Q: But do you go on line for yourself?
Mr. McCain: They go on for me. I am learning to get online myself, and I will have that down fairly soon, getting on myself. I don’t expect to be a great communicator, I don’t expect to set up my own blog, but I am becoming computer literate to the point where I can get the information that I need – including going to my daughter’s blog first, before anything else.
Related
Jonah Goldberg Uses The POW Card For McCain’s Tech Illiteracy
Another John McCain Temper Tantrum
Things Younger Than John McCain
The amount of people who think 72 years old is too old to be president is rather high. Talking like this is proving them right.
Sounds like he’s about three years behind my dad’s level of internet familiarity. But I think it’s really worse, considering that my dad is 83.
Cheese and rice (Jesus Christ). This is not good press for John McCain.
And here’s his computer : http://www.datamancer.net/projects/engine/engine.htm
ROFLMAO!
Mr. McCain: They go on for me.
Who’s they? The servants?
“I don’t expect to be a great communicator, ”
Wow, there’s an understatement.
Could someone please list for me exactly what the qualifications for President should are? Because if I were to base it on the comments and apparent incredulity often expressed here, knowing how to upload a file to Flickr or find a particular clip on YouTube would apparently be essential.
Are computer geek, politic wonks under 40 years old who never, ever misspeak a single word the only candidates we should consider?
Age is not McCain’s biggest problem. He may be 72, but he acts like a defiant 90-year-old. It’s time to take away his keys.
“Could someone please list for me exactly what the qualifications for President should are?”
Being too old to handle the job should prevent one from being president. This much is obvious.
McCain seems to be actively trying to prove he is too old for the job.
Hence threads like this.
Atrios dealt recently with the fatuous assertion, echoed in Sean’s comment, that “knowing how to upload a file to Flickr” is a stupid qualification for president. As far as that goes, I agree. But McCain is asserting much more than that – he clearly has not the slightest clue how MILLIONS of Americans earn their living or interact with information these days, nor how modern banking is transacted, etc. The overall “Internet Economy” has been probably the single biggest growth sector in American employment and wealth in the last decade. It is much more than “Flickr” and “You-tube” and “teh Google”. Yet McCain clearly understands NOTHING about it. And we are trust this man with enacting laws governing how it might work, including issues like Net Neutrality and media consolidation?
Imagine if Barack Obama said “You know, I don’t like cars. I prefer taking the train or other public transportation. I don’t understand the auto industry and don’tr really care to — all these newfangled SUVs and ’sport utilities’ whatever they are; I let me staff tell me what people drive these days…” Would conservatives be OK with that? Would that be a silly nothing pecadillo, or would such a statement yield howls of outrage that Obama “doesn’t understand the American economy, and can’t be trusted to run the country!!”
“Are computer geek, politic wonks under 40 years old who never, ever misspeak a single word the only candidates we should consider?”
I don’t know about you, Sean, but every job I have applied to in at least the last eight years has required basic computer knowledge as a core qualification, from a temp job to my current career position. None of the jobs I’ve ever applied to were directly related to computing or computers but knowing how to use one was essential to the tasks required. Welcome to the 21st century.
Even if the president has assistants to help him “get on” the internet, don’t you think the president of the united states should have some basic understanding of how to use a computer and how much computer use is an integrated part of everyone’s day?
I mean, McCain doesn’t even sound like he has DSL: “They go on for me. I am learning to get online myself …” McCain needs help just opening his browser? How long does it take someone to learn how to click on an icon? I mean it sounds like this candidate for president of the United States is working with a dial up connection, for crissakes.
CSS: Being too old to handle the job should prevent one from being president. This much is obvious.
I’d phrase it as being too addled or some such synonym, rather than too old. Since it’s the mental capacity that is really at issue rather than any particular age. Personally, I have no problem with someone of McCain’s years as President as long as their mind is reasonably sharp and competent, while I’d have significant issues with an idiot in office regardless of age.
So, I get that “age” is used as a shorthand for those things which tend to come with age (e.g., loss of mental acuity, tendency to stick with old ideas), but it isn’t really the age that is the problem. And we do want to talk accurately, don’t we?
