Like I said …
Barack Obama could make major gains in at least nine states the Democratic ticket lost in 2004 if he can achieve a relatively modest increase in turnout among young and African-American voters, a Tribune analysis of voting data suggests.
That potential helps explain why the Obama campaign chose to forgo federal funding and also why it is engaged in a massive voter registration drive. With its unprecedented resources, the campaign can fund an array of specific targeting operations, and Obama exploited early versions of those to great success during the primary campaign.
I’m less confident of the youth vote, but the black vote is going to be there like crazy.
I’m less confident of the youth vote, but the black vote is going to be there like crazy.
On that note, I wonder how you feel about the black youth vote. Will the desire to vote a historic moment trump the typical youth politics malaise in that demographic?
Is it ok to support someone largely because of their race/ethnicity, or is that racist? Just wondering.
Not saying it hasn’t happened before (Kennedy,Catholics) but it just seems wrong for people to do that.
Amazing that certain segments get a pass on being well, not racist, but ethnic/racial loyalists, when other demographics aren’t permitted to.
Not that it would make a difference in this election anyways. Blacks will vote for Obama at a 93% clip instead of a 91% clip as they do normally do for democrats in national elections.
But on the bright side of things, If Obama does get elected, you’ll see a change with many people in this country. It will mark the beginning of the end of the grievance industry from leftist blacks, and the beginning of the end of white guilt complex from self-loathing white liberals, and you’ll see many whites especially telling people to “shove it” when they complain about “institutional injustices.”
There’s a silver lining in everything. I can’t wait! It’s gonna be an interesting few months.
Holla.
you’ll see many whites especially telling people to “shove it” when they complain about “institutional injustices.”
Yeah, that’ll be much different than it is now.
I think the problem you run into is when one race of people champions a pol of their own race as an FU to the other races. Those of us who are black support Obama in part because I would like to see a black president, but not because it’s an FU to white candidates. And I think the number of black voters is going to go up across demographics – young and old. People know how important this is.
I know OW, it’s a pride thing. I get it. Same reason Kelly Pavlik is my favorite boxer. Doesn’t make it right, but it’s just a fact of life. And a fact of politics. Always been that way, always will.
Shorter jmccann: “I’m not a racist, but…”
But on the bright side of things, If Obama does get elected, you’ll see a change with many people in this country. It will mark the beginning of the end of the grievance industry from leftist blacks, and the beginning of the end of white guilt complex from self-loathing white liberals, and you’ll see many whites especially telling people to “shove it” when they complain about “institutional injustices.”
If you think the election of a black politician gives you carte blanch to play the “poor white me, I’m the real oppressed person here” card, then the only race-based “complex” to be addressed involves you looking in a mirror.
Where did you even get a bumper sticker, anyway, that says “Obama ‘08, THAT’LL shut the n_____s up” ? That can’t be official merchandise.
Don’t really care if I get called racist anymore considering the qualifications for racism are now nothing more than not supporting Obama.
Oh well.
August J said…..
“If you think the election of a black politician gives you carte blanch to play the “poor white me, I’m the real oppressed person here” card, then the only race-based “complex” to be addressed involves you looking in a mirror.”
Um…..wtf????? You’re out in left field with that one.
All I meant was that the grievances from people based on race, gender, ect. will fall on many more deaf ears if he’s elected president. Nowhere is there a “poor white me” involved in that.
I’m not sure you correctly comprehended what I posted.
Yeah, the youth vote for John McCain.
They can really relate to an old guy who doesn’t compute and for whom “the future” is the time when he will take his next dump.
Good one. I think John might want to stay away from the kids if he knows what’s good for him.
If they can be roused from their torpor, they will go 80-20 for Obama.
You said that “on the bright side of things,” the election of Obama will be an opportunity for white people to tell blacks to stop complaining.
If you’d like to explain why you think “the grievances from people based on race, gender, ect. will fall on many more deaf ears if he’s elected president” is such a great thing other than your own desire to stop hearing what you called the “grievance industry from leftist blacks,” I’d love to hear it.
All I meant was that the grievances from people based on race, gender, ect. will fall on many more deaf ears if he’s elected president.
Except for the whole “exception proves the rule” thing.
Seriously. One black man gets elected president and suddenly everything should be hunky-dory?
Don’t really care if I get called racist anymore considering the qualifications for racism are now nothing more than not supporting Obama.
That has nothing to do with it. It is the tenor and flavor of your posts thus far.
