israel is a strong friend of Israel’s. It will be a strong friend of Israel’s under a McCain…administration. It will be a strong friend of Israel’s under an Obama administration. So that policy is not going to change.”
I was SO worried about that one… Israel needs all the friends it can get.
J.
Well, Mr. Tea, while it admittedly sounds ridiculous, it enjoys the benefit of accuracy. Unlike certain mythical borders.
Parthenon, Jul 22nd, 2008 at 10:37 am
[snip]
Contrary to popular belief one can’t be both a blithering idiot and function as a United States Senator (or, for that matter, a Governor, much less a President).
I would strenuously disagree on this point, and submit the following individuals to support the popular belief that one can’t be both a blithering idiot and function as a United States Senator (or, for that matter, a Governor, much less a President):
US Representatives:
Michele Bachmann
Dana Rohrbacher
Duncan hunter
Darrell Issa
Marilyn Musgrave
Jack Kingston
Bill Sali
Jean Schmidt
Deborah Pryce
James Sensenbrenner
US Senators:
sam Brownback
Jim Imhofe
Jim Bunning
Tom Coburn
Norm Coleman
John Cornyn
Mitch McConnell
And I would argue that the pRestzelDunce most definitely proved you could be a mental midget while governatering and presidentering.
I would also like to point out that I don’t really pay much attention to any of the blithering idiots running this country into the ground from both sides of the aisle – so these are only the people that I can personally recall saying unbelievably stupid things either while ‘working’ in congress or speaking in an official capacity (ie. no Wide Stance Pretending-Not-To-Be-Gay bathroom trollers or diaper wearing congresscritters). And that it is fortunate for all concerned that Rick Santorum and a few of the other raving nutters were not re-electorated in aught six.
Quaker, would that be like the tremendous distance from Illinois to Kentucky?
J.
would that be like the tremendous distance from Illinois to Kentucky?
That is not the one that came to mind.
Not to yours, perhaps, Quaker, but it is to mine.
But I’ll go back to the main theme of Oliver’s posting: “When John McCain says something foolish, it’s because he’s old.”
What does it mean when Obama says things equally foolish?
J.
What does it mean when Obama says things equally foolish?
You’re not asking me, are you?
Actually, Quaker, I was addressing it to our host, who began the whole thing. But if you wanna take a stab at it…
J.
Pass.
If I answered, your response would be, “And how is that any different from when McCain makes a mistake?” And my answer to that would be, “It’s not different.”
So it’s not that I wouldn’t like to engage you in Algonquinesque banter, it’s just that I have to wash my hair.
I WISH I could use that excuse, Quaker. (Sigh.)
It is Oliver who seizes on each and every one of McCain’s verbal gaffes and touts them as “evidence” that he’s too old to be president, but ignores Obama’s just-about-as-frequent stumbles. The two men seem about as verbally adept as George W. Bush, but Obama manages to avoid it when he sticks to prepared statements.
J.
“It is Oliver who seizes on each and every one of McCain’s verbal gaffes and touts them as ‘evidence’ that he’s too old to be president, but ignores Obama’s just-about-as-frequent stumbles.”
Should I even bother asking for evidence on this?
You make a habit of stating ‘gut feelings’ as established fact. And when asked to back it up, I am almost never satisfied with your effort, as it almost never matches the original claim.
For instance, here you compared the verbal gaffes made by two men. The key points here are 1.) you compared them. 2.) There are two of them. Two. To back up this claim you would have to do a breakdown of verbal gaffes made by the two men. A comprehensive breakdown. Given your record int he past, I don’t think you are willing to do that. So you simply make the claim and expect it to be taken as fact. Then you complain about Oliver’s level of evidence, which is nice level of hypocrisy.
A comprehensive breakdown.
That could be interesting. I’d do it, had I the time and resources.
Total amount of public words spoken / total factual errors made, with an unbiased point score assigned for the severity of the factual error
It is important to note that this is not just some verbal gaffe. McCain was asked about Afghanistan and spent most of his time talking about Iraq. Connecting Afghanistan and Iraq is not a simple mistake like getting the name of a concentration camp wrong, it is based on a policy error.
On a side note…
“We need more Arabic translators in Afghanistan, and they’re all busy in Iraq…”
…they do have Arabic translators in Afghanistan. Bin Laden was born in Saudi Arabia. He speaks Arabic. While they also speak Farsi in the region, or Dari as they call it, as well as Pashto, Arabic is important if you want to go after Al Qaeda.
But thanks for proving you are speaking in right-wing talking points and don’t know what you are talking about.