[BTW, an example where I would have responded but didn't solely because the posting was yours, CSS, and figured I didn't need the fire that even small small replies to your postings tend to draw. But after the other thread, I changed my mind decided to do so anyway.]
“I’d phrase it as being too addled or some such synonym…
So, I get that “age” is used as a shorthand for those things…”
Agree and agree.
fafaroo: Even if the president has assistants to help him “get on” the internet, don’t you think the president of the united states should have some basic understanding of how to use a computer and how much computer use is an integrated part of everyone’s day?
Yeas to the second part, not too concerned about the first part. How a computer is a greater part of the modern day and how its use has resulted in had an economic and global impact (tech jobs can be done from anywhere, telecommunting increases which has implications for energy policy, a change in the speed with information (for good or ill) is communicated), sure. But if he’s not an actual hands-on user I’m not really concerned.
To do his job well he would need to understand the impact of the computer, not how to operate it. There are LOTS of things I wouldn’t expect the President to know how to operate. Does he need to know how a nuke works to understand the impact of having them?
It seems to me that the president ought to have at least a casual familiarity with internet economics and information technology. There are of course a vast array of career experts beneath him who will be doing much of the grunt work, but the president does have a legislative role (in spite of the Constitutionalists who insist otherwise) and a policy-making role through his executive powers, and ought to know what’s going on, even if he has only a rookie’s knowledge of how.
I guess there is a difference, though, between personal knowledge and understanding how money and ownership of goods move electronically. The question is, is the former a prerequisite for the latter?
**personal knowledge was vague. It was intended to mean ‘knowledge of how to use a pc for oneself.’**
CSS: Agree and agree.
OMG, a pig just flew past my window.
bah cant post pics..
link
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/200...
link
This cannot be real. No, no way. Even for brickhead McCain, this has to be buncombe.
Age bias is a reality in American business and is tolerated. It is not common that we give 72 yr old men CEO jobs and it is not common that we give 72 yr old men jobs period.
Frankly, I’m less concerned about McCain’s computing and internet savvy than I am about Obama suggesting the creation of a large, powerful and well funded paramilitary organization:
“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set,” he said. “We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well funded.”
WTF? I know that many of the people here are all bent out of shape about Obama’s support for the FISA bill. So why doesn’t this trouble you?
Here’s a brief history lesson that Obama might want to consider before proceeding with his plans.
Yet McCain clearly understands NOTHING about it. And we are trust this man with enacting laws governing how it might work, including issues like Net Neutrality and media consolidation?
And how many of the other 534 men and women serving in Congress are any more computer literate than John McCain? They’re the ones writing those laws. They gave us GENIUS legislation like the Digital Millennium Copyright Act.
And how many of the other 534 men and women serving in Congress are any more computer literate than John McCain?
Unless you have numbers suggesting otherwise, I would expect most of them know how to find the on/off switch that eludes McCain, and certainly all under the age of about 45 know how to use a computer, since they would have had a hard time in college if they hadn’t.
Well whether or not they can find the on/off switch doesn’t concern me. What concerns me is whether or not they understand the overall impact of the legislation they’re crafting and what affect it will have on the country.
This is a non-issue.
You know, it really cracks me up to hear the same people who snickered about Al Gore “inventing the Internet,” now claim that it’s not important for our leader to even know what the Internet is.
And so Jay, given McCain’s professed technical incompetence (as opposed to Obama’s excellent policy expertise on this issue, coming as it does with his close affiliation with domain experts like Dr. Lawrence Lessig), we should trust McCain more than Obama to “understand the overall impact of the legislation they’re crafting” more why again?
You know, it really cracks me up to hear the same people who snickered about Al Gore “inventing the Internet,” now claim that it’s not important for our leader to even know what the Internet is.
The snickering was about Gore’s sense of self-importance (i.e. “I invented the internet”). It had nothing to do with his computer or internet prowess.
And yes, I know that Gore claiming to have invented the Internet is an oft-repeated urban legend.
as opposed to Obama’s excellent policy expertise on this issue
What excellent policy expertise would that be?
It really is an issue about whether McCain can relate to the mass of Americans. Most Americans know how to use the Internet, and do so daily. It’s a lifestyle issue, just like knowing how a supermarket scanner works, or knowing how much milk costs. If you don’t know how to use the Internet, you can’t connect (no pun intended) to the daily experiences of a wide swath of the electorate.