All I meant was that the grievances from people based on race, gender, ect. will fall on many more deaf ears [when] he’s elected president.
I hope that’s true all around. Care to start first?
Real quick before I go…..
Do you really think that race/gender-based grievances will NOT fall on more deaf ears if he’s elected?
I’m just stating what I think will happen. And if he does get elected, I hope that’s the case. I’m sick enough of race-based politics as it is and have been for years.
And unfortunately for some, Barack Obama in the white house will mark the beginning of the end of white guilt and political correctness dictating policy and debate.
>I think the problem you run into is when one race of people champions a pol of their own race as an FU to the other races.
Hmm, am I missing something? When has this ever been the case? I can’t think of a recent candidate who was championed specifically to piss off a set of people who weren’t of his race. I guess such a thing would be more likely in a smaller scale race than president.
I think what J is asking is if it is racist to refuse to vote for someone because of the color of their skin, isn’t it also racist to vote for someone because of the color of their skin? Sure sounds like picking color of their skin over the content of their character to me.
j mccann: Do you really think that race/gender-based grievances will NOT fall on more deaf ears if he’s elected?
if so, how would that be much different than now? Using yourself as an example, for example. Are your ears not already rather deaf to the grievances of blacks?
To be clear I would support Obama no matter his race, but its playing a fools game to act if his race doesnt matter.
How many people do you think are going to vote for Obama as a FU to white people rather than perhaps as a vote of empowerment for their race or for minorities in general?
I bet more people vote for McCain as a FU to black people though.
“Do you really think that race/gender-based grievances will NOT fall on more deaf ears if he’s elected? ”
Who cares? After Katrina, Jena, Police shootings, etc, we are already at the zenith of whites-giving-a-damn-about-black-grievences, as far as many blacks are concerned.
“Sure sounds like picking color of their skin over the content of their character to me.”
Making this issue about skin vs. character way oversimplifies it. It has been demonstrated ad nauseum that blacks don’t just vote based on skin color/race. Let’s get deeper, shall we? Is McCain and the republican ticket really a better choice for African Americans? Keep in mind, MC/Repubs have over a decade of a track record in two branches of government.
Do people expect black not to vote for McCain just to make whites somehow feel better?
>Making this issue about skin vs. character way oversimplifies it.
I agree, to some extent, but I don’t see how the question changes by noting that race is only one of the reasons some people would vote for Obama. Lets say I were to tell you that one of the reasons I was going to vote for John McCain is because he is white. Wouldn’t that sound kind of racist? If so, then why would it not be similarly racist for someone to vote for Obama in part because he is black?
>Is McCain and the republican ticket really a better choice for African Americans?
Irrelevant. We aren’t talking about the Republicans here, and to my knowledge, black people as a group have tended to vote Democrat for some time now, no matter the skin color of the candidate. What I’m curious about here is that Oliver and others (including several black conservatives, if I recall correctly) have specifically noted that one of the reasons they will vote for Obama is because he is black. Not the only reasons, but one of the reasons.
Lets say I were to tell you that one of the reasons I was going to vote for John McCain is because he is white. Wouldn’t that sound kind of racist? If so, then why would it not be similarly racist for someone to vote for Obama in part because he is black?
That would assume that you’ve never had the chance to vote for a white candidate before, wouldn’t it? Otherwise, you’re voting McCain because he’s not the black guy and yeah, thaht’s racist. (And McCain will get some votes that way.)
There is a difference between voting for a guy because (in part) he’s the first candidate who looks like you and your kin, and voting for a guy because the other guy doesn’t. It may seem like a distinction without a difference, but it’s really not. It’s history.
southern quaker…
“That would assume that you’ve never had the chance to vote for a white candidate before, wouldn’t it? Otherwise, you’re voting McCain because he’s not the black guy and yeah, thaht’s racist. (And McCain will get some votes that way.)
There is a difference between voting for a guy because (in part) he’s the first candidate who looks like you and your kin, and voting for a guy because the other guy doesn’t. It may seem like a distinction without a difference, but it’s really not. It’s history.”
Bottom line. Voting for or against someone because of their appearance is wrong, and in this case, bigoted. Did I expect anything more though…..of course not. When it’s blacks being bigots, it’s just called “pride” or “sticking together.”
Pathetic.
So much for that whole “content of their character” thing.
Lets say I were to tell you that one of the reasons I was going to vote for John McCain is because he is white. Wouldn’t that sound kind of racist?
It would be no different than any other Presidential Election in the history of the US.
j mccann: Voting for or against someone because of their appearance is wrong, and in this case, bigoted.