“That could be interesting. I’d do it, had I the time and resources.”
No one has the time and resources to do that, at least not unless they are being paid to do so. That’s why Jay Tea makes these claims, because he knows he will never have to back them up, and if he repeats them enough the lies become part of conventional wisdom.
“McCain isn’t a worse speaker than Obama. Obama just relies on the teleprompter more often.”
Stroke, at 4:38 on July 21, I listed EIGHT big Obama boners, and those were just the ones that came readily to mind. Add in the “Israel is a strong friend of Israel’s” and today’s “World War II was about stopping the Holocaust” — that last one will piss off a LOT of Jews, because they know goddamned well that the Holocaust was way, way down the list of causes of World War II. Hell, most people didn’t know about the sheer magnitude of the Holocaust until the war in Europe was winding down, or over entirely.
Feel free to argue that John McCain is too old. The fact is that Obama is not ready for prime time — and I doubt he ever will be. He’s never had anyone in his life who would call him on his bullshit, and he doesn’t know how to deal with it now when people actually listen to what he says and not only know when he’s talking out of his ass, but are more than willing to hold their noses and point it out.
J.
Jay, until somebody really studies this systematically, isn’t all our evidence here completely anecdotal? Lord knows I could cherry-pick eight things I’ve said (or ‘verbal gaffes’ if you will) in the last two years to prove I’m an idiot. Isn’t it a little rich for conservatives – who have been defending President Bush’s verbal miscues (as I have as well, believe it or not) for the past eight years – to try to open this line of attack?
He’s never had anyone in his life who would call him on his bullshit, and he doesn’t know how to deal with it now when people actually listen to what he says and not only know when he’s talking out of his ass, but are more than willing to hold their noses and point it out.
As this wasn’t preceded by ‘I think’ or ‘In my opinion,’ It seems to me that one would have had to know Sen. Obama personally for many years to categorically make a statement like this one. It sounds an awful lot like one of those ‘conservative media narrative’ things I keep hearing so much about.
I mean, if President Bush’s defenders were consistent they’d be saying ‘Yeah, sometimes we all biff a line here and there. Who among us is perfect? Get over it.’
It is important to note that this is not just some verbal gaffe. McCain was asked about Afghanistan and spent most of his time talking about Iraq. Connecting Afghanistan and Iraq is not a simple mistake like getting the name of a concentration camp wrong, it is based on a policy error.
That, however, is a good point, except that it seems subjective to call it a ‘policy error.’ I would see it as such, but his base very likely does not. More correct to say that it reveals McCain’s stance on the two wars – he sees them as essentially two battles in the same war, while I would see apples and oranges.
Hey, today John McCain forgot what Senate committees he serves on, and claimed to be on one he isn’t! You’re right, the guy IS senile!
Whoops, my bad… it was Obama who said the Senate Banking Committee was “his” committee as he claimed credit for a measure they passed.
Is it possible that Obama is suffering from incredibly premature Alzheimer’s?
J.
“Stroke, at 4:38 on July 21, I listed EIGHT big Obama boners…”
Two points…
1.) I already pointed out one of those was wrong.
2.) You can cherry pick the data all you want. It is still not convincing evidence.
The difference is the frequency at which the two candidates make these errors. With Obama, it seems to happen at a pace typical for a presidential nominee, about once every couple weeks. With McCain, it seems to be happening 2-3 times a week.
Channeling Stroke (Great name Jay Tea. Fits CS perfectly!):
PROVE IT!! I want to see the EVIDENCE!! Prove that McCain has made at LEAST 2 gaffes a week and as many as three. I want to see it broken down and I want evidence that the gaffe in question is really a gaffe. I know you can’t!! Therefore you’re nothing but a LIAR!!
it was Obama who said the Senate Banking Committee was “his” committee as he claimed credit for a measure they passed.
At least he didn’t describe himself as “courageous.”
“While they also speak Farsi in the region, or Dari as they call it, as well as Pashto, Arabic is important if you want to go after Al Qaeda.”
Farsi is Persian and it is the written language of Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Uzbekistan. Dari though is the spoken dialect of Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Uzbekistan. They are different languages and Dari and Farsi speakers cannot communicate with each other without knowing the other language.
“Channeling Stroke (Great name Jay Tea. Fits CS perfectly!):”
And everytime he calls me Stroke when I respond to his posts rationally it proves that he is everything he attacks me for.
So yes, in that way, it is a great name. It shows Jay Tea as he is, not that anyone who was paying attention was fooled before.