Maybe BS in part, but again strikes a blow against McCain’s being like an “ordinary American”. Ordinary Americans know how to use the Internet.
Jay, I assume you can use teh Google better than your boy St. McCain. I’m not doing your work for you if you’re sufficiently uninformed on this subject.
And you answer my question first.
Any politician who attended college in the 1980s knows how to use a computer and can probably manage their e-mail and browse the internet as well. Basically, anybody under 50 should be not only computer-literate, but computer proficient as well. Any politician who attended college in the 1970s and was in their 20s or 30s in the 1980s should also be computer literate, if not computer proficient. Basically, that’s anybody under 60. I don’t expect everyone over 60 to be fully computer literate, but I would expect a lot of folks in their 60s(such as my mom) to be at least partly computer literate, and capable of some basic web navigation, handling e-mail, and so forth. My dad is about McCain’s age, and he isn’t so hot at the computer literacy stuff. But he’s not running for president.
Age bias is a reality in American business and is tolerated. It is not common that we give 72 yr old men CEO jobs and it is not common that we give 72 yr old men jobs period.
Substitute ‘Race’ or ‘Gender’ for ‘Age’ in your first sentence and alternately ‘non-whites’ or ‘women’ for ‘72 yr old men’ in your second sentence and tell me that you still stand by your statement.
Hold on Rheinhard. You’re saying that Obama is an expert on that kind of policy and I call BS on the issue (It’s silly to make me answer your question when you’re just saying Obama is an ‘expert’). I’m not going to argue the case between the both of them as to who is more technically proficient, but knowing how to use an ipod and update a twitter account does not make one an ‘expert’ on the matter of technology policy.
I read Obama’s website about technology and it’s a bunch of the same old stuff I’ve heard from other people. Network neutrality (not necessarily a good thing), diversification of media companies, protecting “the children”, etc. His idea about having a national Chief Technology Officer is good on its face, but I suspect it will just add another layer of bureaucracy to an already bloated one. And the position won’t be of any use unless somebody with the personality of Steve Jobs takes the role.
The bottom line for me is that is ‘fluff’ criticism (like the whole price of milk thing) and doesn’t mean all that much.
It’s 3AM in the White House and a phone is ringing. There is an emergency occurring.
Operator: yes Mr President?
McCain: Help me! I’ve fallen, and I can’t get up!
If only John McCain listened to Jay-Z……….
Do you think John McCain even knows who Jay Z is? Answer now, fascist.
To do his job well he would need to understand the impact of the computer, not how to operate it.
What was that line from some bullshit movie a few months ago?
“They’ve hacked the internet!”
“Which one?”
“All of them!!11!!”
Jay, it’s not my fault that you don’t know who Lawrence Lessig is.
If you can’t be bothered to find out that much (and can toss off “Net Neutrality not necessarily a good thing” without explanation on that point) then I don’t feel the need to respond seriously to you when it’s pretty obvious anything I say will be sloughed off anyway.
Jay, it’s not my fault that you don’t know who Lawrence Lessig is.
I know very well who Lawrence Lessig is. I don’t see how that makes Obama an ‘expert’ on technology policy. It’s like saying hanging around Mariano Rivera makes one an expert on relief pitching.
As for net neutrality, you have to love the irony. Read this piece by none other than Lawrence Lessig to see my POV on the subject.
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/15.01/posts.html?pg=6
“Do you think John McCain even knows who Jay Z is? Answer now, fascist.”
No, but he should, cause then he’d be like totally cool and hip and stuff and could get young pot smokers that go to college on their mommy and daddy’s dime to vote for them because it’s like, you know, trendy and stuff.
Holla now marxist pig.
It’s like saying hanging around Mariano Rivera makes one an expert on relief pitching.
No, it’s like saying the team that includes Mariano Rivera has good relief pitching.
It’s like sayin’ Big Pimpin…
That’s what I want my president listentin’ to.
Holla.
Well, he could have said “pretty soon I’ll be able to get OFF by myself.”
No, it’s like saying the team that includes Mariano Rivera has good relief pitching.