A reasonable argument on it’s face. But you keep missing the fact that the world didn’t start today and everyone isn’t starting at the same place but choosing to do in different directions. BECAUSE OF HISTORY there is a difference between a black person voting for the first black major party nominee because of their race and a white person voting for yet another white nominee because of theirs.
From Conservapedia:
In his 1964 book, WHY WE CAN’T WAIT, Rev. King wrote:
“Whenever this issue of compensatory or preferential treatment for the Negro is raised, some of our friends recoil in horror. The Negro should be granted equality, they agree, but he should ask for nothing more. On the surface, this appears reasonable, but it is not realistic. For it is obvious that if a man enters the starting line of a race three hundred years after another man, the first would have to perform some incredible feat in order to catch up.”
It would be nice if everyone voted for a candidate based on the content of that candidate’s character. But for the entire history of this country, every President has been a White, male, Christian.
Is that just coincidence? If it’s not, then how do you help others catch up?
Guys like jmccann were perfectly content with white privelege the first 200 or so years of American history. Then concepts like affirmative action came along, and all of a sudden, racism was BAD!
They are shocked, SHOCKED, to find that skin color matters in our enlightened day and age! Isn’t our society supposed to be color-blind? They remind me of Stephen Colbert’s character saying, “I don’t see race”.
Sean martin says….
“A reasonable argument on it’s face. But you keep missing the fact that the world didn’t start today and everyone isn’t starting at the same place but choosing to do in different directions. BECAUSE OF HISTORY there is a difference between a black person voting for the first black major party nominee because of their race and a white person voting for yet another white nominee because of theirs.”
Translation: Because blacks were slaves a hundred and fifty years ago, today they are not to be held to the same standards that those that look like the people that had slaves are.
Wonderful. Thanks for admitting that there’s a double-standard.
If Barack Obama were just the latest in a line of minorities to be major party presidential candidates you might have a leg to stand on for this line of argument. Maybe. But much like how Catholics were proud to have one of their own on the ballot in 1960, the same applies here but its even more groundbreaking. If every presidential candidate to this point hadn’t been a white guy you might have a leg to stand on.
Maybe.
j mccann: Translation: Because blacks were slaves a hundred and fifty years ago, today they are not to be held to the same standards that those that look like the people that had slaves are.
Wonderful. Thanks for admitting that there’s a double-standard.
No, not because of the conditions and policies of 150 years ago. But because of the conditions that exist NOW. One follows directly from the other, but since you steadfastly just refuse to consider anything from a larger historical context lets put history aside for the moment.
So let’s pretend all racial profiling, redlining and similar practices truly, TRULY disappeared in a puff of smoke and everyone was treated strictly on the content of their characters. From here on out everyone rises or falls based soley on their merits and not their skin tone (or religion or …). Everybody ready? OK. Get set, go!
And they’re off.
But there is a large segment of the population that is starting the race from 100 yards back. Why? Who cares? We said we’re ignoring history. But they aren’t at the same starting blocks as everyone else.
j mcann, should something be done about that? To at least get them to the place where they can compete.
This isn’t about having a leg to stand on. I’ve made two observations….
1) many blacks that usually could care less about politics will vote for Obama simply because he’s black.
2) this is bigoted.
I’m not knocking it, it’s not the 1st time it’s happened, I’m just saying it’s not right. Never was. But it’s reality and I accept that.
But if ethnic/racial loyalty is acceptable for one, it’s acceptable for all. Or at least it should be.
1) many blacks that usually could care less about politics will vote for Obama simply because he’s black.
2) this is bigoted.
Goddamn, you are dense.
1) Many whites that usually could care less about politics will vote for McCain simply because he’s not black.
2)This is bigoted.
Happy now?
I’m not knocking it, it’s not the 1st time it’s happened,
O RLY. When was the last time a a black person was the nominee for President?
Please stop talking now. the guys from Stormfront are looking for you, you’re missing the meeting.
I see what you’re saying J Mc. But to me, bigotry implies a sense of hostility to those that are different. I have Black friends who are voting for Obama. They aren’t doing so out of a sense of malice or mistrust towards Whites and not because they would never vote for a White candidate. If that were the case, then, yes, they would be bigoted. But in the present circumstances, no, I don’t think they are.
duros says…
“Many whites that usually could care less about politics will vote for McCain simply because he’s not black.”
When white candidates support another white candidate over a black candidate in a primary at over a 90% clip, come talk to me. Until then, accept the fact that racial loyalty (bigotry) is being committed and even encouraged by blacks.