Well then instead of saying “Obama’s excellent policy expertise on this issue, coming as it does with his close affiliation with domain experts like Dr. Lawrence Lessig”, Rheinhard should have said “the Obama team” or “Obama’s campaign” along with “their” close affiliation with Lessig.
But if you did that then you wouldn’t be able to contrast Obama’s supposed tech-savviness with McCain’s lack thereof, since the McCain team may have some capable tech guys working for them as well.
since the McCain team may have some capable tech guys working for them as well.
Not that Mr. McCain would have any way of knowing.
No, it’s like saying the team that includes Mariano Rivera has good relief pitching.
Yes, but that doesn’t make Derek Jeter an expert relief pitcher. Get the point? If Rheinhard wanted to make the impression that Obama has surrounded himself with technology experts then that is what he should have said, not “Obama’s excellent policy expertise on this issue…”
I think we’re once again getting caught up in semantics but that’s neither here nor there. I credit Obama for making technology a focal point in his campaign, but he’s no expert on the issue and as brilliant as Lessig is, it doesn’t mean everything he supports is a good thing.
By the same token, just because McCain is personally compute illiterate, doesn’t mean his administration is going to be looking at reviving the dot matrix printer or telex machines.
Not that Mr. McCain would have any way of knowing.
I thought that Obama’s inexperience was supposed to be irrelevant because he has surrounded himself with competent, whip-smart advisors who are supposed to be the “experts” on various subjects that Obama either knows nothing about or has no experience with. But McCain is supposed to be personally knowledgeable about a minimum level of computer and internet technology? If so, what is the minimum level of military knowledge or foreign policy expertise that you expect Obama to possess? Because regardless of how many retired Generals or former Sec of States he surrounds himself with, he should know some basics, right?
Personally, I would rather our president have knowledge or expertise on those matters rather than computers and web-surfing, since screwups on military and foreign policy issues have the potential to cause far more damage to us all.
And from the same article Oliver linked to:
Wow! He uses the phone to communicate with people. How ancient. That is SO 20th century! Doesn’t he know he could just shut himself up in a room all day and communicate impersonally with the outside world via email?
Apparently, someone used the word “blog” around him and not only did he remember it, he even used it in context.
This is really kind of a dumb post. I’m sure McCain will have people around him that can use “the internets.” And even crazier, I’m sure they could even TEACH him to use the internets. Kinda like how Barack will have advisors around him to help in areas he isn’t strong on.
Non-Issue people, non-issue. And rather petty.
Actually, this is a pretty big deal. By itself, not so much, but it’s part of a further pattern tying into the fact that McCain’s completely out of touch.
I mean, sure — the POTUS has people around him to take care of this stuff. But with the American economy in the crapper right now, along with our currency, it would be nice to have someone in charge who knows what it takes to compete in the global marketplace.
Obama has negatives too, but technology and a sense that he’s in tune with modern economics is not one of them. Grampy John? Yeah, he’s not going to inspire a lot of confidence among business leaders, at least in the tech industry (i.e., the industries that are a hell of a lot more important to out economy today than, say, GM used to be).
Remind me again, what is McCain’s great foreign policy expertise? Oh, he sits on some committees and listens to other people talk? Whoop-de-doo. Considering the man can’t seem to keep Sunni and Shia straight when he talks, I’m nevertheless supposed to have deep and abiding respect for McCain’s long standing expertise in this area despite that fact. But while Obama (a) clearly elicits the familiarity with tech issues that AT MINIMUM an Internet-saavy American would (which Jay derides as “knowing how to upload to Flickr), and (b) has surrounded himself with known experts in the field, we are nevertheless NOT supposed to be the slightest bit impressed by his policies or work in this area.
Standard Republican double standards. Check Check and double-check.
I dimly recall McCain doing rather frequent conference calls with bloggers as well as more traditional media. Seems to me that, when the entirety of his quote is given, and his history of involving new media types, he is rather astute in some things technological.
I still think JM should listen to Jay-z, like B. Hussein Obama, go for the steal of the pot-smoking demographic, and all would be well. Everyone knows, young people who smoke weed and listen to jay-z are the brightest and most informed.
Holla.
I dimly recall McCain doing rather frequent conference calls with bloggers as well as more traditional media. Seems to me that, when the entirety of his quote is given, and his history of involving new media types, he is rather astute in some things technological.
Shhhhhhh! You’re gonna harsh the vibe over here!
Hmm. Obama is pretty good with computers and stuff, as are most educated Americans, since it’s a necessity these days in the workplace (government or otherwise). John McCain, by his own admission, hasn’t taken the time to get up to speed, which is his prerogative since he can afford handlers to take care of that stuff for him.
THIS MUST MEAN OBAMA SUPPORTERS SMOKE DRUGS AND LISTEN TO THE RAP MUSIC AMIRITE?
Seriously dude, if you’re not even going to try just go crawl back under your little rock at LGF.
Remind me again, what is McCain’s great foreign policy expertise?
Point out again, where I stated that McCain had “great foreign policy expertise”?
Standard Democrat lack of reading comprehension… Check.
My point was that basic knowledge about the ‘intarwebs’ is not nearly as important as other, more critical areas such as the military, foreign policy, economics, etc.
Trying to claim that “tech know-how” is incredibly vital to this country is just another excuse to paint McCain as “too out of touch to be president”. C’mon guys, McCain has plenty of other shortcomings you can point to. Using ‘technology’ just makes you look petty.
Jaim…
Stupid pointless posts deserve stupid pointless responses.
Holla.
“just another excuse”
Umm, it’s not an excuse though — McCain has admitted he doesn’t know how to use the intarwebs.
And I agree, this doesn’t sink his campaign, but it isn’t as if Dems like me need to “make up” the fact that he’s A) old and B) kind of out of touch, at least moreso than Obama.
Granted, we’re debating on a weblog, so we probably aren’t his prime demographic anyway. But it does matter to a lot of people beyond me.
Further, I know elderly folks who are completely down with computers and so on. Would it kill McCain just to hire someone to come in and teach him a few things?
it would be nice to have someone in charge who knows what it takes to compete in the global marketplace.
Yes and opposing free trade agreements is a perfect example of that, right?
Of course, Obama says he supports free trade agreements but claims he won’t sign any new agreements unless it includes protections for the environment and protection for American workers. Of course such demands totally go against the whole premise of “free” trade, and essentially render his ’support’ useless. It is however, good political fodder despite the fact that such a position has far more impact on our ability to compete in the global marketplace than network neutrality or media consolidation.
Jay – thanks for being so up-front about the fact that the concept of “free trade” we’ve been sold so far is nothing but a sham designed to undercut American workers unfairly and undermine domestic environmental laws. If that’s what “free trade” means, I certainly don’t want any part of it. Yeah I’m an evil communist, trade is always good on its face no matter what the consequences or side effects (as long as it doesn’t involve bringing more of those wetbacks up here though!) etc etc.
Ah, changing the sujbect. I expect no less from you.
GOOD USE OF TALKING POINTS WOULD READ AGAIN A
I welcome the TV debates between Obama and McCain on the issue of free trade, and the economy in general. McCain is a personal friend of one of the most disliked POTUS’s in history. And gas is close to five bucks per. And our economy stinks. Foreign countries don’t want to bank in US dollars any longer.
But the free trade issue is what’s going to turn it all around for McCain? As he write out his memos in manly long-hand?
LOL.
Jay – thanks for being so up-front about the fact that the concept of “free trade” we’ve been sold so far is nothing but a sham designed to undercut American workers unfairly and undermine domestic environmental laws.
Oh please. All of this talk about “undercutting” American workers and environmental concerns is a convenient excuse, allowing politicians (as I mentioned) to claim ’support’ for an issue but in making such demands, water it down to where it becomes meaningless.
Ah, changing the sujbect. I expect no less from you.
I did no such thing. You mentioned competing in the global marketplace. I commented on that.
It’s odd that somebody claims Obama’s vast knowledge of technology is what is going to allow him to understand about competing in a global marketplace, yet his views on free trade are so ar behind the times, he might as well start talking about protecting farmers from the industrial revolution. And of course, all of the people who saw their jobs eliminated because of technology!!
But the free trade issue is what’s going to turn it all around for McCain?
Who said that?
Everyone knows, young people who smoke weed and listen to jay-z are the brightest and most informed.