Oh stop it, already.
Could it possibly be that some black people are going to vote for Barack because he’s black? Sure, in the same way that a lot of women of all races voted for Clinton because she’s a woman.
So what? I think by and large, the majority of Obama’s support from all races is due to his intelligence and his message. Personally, I’d vote for a German Shepard if it could get the job done.
You’re just pissed off because you know McNovocain can’t “git r done” and you don’t wanna vote for the black dude.
“Could it possibly be that some black people are going to vote for Barack because he’s black? Sure, in the same way that a lot of women of all races voted for Clinton because she’s a woman.”
Come on now. 90%. That goes beyond “some.” That’s all out racial loyalty.
Don’t ignore this blatent racism.
j mccann: Come on now. 90%. That goes beyond “some.” That’s all out racial loyalty.
So when 90% of the blacks voted for Gore 8 years ago, they were doing it because he’s a black man?
Come on now. 90%. That goes beyond “some.” That’s all out racial loyalty.
Couldn’t possibly be the message, right?
duros says
“Couldn’t possibly be the message, right?”
No. It couldn’t. Not 92% support in a Dem primary. And did you happen to catch any of the clips from the BET awards show. That goes far beyond his message.
It’s flat out racial loyalty.
If you can’t see that then there is no reason to go any further. Just end it.
Thick as a brick, his head’s as thick as a brick.
j mccann: No. It couldn’t. Not 92% support in a Dem primary.
Why couldn’t it? Can you point to a recent politician who had a similar message that we can compare to to see if Obama is actually getting different results? That is, can you offer any actual proof (other than an awards show) to support what you flat out state to be true? (Oh, god. I’m starting to sound like CSS.)
j mccann: It’s flat out racial loyalty.
Some of it is racial loyalty, sure. No doubt. But all of it? “Flat out” with nothing else allowed to account for a black person’s Obama-preference at all?
Being in favor of one thing is not that same as being opposed to another. Voting for the black guy because you like being able to vote for a black guy is NOT THE SAME as voting for the white guy because you won’t vote for the black guy.
If you can’t see that then, yeah, there is no reason to go any further.
92%. Racial loyalty.
And I’m not voting for McCain because he’s white, I’m voting for him because Obama is the closest thing this country has ever seen to a Marxist running for president.
conversation. over.
mind. closed.
I love how this guy pronounces conversation. over. When he gets tired of repeating himself, he announces “real quick, before I go” and “good night.”
If I hear one more smug white conservative say, “It’s not that he’s black, he’s a MarxistMuslimRadicaletcetc” I think I’ll puke. Can these guys really be so ignorant of history, or are they consciously convinced they’re right? I think the former.
92%. Racial loyalty.
Not 92% support in a Dem primary. And did you happen to catch any of the clips from the BET awards show. That goes far beyond his message.
Any reliable measurement of how much of that 92 percent actually is racial loyalty is of course impossible, because even if the question were polled there is no guarantee of honesty. One might suggest that the poll could include questions regarding specific policy positions or accomplishments, but this too would be flawed – loads of voters (probably the majority of the people with whom I’ve spoken on the subject) know they generally support the Republican or the Democratic platform without having the time or inclination to get into specific nuts-and-bolts stuff.
Even in a primary, where policy positions might be pretty close, loyalty can turn on one or two issues – I spoke with an African-American man at my school, for instance, who said he supported Obama over Clinton because he intended to end the nonsensical policy of not talking to dictators who aren’t our allies, and he opposed the war from the beginning. Believe that if you wish – I did.
About all that can be said with relative certainty is that SOME voters will support Sen. Obama because of his race, but almost certainly those voters would have supported his policy positions over Sen. McCain’s (and possibly Sen. Clinton’s, though I’m not as certain about that one) anyway – since African-Americans, as somebody else already noted, overwhelmingly vote Democratic anyway, as is probably true of any non-black that would tend to support Obama for reasons of race.
To Sean’s earlier point, I would add – thinking it’s a nice change for your country that the guy you support is black is not the same thing as supporting him because he’s black.
I’m voting for him because Obama is the closest thing this country has ever seen to a Marxist running for president.
Well no, he’s certainly not. But do you have some evidence that Sen. Obama exhibits Marxist tendencies in his program, a link to something concrete?
And I’m not voting for McCain because he’s white, I’m voting for him because Obama is the closest thing this country has ever seen to a Marxist running for president.
News Flash: Cold War’s over, bud.