More so than you at least.
Yes, Obama’s behind the times, since so many Americans today are pushing for more trade deals to ship their jobs overseas and politicians just aren’t listening to them! And Obama’s against the Iraq war, when clearly so many Americans support it!! How out of touch can you get??
Jay & SoCal are painful to read. TEH STOOPID! IT BURRRNS!!!
They’ve worked clueless, projection, & denial to an art form.
Dave in SoCal: “Point out again, where I stated that McCain had ‘great foreign policy expertise’?”
…
“My point was that basic knowledge about the ‘intarwebs’ is not nearly as important as other, more critical areas such as the military, foreign policy, economics, etc.”
So you are saying it doesn’t matter that McCain is totally clueless to such an important part of daily life of millions of Americans, because he has little to no experience in important areas like military, foreign policy, and economics.
You say he doesn’t have great foreign policy experience, McCain says he doesn’t have experience in economic areas, and graduating fifth worst in your class and getting shot down hardly qualifies as military experience.
… So what does McCain have?
because he has little to no experience in important areas like military, foreign policy, and economics.
Do you earn royalties for saying stupid shit? I mean, you must because I cannot fathom why anybody would say something so stupid unless they were earning a living doing it.
and graduating fifth worst in your class and getting shot down hardly qualifies as military experience.
CHA-CHING!
Me: “because he has little to no experience in important areas like military, foreign policy, and economics.”
Jay: “Do you earn royalties for saying stupid shit? I mean, you must because I cannot fathom why anybody would say something so stupid unless they were earning a living doing it.”
Me: “and graduating fifth worst in your class and getting shot down hardly qualifies as military experience.”
Jay: “CHA-CHING!”
And as everyone can see, you said nothing, FUCKING NOTHING to counter my claim. You merely insulted me.
You’ve complained about me doing the same in the past, even thought you could never back up that claim. That makes you a liar and a hypocrite.
Jay & SoCal are painful to read. TEH STOOPID! IT BURRRNS!!!
If it burns while urinating, you might want to get it checked about by a medical professional. You most likely have an STD.
They’ve worked clueless, projection, & denial to an art form.
And yet, you offer no examples of where I’ve done this or evidence refuting or countering anything I’ve said. I guess when you’re “Reality-based”, that kind of stuff is hard.
So you are saying it doesn’t matter that McCain is totally clueless to such an important part of daily life of millions of Americans, because he has little to no experience in important areas like military, foreign policy, and economics.
I guess reading comprehension is really not your strong suit, CS. I made no claims about McCain’s experience in any of those areas. I just said that those issues were more important that a candidate’s ability to go online and surf the web.
And how exactly does ‘doesn’t email or go online himself’ equate to ‘totally cluless’? Did you personally run some kind of evaluation or aptitude test on him that allows you to draw that conclusion? By that same logic, if you’ve never served in the military than I can say that you’re totally clueless about all things military.
You say he doesn’t have great foreign policy experience, McCain says he doesn’t have experience in economic areas, and graduating fifth worst in your class and getting shot down hardly qualifies as military experience.
No, I didn’t say that. Again, if you want to make accusation about McCain, go for it. Just don’t try to put your crappy, ill-fitting words in my mouth.
But I have to agree with Jay on this: Your statement “getting shot down hardly qualifies as military experience” has got to be one of the stupidest things I’ve read in a long time.
So what does McCain have?
Who said I was defending McCain? I’m just trying to point out that this is a stupid and petty issue to be hammering him about. Are you really getting that low on material? Or is this just the usual partisan “throw a lot of crap on the wall and see what sticks” mentality? But if you feel so strongly about McCain’s lack of experience, maybe as a contrast you could list Obama’s experience in areas other than sending emails and browsing the web.
I’m just trying to point out that this is a stupid and petty issue to be hammering him about.
Maybe, maybe not. Nobody has really determined how well the president ought to know internet economics. He should have at least a working knowledge of how things move, in my opinion.
And as everyone can see, you said nothing, FUCKING NOTHING to counter my claim.
Because your claim is asinine on its face. There is nothing to counter.
You couldn’t find a single person who comments on this blog that would agree with that claim. I can’t imagine anybody stupid enough to agree with you. Let’s just look at part of your claim.
You’re saying (seriously which is just hilarious) that John McCain has “…little to no experience in important areas like military…”
John McCain:
Attended and graduated from the Naval Academy
He flew ground attack aircraft from aircraft carriers
He flew in twenty three bombing campaigns during Vietnam
He was held as a POW for 6 years.
After his release he became the CO of a training squadron in Florida, turning the unit around and won the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation
In 1977, he was the Navy’s liaison to the US Senate
He retired as a captain in 1981 after turning down the prospect of being made a rear admiral
He’s been a member of the Senate Armed Services committee for the better part of the last 20 years
He was the recipient of the Silver Star, Legion of Merit, Distinguished Flying Cross, Bronze Star and Navy Commendation Medal
Now, with a resume like that, (and mocking his class rank – which was due largely to his questioning the higher-ups and nothing to do with performance – and the fact that he was shot down is just childish) how in the world can any person with functioning brain cells actually believe that McCain has “little to no experience” with the military?
And yet he voted to go to war in Iraq, a horrific blunder by objective standards.
McCain obviously has an impressive military record (Obama has been praising him from the beginning on this, showing a lot of class that Republicans were unable to display with regards to Kerry). He also has a pretty weak track record on foreign policy. “Touring” Baghdad with a huge military escort was not his finest moment.
C’mon guys, McCain has plenty of other shortcomings you can point to.
Actually, I agree with this statement.
He retired as a captain in 1981 after turning down the prospect of being made a rear admiral
i thought that meme was largely discredited by now.
“He retired as a captain in 1981 after turning down the prospect of being made a rear admiral”
Yeah… as Duros said, the evidence regarding this claim is simply not strong enough evidence to believe it is true. Forgive me if I doubt your other claims in this area.
Like this one…
“and mocking his class rank – which was due largely to his questioning the higher-ups and nothing to do with performance”
McCain admits he wasn’t the best student. So, who should I believe? You or McCain?
“how in the world can any person with functioning brain cells actually believe that McCain has “little to no experience” with the military?”
He’s running on his military record, yet he has no combat experience while in a leadership role. Being a fighter pilot, even a good fighter pilot, offers almost no experience that would be a major benefit to the commander in chief.
Being a fighter pilot, even a good fighter pilot, offers almost no experience that would be a major benefit to the commander in chief.
Exactly so. My question from the very beginning. The civilian leadership sets the political goals, the military leadership formulates a strategy for achieving those political goals, and the military rank-and-file perform the much more dramatic (unless you’re Aaron Sorkin) but ultimately less mentally taxing role of completing tactics to achieve the strategy.
McCain’s military record, like Kerry’s in ‘04, is two steps removed from experience relevant to a commander-in-chief. Had his role been of leadership (delegation, organization, etc.) it would have been only one step removed, and therefore much more relevant. I have seen no legitimate reason yet not to discount McCain’s military service (as I did Kerry’s in ‘04, and Gore’s in ‘00) as a reason to vote for him.
Yeah… as Duros said, the evidence regarding this claim is simply not strong enough evidence to believe it is true. Forgive me if I doubt your other claims in this area.
How convenient. The claim was made in a NY Times article. The author confirmed the claim with former Navy Secretary John Lehman and two other naval officers. Duros is referring to a hatchet job written Jeffery Klein that was long on innuendo and short on facts. As for the other claims, they’re all true and easy to confirm. Your “forgive me if I doubt your other claims in this area” is another one of your convenient excuses to use as a way of not admitting you’re wrong.
He’s running on his military record, yet he has no combat experience while in a leadership role. Being a fighter pilot, even a good fighter pilot, offers almost no experience that would be a major benefit to the commander in chief.
But that’s not what you said. You said McCain “has little or no experience with the military.”
Now you’re saying he has no combat experience while in a leadership role. That’s two completely different things.
“The claim was made in a NY Times article. The author confirmed the claim with former Navy Secretary John Lehman and two other naval officers.”
And the link is…
“But that’s not what you said. You said McCain ‘has little or no experience with the military.’”
You are correct. I mispoke. I meant to say McCain ‘has little or no applicable experience with the military.’ I don’t think his experience in the military is particularly relevant to him becoming president.